Suicide Latest Twist In 7-Yr. Anthrax Saga

Lawyer Of Suspect Says Scientist Was Innocent, Driven To Kill Himself By Feds' "Accusation And Innuendo"

(CBS/AP)  Seven years after anthrax-laced letters terrorized an already frightened United States, a new suspect suddenly emerged in the public eye this week. But he was gone just as quickly, committing suicide before he could be charged with murder and adding another dramatic twist to the bizarre episode.

The U.S. government's working theory - that brilliant but troubled Army scientist Bruce E. Ivins released the anthrax to test his cure for the toxin - answers some of the questions, perhaps, but many details remain unclear.

According to CBS News correspondent Chip Reid, law enforcement sources say the anthrax terror case can finally be closed, but the lawyers for the latest named suspect in this case say their client was an innocent man driven to take his own life by a relentless investigation.

"I think the FBI owes us a complete accounting of their investigation and ought to be able to tell us at some point, how we're going to bring this to closure," said former Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota, whose office received a letter containing the deadly white powder in 2001. "It's been seven years, there's a lot of unanswered questions and I think the American people deserve to know more than they do today."

Ivins' unexpected emergence as the top - and perhaps only - suspect in the anthrax attacks follows on the heels of the government's exoneration of another Army scientist in the case.

Last month, the Justice Department cleared Ivins' colleague, Steven Hatfill, who had been wrongly suspected in the case, and paid him $5.8 million.

Responding to reports about Ivins on Friday, the Justice Department said only that "substantial progress has been made in the investigation," but said it may be able to release more information about the case soon.

"We need to know exactly how Mr. Ivins was involved, if he was involved, how this relates to the case and information that so far has been withheld from the American people ought to be provided," Daschle said. "And I think it should be soon."

Former FBI profiler Gregg McCrary told The Early Show, "When you begin to profile the cases you look at all the decisions a offender makes. The choice of weapons, who had access to anthrax, and especially this form of weaponized anthrax."

That, McCrary said, narrowed the search to Fort Detrick (what he called "the right place"), even though the FBI's public investigation of Hatfill led to an embarrassing (and costly) payment.

McCrary thinks the pressure of the investigation may have contributed to Ivins' suicide, but the reasons remain unknown. "Either because he was guilty and didn't want to face that ultimate reality [of five murder charges] or not, we don't know. I think in the days coming it's going to be really important how the government sort of tacitly negotiates the legal issues to make whatever evidence they have available to the public.

"We'd like to know what the evidence really is so we can get a sense of how compelling that evidence may or may not be."

Right now all the relevant grand jury proceedings are under court seal.

"If they declare the case closed that may then pave the way to unseal some of these documents and some of the evidence and we may get the opportunity to get a closer, more detailed look," McCrary said.


Suspicions And Motives

Bennet Bolton, a friend of the first anthrax victim - Robert Stevens - was suspicious about Ivins' suicide and whether the government will disclose what happened.

"I don't think this guy was involved," Bolton said, questioning what led investigators from his dead friend - a tabloid photo editor in southern Florida - to the scientist at the Army's biological warfare labs at Fort Detrick, Maryland.

"What is the connection?" Bolton asked. "What did he do or not do?"

For 35 years, Ivins was one of the government's leading scientists researching vaccines and cures for anthrax exposure. But he also had a long history of homicidal threats, according to papers filed last week in local court by a social worker.

The letters containing anthrax powder were sent while the nation was still traumatized by the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and turned up at congressional offices, newsrooms and elsewhere, leaving a deadly trail through post offices on the way. The powder killed five and sent numerous victims to hospitals and caused near panic in many locations.

Workers in protective garb that made them look like spacemen decontaminated U.S. Capitol buildings after anthrax letters were discovered there. Major postal substations were closed for years. Newsrooms were checked all over after anthrax letters were mailed to offices in Florida and New York.

