House Committee Hears The "I-Word"

House Members Try To Refrain From Uttering "Impeachment" In Hearing On Bush Use Of Power

(CBS/AP)  It was a forum at which the “I-word” was not to be spoken but was anyway.

The House Judiciary Committee convened a hearing to address an impeachment resolution brought against President Bush by Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, although members of the committee went to great pains to insist the purpose of the meeting was not to vote to remove Mr. Bush from office.

Instead, the hearing was aimed at the president’s use or misuse of executive powers, with constitutional and legal experts invited to weigh in on whether the American system of check and balances has been undermined by the Executive Branch.

But critics of Mr. Bush's policies couldn't pass up the chance to charge the president with a long list of impeachable "high crimes and misdemeanors."

Leading the way was Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, the former Democratic presidential candidate who has brought repeated impeachment resolutions on the House floor against the president and Vice President Cheney.

"The decision before us is whether to honor our oath as Members of Congress to support and defend the Constitution that has been trampled time and again over the last seven years," Kucinich testified.

Kucinich's resolution points to the justifications given by the White House for Congress to pass legislation authorizing the President's discretion for leading the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Kucinich noted that, contrary to claims made by President Bush and other administration officials, Iraq did not possess a means or inclination to threaten or attack the United States, did not support al Qaeda, and was not developing weapons of mass destruction.

"The decision before us is whether Congress will endorse with its silence the methods used to take us into the Iraq war," Kucinich said. "The decision before us is whether to demand accountability for one of the gravest injustices imaginable.

"The decision before us is whether Congress will stand up to tell future Presidents that America has seen the last of these injustices, not the first."

The House Democratic leadership, with no stomach for an impeachment battle in the waning months of Bush's presidency, had steered Kucinich's resolutions to the Judiciary Committee where they hoped it would quietly fade away. But Friday's hearing gave Kucinich and his allies an opportunity to air their views.

"To the regret of many, this is not an impeachment hearing," said committee chairman John Conyers, D-Mich., pointing out the less incendiary title of the event, "Executive Power and its Constitutional Limitations."

Still, Conyers noted that his panel had pursued many issues that Kucinich and others regard as impeachable offenses by the Bush administration, including manipulating intelligence about Iraq and its potential threat to the United States; overstepping the law with regard to detention and rendition; authorizing the use of torture; politicizing the Justice Department and retaliating against administration critics, as in the outing of former CIA agent Valerie Plame.

But in keeping with the gingerly motives of the hearing - like turning on a light while wearing dark glasses - the committee reminded lawmakers and those testifying that House rules prohibit "personal abuse, innuendo or ridicule of the president." The House Rules and Manual points out that suggestions of mendacity, or accusations of hypocrisy, demagoguery or deception were out of order.

In other words, no one could accuse the president of committing high crimes or misdemeanors, if they weren’t actually voting on whether he committed high crimes or misdemeanors.

Kucinich was circumspect: "The rules of the House prevent me or any witness from utilizing familiar terms. But we can put two-and-two together in our minds."

Former Los Angeles County Prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi, known for his prosecution of Charles Manson in 1970, acknowledged that "I am forbidden from accusing him of a crime, or even any dishonorable conduct" under House rules.

But nonetheless he outlined some of the central accusations made in his bestselling book, "The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder" (Vanguard Press), which features what he calls evidence "that proves, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Bush administration officials took this nation to war in Iraq under false pretenses, and therefore, under the law, they are guilty of murder for the deaths of over 4,000 young American soldiers who have died so far in Iraq fighting their war.

"I am fully aware that the charge I have just made is an extremely serious one. But let me tell you that at this stage of my career I don’t have time for fanciful reveries," Bugliosi said.

And there apparently was nothing in House rules preventing opinions, as when Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., asserted that Mr. Bush was "the worst president that our nation has ever suffered."

The panel included former Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman, D-N.Y., who was on the committee when it initiated impeachment hearings against President Richard Nixon.

