LANCASTER, Pa., Aug. 12, 2008
Obama Faces Challenge With Older Voters
Washington Post: In A Changing Corner of Pennsylvania, A Glimpse Of Democrat's Age Problem
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A new poll shows Presidential candidate Barak Obama is now leading John McCain among "working class whites." Jeff Greenfield breaks down the numbers.
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Even as younger voters are showing signs of breaking with years of lackluster turnout to support him, Barack Obama is facing singular resistance from voters over 65. (AP)
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When Gene Rutherford, 65, tries to make sense of the meteoric rise of Barack Obama, and the rampant enthusiasm for him among younger Americans, he thinks of the local mall, where as director of operations he often deals with teenagers.
"Kids today have been given everything they want, and don't have to work for it. They have no respect for authority," said Rutherford, standing at the bar at the Elks lodge here. "They'll make remarks right to the face of the [mall] cops. I get to the point where I want to do something," he said, cocking a fist as if to threaten a punch. "But the police say we can't, that we just have to stand there." It makes him worry for the country. "I see it going the Roman way."
If the senator from Illinois is going to achieve his goal of bridging the nation's divides, he is going to have to overcome a generation gap with older voters unlike any such split a Democratic presidential nominee has faced in years.
Even as younger voters are showing signs of breaking with years of lackluster turnout to support him, Obama is facing singular resistance from voters over 65. That age group turns out at the highest rate on Election Day and is disproportionately represented in the swing states of Florida and Pennsylvania; Bill Clinton and Al Gore both relied on it in winning the Democrats' only popular-vote majorities of the past two decades.
With polls showing Obama dominating among those under 40 and running even among middle-aged voters, Republican John McCain's lead among those 65 and older is the main reason he remains close overall. His margin is largest among older white voters without a college education, accounting for much of Obama's problem with the white working class.
Obama has tried to compensate by proposing a tax cut for seniors, which was criticized by economists. But as Rutherford's comments suggest and surveys show, Obama's challenge goes deeper than a new proposal or two -- an approach that worked for Clinton against George H.W. Bush and Robert J. Dole.
Surveys and interviews suggest that older voters think McCain, who will turn 72 this month, comes far closer than Obama, 47, to sharing their values and outlook on the world and on the changes in the nation over the past half-century.
"The older people just don't see Obama in these glowing terms," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "For older voters, a lot of the reservations really have to do with this experience factor, while younger voters see in Obama something much closer to themselves."
The generational split is on display in Lancaster, a city of 55,000 in the heart of Pennsylvania Dutch country, a once solidly Republican area that is growing more mixed with an influx of Hispanic immigrants and urban professionals.
Trying to sustain itself amid the city's changes is the local branch of the Elks Club, the 140-year-old fraternal organization, which like similar groups is losing members. Rutherford, who served two terms as his branch's "exalted leader," sees a link between falling membership -- from 1,200 a decade ago to 680 today -- and Obama's popularity among local youths.
"Kids want to think for themselves -- they don't care what Mom and Dad say," said Rutherford, a burly man with a Manhattan in his hand. "This was a Republican stronghold, but it's changing very quickly because it's 'Mom and Dad, you're Republican, so I ain't ever going to be one of them.'"
Rutherford's pessimism does not extend to his own four children, three of whom followed him and his father and grandfather in becoming Elks. He presumes that they lean Republican, as he does, though he votes Democratic now and then and wishes former Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge, a Republican who supports abortion rights, were the GOP nominee.
He worries about McCain's ability as a candidate but has deep respect for what he endured in Vietnam. Rutherford received draft deferments while enrolled as an electrician's apprentice, and that has bothered him ever since. "It was not the greatest decision in my life," he said. "An awful lot of my friends didn't come back or didn't come back in the best mental condition. . . . I felt that I'd let them down."
While he has spent his whole life in Lancaster, he says he is more worldly than many of his contemporaries there. He and his girlfriend are thinking about investing in real estate in Baltimore, and he prided himself on putting the lodge's newsletter online, despite complaints from older members. Nonetheless, he has trouble fathoming as president someone who, as he sees it, is not qualified. "It's kind of a tried-and-true American versus an unknown," he said.