Several U.S. officials said prosecutors had been focusing on the 62-year-old Ivins and planned to seek an indictment and the death penalty. Authorities were investigating whether Ivins, who had complained about the limits of testing anthrax drugs on animals, had released the toxin to test the treatment on humans.

The officials all discussed the continuing investigation on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media.

Ivins' attorney asserted the scientist's innocence and said he had cooperated with investigators for more than a year.

"We are saddened by his death, and disappointed that we will not have the opportunity to defend his good name and reputation in a court of law," said Paul F. Kemp.

Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital in Maryland. Relatives told The Associated Press that he killed himself. Kemp said his client's death was the result of the government's "relentless pressure of accusation and innuendo."

For more than a decade, Ivins had worked to develop an anthrax vaccine that was effective even in cases where different strains of anthrax were mixed - a situation that made vaccines ineffective - according to federal documents reviewed by The Associated Press.

In 2003, he shared the Decoration for Exceptional Civilian Service for his work on the anthrax vaccine. The award is the highest honor given to Defense Department civilian employees.

Ivins conducted numerous anthrax studies, including one that complained about the limited supply of monkeys available for testing. The study also said animal testing couldn't accurately show how humans would respond to anthrax treatment.

The Fort Detrick laboratory and its specialized scientists for years have been at the center of the FBI's investigation of the anthrax mailings. In late June, the government exonerated Hatfill, whose name has for years had been associated with the attacks. Then-Attorney General John Ashcroft called him a "person of interest" in 2002.

Investigators also had noticed Ivins' unusual behavior at Fort Detrick in the six months following the anthrax mailings. He conducted unauthorized testing for anthrax spores outside containment areas at the infectious disease research unit where he worked, according to an internal report. But the focus stayed on Hatfill.

Many friends and colleagues of Ivins couldn't believe that a popular church music director and Red Cross volunteer was also a killer.

"It would have taken a lot for me to believe he had anything to do with it," one said. "It just wasn't him."

But court documents obtained by CBS News suggest another side of Ivins.

He was scheduled to appear in court this week for a hearing on a restraining order. The allegation: homicidal threats, actions and plans towards his therapist.

Social worker Jean C. Duley filed handwritten court documents last week saying she was preparing to testify before a grand jury.

"Client has a history dating to his graduate days of homicidal threats, plans and actions towards therapists," Duley said, adding that his psychiatrist had described him as homicidal and sociopathic.

Authorities have been watching Ivins for some time. His brother, Tom Ivins, said federal agents questioned the scientist about a year and a half ago. Neighbors said FBI agents in cars with tinted windows conducted surveillance on his home. A colleague, Henry S. Heine, said that over the past year, he and others on their team had testified before a federal grand jury in Washington that has been investigating the anthrax mailings.

[brianbwb-2009]

Ultimately someone was responsible for the anthrax leaving the facility, there must be one person who was the doorkeeper, who is this person? This person is responsible for not making sure protocol was not followed, allowing biotoxins out of the facility.

C''mon CBS, what is the person''s name, where are they now, and how did they allow the substance out?

Skip the small stuff, where does the buck stop, and why is that person not in the news?

[brianbwb-2009]

"homicidal and sociopathic." Definitely voted for Bush.

[whiskyrokkr]

Maybe this guy was a patsy the whole time and the gov. had him snuffed out.

[l8c6]

Oh yeah, they made him kill himself. The feds made him cry and also made him depressed. He was a victim. His feelings were caused by others. B*S !

Can anyone imagine what it would be like if this guy were an environmentalist revealing scientific evidence about the impacts of the agribusiness, oil industry etc. The privately hired goons would have been all over him and if he''d committed suicide well, too bad then.

The years leading up to the great depression have been mostly forgotten by the citizens of this nation but 3 consecutive republican presidents and a republican controlled senate and congress led to it. The history strikingly parallels the events of today.

[l8c6]

Maybe this guy was a patsy the whole time and the gov. had him snuffed out.