Also testifying was former Congressman Bob Barr of Georgia, who helped lead the Republicans' impeachment fight against President Bill Clinton. Barr, who is running as the Libertarian Party candidate for president,s aid that "Neither the Bill of Rights nor the separation of powers are self-enforcing documents or principles."

"The separation of powers, with the checks and balances expected to naturally follow, is the bedrock foundation of American constitutional government. It is a foundation clearly in danger of crumbling."

Republicans, clearly in the minority at the hearing, expressed suspicion at Democratic motives. Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Calif., called it "impeachment lite," where people were given free rein to impugn Mr. Bush but not to impeach him.

"It seems that we are hosting an anger management class," said Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, the committee's senior Republican. "This hearing will not cause us to impeach the president; it will only serve to impeach Congress's credibility."

"I am really astonished at the mood in this room," commented one witness, George Mason University School of Law professor Jeremy Rabkin.

"The tone of these deliberations is slightly demented," Rabkin said. "You should all remind yourselves that the rest of the country is not necessarily in this same bubble in which people think it is reasonable to describe the president as if he were Caligula."

Rep. Steve King of Iowa challenged Mr. Bush’s critics for saying he lied during his 2003 State of the Union Address, when he spoke the infamous “16 words” claiming that Saddam Hussein had sought weapons-grade uranium from Niger. Mr. Bush and other officials made that claim despite investigations from weapons experts that determined such reports were false.

King pointed to a recent article about a secret effort to remove older uranium yellow cake from Iraq, and alluded that it represented a “significant” amount that supported Mr. Bush’s claim, ignoring the fact that the uranium dated from the 1991 Persian Gulf War and had long been known to U.N. weapons inspectors.

Meanwhile, hundreds of activists spilled out of the committee room and lined the hallways outside. T-shirts reading "Arrest Bush" and "Veterans for Impeachment" illustrated the sentiments of many.

[wogerwabbit]

Impeachment is a waste of time. Let''s get to the war crimes tribunals.

[txgrouch2006]

Bill Clinton used issued exectuive orders to prevent federal agencies from sharing information, so the FAA could not share information with the FBI about the 9/11 pilot who was turned in FIVE TIMES to the FAA by flying schools reporting that he was not qualified to hold the commercial license he ALREADY HAD.

Bill Clinton issued an executive order making airline flight delays the TOP PRIORITY of the FAA. The FAA''s funding had already been cut to "balance he budget," so they were already short-staffed to carry out their old top priorities of AIRLINE SAFETY AND AIRPORT SECURITY. Now that they had a new top priority, what do you think happened to the old top priorities???

In view of the HIGHLY FORSEEABLE danger to our national security, which left the door open for the 9/11 attack, CLINTON SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM OFFICE AND HIS RECKLESS EXECUTIVE ORDERS RESCINDED.

But all anyone wants to do is bash Bush.

Ann Coulter is right - Republicans can do no right, and Democrats can DO NO WRONG, according to the popular opinion.

[txgrouch2006]

maxify55 wrote
Dennis, you are a punk.
-----------------
Just look at his photo with the news item. I can see it. IT SHOWS!

[txgrouch2006]

Lamar Smith: "This hearing will not cause us to impeach the president; it will only serve to impeach Congress''s credibility."
-----------------
But then, since when does credibilty matter in politics anymore.

If you''re a Democrat, you can drown a girl in your car and EVERYBODY STILL LOVES YOU.

[hotpaulie]

Bush will pay for his crimes against humanity...
What will impeachment do...we are almost done with him...

[sistatee-2009]

Two things that won''t happen:
1. Congress impeaching Bush.
2. Bush removing his head from his _ss.

[txgrouch2006]

hotpaulie wrote
Bush will pay for his crimes against humanity...
---------------
Yah, right after Bill Clinton hangs like Saddam for his direct, active, and knowing involvement in the planning for the 9/11 attack.

You can have your conspiracy theory, I''ll have mine.

