Barack Among The Evangelicals

National Review: Obama Was Swimming Upstream In His Visit To Saddleback

(National Review Online)  This column was written by By Byron York.

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A few minutes before the McCain-Obama joint appearance began at Pastor Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church on Saturday evening, I struck up a conversation with a couple from Lake Arrowhead, California, about 80 miles from here. When I asked who they supported for president, the woman told me, “McCain, if he’ll choose a pro-life running mate.”

“That’s very important to you?” I asked.

“Very,” she said.

“Would you support Obama under any circumstances?”

“Absolutely not,” she answered. “I will not vote for a Muslim.”

She paused for a moment and repeated: “He’s a Muslim.”

I realized I had found part of that 12 percent of Americans who confuse Obama’s ties to Islam - unprecedented for an American presidential candidate - with his actually being a Muslim. I decided to move on to another topic - the new agenda for evangelicals. Did they think issues like AIDS and poverty are as important to evangelicals as abortion and gay marriage?”

“Well, we’re going to Kenya next month,” the man told me. It turned out they are paying their own way to travel to Africa, where he will do volunteer work providing clean water and she will work on AIDS education. The man asked for my notebook, on which he wrote down a web address, waterforkenya.org, and asked me to take a look at their work. They’re truly doing good things, he said.

On further reflection, it seemed I had stumbled across a two-person focus group for some of the more interesting strains of religious conservatism as the 2008 election approaches. And it was all set against the backdrop of Saddleback World. Like the evangelicalism here, it’s new; more than anything, the 120-acre campus resembles a sprawling suburban outdoor mall. Just think of the Worship Center, the anchor of it all, as standing where Saks or Macy’s would be; the Saddleback Beach Café in place of the Macaroni Grill; the AIDS Exhibit where one would normally find Barnes & Noble. Surrounding it all are acres and acres of parking space, and then desert scrub. The weather, of course, is gorgeous.

This is not exactly Barack Obama Country. It’s Orange County, and these are Orange County evangelicals. Nationwide, a Pew Poll last week showed John McCain increasing in strength among white evangelical voters, leading Obama 68 percent to 24 percent. That’s up from June, when McCain led 61 percent to 25 percent. Inside the Saddleback Worship Center, it’s probably more lopsided than that. Certainly among the Saddleback parishioners; in a conversation a few years ago, Warren guessed that just 15 percent of his churchgoers voted for John Kerry in 2004.

After the McCain-Obama forum, the conventional wisdom was that Obama had done himself some good just by showing up. But it’s hard to imagine he’ll benefit much from his stumble on the still-key issue of abortion; when asked when human beings begin to have rights, he said the answer was “above my pay grade.” After the session, Obama’s representatives tried to emphasize not his position on the issue but his openness in dealing with people who disagree with him. “It’s always going to be the case that there is a wide range of opinions on that difficult issue,” Joshua Dubois, the national director of religious affairs for the Obama campaign, told me. “And that’s why it was important that Sen. Obama didn’t come up with an easy answer.”

Well, that’s one way to look at it. As we spoke, Dubois stressed the other issues the Obama campaign believes are important to evangelicals. “[Obama] is able to speak very clearly and authentically about his personal Christian story,” Dubois told me. “I think a lot of evangelicals are concerned with climate change, they’re concerned with genocide in Darfur, they’re concerned with our troops in Iraq and what we’re going to do about our energy crisis.”

It wasn’t hard to hear a certain amount of hope in those words. And in the words of Shaun Casey, too. The evangelical coordinator for the Obama campaign, Casey explained Obama’s appeal in terms of generational change. Looking around the Worship Center during the forum, Casey told me, “My hunch was the older demographic was for McCain and the younger demographic was far more excited for Obama, which tracks with my experience in the last five weeks traveling around the country talking to evangelicals. The younger you get in that demographic, the more receptivity there is for Obama.”

Whatever the case, from Obama’s perspective, there was a lot of hope in the room. Hope, but probably not a lot of votes.

The morning after the candidates’ forum, I went back to Saddleback for Pastor Rick’s 9 A.M. service. It was an unusual production; this particular service was being taped for distribution on DVD. But it showed the kind of performance Warren can put on. There was a seven-piece band on stage right, playing high-volume Christian rock. On the Jumbotrons, the whole production looked a bit like The Tonight Show, with the camera cutting quickly from the musicians to the crowd. And then Pastor Rick walked on stage, in jeans and a rumpled blue shirt, tail out.