Posted by whiskyrokkr

Good point, full skepticism is in order with the current criminal thug enterprise in Washington D.C. There is now evidence that there were recent discussions on how a war with Iran could be provoked. One suggestion among many was to have PT boats designed to look like Iranian ones with U.S. soldiers aboard getting fired upon. Now this may have been half jokingly said since it was noted that "we" couldn''t have americans firing upon americans but the very use of such sick humor is telling of what morally depraved people are running this nation. The main stream media doesn''t touch much of the news. Look what they did with Dan Rather.

[jmurrieta1]

Curiouser and curiouser.

Bush and his surrogates, including McCain, all "hinted" that the anthrax came from Iraq.

How could they have been so completely wrong?

A total lack of desire to know the truth, and a strong desire to trot out any pony that helped the NEOCON''S case for war, are to blame.

And McCain shares Bush''s complete lack of honesty when it comes to pushing his pro-war program.

The "perp" now looks to be a government employee. Acting alone? We''ll never know.

The death is more suspicious than the death of Vince Foster.

Where are the right-wing talking heads on this one?

[samsel3]

Another case of CIA assisted suicide. Years of continuing secrecy, the CIA remains an elite organization with agendas kept beyond the realm the FBI.

[samsel3]

The answer to the Anthrax mystery lies with Bush, Cheney and the CIA strategists who wanted to drum up support for the invasion of Iraq and regime change of seven countries. Putting the American people in fear of terrorism for their dirty game on the world stage was a disgusting choice. Using a genetically fingerprinted US Army military grade Anthrax was not very smart. They never thought anyone would research the materials genetic fingerprint. Money, power, greed for gain, they all need to be indicted for crimes against humanity in the World Court where justice will be served for all.

[lloydbest1]

Let''s not be too convinced Ivins acted on his own initiative. "Homicidal and sociopathic" doesn''t lessen the case that can be made for his being directed by the White House; it strengthens it. After all, "homicidal and sociopathic" accurately describes Richard Cheney and I can very easily see Ivins being manipulated by the Vice President into doing this nasty stuff as a duty "for the greater good".
I also am strongly skeptical of suicide. The present administration has a deserved reputation for overconfidence in its own cleverness and may well have believed it could shield Ivins from any legal consequence of his actions. When the last of the pigeons came home to roost, so to speak, and the FBI was getting dangerously close; I have no trouble believing the "project manager" of this little fiasco decided to cut his losses and had the guy whacked.
That''s kinda out there ain''t it, Lloyd? Well, maybe but let me remind you all that not all conspiracy theories are bullsh-- and overactive imaginations running wild. Ask yourselves why the authorities hounded Steve Hatfill for so long and then had to pay him nearly six million dollars to shut him up. Was it to distract the public from the real culprit who may well have sung like a canary if exposed? Maybe; in fact, probably.

[txgrouch2006]

Ultimately someone was responsible for the anthrax leaving the facility, there must be one person who was the doorkeeper, who is this person?
Posted by brianbwb at 08:28 AM : Aug 02, 2008
------------------
Ultimately someone was responsible for giving the 9/11 pilots a FREE PASS to take flying lessons in this country in the summer of 2000, even though one of them was TURNED IN TO THE FAA FIVE TIMES. Who was that person?

BILL CLINTON took THREE specific and well known actions to CLEAR THE WAY FOR THE 9/11 PILOTS to get licenses to fly jetliners. BILL CLINTON''s administration was warned FIVE TIMES that a dangerous terrorist was trying to get a license to fly a jetliner. BUT HE DID NOTHING.

Ask any pilot you know what would happen if he was turned in FIVE TIMES to the FAA. Ask how fast he would be grounded.

BUT THE FAA DIDN''T EVEN SUSPEND THE 9/11 PILOT''S LICENSE. Who was in charge of making that happen?

BILL CLINTON.

If you believe a Bush conspiracy is credible, then you MUST believe a Clinton conspiracy is credible.

