Obama, McCain And The Evangelical Divide

CBSNews.com Reports: As Candidates Sit Down With "New Evangelical" Rick Warren, Some Urge Renewed Focus On Abortion, Marriage

(CBS)  This story was written by CBSNews.com political reporter Brian Montopoli.

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Tomorrow's "civil forum" at California's Saddleback Church won't just be the first joint appearance of the 2008 campaign for Barack Obama and John McCain.

It will also be a key moment in the evangelical community's effort to define itself - and its role in politics - in the post George W. Bush era.

The founding pastor of the 23,000-member Saddleback Church is "Purpose-Driven Life" author Rick Warren. Perhaps the most prominent so-called "new evangelical" in the country, Warren focuses more on issues like AIDS, poverty, human rights and the environment than on social issues, chief among them abortion and gay marriage, that have been the focus of traditional evangelicals in recent years.

And the fact that Obama and McCain have chosen to reach out to evangelicals via Warren - who speaks of uniting ideological opposites and has declined to back either candidate - has not gone unnoticed. After all, it was just four years ago that Mr. Bush won reelection in part by driving up turnout amongst evangelicals who seemed to be galvanized by his rhetoric on social issues.

"Warren is the guy now," said Steven Waldman, editor-in-chief of Beliefnet.com. "He's the leading evangelical figure. He's trying to craft a new direction, a new image for evangelicals. The fact that this is happening at Saddleback, not Focus on the Family, makes it more neutral ground. It's an audience that both Obama and McCain have a real shot at getting."

Hours before Obama and McCain take the stage at Saddleback, however, a very different evangelical gathering will be taking place at the National Mall. There, according to Lou Engle, founder of TheCall, thousands of evangelicals will gather for "cross-denominational solemn assembly" to pray and push evangelicals to keep marriage and abortion front and center in their minds.

Engle says his effort, which has the support of former Arkansas Governor and presidential candidate Mike Huckabee, Family Research Council President Tony Perkins and other prominent religious figures, was not designed to counter Warren's forum. (He says it was planned long before Warren's event was announced.) But he adds that new evangelicals like Warren tend to "take up the causes that are politically correct, and don't want to take up issues that are controversial."

"We're not at war with Rick Warren," Engle said. "We thank God for his emphasis. But it's interesting that [the candidates are] going to a voice that has been somewhat silent on the great foundational issues of abortion and marriage, even though he would stand for those."

Engle said he is concerned about the future of the evangelical movement, since "there aren't clear voices delineating truth." He insisted that marriage and abortion have to remain at the center of the movement, or "we are in danger of losing this whole country to the secularism of Europe."

Huckabee, who calls Warren a "close personal friend" and compares him to Billy Graham, said he signed onto Engle's effort because it represents an effort to "call upon believers" to affirm a pro-life position, which he calls a "non-partisan issue."

"I don't see any conflict at all, and if there was I wouldn't be a part of it," Huckabee said. "I'm focused on the same thing Rick Warren is focused on. I think evangelicals must be talking about disease and poverty."

Perkins of the Family Research Council, a traditional evangelical, said he expects Warren not to ignore the issues that Engle is spotlighting.

"I believe that Pastor Rick is going to ask a wide range of questions, and I believe he will ask questions about issues of life, efforts to redefine marriage, the importance of family, and other issues that are of concern to traditional evangelicals," said Perkins.

"I don't know how hard he will press - it's sort of a new role for him," Perkins added.

On CBS’ The Early Show this morning, Warren said he would ask the candidates about “questions of political stewardship,” “leadership questions,” “worldview issues,” and America's role overseas. It was in the “worldview issues” portion of the forum, he said, where candidates would be asked the “minefield” questions where “no matter what you answer, somebody’s going to disagree with you.”

“It’s going to be a pretty well-rounded conversation,” Warren said. He argued that “there are a lot of Americans who feel disaffected by both the left and the right” and who agree with some issues on both sides of the traditional political divide.

In 2004, Warren flirted with "using his influence to become the next Jerry Falwell or James Dobson," as Time put it, informally backing Mr. Bush and emphasizing issues like abortion and stem-cell research in an email to several thousand pastors.

He says he shifted to a focus on issues like poverty after hearing a message from God. Because of Warren's outsize influence, that shift could have crucial implications for the presidential race.