It was a characteristically casual entrance, but the reason this service was being taped was that Warren was to deliver his “Message to the Nation.” His message was about leadership, and the country’s need for good leaders. The most important qualities for a leader, Warren said, are integrity, humility, and generosity - the “three-legged stool, the foundation of true leadership.” Warren played it straight down the middle; he didn’t say anything that one could interpret as favoring McCain or Obama.

But there’s no doubt Warren is solidly conservative on the traditional social issues. Back in May 2005, I attended a meeting with him and about 20 journalists in Key West, Florida, organized by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. Warren was asked several questions about abortion and gay marriage. He kept trying to tell everyone that, while important, those weren’t the only issues on his list. But he also made it clear where he stands. “Of course, if I believe every child is born for a purpose…then obviously I would believe that abortion short-circuits a person’s purpose,” he said. On marriage, he said, “I don’t accept gay marriage. I don’t think that a gay relationship is exactly what God wants in life…[But] in the hierarchy of evil, I would say homosexuality is not the worst sin. But I would also say homosexuality is not natural. I think that there are certain parts of a body that are made to fit together.” When it came to politics, Warren made some seriously Republican-sounding statements, like, “What I worry about is the tyranny of activist judges…I do not believe in judges who go out and find all kinds of excuses to thwart the will of the majority.”

So far, Warren is staying away from expressing any public preference for one candidate or the other. Both “Barack” and “John” are friends, he says. But Warren, and everyone else in the room, knew that Obama, for all the hype, was swimming upstream in his visit to Saddleback. There may be a lot of stories about evangelicals flocking to support him, but so far, he’s not truly at home in Saddleback.

[ars7777777]

Why is CBS news not calling for an apology to CBN news from Barack Obama for his accuzations calling them a liar about his actions on the born alive bill. His spokesperson has said that he was incorrect, but there has been no apology. You have irresponsibly run this all weekend as fact for Obama but now that it is clear that he was the doing the lying you do nothing to show the American public his true bent. Why is it you are so biased that anything goes for Obama and your willing to overlook anything he says and does that is grossly wrong. Is it that you are ultra liberal as he is that even if he wanted to do things that would harm you and your family that you would just turn your head again.

[wogerwabbit]

I realized I had found part of that 12 percent of Americans who confuse Obama%u2019s ties to Islam - unprecedented for an American presidential candidate - with his actually being a Muslim.

I wonder why that is? Could it be because neocons are afraid of the truth and lie and lie and lie until the little lie becomes the big truth in small minds. They offer nothing but fear that''s bought into by cowards.

[jmurrieta1]

"Obama Was Swimming Upstream In His Visit To Saddleback "

In the usual stream of you-know-what that just pours out of evangelicals, end-timers, holy rollers, and their sky-pilots.

[noloyalisti]

Has the NRO (National Republican Order) said why this a bad thing? Or are they happy with these Christian fascists running the government and military for their Crusade?

[old300d]

Obama spent 20 years helping promote Black Liberation Theology.

I would guess most Evangelicals know less about Black Liberation Theology than they do about Islam.

What is wrong with a Muslim being president anyway ?

[ubrew12]

Article: "This is not exactly Barack Obama Country. It%u2019s Orange County, and these are Orange County evangelicals."
Orange County makes most of its money from defense contracts (real-estate is important too, but thats not a ''real'' industry). Defense contractors are basically socialism at work: they don''t compete (not in any real sense) for consumer dollars, since their ''consumer'' is ''wink-wink'' the US DOD. Its a fake-capitalism that allows Orange Country conservatives to think they made their money in the ''free market'' rather than by sucking on the governments teets all these many decades. But thats precisely what they''ve been doing, taking tax dollars from the rest of us and saying it was needed for the nations ''defense''. That''s why I call defense spending ''welfare for cold-warriors''. These guys will always see ''terrorists and communists'' under every bed: the more they ''see'' the more money they can hoodwink out of the rest of us.

[samthetvcat]

Eeew, my gut was just telling me something was fishy about Rick Warren from seeing him in interviews and that he wasn''t exactly as he appeared.

And then you feel guilty about doubting him because he''s a pastor, he''s a successful author who many of my extended family members'' ADORE due to his book, and he''s never saying anything bad about anybody.

But I think it was grossly unethical for him to tell the audience that McCain was in the cone of silence when he was not in the cone. That''s something somebody who values honesty would never overlook. And somebody who values honesty would have warned Magoo in advance that if he was late the public would be informed and instructed to assume he had had access to the questions beforehand.

Warren also gave both of them the first two questions in advance - I think that''s deceptive. Didn''t like that . . .