[txgrouch2006]

Another case of CIA assisted suicide. Years of continuing secrecy, the CIA remains an elite organization with agendas kept beyond the realm the FBI.
Posted by samsel3 at 09:14 AM : Aug 02, 2008
------------------------
Little problem you might want to fix - THE CIA DOES NOT PERFORM DOMESTIC OPERATIONS. The CIA couducts only FOREIGN operations.

The organization that performs the domestic operations IS A DIFFERENT AGENCY.

When you can come up with the name of the proper agency, your theory might sound more plausible.

[txgrouch2006]

I8c6 wrote
The years leading up to the great depression have been mostly forgotten by the citizens of this nation but 3 consecutive republican presidents and a republican controlled senate and congress led to it. The history strikingly parallels the events of today.
---------------------
Wow, that''s powerful stuff.

And I heard the president was a Deomcrat when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.

Do you think that''s true?

[txgrouch2006]

I also heard that the ONLY WORLD LEADER WHO ACTUALLY DROPPED A NUCLEAR WEAPON ON AN ENEMY was a Democrat.

Do you think that''s true?

[liberalme]

wicca/rowdy/grouch, typical repug hiding behind pretense, you with so many names, fits right in the the repug deceit.

The current government of this country is so disloyal and totally dishonest---Rove the liar/planner--Cheney the puppet master and Bush the idiot puppet and the rest of the Bush cabal are all directly complicit with the breakdown and defacing of America.

I truly hope someone out there with enough money, will quitely investigate the heII out of these greedy, less than human trash scum bags.

Another "fall guy" for the Bush tribe!

[joker1944-2009]

Geez, it took the government 7 years formulate this implasible scenario to ''solve'' the antrax attacks?

This doesn''t make any sense. The guy would throw away his career and life to try and test his cure? Especially in light of post 9/11 didn''t this guy have a clue as to what the reaction would be?

And, again, the shameless GOP exploited the scare to help drum up support for their war of choice with Iraq:

LETTERMAN: How are things going in Afghanistan now?

MCCAIN: I think we%u2019re doing fine %u2026. I think we%u2019ll do fine. The second phase %u2014 if I could just make one, very quickly %u2014 the second phase is Iraq. There is some indication, and I don%u2019t have the conclusions, but some of this anthrax may %u2014 and I emphasize may %u2014 have come from Iraq.

___

Geez - all Dave did was ask about Afghanistan and McCain launches into the supposed Iraq/Anthrax connection? Disgusting, but par for the course from the fear and smear party.

[txgrouch2006]

liberalme wrote
The current government of this country is so disloyal and totally dishonest
------------------
It''s been that way for SIXTEEN YEARS. I would agree with you if you would stop trying to single out only one political party for the blame.

[scotch41-2009]

txgrouch2006: It sure is true...FDR was in office when Pearl Harbor was attacked....Harry Truman was elected vice president in 1944, Truman became president upon Roosevelt''s sudden death in April 1945. He subsequently authorized the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on Aug. 6 and Aug. 9, 1945.

[txgrouch2006]

Remember that cop who committed suicide during the Tawana Brawley investigation? We were supposed to believe it proved he was guilty. Then it turned out the whole story was a hoax.

This anthrax guy reminds me of that cop.

[scotch41-2009]

"This doesn''''t make any sense. The guy would throw away his career and life to try and test his cure? Especially in light of post 9/11 didn''''t this guy have a clue as to what the reaction would be?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All you have to do is read the letters that were mailed with Anthrax in them to know that the "test the cure" theory is a bunch of krap!!!

[txgrouch2006]

scotch41 wrote
FDR was in office when Pearl Harbor was attacked....Harry Truman was elected vice president in 1944, Truman became president upon Roosevelt''''s sudden death in April 1945. He subsequently authorized the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki on Aug. 6 and Aug. 9, 1945.
--------------
Thanks for confirming that. So does that "prove" Democrats are bad? If bad things happen under Republican presidents, does that "prove" Republicans are bad?

Or do bad things happen no matter who the President is?