"The fight all comes down to abortion and gays," Waldman said. "If you don't just focus on those two issues, if you say there are a variety of issues that ought to be of concern to evangelicals, you can plausibly see evangelicals saying Obama is better on the first three, McCain is better on the last two."

According to Waldman, about 40 percent of evangelicals now describe themselves as moderate or liberal. Some estimates put the U.S. evangelical population close to 100 million.

"McCain and the Republicans need to have evangelicals vote mostly on social issues," he said. "If they do that, they'll vote McCain. Obama is a very strong candidate to appeal to moderate evangelicals. He talks about his faith in a compelling way and appeals to them on poverty, the environment, and the desire for change."

A recent poll showed Obama leading McCain among Christians, including born-again Christians. McCain's lead among self-identified evangelicals was just two percentage points. (In a recent CBS News poll, McCain's lead among white evangelicals was much higher -- 24 points.)

Most evangelicals remain strongly pro-life, and they don't like what they're hearing from the pro-choice presumptive Democratic nominee. (Gay marriage, by contrast, has faded as a key issue for young evangelicals.) Recently, conservatives have begun to focus on Obama's opposition as a state senator to the Born-Alive Infant Protection Act, designed to require care for infants who survive a rare type of abortion.

Obama said he would have supported similar federal legislation, which was approved, had he been in Congress at the time. His campaign this week sent an email to reporters saying that Obama opposed the state legislation because it included language that could have been used to challenge Roe v. Wade.

Though McCain has never been a favorite of social conservatives, he has long been staunchly pro-life, and would benefit if evangelicals focus more on abortion than some of the other issues Warren will likely spotlight tomorrow.

Engle has declined to endorse a candidate and says he has his reservations about McCain. But he saves his harshest rhetoric for Obama, whose beliefs, he said, "counter my convictions and the convictions of masses of believing Americans."

"I think the church is in danger of a deception of being courted by Senator Obama," he said. "And they don't really know the truth."

[pollroller1]

I think the candidates should concentrate on the important stuff like abortion and gay marriage, and not worry about the unimportant things like the war and energy and the economy. LOL

[gop_forever]

As a member of the christian race, I do not see why Osama is going to be there. A good christian would never vote for e muslim. I mean if a person cant worship the correct God, what kind of other mistakes will he make?

[lochllan]

It is repulsive that people use the expression "pro life" to describe a pro punishment agenda against abortion when they favor the death penalty and war.

Many of these people are simply deceitful exploiters of others.

Too bad.

Posted by CBS_Oliver at 08:40 AM : Aug 15, 2008

So I wonder where all of the other little Satans are this morning? Too afraid to belch out their perverted opinions like CBS_Oliver here?

Hey CBS_Oliver, why do you consider having a baby as punishment?

[williamfold]

GOP_forever,

you''re an idiot, not a christian.

[pollroller1]

if a person cant worship the correct God, what kind of other mistakes will he make?

Posted by GOP_forever at 08:48 AM Now that''s funny.

[hungry1968]

...and no one favors war.


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Posted by maxify55 at 08:49 AM : Aug 15, 2008





....except the very religious.

[hungry1968]

Hey CBS_Oliver, why do you consider having a baby as punishment?


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Posted by lochllan at 08:54 AM : Aug 15, 2008




It is if a woman wants to have an abortion and isn''t allowed to. She''s being punished for the intollerant religious views of others.

[cfin5]

For those here that know me, I want you to know that I have nothing to do with Mr. Warren. Looks like his business has been doing well,.....gotten pretty hefty lately. Getting ready for the slaughter Rick?

[aboz3]

GOP_forever:

Your ignorance is only exceeded by your bigotry. Christianity is not a race it is a religion. Black/Negroid is a race. What you are saying is don''t vote for Obama because he is black. Your linking him to Islam demonstrates just how stupid you are!

[lochllan]

WE live now in the 21st century in a country founded on the idea that people can think for themselves and take responsibility for their actions. We the people, through the antiquainted electoral college system, are about to elect our president. This leader, should it be McCain or Obama are trying attain this high office of great responsibility by appealing to non-thinking people, the superstitious, the ignorant adherants to mideval theology. This is terrible!

Posted by fsw3 at 08:52 AM : Aug 15, 2008

*yawn*....where to even start on this.