[irliberal]

%u201CWould you support Obama under any circumstances?%u201D

%u201CAbsolutely not,%u201D she answered. %u201CI will not vote for a Muslim.%u201D

She paused for a moment and repeated: %u201CHe%u2019s a Muslim.%u201D

See, now this "woman" isn''t even an American at all. She doesn''t believe in democracy. She just believes in her particular flavor of religion that has all her preconceived bigotries nicely built into it. It''s people like this, and there are a lot of them, that gave us two terms of GW Bush.

Religion poisons everything.

[ajmarine111]

What is wrong with a Muslim being president anyway ?


Posted by old300d at 03:26 PM : Aug 18, 2008


People are afraid that if one gets to be President, part of his inauguration speech would be to tell all the "infidels" that their days are numbered.


I don''t think that, but, others do.

[element51]

IRLiberal....Yes.

[noloyalisti]

If you knew that McSame voted against the troops, wants endless war, flip-flops on issues the same day, supports torture, rich people over poor, corporate lobbyists and McGeorge McBush, would you still vote for him?

[element51]

IRLiberal....Six out of the last seven people I have talked to about the election have said that all they knew about Obama was that he was a Muslim. Can you believe that? When I asked would they consider voting for Obama they said no, that muslims were our enemy. This is the sad state of voters in America. I explained to each of them that Obama was a Christian and I don''t know if I penetrated their thick heads or not. This proves Gobbels "big lie" theory. It works and Karl Rove has used it like a fine instrument. I just wonder how many people will go to the polls thinking this is true. Really sad, isn''t it?

[kazoodan]

I realized I had found part of that 12 percent of Americans who confuse Obama%u2019s ties to Islam - unprecedented for an American presidential candidate - with his actually being a Muslim. I decided to move on to another topic - the new agenda for evangelicals.

Yeah, right. They were ''confused''. They weren''t confused, they bought the lies that were fed to them from Rush Mushmouth and his ilk. I notice you didn''t write about correcting their ''confusion''.

[veteran188]

I am sorry York, but you must be some kind of a fool,

what you met were the 12 % of americans that still support GW Bush, and that do not care what Obama is or say or does, they will never vote for a democrat anyway.

Because McCain is just one more version of McBush they will now vote for him, and in truth it does not matter what McCain does or say, they will vote for him anyway.

these people are anti american.

by the way they are going to Africa to teach the
"heathens" abstinence, as birtjh control and nothing more,

JUST SAY NO, to republicons, mindless lemming republicons

[veteran188]

right on ubrew 12,

conservatives are actually on government welfare, the subsidy

[bellona2]

The human fetus has the same natural "right" to life as any other embryo, just like a bird or a snake in its egg. Obama means that it''s not the president''s job to say when a fetus acquires the more-than-natural right to be nurtured and protected. McCain thinks this supernatural right is from God and should be confirmed by the Constitution. Obama believes this God-given right comes through the mother''s conscientious choice. The Constitution should not be invoked to bar the choice that God in his wisdom has bestowed on mothers.

[veteran188]

pray that these "christians" become human beings one day

[veteran188]

McCain is just one more conservative lIAR , he , like McBush,
will say or do anything Karl Rove and Jack Abramoff tells him to do, to get elected,

he has even used the sick twisted unamerican "swift

boat veterans for LIES" to help him,

McCain is PATHETIC

[renojmc]

Obama among evangelicals? Talk about your fish out of water. He supports so much evil that his horns were practically showing Saturday night.

Thank God McCain will win in November!

[kazoodan]

Posted by fervan at 07:09 PM : Aug 18, 2008

By ''without hesitation'' do you mean like when he answered before they were finished being asked? Or when he asked to go back to the supreme court which had NOT YET BEEN BROUGHT UP?

[rck116]

The Obama supporters on this site and at CBS news are trying to gloss over the fact that their preferred candidate, Obama, fell on his political face in that forum with Rick Warren. His "above my pay grade" answer was inept, cowardly and weaselly. In short, the great Obama sounded just like a standard politician when confronted with a question that he''d rather not answer. Everyday the mediocrity and hubris of Obama shines through more and more and pierces the gloss of the over-hyped media coverage that organizations like CBS news and others have been giving him from day one in this race. Obama: it''s like putting the paperboy in charge of the paper.

[sparks224]

All the states where McCain is leading should be allowed to secede from the union.
They could call themselves the RSA (Re.tarded States of America).

[mitch5511]

I personally think any and all religion should be kept private and out of the public venue.

I do believe we are entering on VERY dangerous ground by allowing ANY religious forum into the election process. What if a secularist had decided to run and was better qualified than both candidates combined? Would you base your decision solely on his non-religious background?