[txgrouch2006]

Sista Tee wrote
Two things that won''''t happen:
1. Congress impeaching Bush.
2. Bush removing his head from his _ss.
----------------
So true. So true.

I''ll be glad when this election is over and we won''t have Bush to kick around anymore.

My foot is getting sore.

[irliberal]

Naw, don''t waste the taxpayer''s dollars on impeachment.

Easier to snag em and bag em after Bush/Cheny are out of office.

I hear their iron manacles are being forged right now.

[wogerwabbit]

hey txgrouch2006... we''re talking about the present and you keep bringing up old and boring news. Switch to de-caf.

[rushlimpdrug]

If you''''re a Democrat, you can drown a girl in your car and EVERYBODY STILL LOVES YOU.
Posted by txgrouch2006 at 10:14 AM


did someone ppizzz in your breakfast?

You need to chill a little.

To wake up with so much hate is not healthy.

[boatdocster]

If you''''''''re a Democrat, you can drown a girl in your car and EVERYBODY STILL LOVES YOU.
Posted by txgrouch2006 at 10:14 AM

And if you are a GOP person you can kill hundreds of thousands, spend billions and trillions and get the same result. Which one is the better deal?

[txgrouch2006]

WogerWabbit wote
we''''re talking about the present and you keep bringing up old and boring news.
-----------
Those who want to ignore the past are those who DON''T WANT TO PAY FOR IT.

[txgrouch2006]

HERE''S MY SOLUTION.

Go to www.congress.org . Enter your ZIP+4 to get a list of YOUR elected representatives.

CLICK ON EACH NAME, and check the rep''s bio.

VOTE AGAINST anyone who was born 1946-1957.

CLEAN OUT THE BABY BOOMERS. SIXTEEN YEARS OF BABY BOOMER GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN A DISASTER.

SIXTEEN YEARS IS ENOUGH!

BTW, good morning libtards. It''s nice to see you''re finally out of bed, and a few of you are NOT too hung over to post something.

[txgrouch2006]

boatdocster wrote
if you are a GOP person you can kill hundreds of thousands, spend billions and trillions
-----------------
Zzzzzzzz...

Find some new material. Yours is getting stale.

[txgrouch2006]

WogerWabbit, rushlimpdrug, boatdocster, GOOD MORNING!!

LOL! Three libtard posts in a row! Looks like THAT WOKE YOU UP!!! Har, har...

[txlakeside]

IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY!

Once impeached they then should be tried for war crimes in accordance with the Geneva Convention for torture. Then they should be tried for crimes against the American people for for bastardizing the American Constitution and issuing no bid contracts to their friends and buddies for the war in Iraq!

And we should have a law against stupidity then the "Dumb as Dirt" Shrub would have already been in jail!

All the racist''s are lieing about Obama and that will backfire as more white males like myself will see thru the lies and vote "against" the repub lie and corruption machine!

[hotpaulie]

"Those who want to ignore the past are those who don''t want to pay for it" txgrouch2006

For whatever reason, this comment by you makes me think of Bush...or this whole administration for that matter. Also, you tried to link Clinton with 9/11...The republicans were in charge of the house, senate, and presidency when this occurred...nice try. Your conspiracy theories have huge holes in them.

[tawpdawg111]

"The tone of these deliberations is slightly demented," Rabkin said. "You should all remind yourselves that the rest of the country is not necessarily in this same bubble in which people think it is reasonable to describe the president as if he were Caligula."
****************************************

YES WE ARE!

[hotpaulie]

dowell100 - "Bush may not be as bad.." I don''t think Bush is a bad person - just an idiot. Cheney and the group around him are the evil and corrupt masterminds of his agenda. Bush isn''t smart enough to be bad. But his choices will lead him to be prosecuted for war crimes.