The presidential race has featured generational contrasts before, most recently when Clinton, a baby boomer, took on World War II veterans in Bush and Dole. But Clinton fared well with older voters because of the strong support for programs such as Social Security among the seniors who predominated in the 1990s, many of whom grew up during Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal. In 2000, Gore narrowly won voters over 65 after echoing Clinton's arguments about Social Security. In 2004, John F. Kerry lost voters over 65 by five percentage points to President Bush, and he lacked the huge edge that Obama holds in polls with younger voters to make up the difference.
Edward F. Coyle, executive director of the left-leaning Alliance of Retired Americans, said Obama holds the traditional Democratic edge on issues such as pensions, but is lagging with seniors because his campaign became so identified with younger voters during the primaries, as older ones gravitated toward Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton.
"There was never a lot of discussion about the issues we work on, and he wasn't working with older communities to get out their vote," Coyle said. "He's pretty much unknown on these issues as a result, and has a lot of work to do."
Demographers have for decades noted a conservative bent in McCain's age cohort, roughly those born between 1930 and 1945, who came of age in the relatively serene Eisenhower years. Even as their views have changed over time, members of this generation have remained notably more conservative than those who followed.
A Pew survey last year found that the proportion of those born before 1946 who approve of interracial dating had increased from 36 percent to 65 percent since 1987, but that that rate remained well below that for the generations that followed. Across a range of other social issues, such as women's rights and gay rights, the views of all post-1946 generations clustered together, while pre-baby boomers stood apart as more conservative.
And this year, older voters find themselves presented with a choice that illuminates societal shifts.
McCain hails from an America that exalted service to country, and he is the scion of a military family who endured five years in enemy captivity and who preaches a mantra of personal honor and of the nation over the individual -- "Country First," as his campaign slogan declares. His wife is conspicuously reserved at his side; he does not communicate by e-mail and only recently learned to use the Internet; even his roguish sense of humor carries echoes of the more chauvinistic 1950s of his youth.
Obama's embodiment of a newer America begins but hardly ends with the fact that he would be the first black president. In a country where people liked to know where you were from, Obama lacks a ready answer -- he is part Hawaii, part Kansas, part Chicago. In a recent speech in Berlin, he declred himself a "citizen of the world."
He came of age after the draft and was shaped by the modern meritocracies of premier universities. While McCain has served 26 years in Congress and has run for president before, Obama contends with the perception that he has shot to the top without putting in his time. He and his wife exemplify the contemporary marriage of professional equals. His campaign thrives on the Internet and is very much about his appeal as an individual, with iconic posters and YouTube compilations. If he shares anything with the America of yore, it is that he likes to smoke cigarettes.
Faced with this divide, older voters have made their preference for McCain clear -- even though they are more likely than younger ones to express concern about his age, possibly because they are aware of the challenges they face as they grow older. In April, a Pew survey found that more than 70 percent of voters under 50 and 67 percent between 50 and 64 found Obama inspiring, but that only 53 percent over age 65 did.
McCain has exploited this gap with his ads, which frame Obama as a mere pop idol in a way meant to incite resentment against celebrity youth culture. But McCain will need those attacks to resonate not just among older voters but also among the middle-aged, given how much he lags among the youngest voters, the "millennial generation" that is taking shape as even more Democratic-leaning than young voters before them. And notably, Obama is holding his own among baby boomers, despite casting himself as the one who can move politics beyond their culture clashes.
Here again, there are clues among the Lancaster Elks, who occupy a handsome 19th-century brick edifice downtown, with stained glass, elegant wall carvings and stuffed elk busts decorating the bar where hot dinners are served three times a week. The current branch leader is Tim Patches, 52, a baby boomer who leans Republican but is still undecided about this election and generally possesses a worldview far different from Rutherford's.
Patches, a real estate broker, takes a kindly view of today's young people, saying he has been encouraged by his success in getting some new members in their 20s and 30s after a long dry spell. At first, he worried they were joining for the perks: four duckpin bowling lanes with automated pin-spotters, cheap beer. But they have gotten involved in the club's service efforts, which, along with his son's decision to join the Marines last year, has made him think "this younger generation is very volunteer-oriented, very patriotic."