Yes, the founding fathers of the USA believed in God. So in one sentence, you say that this country was founded by free thinkers, but in another you refer to people who believe in God as "non-thinking people, the superstitious, the ignorant adherants to mideval theology." Care to clarify this?

*another yawn*...You called the Electoral College system antiquated with no explanation. Again, the founding fathers saw this as an easy way of electing the President and Vice President of the US. If you haven''t noticed in the US, the Republicans and Democrats have hijacked many things since they''ve been in power, including a misused 25th Amendment to the Constitution. Care to share how you might improve this "antiquated" system? How do you think the US would be different if the VPOTUS was still an elected office instead of an appointed one?

[grumpas]

Your bigotry is hilarious. People of faith are not "non-thinking people" - in fact, it takes lots of thought and understanding to decide to follow God. It''''s a huge decision, and a great deal of thought goes into it.

Posted by mike071067

If they aren''t ''non-thinking'' why did they vote a man into office strictly on his Christian belief''s??????? And a lot of them did. Knowing full well he wasn''t qualified to do the job. He is inept beyond belief. All he had going for him was his bigotry and Christianity!

[mrmazerati]

I would say one of Rick Warren''s purposes in his purpose-driven life should be to purposely push away from the dinner table. Why are all these bible thumpers so fat?

[ejcspau]

What happened to separation of Church and State? We can''t say prayers in school, but self-proclaimed "God-on-Earth" church pastors are telling our Presidential candidates how to run the country! Only God can help us now!

[lochllan]

If they aren''''t ''''non-thinking'''' why did they vote a man into office strictly on his Christian belief''''s??????? And a lot of them did. Knowing full well he wasn''''t qualified to do the job. He is inept beyond belief. All he had going for him was his bigotry and Christianity!

Posted by grumpas at 09:07 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Actually, most of them, myself not included, voted against Al Gore and John Kerry...not FOR George Bush and his beliefs.

I, on the other hand, voted against all three in both elections because I believe the Dems and Pubs are absolutely set on ruining this country.

[ejcspau]

would say one of Rick Warren''''s purposes in his purpose-driven life should be to purposely push away from the dinner table. Why are all these bible thumpers so fat?


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Posted by mrmazerati at 09:07 AM : Aug 15, 2008

That is their "Send your money to God, make the check out to me" methodology. They get fat while their "followers" starve.

[shazam113]

Now thats a pastor and not the fat hagee thug.....

[shazam113]

I would say one of Rick Warren''''s purposes in his purpose-driven life should be to purposely push away from the dinner table. Why are all these bible thumpers so fat?


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Posted by mrmazerati at 09:07 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Good point finally...

[gop_forever]

Your ignorance is only exceeded by your bigotry. Christianity is not a race it is a religion. Black/Negroid is a race. What you are saying is don''''t vote for Obama because he is black. Your linking him to Islam demonstrates just how stupid you are! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted by aboz3
============================
Now that you mention it, Obamas blackness is another reason not to vote for him. I mean if he cant choose the right color to be, what other mistakes will he make?

[lochllan]

It is if a woman wants to have an abortion and isn''''t allowed to. She''''s being punished for the intollerant religious views of others.

Posted by hungry1968 at 08:58 AM : Aug 15, 2008

If a women wants to kill her two-year child, is it punishment that she''s not allowed to murder it?

[shazam113]

Now that you mention it, Obamas blackness is another reason not to vote for him. I mean if he cant choose the right color to be, what other mistakes will he make?


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Posted by GOP_forever at 09:14

I know what colour, The colour of your moms gaping hole ,with green dark slimy maggotty gooey stuff....from where you decided to come out so you could post this hateful crapola.....johnshame....

[nextgenman]

If a women wants to kill her two-year child, is it punishment that she''''s not allowed to murder it?

Posted by lochllan at 09:14 AM : Aug 15, 2000
----------------

Abortion isn''t considered murder and therein lies your problem.
And living in this fantasyland "black and white" world of yours doesn''t help. Would you force a woman to say, raise a severely deformed child? Would you require a severely deformed child to live a long life of agony just to satisfy YOUR psychotic religious dogma?

[lochllan]

I challenge anyone here to go to www.theologyweb.com and post your harsh views of religious folks there. I look forward to the opportunity of seeing you flex that mental muscle! har, har, har!

