Official: Many Factors Caused Madrid Crash

Engine Failure Not Enough To Bring Jet Down, Aviation Chief Speculates

(CBS/AP)  Spain's civil aviation chief said Friday a combination of factors probably caused this week's fiery plane crash in Madrid, which killed 153 people.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Manuel Bautista said a failure of one of the Spanair MD-82's two engines by itself - if such a failure did in fact occur - should not normally be enough to bring down a modern aircraft because they are designed to fly on just one if necessary.

"A set of causes probably came together to cause the accident," Bautista said.

With an investigation under way with help from the United States and the airplane's manufacturer, he said it was too early to say if human error was involved.

Bautista said he has seen - but would not comment on - video footage from Madrid airport that shows the doomed airliner trying to take off. The newspapers El Pais and ABC said it shows no engine explosion, contrary to some witness accounts.

The plane abandoned one takeoff attempt because of a mechanical problem with what the airline called an air intake temperature gauge near the cockpit. The gauge was essentially turned off and the plane cleared for takeoff. It crashed on takeoff.

Aviation experts have said the gauge problem, usually a relatively minor glitch, was unlikely to have caused the crash, but Bautista would not rule out the possibility that it contributed to the accident.

"A problem with a temperature sensor may not matter at all or it can be very important, depending on what other circumstances accompany it," Bautista told the AP. "We will have to see what other issues were present."

On Thursday, a survivor told of the heaving, hellish final minutes of the MD-82's flight, saying she feared she was going to die.

"The plane was rocking back and forth, until I suspected it was going to fall," Ligia Palomino, a 41-year-old emergency rescue worker who happened to be on board, told Spain's Cadena Ser radio station. "I saw people, smoke, explosions. I think that is what woke me up because I had lost consciousness."

"I thought that if help did not arrive soon I would die," said Palomino, who suffered leg injuries and a broken rib.

The government released a list of the nationalities of 19 foreigners from at least 11 countries who were on the plane. Of the 19, only one survived, a Swedish citizen.

The other 10 countries are: Germany with five citizens among the dead, France with two, and one each from Mauritania, Turkey, Brazil, Indonesia, Bulgaria, Italy, Colombia and Gambia. The nationalities of three other foreign victims had yet to be determined. The list did not name the foreigners.

As the shock of the tragedy began to sink in, Spain began three days of mourning Thursday. Flags in Madrid flew at half-staff and silent vigils were held at noon around the country. The king and queen visited the morgue, consoling relatives of those who died.

[lewiston14]

What does a heat sensor in the front of the plane have to do with an engine in back catching fire. Perhaps controls under the cockpit were on fire telling the engines to do do things they were not ment to do. MD80 engines take their air in from outside the aircraft and the fuel tanks are in the wings

[lewiston14]

The MD82 is a variant of the MD80 series. 22,000 pound thrust engines rather the normal 19,000 pound thrust original. Build for higher temperatures and ground altitudes. You do not just turn off a caution warning sensor you find out why the sensor was telling there is a problem in the first place but it cost less to kill people then to keep the plane on the ground. Maintenance class 101 all 4 hours of school.

[flymama07]

My heart and prayers go to the families and the crews at spanair. I hope that during these times they could find peace.

[foxmulder33]

My condolences to the families of the deceased.

[payasyougo]

"The Associated Press said it was not likely that such a seemingly minor problem could bring down a modern plane."
----
Can you say, out of context?

Seriously,
Wasn''t it an o-ring that brought back the shuttle pilots?

[oldpilot954]

We don''t really have enough information to speculate what caused the crash. A transport-category aircraft should be able to fly on one engine if the engine failure happens at or above the speed commonly known as the "accelerate-go" speed. What caused the failure is anyone''s guess. It could have sucked in a large bird, etc. Regardless, it is a time of great sadness for everyone involved.

[hbevis]

"The Associated Press said it was not likely that such a seemingly minor problem could bring down a modern plane."
----
Can you say, out of context?

Seriously,
Wasn''''t it an o-ring that brought back the shuttle pilots?

Posted by payasyougo at 08:19 PM : Aug 21, 2008

Yes it was an o-ring that brought the shuttle down. But, that o-ring that failed was on one of the solid rocket boosters. That let the flame burn through and caused the whole thing to blow up.

This airplane seems to be something else. There are several things that can cause an engine fire. We will just have to wait and see what the inspectors come up with in the days ahead.

God speed to the survivors and the the relatives of the poor people that died. This will be very hard to deal with for all of the people involved.

[oldpilot954]

By the way arlvabear, no mechanic in his/her right mind will deliberately release an aircraft if he thinks it is unsafe. However, most of us are getting out of the business because of the pressure of trying to guess which of the 1/4 million parts is going to fail, kill someone, and get us sent to jail. The ease of making a mistake in aircraft maintenance is about the same as forgetting a turn signal while driving in city traffic. Should you be charged with murder if you forget a turn signal and cause an accident? Probably "yes" but it would sure be hard to convince a jury to convict you. Thankfully, most mistakes never cause accidents but once in a while they do. To my knowledge, an aircraft mechanic is the only job around where you try to do everything correctly and if you make an honest mistake you are in violation of federal law and subject to both criminal and civil action. You can also be in total compliance with federal law and lose your business due to lawsuit after a pilot does something you have no control over.