Are we so entrenched in our partisan views that there''s no use appealing to logic or reason anymore?

[lloydbest1]

"BILL CLINTON took THREE specific and well known actions to CLEAR THE WAY FOR THE 9/11 PILOTS to get licenses to fly jetliners..." Posted by txgrouch2006 at 09:48 AM : Aug 02, 2008

Well known, huh?. How come I don''t know this? Sources??

"Another case of CIA assisted suicide...." Posted by samsel3 at 09:14 AM : Aug 02, 2008
"Little problem you might want to fix - THE CIA DOES NOT PERFORM DOMESTIC OPERATIONS. The CIA couducts only FOREIGN operations." Posted by txgrouch2006 at 09:49 AM : Aug 02, 2008

Yeah, RIGHT. Is that the truth? Then tell me a lie, I want to hear the difference.

"I8c6 wrote
The years leading up to the great depression...but 3 consecutive republican presidents and a republican controlled senate and congress led to it. The history strikingly parallels the events of today.
"Wow, that''s powerful stuff.
And I heard the president was a Deomcrat when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Do you think that''s true?" Posted by txgrouch2006 at 09:51 AM : Aug 02, 2008

And the two are related.....how?

"I also heard that the ONLY WORLD LEADER WHO ACTUALLY DROPPED A NUCLEAR WEAPON ON AN ENEMY was a Democrat.
Do you think that''''s true?" Posted by txgrouch2006 at 09:52 AM : Aug 02, 2008

Yup, you nailed it. One out of four ain''t too bad when you consider the administration''s record for doing the right thing is abysmally worse.

[samsel3]

One of the most controversial issues surrounding Project MK-ULTRA involved the mysterious death of Dr. Frank Olson, a scientist at Fort Detrick, Maryland, where many of these studies were conducted. According to the government''s version of events, as part of the MK-ULTRA experiments, Olson was dosed with LSD without his knowledge, and he suffered severe paranoia and a nervous breakdown. The CIA sent him to New York to see one of their psychiatrists, who recommended that Olson be placed into a mental institution for recovery. On his last night in New York, Olson allegedly threw himself out his hotel room window, plunging to his death. Skeptics of this story argue that his death may be a murder, pointing to the questionable nature of the research Olson was involved with.[citation needed]. A grand jury inquiry of Olson''s death was approved on April 27,1996 and on the same day former CIA chief William disappeared and his remains were found in a lake. [1]Wikepedia CIA activities in the USA.

[txgrouch2006]

"This doesn''''''''t make any sense. The guy would throw away his career and life to try and test his cure? Especially in light of post 9/11 didn''''''''t this guy have a clue as to what the reaction would be?"
-------------
He was a smart guy with a long history of being emotionally imbalanced. A classic candidate to be someone''s patsy. Make him the focus of an investigation, and he goes off the deep end.

Like the cop who killed himself during the Tawana Brawley hoax. Or the Enron exec who killed himself, even though he was the only one NOT guilty of perpetrating the scam, he fought against it.

Now that he''s dead, we may never know the truth.

[joker1944-2009]

All you have to do is read the letters that were mailed with Anthrax in them to know that the "test the cure" theory is a bunch of krap!!!

Posted by scotch41 at 10:21 AM : Aug 02, 2008

Is anyone in the ''librul'' media going to call McCain out for trying to link Iraq to the attacks?

Ya gotta love the standard posthumous smear on Irvins. Who is this woman he supposedly stalked? Who is this social worker who filed his ''long history of homicidal threats.'' Right - and it was just last week huh?

[samsel3]

Another case of CIA assisted suicide. Years of continuing secrecy, the CIA remains an elite organization with agendas kept beyond the realm of the FBI.

The answer to the Anthrax mystery lies with Bush, Cheney and the CIA strategists who wanted to drum up support for the invasion and regime change of seven countries. Putting the American people in fear of terrorism for their dirty game on the world stage was a disgusting choice. Using a genetically fingerprinted US Army military grade Anthrax was not very smart. They never thought anyone would research the materials genetic fingerprint. Money, power, greed for gain, they all need to be indicted for crimes against humanity in the World Court where justice will be served for all.