He is sanguine about the new immigrants in town. "I like change. I know a lot of people fear it, but how do you move on in an organization or business without it?" he said. He is only slightly more grudging about gay rights. "When it comes to constitutional law, it doesn't matter how I morally think," he said. "If we're all protected, whether I like it or not is irrelevant."
Patches traces his looser view to his upbringing in the 1960s and '70s, when he watched on TV as the country lurched through the Vietnam War and the urban riots, an era that he said knocked loose assumptions and scrambled partisan definitions.
"Then you had the computer, all the tech advances," he said. "When I grew up, you were a Republican or Democrat and neither shall be the other. Now . . . not everything needs to be liberal or conservative. You've got an opportunity to actually sit back and think."
Not that he tolerates everything. Flag burning, for instance, still upsets him. But he thought it was silly when Obama came under fire for not wearing a flag pin on his lapel. "I mean, come on. If you're going to nitpick everyone who wants to be president, you're going to run out of everyone, and then you'll have to come to me," he said.
"And that would be a problem. Because I'd want duckpin bowling at the White House."
By Alec MacGillis
© 2008 The Washington Post Company
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See all 761 CommentsObama Would Evidently Throw The Baby Out With The Bathwater found at:
http://zachjonesishome.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/obama-would-evidently-throw-the-baby-out-with-the-bathwater/
McCain Policies
Q&A with McCain:
Q: What is your foreign policy?
A: Keep the troops in Iraq
Q. What is your economic policy?
A: Keep the troops in Iraq
Q: What is your healthcare policy?
A: Keep the troops in Iraq
Q: Global warming?
A: Keep the troops in Iraq
Q: Energy Alternatives?
A: Keep the troops in Iraq
Q: Can you say anything other than keep the troops in Iraq?
A: Yes, Send the troops to Iran
change happens whether it is feared or not.
Additionally, the tired old ideas we''ve had up until now are what has gotten America into the disaster we live in now:
Huge Deficits
Doubled National Debt
Two Never-ending Wars
Inflation
High Fuel
Layoffs and outsourcing...
and it goes on and on. We NEED change in order to overcome these difficulties and no matter how much its screeched, the same tired old ideas McCain offers won''t fix the problems caused by those same, tired, old ideas.
We all tend to see him has energetic and smart. "McCain on the other hand comes across as angry and just a little bit jealous." says an 78 year old friend of mine. When do we get to be part of a poll?
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Posted by nextGenMan at 09:53 AM : Aug 12, 2008
CHANGE to what, sonny. Nobama has NO experience in anything! His prposals for socialized medicine, a desire for unconditional face to face talks with terrorist regimes and a tax plan that will cost middle America thousands in additional taxes.
Nobama
No Thanks!
Needless to say that the old *** rutherford is a Reepublican and reveres the "patiotic" and "valiant" way in which GW bush defended ''murrkkka by falling off bar stools in alabummy in a drunken stupor
Posted by dante805 "
so learned that they yap about talking to the leaders of non existent countries a la John McDepend promising to talk to the leaders of Czechoslovakia
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Posted by junglejimy12 at 09:42 AM : Aug 12, 2008
It seems obvious that Nobama isn''t ready for the job. But, try to convince emotional LIBS who don''t even listen to Nobama when he speaks, they just wet their panties like schoolgirls with a crush.
Nobama fans, WHAT has he accomplished in his nearly 2 long years in the senate?
The funny thing is, that''s just what the WW2 generation said about us baby boomers when we were 20 something!
Some things never change.
But there''s a couple of things in particular that older people respect, and should respect in Obama--those are evidence of intelligence and accomplishment.
McCain had everything given to him by his rich admiral daddy and his rich beer heiress second wife. He never really had to earn a thing. He was pushed through the Naval Academy on his family connections. When he wanted to go into politics, he dumped his loyal first wife and married a moneybags.
Obama came from a very modest background and earned entry to Harvard Law School, where he was the first Black law review editor. He worked his way up through the ranks. He is where he is based on his own talents and hard work, not skid greasing by the rich and privileged.
And just compare his thinking and speaking ability to those of McCain. McCain can''t even read straight from a teleprompter, while Obama can coolly and intelligently discuss just about any topic off the cuff. McCain needs to be told what to do by his handlers.