[hungry1968]

It is if a woman wants to have an abortion and isn''''''''t allowed to. She''''''''s being punished for the intollerant religious views of others.

Posted by hungry1968 at 08:58 AM : Aug 15, 2008

If a women wants to kill her two-year child, is it punishment that she''''s not allowed to murder it?


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Posted by lochllan at 09:14 AM : Aug 15, 2008





That''s an irrelevant argument since the two year old child is already alive, where the fetus isn''t.

And the woman wouldn''t have the two year old child, if she didn''t want it in the first place.

[pollroller1]

Yep, it does look like ole Ricky boy has been eating good down at the old saddle back.

[nextgenman]

I challenge anyone here to go to www.theologyweb.com and post your harsh views of religious folks there. I look forward to the opportunity of seeing you flex that mental muscle! har, har, har!

Posted by lochllan at 09:22 AM : Aug 15, 2008
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Yawn. Its a psychotic evangelical schrrers site. Who would want to go there?

[wellhell3]

"Obama said he would have supported similar federal legislation, which was approved, had be been in Congress at the time. His campaign this week sent an email to reporters saying that Obama opposed the state legislation because it included language that could have been used to challenge Roe v. Wade."

This is just a flat our crock lie! The state legislation had the same language as the fed one! How many times is this idiot going to get away with just flat out lying?

[lochllan]

Abortion isn''''t considered murder and therein lies your problem.

Posted by nextGenMan at 09:20 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Therein lies my problem? So by killing something human, you''re not actually murdering it?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Whatever makes you sleep easier at night!

[nsubugamamba]

It seems that Senator Obama is described as having one of the most extreme positions that one can find when it comes to the issue of abortion%u2026.Normally, I can understand a lawyer%u2019s dancing on the head of a pin for the sake of not wanting to undermine a future legal argument or position. However, regarding Senator Obama, some other details give me pause and raise questions about whether his stated motivation(s) can be trusted.
Obama Would Evidently Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater found at:
http://zachjonesishome.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/obama-would-evidently-throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater/

[wellhell3]

Abortion isn''''t considered murder and therein lies your problem.
And living in this fantasyland "black and white" world of yours doesn''''t help. Would you force a woman to say, raise a severely deformed child? Would you require a severely deformed child to live a long life of agony just to satisfy YOUR psychotic religious dogma?


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Posted by nextGenMan at 09:20 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Sorry but that crock don''t fly. These things can be tested before the child becomes viable outside the mothers womb.

Live birth abortion should NOT be allowed.

[lochllan]

That''''s an irrelevant argument since the two year old child is already alive, where the fetus isn''''t.

And the woman wouldn''''t have the two year old child, if she didn''''t want it in the first place.

Posted by hungry1968 at 09:23 AM : Aug 15, 2008

So life on earth didn''t begin until humans showed up, or at least organisms that are larger than one cell? Puhleease....don''t be so foolish!

You assume to much when you say that no children are ever murdered by their parents. Must be nice to live in happy, Hussein-land.

[gop_forever]

I know what colour, The colour of your moms gaping hole ,with green dark slimy maggotty gooey stuff....from where you decided to come out so you could post this hateful crapola.....johnshame.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted by shazam11
=======================
That post is unfit for christian reading! You should be ashamed of yourself! I hope Jesus tazes you with his taser gun.

[lochllan]

I would have to be extremely bored

Posted by tuckerndfw at 09:25 AM : Aug 15, 2008

If you''re a lib on the CBS forums...you''re already there.

[hasher471]

As a member of the christian race, ...
Posted by GOP_forever at 08:48 AM : Aug 15, 2008
---------------------------------------------------
Here ya go again GOP_forever, I''ve asked this before and never got an answer...
who or what is the "christian race" ?

[lochllan]

It is a parasite until it is born and breathing on its own.

Posted by tuckerndfw at 09:30 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Parasites are living organisms.

You just lost your argument for yourself. congrats!

[gop_forever]

Here ya go again GOP_forever, I''''ve asked this before and never got an answer...
who or what is the "christian race" ?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted by hasher471
===========================
Thats a silly question.

[hasher471]

Although I am untimetly Pro-Choice, I believe late term abortion should be only in the case of rape, incest, assured death of the mother, etc.