[txgrouch2006]

"BILL CLINTON took THREE specific and well known actions to CLEAR THE WAY FOR THE 9/11 PILOTS to get licenses to fly jetliners..." Posted by txgrouch2006 at 09:48 AM : Aug 02, 2008

Well known, huh?. How come I don''''t know this? Sources?? -- LoydBest1
---------------
You do, you just never had the puzzle put together for you.

Three items:
1: BALANCE THE BUDGET - cut the funding for ALL federal agencies, INCLUDING THE FAA, THE AGENCY HAVING THE MOST TO DO WITH STOPPING 9/11.
2: RACIAL PROFILING - prohibit federal agencies from sharing information, based on concern that individuals might be targeted for investigation based on race or national origin. My flight instructor''s first words were "WHAT''S WITH ALL THESE ARAB GUYS...?" But the FAA can not share this information with the FBI.
3: EXECUTIVE ORDER TO CREATE NEW TOP PRIORITY FOR THE FAA - by executive order, Bill Clinton ORDERED the FAA to make reducing airline flight delays its TOP PRIORITY. The FAA was already understaffed to carry out its old priorities, FLIGHT SAFETY AND AIRPORT SECURITY. When they get a new top priority, what happens to the old ones?

THE PATH IS NOW CLEAR FOR THE 9/11 PILOTS TO OPERATE FREELY.

[txgrouch2006]

On the morning of 9/11/2001, several of the hijackers were detained briefly by airport security because their names appeared on a list of possible terrorists. But security agents rushed the hijackers onto the waiting plane, because they were afraid of being disciplined for CAUSING A FLIGHT DELAY.

Thank Bill Clinton for issuing the EXECUTIVE ORDER that caused airport security to RUSH THE 9/11 HIJACKERS ONTO THE PLANE.

[joker1944-2009]

Posted by txgrouch2006 at 10:38 AM : Aug 02, 2008

So...your ''proof'' that Clinton was involved in the 9/11 attacks consists of:

A balanced budget
A ceasing of government sponsored racist activities
A demand to make airlines run on time.

Wow. That could be the looniest, most tortured logic I have read. Ever. And seeing as I''ve been on these boards for years, that''s quite an accomplishment. Bravo, I guess.

Ok, but I''ll still play. Tell me your theory as to WHY Bill Clinton would do this? What is in it for him?

[samsel3]

Posted by txgrouch2006 at 10:44 AM : Aug 02, 2008

Answer to your post: The CIA does conduct some domestic operations .........Presto Project MK-ULTRA

[johngoodnews]

What''s disturbing about all of this is the fact that there are so many folks whose reaction is that Dr. Ivins is a scapegoat.

[txgrouch2006]

joker1944 joked
That could be the looniest, most tortured logic I have read.
--------------
Projection. Look it up. It''s you.

You read what I wrote. Maybe you think there''s something funny about the worst terrorist attack in history.

Go ahead, make jokes about 9/11 all you want. That SAYS IT ALL about you.

[txgrouch2006]

What''''s disturbing about all of this is the fact that there are so many folks whose reaction is that Dr. Ivins is a scapegoat.
Posted by johngoodnews at 10:56 AM : Aug 02, 2008
--------------
I wouldn''t say he''s DEFINITELY a scapegoat or a patsy.

I''m just saying his suicide proves NOTHING either way.

But now we may never know the truth.

[sistatee-2009]

For 35 years, Ivins was one of the government''s leading scientists researching vaccines and cures for anthrax exposure. But he also had a long history of homicidal threats....

A classic example of your government, looking out for you.