That is why this baby boomer, who even voted for Bush in 2000 (sorry now!), is supporting Obama.
Go Obama ''08!
What is the difference between the two plans? Obama would raise taxes on the very wealthiest people. People with incomes between $227,000 and $603,000 would pay $12 more. That''''s three cheeseburgers. And the biggest increases would be imposed on the very richest, most successful people.
McCain, on the other hand, would give tax breaks to the very richest people equal to or greater than than the median income of working Americans. Up to $269,000 in tax breaks per individual. The average worker has to work about 5 years for the same amount.
The difference is in priorities. McCain would simply continue Bush''''s tax relief for the people who need it the least while starving the federal budget and cutting back on public services. All while waging a $10 billion per month war in Iraq for more oil and more profits for McCain''''s other constituency: Big Oil.
"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. Sen. John McCain has a lifetime of experience that he''''d bring to the White House. And Sen. Obama has a speech he gave in 2002." Hillary Clinton
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/hillary-clinton.html
According to analysis of the McCain tax plan in comparison with the Obama tax plan by the Tax Policy Center, recent McCain commercials that insist Obama wants to raise "your" taxes are lies.
Unless the ads are targeted for the very tiny group of the richest Americans. But that doesn''''t seem likely does it?
According to the analysis Obama''''s plan would cut taxes for everyone making $227,000 or less.
That is me and most every person and working family.
In fact, Obama''''s tax cuts for people who make less than $112,000 would be higher than those proposed by McCain.
The overwhelming majority of people in the country would see tax cuts under an Obama administration of around $600, for the lowest income tax payers to $2800 for people earning under $227,000. I think the Obama campaign pegs the average at about $1,000 per person.
(cont)
I am a retired Federal, white haired, white 61 year old Catholic.
I am voting a "straight" Democrat ticket.
What experience does McCain have besides a military career and a 95 percent Bush supporter.
We do not need to repeat the last 8 years.
Except none of these observations are holding up well. Obama is doing very well with Latino voters, Jewish voters, and according to a new Washington Post report, working-class, low-income voters.
Democratic Sen. Barack Obama holds a 2 to 1 edge over Republican Sen. John McCain among the nation%u2019s low-wage workers.
Obama%u2019s advantage is attributable largely to overwhelming support from two traditional Democratic constituencies: African Americans and Hispanics. But even among white workers %u2014 a group of voters that has been targeted by both parties as a key to victory in November %u2014 Obama leads McCain by 10 percentage points, 47 percent to 37 percent, and has the advantage as the more empathetic candidate.
Let%u2019s not brush past this point too quickly %u2014 among low-income whites, Obama leads McCain by 10. To be sure, about one in six of the white workers remains uncommitted, but at least for now, Obama seems to have a sizable lead with a constituency that was rumored to be a lost cause up until fairly recently.
Hence the stepped up *Obama is an uppity elitist* smear from Rove and friends.
The intent of all these false accusations is to raise doubt about the candidate. See the Karl Rove playbook - when you have no record to run on start making baseless accusations of your opponent - see also character assassination. If a person is uninformed these statements create doubts about the candidate and they are more likely to support the familiar, "more of the same" candidate; that is why they say negative ads work.
But are they working this time?
Defying expectations, low-wage workers prefer Obama
By: Steve Benen @ 11:00 AM - PDT
For quite a while, there were certain trends that political observers were simply supposed to accept as fact: Barack Obama would struggle to win support from Latino voters. And Jewish voters. And working-class, low-income voters. These were obvious %u201Ctruths%u201D that %u201Ceveryone%u201D knew.
(cont)
Nobama fans, WHAT has he accomplished in his nearly 2 long years in the senate?*
What has Obama done? Let us see:
Health care -- 233 bills
Poverty -- 125 bills
Crime -- 112 bills
Economy -- 97 bills
Education -- 62 bills
Civil Rights -- 60 bills
Infrastructure -- 35 bills
Ethics -- 21 bills
Administrative -- 21 bills
Enviornment -- 20 bills
Gun Control -- 15 bills
Memorial acts -- 15 bills
Military Affaris -- 6 bills
Shall I go on?
I sink Swiftboats!