[tawpdawg111]

"The tone of these deliberations is slightly demented," Rabkin said. "You should all remind yourselves that the rest of the country is not necessarily in this same bubble in which people think it is reasonable to describe the president as if he were Caligula."
**************************************

Since the average Joe doesn''t know who Caligula was, why not use a more familiar tyrant.....Hitler, perhaps.

[impeach__w]

THESE COWARDS ARE AFRAID TO EVEN SAY IT- IMPEACHMENT.

IT''S THE LAW

[nextgenman]

Posted by krisinal at 11:07 AM : Jul 26, 2008
-------

Yawn.

[dbstevens]

I''m very glad to see that the people in this hearing are publicly accusing Bush of what any INTELLIGENT American citizen has been able to see clearly for many years.

[vnveteran72]

These Neocon Criminals have been supported by Criminals in the Democratic Party who have either Rubber-Stamped their Treasonous Subversions of the Constitution and Rule of Law, or refused to uphold their Oaths of Office and Act Immediately to stop them.
Vote out ALL these Incumbents who sanctioned Treason, and replace them with an Honest Candidate who is not Owned by Criminal Corporate Lobbyists on K-Street.
Let them serve OUR interests for a period of no more than 2 Terms, then replace them again.
Politicians need to be changed frequently, just like Diapers, and for the same reasons.
Remove the Scumbags this November people.
It''s our ONLY Hope........

[rosieod4prez]

Dennis Kucinich - the same nut that want to strengthen gun controls (why not enforce the ones there are?), eliminate the Patriot act (let the jihadists go wild!), Protecting a woman''s right to choose while decreasing the number of abortions performed in the U.S.(just a little like f_cking for virginity), End the War on Drugs (now there''s a telling story), and legalize pot.


Ya gotta wonder what he''s been smoking (not).




The dems shoulda nominated...

[vnveteran72]

Hitler? Pleeeze. You are as ignorant of history as those who don''''t know who Caligula was.

The best comparison historically for Bush would be Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln was hated by Southerners for the war, and hated by northern blacks because the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the South. He was hated by his own Republican Party because of his suspension of Civil Liberties during the war, something people hate Bush for now.

Lincoln''''s genius, and his status as an American hero, did not come for about 40 years after they murdered him.








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by dowell100 at 11:14 AM : Jul 26, 2008
+ report abuse

The Bush Family ties to Hitler are part of History, and where they made their Fortune. The Little Drunken Crackheaded AWOL/Deserter isn''t worthy to lick Lincoln''s left Nutt.

[txgrouch2006]

dowell100 wrote
This is sour grapes on the part of Democrats. They are just getting back for the Bill Clinton humiliation.... the Democrats are acting like the mad dogs with rabies in all this.
---------------
Smells like Watergate, doesn''t it.

Watergate was the Dems trying desperately to even things up after Chappaquiddick. Teddy got them dirty, so they had to find some way - ANY WAY - to dirty up the Republicans to counteract the damage.

Note how Teddy got to PICK THE WATERGATE PROSECUTOR. Teddy skewered Nixon for acting like he was "above the law." And there was Teddy again defending Clinton during the Lewinsky flap. When Teddy himself acted "above the law" after Chappaquiddick.

DOES THAT PAINT THE PICTURE???

[txgrouch2006]

krisinal wrote
WHAT DEMS/PUBLIC/CONGRESS DOESN''''T GET/REMEMBER IS THE SADDAM''''S MILITARY WAS FIRING ANTI-AIR MISSLES AND ARTILLERY AT US/ALLIED AIRCRAFT ENFORCING THE CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT WHICH ENDED THE 1991 GULF WAR.
------------------
Stop confusing them with facts. Politics has nothing to do with facts.

[yellow651]

I would suggest that the activists are hardly representative of the "many." Let''s see, President Bush made a statement based on a generally accepted view held by many republicans and democrats at the time(the documentation of those views is everywhere for those not too lazy to find them)and that is lying. However, a sitting president having a sexual relationship with an intern (an act that would cost any executive in America his job -- and a clear violation of the sexual harasment statutes)and then lying about it under oath, is a vast right-wing conspiracy. I think there are groups in this country that need a little quiet time. Dennis the Menace and his friends in the caucus need to go to their rooms. The rest of us are smart enough to figure this out -- any question why congress has such low ratings?