The whole Rick Warren forum is wrong and should have NEVER, EVER been allowed! And, neither candidate should have participated.

[jmurrieta1]

On the first day, the Lord created Rick Warren, and he saw that it was good, because the Sun and the Moon rose and set in Rick Warren''s a$$.

And the Lord said "let him be white". And he was white. And the Lord saw that it was good. And the Lord said "let him be plump". And he was plump from all the easy pickins'' of his flock, that kept him eating real well. And it was good. And the Lord said "let him be mouthy". And lo! Warren could not shut up.

Then the Lord arranged for Rick Warren to have a temple that was greater than any temple in the history of the world, as it was in Orange County, California, the home of many white, plump, and mouthy people. And the temple had a gift shop, a restaurant, a theme park, a TV show, and even a sanctuary to the Lord''s honor. And in that sanctuary all give thanks to the greatness of Warren.

And it was good for the Republicans, as St. Warren could bring many greeback dollars to the coffers of the white, plump, and mouthy Republicans.

[ofbyfor1]

All the states where McCain is leading should be allowed to secede from the union.
They could call themselves the RSA (Re.tarded States of America).

Posted by sparks224 at 12:46 AM : Aug 19, 2008

Actually, I saw a cartoon from the last Bush election that labeled them ''Dumbfvckistan''.

[afmca]

My God these pretend christians at Saddleback are complete ignorant, hyprocritical idiots. Do they have to have total lobotomies to join the church? It makes me beleive that some people are just too stupid to vote. Would this so-called chrsitian assumed another candidate was Muslim if he were not black? This shows that the core evangelical constituency are made up of white bigots and racists .. they just try to market their KKK leanings better.

If I was Obama I would have gone in there and let them all know what hypocritical heretics they all are and none will be judged well when they try to enter heaven. God has a special place in hades for these bigots who prosper while desecrating his teachings. The Prophets for Profit are just criminal fronts for the GOP.

[broadwayphi]

Christianity, when I was growing up, meant such silly ideas as loving your neighbor as yourself, and then loving your God. Now it means voting Republican, hating gay people and debunking the overwhelming scientific evidence of evolution.

Posted by fsw3 at 09:38 AM :


To whom? You?

Certainly not to me.

Or Martin Luther King. Or Barack Obama.

[andylance1]

If Christians are complete ignorant, hypocritical idiots, why did Obama go there? He went there because the last several elections have been very close, and he wanted to convince them he wasn''t the devil.

The jury is still out trying to decide, and posts attacking Christians are sure to help them decide that maybe he is.

[sleepyric]

The woman''s comment about O being a muslim just shows how utterly ignorant some of our citizens are. Maybe these type of people ought to read or watch the news a little bit more and wake up to the world around them. They were duped before by a devil who simply declared that he was "born again", but has no problem sending people to their graves with war and bombing of civilians..Religious right are pure suckers.

I notice you say Barack is not Muslim. I freely admit to having very strong doubts about that. I also admit I have not read his books but am told by those who have that he strongly indicates ties to his Muslim
family. And in one of the books, I think it is "Dreams of My Father" he says that if it came to having to make a choice, he would stand with the Muslims. That being the case, I -for one- do not want him as President.
McCain has at least proven to be a loyal American. For the record I do not agree with all he does either but THIS IS MY/OUR COUNTRY. It does not belong to Muslims,Mexicans,Chinese,Japanese,Germany or any one of the many other coutries.

[blitzder]

Obama: it''''s like putting the paperboy in charge of the paper.-----------
Posted by RCK116 at 09:15 PM : Aug 18, 2008
==================

CLARENCE THOMAS has zero intelligence yet he was appointed to the highest court of the land. What about Bush nominating HARIET MYERS for that court as well.

Republicans are too dumb to back a guy who claims to be a hero in a war of many ages ago. Someone with a futuristic vision should be preferable, not a dinosaur of a historical figure. OBAMA must go back to the future.

According to Newt Gingrich the arch conservative and mentor of rabid rascists like you, REPUBLICANS DON''T THINK (mostly can''t think), and like the proverbial PIED PIPER, follow the neo-con manipulators over the brink into wars and bloodshed. Imagine justifying the killings of young barely out of teens young Americans as being patriotic. DUMB.DUMB and DUMB.

[veteran188]

not all conservatives are necessarily ignorant,

but most ignorant people are conservative!

[veteran188]

Whats wrong with the America of today,

simple answer - the christians are whats wrong with america,

let''s all pray that the christians become human beings some day.

If Jesus were to return today there is one thing that
he definately would NOT be, and that is a christian!