[samsel3]

A case in point:

"One of the most controversial issues surrounding Project MK-ULTRA involved the mysterious death of Dr. Frank Olson, a scientist at Fort Detrick, Maryland, where many of these studies were conducted. According to the government''''''''s version of events, as part of the MK-ULTRA experiments, Olson was dosed with LSD without his knowledge, and he suffered severe paranoia and a nervous breakdown. The CIA sent him to New York to see one of their psychiatrists, who recommended that Olson be placed into a mental institution for recovery. On his last night in New York, Olson allegedly threw himself out his hotel room window, plunging to his death. Skeptics of this story argue that his death may be a murder, pointing to the questionable nature of the research Olson was involved with. A grand jury inquiry of Olson''s death was approved on April 27,1996 and on the same day former CIA chief William disappeared and his remains were found in a lake." Wikepedia CIA activities in the USA.

[navyretired2]

"The answer to the Anthrax mystery lies with Bush, Cheney and the CIA strategists who wanted to drum up support for the invasion and regime change of seven countries. Putting the American people in fear of terrorism for their dirty game on the world stage was a disgusting choice. Using a genetically fingerprinted US Army military grade Anthrax was not very smart. They never thought anyone would research the materials genetic fingerprint. Money, power, greed for gain, they all need to be indicted for crimes against humanity in the World Court where justice will be served for all.

Posted by samsel3 at 10:34 AM : Aug 02, 2008"

Well, the problem with that is, you need this little thing called "proof" to convict them of this. I don''t think anybody will find any...they haven''t yet.

[joker1944-2009]

Go ahead, make jokes about 9/11 all you want. That SAYS IT ALL about you.

Posted by txgrouch2006 at 10:57 AM : Aug 02, 2008

Except that I didn''t. Anyone who reads my response can plainly see that. Boy, talk about ''projection.''

Look, if you really believe this then you should have an answer to this simple question: why?

When a crime is committed, there is generally a motive. For your theory to hold water, certainly when it comes to such a complex, multi-layed plan such as 9/11, it must have that key ingredient.

Now, instead of making baseless personal attacks on me you could enlighten us with your idea as to WHY Clinton would do this? What did it accomplish? How did he gain by it? As far as I can tell the only real benefactor was the Bush administration and the GOP.

[samsel3]

Well, the problem with that is, you need this little thing called "proof" to convict them of this. I don''t think anybody will find any...they haven''t yet.


Posted by NavyRetired2 at 11:16 AM : Aug 02, 2008

The same scenario with MK-ULTRA people about to testify and bang dead meat.........

[rudy654-2009]

That could be the looniest, most tortured logic I have read.
***************

He is always making stupid comments. He has a hate agenda.

[joker1944-2009]

He is always making stupid comments. He has a hate agenda.

Posted by rudy654 at 12:07 PM : Aug 02, 2008

Well, I''ll give almost anyone the chance to make their case. At least he can put together a coherent sentence, which is a lot more than I can for several of the more militant rightwing loonies that post here.

If he did formulate this crackpot conspiracy on his own, at least he is engaging his brain. Which, again, is a lot more than be said of many of his rightwing bretheren.

[buttonjockey]

: Well, the problem with that is, you need this little thing called "proof" to
: convict them of this. I don''''t think anybody will find any...they haven''''t yet.

Yes, but that cuts both ways. Now that Ivins is dead, How can his innocence be proven? Isn''t it convenient that he can be forever presumed as the anthrax mailer and even without proof, the wind will be out of the sails to investigate this any further.

This case stinks of unanswered questions:

1. Why would he do it?
2. If he had any questionable psychological makeup, why would the government allow him into an incredibly sensitive position? You think they don''t screen intensely? I know better!
3. What''s with the "wanted by the FBI" hooplah? They knew where to find him, just needed a warrant! Oh, unless he was not really wanted, just a person of interest.
4. There can only be a handful of people worldwide who had access to that anthrax. Why has it taken so long to go through that list? This should have been an easy case! Unless, of course, someone is not so intent on finding the real culprit.
5. This "suicide" makes me think of Vince Foster.
6. How about the ridiculous idea that Ivins was mailing anthrax as some way to test his vaccine? Jesus, you''ve got to do better than that!
7. Why was Tom Daschle targeted? Check out his politics and stance on renewable energy for a couple interesting questions. The plot thickens!