[smurfcrusher]

How very sad.

My thoughts are with all those impacted by this tragedy.

[lewiston14]

oldpilot954: MOST take their job serious. They check it once they check it twice and just before they walk away they check it a third time but the is always the pressure from the boss that say sign here or you be cleaning toilets in 15 minutes for ever. The answers will come but the information in the black boxes hold alot of data that needs to be sorted. One pitcure shows an engine fire another does not and there is always what the country, inspectors, or manufactures dont want you to know about. Follow the money.

[bob757200]

Ok, lets stop pointing fingers and bringing out the gallows just yet. Nobody knows what happened to cause this terrible accident so just calm down. You seem to forget that when we fly, we are there too, in the same situation as our passengers. Do you REALLY think that anyone in their right mind would put themselves in a situation that could possibly kill themselves along with their passengers? We know our aircraft inside and out. We know what it can and can not do and when it''s safe and not. When it''s not, I don''t fly until it''s fixed, PERIOD.
It''s sad that an aircraft went down. People seem to forget how many flights happen everyday in the world and how many hundreds of thousands of people reach their destination safely. I am way more likely to die in an auto accident on the way to the airport than my aircraft going down.
May God take care of all that were involved in this accident.

[sistatee-2009]

"What the helll are you doing! This flight was suppose to leave an hour ago!"
"The temp gauge is reading too high."
"Well rip the damnn thing out and get that plane in the air. What do think I pay you for!"
"Okay, sir."

[rational_1]

"What the helll are you doing! This flight was suppose to leave an hour ago!"
"The temp gauge is reading too high."
"Well rip the damnn thing out and get that plane in the air. What do think I pay you for!"
"Okay, sir."
Posted by SistaTee at 12:56 PM : Aug 22, 2008

Good point - I''ve considered exactly that issue when delayed because of mechanical problems. Harassing the staff to get you on a plane unsafe to fly does seem more than a little stupid (and shortsighted!).

[lewiston14]

rational_1: Follow the money. Insurance will pay for the plane and the $10,000 each dead person gets before taxes.

[lewiston14]

Funny story. I was trying to back home from Denver. I got there 11 hours later because I did not want to spent more money on a hotel. Sacked out for many hours here comes the pilot. He asked me did a plane show up? I said yes but they towed it away. He come back a second hour and ask the same question. I said yes but they towed that one out also. Three house later he comes back and ask the same question. I said ye but this time they let the plane back away under its own power. He was ticked. To make a long story short he told me the first two had such major problems they were not allowed to fire the engines. the third the radios were not working. I got a free return trip from him but it only took 11:00 hours to get back home. He was a nice guy

[haoli25]

I would think that the crash was caused by ''lack of height''.

[squidly8]

michaelt302,

ROTFLMAO

[Marie Zarankevich]

lewiston14 -- *...always the pressure from the boss that say sign here or you be cleaning toilets in 15 minutes for ever...* -- That logic applies even more to the pressure to say the *right thing* AFTER something bad has happened. -- The *BOSS* aspect does not go away during investigation. -- Just because they investigate does not mean we will ever hear the actual truth.

[susanhelit]

We''ll see what happened. Sometimes, people do everything right, and something still fails. If you read, watch, shows about airline crash investigations, what ends up having happened, sometimes it''s amazingly subtle. A slightly larger gauge wire used to secure a cable that results in rubbing when the wing is in a particular position on a hose that kinks in an unusual way and results in a loss of pressure that causes.... so many weird things can go wrong. A crack in a piece of metal that is impossible to view and is expected simply to never crack. You just never know. Might be negligence, might be human error, might be something so subtle that no one should have caught it.

[lewiston14]

marizara: you are correct. 153 soles died and im sure the bosses are all sitting around a big table woundering what to say. The NTSB has a good track record of putting the parts in place but in another country their input can be ignored. We will know what they want us to know nothing more

[lewiston14]

The MD80 scares the heck out of me a very long aluminum cylinder with two engines hanging off the back. With engines in the rear the pilots have even more to worry about the balance. I have been on a few and never felt safe. Thank god my flying days are over. I do not go far these days but im not going splat in some field. Give me the 737 anyday

[lewiston14]

Ill share something with you. My very first was a 707 I was sitting over the wing and saw it flex but I guess it was meant to do that. Then came the MD11 that was a smooth flight not much to see except the flaps then the 747-400 you did not even know you were moving. That is a great plane. Now you have that airbus 780? Made out of plastic. I will take aluminum any day. Plastic does not last long in sunny dry places and I don%u2019t want to be one of 800 trying to get out. Trust me a plastic plane with some fancy glue will come apart at some point while you%u2019re in your personal 19,000 ticket private suite. Take offs are optional landings are required.