[txgrouch2006]

brucestevens wrote
what any INTELLIGENT American citizen has been able to see clearly for many years.
------------
Where were all those "INTELLIGENT Americans" during the Clinton years???

Clinton will hang like Saddam if Americans are as intelligent as you say.

[dnsallday]

We have a CRIME FAMILY in the Administration.
They are extortionists and If we do not hold them accountable, soon, even our little bubbles that currently give us an illusion of freedom will be busted!

Are Americans really so lifeless and beaten down inside that we don''t have the will to stand up and fight for our own rights in this country? Is This what we are willing to hand down to future generations? The notion that we should accept whatever scraps the people in power throw off the back of a truck to us, to keep us occupied and off their back ends?

[txgrouch2006]

vnveteran72 wrote
The Bush Family ties to Hitler are part of History
------------------
Yawwwnnn!!! This argument is so 2001.

The Kennedy family ties to Hitler are well known. While Joe Kennedy was ambassador to England, he advocated that the USA should form an alliance with Nazi Germany because Hitler''s military has grown so strong as to be invincible (IN VIOLATION OF THE TREATY THAT ENDED WWI, BTW).

Other fun facts about Joe - he was one of the biggest Wall Street crooks in history in the 1920''s, but he pulled out his billions just BEFORE the Crash. So when FDR established the SEC to prevent such activities from happening again HE PICKED JOE KENNEDY TO BE THE FIRST HEAD OF THE SEC!!!

Let''s see how long it takes them to delete THIS post...

[vnveteran72]

The Neocon Cheerleaders and Apologists LOVE their Little 59 IQ Criminal. They''ll Defend him till he''s drug from his Bunker in Paraguay by War Crimes Police and Tried, Sentenced, and Hung. It was much the same with the Nazis, who still to this day sing his Praises.
The Law must be enforced. Shrub and Darth are Guilty.
Hang them by the Neck until Dead.

[txgrouch2006]

vnveteran72 wrote
Hang them by the Neck until Dead.
----------------
LOL! You took MY idea???

[dnsallday]

dowell100 wrote
This is sour grapes on the part of Democrats
***************************************************
txgrouch2006
Watergate was the Dems trying desperately to even things up
******************************************************* FYI: Once upon a time, back in the days of Watergate, there were many Respectable and Resbonsible Republicans who called for the impeachment of Nixon.
That was before Karl Rove promised them that Republicans could have eternal power and domination over all Americans and beyond if they would fall into lockstep with his ideas and the talking points he would provide to all who would work to further his agenda.
In their lust for power, Republicons sold their souls.

[txgrouch2006]

truthmatterz mislead
We have a CRIME FAMILY in the Administration.
-------------------
The Kennedy family is a crime family. Joe Kennedy was the Al Capone of the East Coast. He ran the liquor smuggling during the Prohibition.

Another fun fact about FDR: when FDR signed the Amendment that repealed the Prohibition, just hours later he was photographed celebrating with a martini in the White House. HOW DID HE GET THE HOOCH IN SUCH A HURRY???

Did his pal, JOE KENNEDY, help him out???

[timdgrim]

txgrouch2006 spews much, thinks little.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by dowell100
**********************
You got that right! Probably a little Gen X Boy!

[vnveteran72]

---------
Well, I know John Wilkes Booth felt the same way about Lincoln as you do Bush.

Henry Ford loved Hitler and did big business with him. Are you going to attack all Ford car owners for that.

Admit it, you''''re just in a rant and have lost the power of reason.






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by dowell100 at 11:24 AM : Jul 26, 2008
+ report abuse

The Bush Family didn''t stop acting as Agents for Hitler until ORDERED by the US Government to do so, as we were at War with them. Face it. Your Hero is a Traitor and War Criminal Mass Murderer, and his motivation was $Money$.