I don''t have the answers, but open your eyes, people! This is not as it seems!

[samsel3]

Posted by nrgmizer at 12:24 PM : Aug 02, 2008
Impeachment is not an option, the Democrats do not have enough votes. You need 2/3 majority and you won''t find Republicans voting against their fearless leader, the decider, the shrub, Bush........

[samsel3]

The plot thickens!

I don''t have the answers, but open your eyes, people! This is not as it seems!

Posted by buttonjockey at 12:28 PM : Aug 02, 2008

Dr. Ivins joins another Fort Detrick Alumni, Dr. Frank Olson. The dead cannot speak and incriminate their perpetrators.

[samsel3]

Saudis did the 9-11 attacks.

Posted by george2221 at 12:40 PM : Aug 02, 2008

Bin Laden did 911...

Bush did Iraq after meetings with Saudi freinds at Walker Point in Maine. Saudis & Saddam were enemies in the oil business........

[samsel3]

The answer to the Anthrax mystery lies with Bush, Cheney and the CIA strategists who wanted to drum up support for the invasion and regime change of Iraq and six other countries. Putting the American people in fear of terrorism for their dirty game on the world stage was a disgusting choice. Using a genetically fingerprinted US Army military grade Anthrax was not very smart. They never thought anyone would research the materials genetic fingerprint. Money, power, greed for gain, they all need to be indicted for crimes against humanity in the World Court where justice will be served for all.

[samsel3]

Now they want us to invade Iran preemptively over nuclear concerns

Posted by george2221 at 12:57 PM : Aug 02, 2008

The Saudis & Big Oil wanted Saddam eliminated. Saddam was the third largest supplier of oil on the planet.
He was depressing world oil prices by selling cheap.
This was in retaliation for sanctions after Desert Storm

[samsel3]

On January 26, 1998 in a letter to the President the PNAC asked Clinton to invade Iraq and get rid of Saddam Hussein. Clinton refused their request and they got even. George W. Bush took their agenda and got it done...........Mission Accomplished

[samsel3]

Amy Goodman''s interview with General Wesley Clark. Clark stated he viewed a defense department memo that described how the U.S. was going to take out seven countries in five years...."starting with Iraq,then Syria and Lebanon, then Libya,then Somalia and Sudan, and back to Iran."


And the extermination continues............

[samsel3]

Now they want us to invade Iran preemptively over nuclear concerns

Posted by george2221 at 12:57 PM : Aug 02, 2008

Nothing has changed on Iran. The administrations interest in Iran & nukes is a smoke screen for their real agenda. Their true interests are Cheney''s energy policy. Part of that policy is the The Caspian Sea pipeline which will go through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan,Pakistan, to the gulf of Oman and on to India & Nepal.It will be cheaper to construct if they can go through Iran, but regime change is necessary first.

The Caspian sea area holds one third of the world''s oil and south asian oil markets are their target market. This pipeline was also the reason for the Afghanistan invasion. Cheney''s energy policy is the root of all these middle east wars, a federal court judge sealed all documents associated with it for the administration. More troops are needed in Afghanistan to protect the contractors building the pipeline.

Iran stands in the way of total control of global oil now with sales of oil to China''s Sinopec Oil,deal signed Dec.10,2007. Months ago China said there would be dire consequences if the US interfered with there direct oil contracts with Iran. Both parties in the Congress should be very concerned with China''s growing war machine and need for oil. They are the real threat & the administration doesn''t care they are in control ! All that matters to them is BIG OIL and their corporate stock portfolios .

[samsel3]

Another case of CIA assisted suicide.......Dr. Ivins joins another Fort Detrick Alumni, Dr. Frank Olson. The dead cannot speak and incriminate their perpetrators.

[andor3]

glad this story is getting more attention. something just does not add up here.