[hasher471]

Thats a silly question.
Posted by GOP_forever at 09:35 AM : Aug 15, 2008
----------------------------------
Why is asking your definition of the "christian race" sill?
Do you mean Christina Faith" ?

[lochllan]

Did the parents of any of you abortionists ever have any kids that actually lived??

[hungry1968]

You assume to much when you say that no children are ever murdered by their parents. Must be nice to live in happy, Hussein-land.


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Posted by lochllan at 09:29 AM : Aug 15, 2008




Please post where I''ve EVER said that parents NEVER kill their children.

[hasher471]

Posted by betty520 at 09:40 AM : Aug 15, 2008
--------------------------
Betty you keep posting this k.rap!
Nobody wants to be your friend.
Go away :-)

[max0010]

Is it okay to just fudge and drop off years of your life if they do not represent what you want them to represent? Obama has deceived the American public, the Illinois bar, the Supreme Court and so forth. On all of these forms they ask have you ever gone by a former name and Barack Obama stated NO. This is just not true.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/13056.htm
Big question is why isn''t the press, the media, those that vetted Mr. Obama letting this charade continue. What has happened to "truth and justice"?

[micma-2009]

These nuts have us argueing about issues that only divide us, while the economy goes down the tubes. They throw out these wedge issues to divide and distract while they rob us blind. If evangelical preachers want to get involved in politics, they should lose their tax exempt status.

[gop_forever]

Why is asking your definition of the "christian race" sill?
Do you mean Christina Faith" ?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted by hasher471 at 09:38 AM
============================
Because everyone knows who a member of the christian race is. Its someone who is white, follows the teachings of Jesus, and who has enough money.

[hasher471]

Thats a silly question.
Posted by GOP_forever at 09:35 AM : Aug 15, 2008
----------------------------------

Why is asking your definition of the "christian race" silly?
Do you mean Christina Faith" ?

Thats a silly question.
------------------------------
Earth to GOP_forrver...Earth to GOP_Forever...Come in GOP

[lochllan]

And the woman wouldn''t have the two year old child, if she didn''t want it in the first place.

Posted by hungry1968 at 09:23 AM : Aug 15, 2008

You assume to much when you say that no children are ever murdered by their parents. Must be nice to live in happy, Hussein-land.

Posted by lochllan at 09:29 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Please post where I''''ve EVER said that parents NEVER kill their children.

Posted by hungry1968 at 09:42 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Maybe if you would copy and paste the WHOLE quote, instead hacking things to death like a good little agnostic, you might have less trouble in understanding your own gibberish.

[lochllan]

These nuts have us argueing about issues that only divide us

Posted by micma at 09:43 AM : Aug 15, 2008

Just keep voting Democrat or Republican! Your divisiveness FAR surpasses this discussion on abortion.

[pirmin3]

Why are these two talking to some evangelical twit?? Religion has absolutely NO place in government. The bible thumpers should stay in their churches and shut the F up.

[micma-2009]

These nuts have us arguing about issues that only divide us, while the economy goes down the tubes. They throw out these wedge issues to divide and distract while they rob us blind. If evangelical preachers want to get involved in politics, they should lose their tax exempt status.

[asdfqwertyui]

McCain is an adulterer and a warmonger. "Lay down your sword, for those who live by the sword will die by the sword." He jokes about killing Iranian civilians, while Jesus said "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you". McCain does not represent Christian values.

Meanwhile, Obama talks about feeding the poor and healing the sick, and you criticize him for it??

The Republicans have become experts at hijacking Christianity and using it to manipulate voters. This is what happens when you don''t have separation between church and state; the state takes over your church and uses it to control you.

They will keep pushing the abortion issue as if it''s the only thing that matters, while behind your back they''re killing entire families of full-grown human beings to make money for their corporate friends.

What has happened to the values of this country?

[hasher471]

Thats a silly question.
Posted by GOP_forever at 09:35 AM : Aug 15, 2008
----------------------------------


Why is asking your definition of the "christian race" silly?
Do you mean Christina Faith" ?
Posted by hasher471 at 09:47 AM : Aug 15, 2008
------------------------------------------
GOP_forever, Jesus was of the Jewish race. Do you mean that the "christian race" are Jewish?