Town Still Torn Over Immigrant Murder

Illegal Immigrant's Murder Brings Pennsylvania Town's Divisions To The Fore

(CBS)  In the town of Shenandoah, Penn., parishioners at a local church offered up prayers for peace - a peace that was broken the night of July 12, when Luis Ramirez, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, was beaten to death

The crime shocked people in this small, Appalachian town, reports CBS News correspondent Seth Doane. A late night street fight punctuated by ethnic slurs ended in Ramirez's death. Four high school students, all on the football team, are charged in connection with the homicide.

"I never thought there was such underlying hatred or bigotry," the town mayor said.

A group of girls that spoke to CBS News said they were shocked at the accused, "because they are nice boys."

"That's what I really don't understand," said one girl. "When I heard about it I was really surprised. I couldn't believe it was them."

Sixteen-year-old Brandon Piekarski and 17-year-old Colin Walsh were both charged with homicide. The football team's quarterback, 18-year-old Derrick Donchak, faces aggravated assault charges. The fourth teen's case is in juvenile court.

All of them, though, are charged with ethnic intimidation.

About a month after Ramirez's murder, some people aren't allowed to talk and others are still too frightened to. So trying to get a clear picture of what's really happening in Shenandoah isn't easy. And the answer changes, depending on whom you ask.

At a farmer's market, one woman emphatically denied noticing tension below the town's surface.

But Crystal Dillman, Ramirez's fiancé and mother of his three children, says she sees racism firsthand.

"It's pretty sad when you see the true sides of half of these people around here," she said. "It's not good when you go out and you have your small children and they're saying, 'Take your dirty Mexicans home and give them a bath.' "

Shenandoah has always been a magnet for migrants. Work in coal mines fueled a boom. But when the mines closed, people left and the population dropped to just over 5,500 today.

What has grown is the county's Hispanic population - up 65 percent since 2000 as a new wave of immigrants have come in search of jobs. Like "Cesar," who works in construction and said he knew Ramirez.

"After this happened I'm frightened to go out," he said through a translator. "You do go out, but not without watching your back."

White kids told CBS News they were scared and angry too - but from a different perspective.

"If that happened to a white person, every church in this god***n f***ing town wouldn't do a god***n thing about it," said one kid while pounding his fist to cheers from a surrounding group. "Just because they're f***ing border-jumpers and came over here."

"I can't say it without sounding racist," said another teenager. "I can't say, you know, the Mexicans came here and now there's problems."

"But is that how you feel?" asked Doane.

"Yeah … Obviously I've been here my whole life and I've never had a problem. Now there's problems," he responded.

The economic struggle here only aggravates any racial one. But even residents who just believe it was just a "terrible accident" say that's no excuse.

"It can't go unpunished," said the woman from the farmer's market. "Because it'll set a precedent that they can do that to the Mexican people."

While the community waits for justice, it holds a second vigil for Luis Ramirez, hoping for a future free of strife.

[u-r-right]

I guarantee any one of us would meet the same fate in any South American country if we just decided to cross the border and try to live there.

[ronbo888]

all in an uproar.how many americans are victims of these people who shouldnt be here?this country is paying for its own downfall

[paganmama]

Jeff9706--Please don''t project your xenophobia on people of other countries. If you had the courage to open your mind, and travel to Mexico, you would find that a majority of the people there are very humble, unbelievable gracious, the most giving people you''d ever meet.

[pensacola88]

Every person who sets foot in this country is guaranteed certain unalienable rights. This is printed in the US Federal Constitution. Some may expect that citizens of our country going to Mexico would recieve terrible treatment that was given to Louis Ramirez of Mexico, but it wouldn''t happen so easily. Being an alien is not a good reason to be murdered. Being an illegal alien is still not a good reason to be mistreated. Even illegal aliens have rights. Some people of this country act like this is not true, but in fact, it is.

I suggest that some readers find a copy of the US Constitution and begin to read it. Many loudmouths have gotten ugly and made immigration a theme of conversation just to voice their disapproval of people they don''t accept or understand. Most loud mouths aren''t even bilingual and don''t have a clue what happens in other countries.