[txgrouch2006]

truthmatterz earned an LOL with
Karl Rove promised them that Republicans could have eternal power and domination over all Americans and beyond if they would fall into lockstep
-----------------------
LOL! You''re sure hyped up now!!! HOO - EEE! Yah, those goose-stepping Republicans took over! HAR, HAR!!

[txgrouch2006]

timdgrim guessed
Probably a little Gen X Boy!
--------------------
HAR, HAR! And other libtards think I''m a Depression Baby. LOL!

[txgrouch2006]

vnveteran72 wrote
The Bush Family didn''''t stop acting as Agents for Hitler until ORDERED by the US Government to do so, as we were at War with them.
-----------------------
The youthful JFK was SLEEPING WITH A FEMALE NAZI SPY during the war. His father, Joe, discovered the affiar and told him to stop. HE DIDN''T. Joe put a microphone in JFK''s bedroom and recorded their encounters. JFK found the microphone, and HE KEPT DOING IT WITH THE NAZI ANYWAY.

Later, when JFK was president, J. Edgar Hoover got a copy of the Nazi affair tapes, and he played them for JFK.

WHAT FUN THOSE KENNEDYS, HUH!

[vnveteran72]

New documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis'' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler''s rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

Remarkably, little of Bush''s dealings with Germany has received public scrutiny, partly because of the secret status of the documentation involving him. But now the multibillion dollar legal action for damages by two Holocaust survivors against the Bush family, and the imminent publication of three books on the subject are threatening to make Prescott Bush''s business history an uncomfortable issue for his grandson, George W..

Neocon Nazis LOVE their Little Drunken 59IQ Fuhrer.....

[chimpyout]

At this point, it''s probably counterproductive and a waste of time to nail Coke Monkey with impeachment. If we get a favorable balance in the next congress (or even if we don''t), we can settle accounts with him via court actions till doomsday. Same for his minions.
The danger of a McCain presidency is not so much the slow reactions of a senior and lack of ideas, it''s that the rodents now deserting the sinking USS Shrub will find a new refuge at enormous taxpayer expense and continued risk to the country.

[txgrouch2006]

vnveteran72 wrote
the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.
-------------
Remind me again - HOW did Joe Kennedy make the Kennedy family fortune and set up its political dynasty?

Please refresh my memory.

[txgrouch2006]

Bottom line THEY''RE ALL CROOKS.

Anyone who singles out Republicans as if they''re the only crooks is a PARTSIAN TROLL.

[wdrussell1]

vnveteran72 if you are still here. Google spiritone and click on the second link down called nazi hydra.

[vnveteran72]

-------------
Remind me again - HOW did Joe Kennedy make the Kennedy family fortune and set up its political dynasty?

Please refresh my memory.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by txgrouch2006 at 11:50 AM : Jul 26, 2008
+ report abuse

Your Defense of a War Criminal President by pointing out Criminal Activity by another Family Political Dynasty doesn''t do too much to advance either your argument or agenda. ALL Criminals should be removed from our Government, regardless of Party.
Yours are by far the Worst of the Worst.

[txgrouch2006]

WDrussel1 wrote
Google spiritone and click on the second link down called nazi hydra.
----------------
I just checked it. WHERE DOES IT MENTION JOE KENNEDY??? WHERE DOES IT MENTION JFK''S AFFAIR WITH THE NAZI SPY???

Gosh, do you suppose this site is a little bit PARTISAN???

[txgrouch2006]

WDrussel1 wrote
Google spiritone and click on the second link down called nazi hydra.
----------------
I just checked it. WHERE DOES IT MENTION JOE KENNEDY??? WHERE DOES IT MENTION JFK''S AFFAIR WITH THE NAZI SPY???

Gosh, do you suppose this site is a little bit PARTISAN???