That is me and most every person and working family.
Posted by taotxzen at 10:20 AM : Aug 12, 2008
Nobama is blowing smoke up your a$$. He has pledged to let the Bush tax cuts expire. That alone will raise the tax burden on a family with $50,000 of taxable income by $2500.
Letting the tax cuts expire is a tax INCREASE to average Americans.
Nobama smoke and mirrors. Not my President!
By: John Amato @ 10:00 AM - PDT
Here%u2019s Hannity and Newt trying to frame Obama into the neat little narrative Rove has created for him.
Gingrich: Narcissistic, stunningly arrogant%u2014need, daring, stunning, full of himself, out of touch, he%u2019s floating 25 feet above the ground, take a week off and get back in touch with reality, sounding goofy%u2026
And so it goes. Newt has the playbook down. Hannity can certainly take everything Obama says out of context, that is what he is paid to do.
(cont)
That is me and most every person and working family.
Posted by taotxzen at 10:20 AM : Aug 12, 2008
Nobama is blowing smoke up your a$$. He has pledged to let the Bush tax cuts expire. That alone will raise the tax burden on a family with $50,000 of taxable income by $2500.
Letting the tax cuts expire is a tax INCREASE to average Americans.
Nobama smoke and mirrors. Not my President!
Posted by mbcsmith
My source is the Tax Policy Center, yours??
Posted by mbcsmith at 10:10 AM : Aug 12, 2008
What has Songbird accomplished after all his time at the Federal trough.
Talk about socialism, has John received a paycheck that has been signed by Uncle Sam - some experience...
Posted by mbcsmith at 10:10 AM : Aug 12, 2008
What has Songbird accomplished after all his time at the Federal trough.
Talk about socialism, has John received a paycheck that has been signed by Uncle Sam - some experience...
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Posted by IOWEIGN at 10:25 AM : Aug 12, 2008
That''s what I thought. NOTHING.
NEVER VOTE DEMONIC-RAT AGAIN,,,
THEY ARE FOR COMMUNISM,,,
Howard Stern vows never to vote for Democrat again due to merger opposition: ''They''re for Communism''...
http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080724152511.aspx
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Posted by taotxzen at 10:25 AM : Aug 12, 2008
Listening to Nobama and doing the math. Try it sometime. It''s very enlightening.
DEMONIC-RAT HUSSEIN IS NOT THE SOLUTION,,,
EXPOSE HUSSEIN
http://www.exposeobama.com/obamaislam.html
www.obamatruth.org
www.stop-obama.org
A Video Portrait Of Barack Hussein Obama
http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=2036
The Barack Obama Test
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/02/the_barack_obama_test.html
Obama-Odinga-Rezko-Ayers-Auchi-Saddam Hussein
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIe4d9Nmg9k
Raila Odinga was also financially backed by Muammar al-Gaddafi. Raila Odinga is Obama''s cousin:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/717...
Why does Raila Odinga use Obama''s exact same campaign slogan: CHANGE....Vote for CHANGE: Look at his website:
http://www.raila07.com/
IMPEACH HUSSEIN NOW,,,
SIGN THE PETITION
Impeach, expel Barack Obama
http://obamaimpeachment.org
HUSSEIN IS NO COMMANDER IN CHIEF,,, lol
McCain Tops Obama in Commander-in-Chief Test; Stays Competitive on Iraq
Poll Finds 72 Percent of Americans Say McCain Would be Good Commander-in-Chief
http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/Politics/Story?id=5370538&page=1
Obama: Commander-in-(mis)chief?
http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/imperium/2008/07/200872011345855233.html
That annoys me to no end.
I am no "youngster" and, while I have not quite become an "oldster", one thing I know for sure because I have had to read and listen to the evidence now for years on end:
If the "older generation" keeps on electing Republicans, one day they are going to wake up and find that somebody like Bush or Tom DeLay or Bill Frist took Social Security and invested it into the stock market or used it to finance some junk financial bonds or...
AND POOF! IT IS GONE!
But no doubt it will turn out that whoever ran the corporations responsible for losing it is shielded from liability and given retroactive immunity by a little-noticed Republican addendum to some legislation affecting something innocuous like "Food for starving children in Tennessee"...