Louis Ramirez had a constitutional guarantee to be treated better than he was. It was very unpatriotic to to be less than respectful to him, and highly unpatriotic to murder him.

No citizen of this nation should tolerate inhumane treatment of anyone, including aliens, whether legal or not.

[pensacola88]

I will concede the fact that there are some anti-social segments of our society who look for trouble and find it when they open their mouths. If these same people went to foriegn countries and expressed theirself the same way, they will definitely find theirself in trouble in those countries, too.

The problem is not with the country that hosts a trouble maker, the problem is with the charactar of the troublemaker. In most countries, even a trouble maker has rights.

[sammy197]

There appears to be a major piece of this story missed by the journalist. What happened to the remaining illegal immigrants in this town? Was ICE called to enforce immigration laws? This seems to be a case of picking and choosing which laws are enforced in this town. Maybe a great town to run scams or sell drugs if they don''t enforce ALL laws.

[xraytwonine]

does a few words and a few pieces of paper really makes us that different? i guess the answer is yes

[klewt]

U-R RIGHT -- You have obviously never lived outside the US. I have lived all over South America, including Mexico, and I was always treated warmly and kindly by the citizens of those countries. It made me feel ashamed of the way we treat foreigners in our country -- especially since we are a county of immigrants.

[jarochito30]

It''s scary to read these comments. It''s sad to know the feelings of some americans full of hatred and bigotry. I wonder if Jeff92706 has ever been in Mexico or another latino country, I''m sure you would feel shame of yourself after finding out that people doesn''t care if you are there legaly or not. Fortunaly, not all think like you. Thanks Pensacola888 for your comment, hope the readers understand that there''s no justification to kill another human being.

[gerrim]

Yes, of course, our Constitution protects individuals'' life and security but simple human decency and basic morality should do that. How is it that we still have such ignorance among young people? What kind of parents do they have? No enlightenment?
Totally evil to kill another human being whether they be legal or illegal.

[toolmangler-2009]

open your mind, and travel to Mexico, you would find that a majority of the people there are very humble, unbelievable gracious, the most giving people you''''d ever meet.
Posted by Paganmama at 08:47 PM : Aug 13, 2008



So are most Americans. ssshhheeeeeeesssshhhhh

[gerrim]

Jarochito:
work on your spelling and English:1. American
2.feel ashamed of yourself
3.finding out that people DON''t care, not doesn''t care
4.legally
5.Fortunately

[sammy197]

Please be informed. If you are in Mexico illegally, you are jailed immediately.

[gerrim]

jeff92706
Hard to know if most Americans are gracious and humble. It seems that more and more many are not.

Paganmama is talking about the people in Mex. You started to talk about the government. Not the same

[toolmangler-2009]

Posted by jeff92706 at 09:27 PM : Aug 13, 2008


I went there, awesome!!!!


http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/lillpop022707.htm

[gerrim]

This discussion is about how people treat illegals, not how the government of these countries treat illegals. Here there is some discrimination and xenophobia. In Mex. the people are generally gracious and so on; except, of course, for all the criminals who kill and kidnap wantonly.

[mattcbsmatt]

Usual pro illegal immigration from Mexico story : )
Why is this?
How much did CBS accept for this story
Another pro-illegal activity, pro-illegal immigration, pro-amnesty from mexico.
EXPLAIN AND UNDERSTAND.
They are not fooling me.

[jarochito30]

Work in progress gerrim, lol,

[mensarino]

The apologists for what these murderous thugs did should be ashamed. Don''t steer the discussion away from their culpability.Don''t try to absolve the killers because the victim was here illegally. Do not let your attitudes mitigate the horror of what they did to this man. Shame on you.you aren''t fit to be called Americans.

[bhappy2-2]

We need to get these ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS out of our country. We need to make it economically infeasible to hire ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS. Then, the ILLEGAL ALIEN INVADERS will SELF-DEPORT. Wouldn''t that be AWESOME?

[mattcbsmatt]

Usual pro illegal immigration from Mexico story : )
Why is this?
How much money did CBS accept for this story
Another pro-illegal activity, pro-illegal immigration, pro-amnesty from mexico.
EXPLAIN AND UNDERSTAND.
They are not fooling me.
Propaganda
EXPLAIN AND you UNDERSTAND.

[jlc39]

There are two seperate problems in this little town and they both need to be dealt with. This is an impoverished area since the major industry of the coal mine shut down and the resources available to the citizens are being stretched even thinner by the surge of illegal immigrants. As a nation we have to face the problem of what is estimated as anywhere between 12 and 20 MILLION illegal immigrants. As our national economy becomes strained more and more people are going to view the illegal immigrants as a burdon that we can no longer bear. That point aside, nothing justifies the violent actions of the teens against an individual immigrant. The teens involved need to answer for their crimes. The 12-20 Million illegal immigrants need to answer for theirs too. As a community that town needs to prosecute the case against the teens as they would any other murder. As a nation we need to enforce our immigration laws, punish employers that knowingly hire illegal immigrants and we need to secure our borders against more illegal immigrants crossing into the US whether it be from Mexico, Canada, Cuba or via any port of entry. This is not only an immigration issue but a national security issue. If a migrant construction worker or farm worker can cross into the US, then it is not unreasonable to assume that terrorists can cross into the US just as easily.

[sammy197]

Part 1
For those of you who do not live in a state bordering Mexico, illegals other than Mexicans are crossing the border. People, weapons and dangerous material smuggling have become big business for the coyotes (not to forget the illegal drug trade).There are thousands of Mexicans who become legal citizens every year. I believe these are the people referred to as "a nation of immigrants". We absolutely welcome legal immigrants from all countries. Ask an illegal if they wish to become an American citizen. The majority do not. Understandable they want jobs to feed their families. The companies in America who employ illegals try to convince Americans these are jobs no American wants. This has been proven false multiple times when companies are raided, illegal workers removed and the Americans line up to fill those jobs. These young men chose the wrong solution (remember we need to wait to see if these young men are guilty) but this frustration is the result of our government not enforcing the laws

[sammy197]

Part 2
Arizona passed an employer sanctions law in January of this year. An employer knowingly hiring illegals can lose their license to do business in Arizona. Many of these workers are now going to other states so I see this issue increasing in towns all across America. Arizona''s major crimes have decreased 18% since January. Coincidence? Illegal immigrants cost Arizona taxpayers $3 billion dollars per year (does not include the millions spent cleaning the trash discarded while crossing nor the destruction to the Sonoran desert). These costs will now be coming to your state.This will be the end of America unless the borders are secured (with a legal worker program for labor we need). American can secure the border of Iraq but not our own borders?
Please get involved in your country and from time-to-time read news published outside of the U.S. to learn the entire story.

[joan1v]

ILLEGAL immigrants, why can''t anybody get that right.

[whiskyrokkr]

If you are in this country illegally,leave.

[patriot12436]

We need to enforce the immigration laws and make the penalties so severe to companies hiring them they will not make jobs available. Manke a mandatory jail sentence for anyone who hires an illegal. I also do not condone what these boys did and hope the law is upheld. But i also blame the *** who had his kids as she was a motive for his staying. He had plenty of opportunity to apply to be here legally.

[patriot12436]

toolmangler
I agree
No country has given to the world more than the U.S. I also see the ugly American in foreign countries showing up acting like they are better than everyone else. I always try to show respect for other countries cultures, and their people. I find it makes my visits much more enjoyable. I will try any food offered although at times i find it repulsive. To not accept would be an insult to the people offering, and there have been times i have been pleasantly surprised. I enjoy my trtavels and obey their laws. Therefore when they come to our country i expect them to learn our language and abide by our laws as wqell.

[randynason]

If you''re a good person, you''ll see the good in others. If you''re an ******, that''s what you will see, too.

[sthalvi-2009]

Tragic as this incident is, there are huge, unspoken tensions and prejudices between decades established US citizens and illegal aliens. The bottom line is they are here, and always will be. We can''t secure such a vast border in the near future. Illegals and legals alike work here to make a better life for their relatives back home, Mexico. So here''s a possible solution; annex Mexico and give that countries people the same opportunities as we have in the US, while at the same time, having them pay the taxes and live by the laws that have helped to build this great country. There would be no need to enter this country, a huge work force with a large tax base, and a smaller border to defend. All of the money that''s earned in this country would be spent in this country. It''s a win-win situation, however improbable. History shows great things have come from battling improbable odds. And as Americans, We know this.