D@MN! WAKE UP, MOM & DAD!
Have you learned NOTHING from the WMD lies or the mortgage crisis?
THE REPUBLICANS EVEN CORRUPTED THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE!!!
Do you really think your "golden years" are safe in their hands?
If you do, I urge you to get tested for Alzheimer''s, ASAP.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hamas+endorses obama&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=hezbollah endorse obama
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nation of islam endorses obama &btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=International Solidarity Movement obama &btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama islamic marxist group ISM &btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama Audacity of Hope I will stand with the Muslims&btnG=Search
Once upon a time there was a serpent who was badly injured in a fight with another animal. It managed to slither away to safety but would have surely died if a benevolent man had not seen it suffering by the side of the road. The goodly man carefully wrapped the snake up and took it to his house, where he bestowed the kindest and gentlest care on the snake until it was healed and could return to the wild. Just as the man was releasing the serpent back into the grass, the ungrateful snake turned and bit him on the hand.
"What did you do that for?" cried the man, who knew that the bite of this particular snake was usually fatal. "Didn''t I take care of you when no one else would?"
The snake shrugged (no small feat for a snake!) and replied to the benevolent--and now doomed-- man, "What did you expect? You knew I was a snake when you picked me up."
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Posted by taotxzen at 10:25 AM : Aug 12, 2008
LOL...LOL again. Nobama hasn''t even voted that many times. LIB LIES! If you are suggesting Nobama has sponsored these bills you are sssoooo misinformed. Get off the moron.org website and think!
Posted by mbcsmith at 10:27 AM : Aug 12, 2008
The GOP has gone GREEN.
McCain is 100 percent "RECYCLED" Bush...
Letting the tax cuts expire is a tax INCREASE to average Americans.
Nobama smoke and mirrors. Not my President!
Posted by mbcsmith
I guess the next thing you will post is that having the most unequal distribution of wealth and income of any major nation in the industrialized world is great for working families.
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Posted by taotxzen at 10:25 AM : Aug 12, 2008
LOL...LOL again. Nobama hasn''''t even voted that many times. LIB LIES! If you are suggesting Nobama has sponsored these bills you are sssoooo misinformed. Get off the moron.org website and think!
Posted by mbcsmith
Typical, all hat, no cattle wing-nut...
ummmmmmm
social security is a PONZI/PYRAMID SCHEME,,,
it is non sustainable,,,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
Posted by mbcsmith
======================================================
Don''t like him, than move....
ummmmmmm
social security is a PONZI/PYRAMID SCHEME,,,
Posted by terrorislamx at 10:34 AM : Aug 12, 2008
lollll....see what I mean, "Mom & Dad"?
They are not even shy about admitting their desire to destroy Social Security...
Posted by mbcsmith
Speaking of voting records:
According to Congressional Quarterly, Senator John McCain has voted with President Bush 100% of the time in 2008 and 95% of the time in 2007.
DEMONIC-RATS ARE DESTROYING social security,,,
they are giving it away to ILLEGALS,,,
After studying the average yearly price of gasoline from 1949 to 2007, and assigning the number "1" to the ratio in 1960, we found today''s prices comparable to what they were in 1960 (1.35 today to 1.00 in 1960, with a high of 3.32 in 1998). The higher the gasoline affordability index figure, the lower the price of gasoline relative to disposable income.
Gee.... a high of 3.32 in 1998, two years before the "puppet of Big Oil" took office. Seems to take that who arguement down a notch or two.
The price of oil is down, the dollar is gaining strength, exports for last month were a record 400 billion, it is NOT the economy stupid, it is just stupid liberals constantly harping about how bad the economy is. Remember the Democrat mantra put forth by Pelosi, Reid, moveon, the MSM.......repeat a lie long enough and it becomes the truth..
Oh and BTW... the surge is and has been working....there goes another issue...mmmm bye bye Obama
DEMONIC-RATS ARE DESTROYING social security,,,
they are giving it away to ILLEGALS,,,
Posted by terrorislamx at 10:39 AM : Aug 12, 2008
How conveniently you overlook the fact that it is "business" - run by Republicans, by and large - who hires the illegals and thus creates the demand upon our social system....
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