[krotec54]

Why is this illegal Mexican immigrant fianci not arrested for aiding and abetting?

[rudy654-2009]

ILLEGAL immigrants, why can''''t anybody get that right.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Joan1v at 10:53 PM :

MURDER, why can''t you get that right?

[Meg003]

Criminal invaders is what they should be called, or illegal aliens. They aren''t immigrants. Immigration implies a desire to comply with the laws of the new country. Most of these hispanic criminal invaders just want to buy consumer goods, not become model citizens.

[elmaskbron]

sammy you are full of **** you are the bigges lair ever I have family in Arizona and they said
that they haven''t see the change at all

[sammy197]

sammy you are full of **** you are the bigges lair ever I have family in Arizona and they said
that they haven''''t see the change at all

Does your family watch the news or follow crime statistics? Do they have facts that counter this?

[roachcrusher]

Inbreds. Hang them from their cajones.

The racists in that town and those commenting here ought to go back to Euro-pee-on land where THEY belong. Talk about ********. Swim back. Maybe the Atlantic will take away your smell since the world knows you you stink badly.

[sthalvi-2009]

QUIT YOUR *******!!!!! How about ideas and possible solutions. If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.

[benissimo-2009]

So many pathetic inbred people in this country, Deliverance is alive and well.

[annia1233]

They are not "nice boys", they are boys that have everything nd think they are at the top of the world; so high up there that a person, who is an illegal immigrant is for them the same in the ancient Egipt slaves used to be for the dominat class. Those immigrants have no value in the eyes of that sort of "I-have-everything-young-teen". Prepotence, and disregard for human values. There is no compassion, no empathy. There is where we are going with this generation of whinners and "me, me,me and me first"
I hope they will get the maximum and the justice rid us (society) of these sort of human being that should be brought out as an example of what no one should be. Murderers.

[Meg003]

sthalvi
Annex Mexico??? You do realize that Mexico has a huge and vigorous economy? Why on earth would Mexico give up sovereignty and become "annexed"? Or do you think we should attempt an armed invasion?

[annia1233]

lazareth, why don''t you think twice what you have said?, I can say the same for you: If you had not been born, I would not have to read such a stupid, indolent remark

[sammy197]

If you don''t like the people in this country perhaps you should leave. Why did you come here in the first place? Don''t assume everyone providing comments and solutions are of European descent. Keep your racist comments to yourself. Offer solutions.

[Meg003]

Murderers.

Posted by annia1233

You must have read some other articles. This one just says there was a fight, implying that others were also fighting. Was it all of the boys against just one man?

[annia1233]

You all generation of "me,me,me" should know that those boys would kill you too as well and as fast as they did the Mexican. Who ever have the heart to kill another human being will do it to any other human being. What do you all think? that because you are legal and not foreign you would have had better luck with those killers? there your stupidity have no borders. Idiots inbreed

[mensarino]

Here''s my solution. Don''t blame the victim. He may have been here illegally but he didn''t deserve to be murdered. As for those so-called "nice boys"-----throw them in jail for the rest of their sorry lives.

[Meg003]

Mexicans illegally enter our country to take jobs that would not otherwise be theirs. They do not care that people in Africa and Asia have been waiting their turns for many years to gain legal entry into the United States for those jobs. They come here because they can think only of ME, ME, ME.

[sthalvi-2009]

meg,
do you realize that a large part of their vigorous economy comes from money transferred from the US? And with this vigorous economy, why are they living in such a state as to risk their lives to cross the border to come to the US. How about '''' Power to the People''''? instead of ''''Power Over the People''''? Let them decide instead of the tunnel vision approach of invade and conquer. Once again, If your not part of the solution, your part of the problem.

[patriot12436]

meg001
Your kidding right ? If Mexico has such a glorious economy then why are its citizens coming here illegally?

[patriot12436]

Why hasn''t the mother of his kids been charged ? She knew he was illegal therefore she was breaking the law harboring a fugitiive.

[sthalvi-2009]

meg,
If the people of Africa or Asia had easy access to this country as does Latin America, they would be here too.