Congress Heatedly Debates Gays In Military

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Policy Riles Tempers Of Lawmakers

(AP)  Opponents of the "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays in the military denounced it as cruel and unpatriotic Wednesday. Supporters insisted it was needed to maintain military morale, and raised the prospect of a rise of HIV infection among service members if gays are allowed to serve openly.

The heated exchanges came as Congress held its first hearing on "don't ask, don't tell" since its enactment 15 years ago.

Although legislation has been introduced to overturn the ban, the hearing wasn't an attempt to advance the bill, something supporters say can only happen if Democratic Sen. Barack Obama is elected president.

Republican Sen. John McCain supports "don't ask, don't tell."

Instead, "our purpose today is to begin a long-overdue review ... and to start a conversation about the real-life impact on our service members, their families and the operational readiness of our military," said Rep. Susan Davis, D-Calif., chair of the House Armed Services personnel subcommittee.

While there was plenty of conversation, consensus proved elusive and tempers flared as each side insisted on the moral soundness of their views.

The policy was intended to keep the military from asking recruits their sexual orientation, and to prevent servicemembers from declaring that they are gay or bisexual or engaging in homosexual activity.

Among the most arresting debates Wednesday came when Rep. Patrick Murphy, D-Pa., a first-term congressman and the only Iraq war veteran in Congress, accused a witness of implying that U.S. service members weren't professional enough to handle serving with homosexuals.

"You're saying you don't trust our military professionals to serve openly with people who might be different," Murphy said angrily to Elaine Donnelly, president of the Center for Military Readiness, a nonprofit that says it promotes certain military personnel policies.

"I think that's an insult," Murphy said.

Donnelly denied that, insisting that "forced cohabitation" and resulting "sexual tension ... will hurt discipline and morale."

"People are human, people have sexual feelings and they're not perfect," she said. "Prejudice is wrong, but feelings about sexuality are different."

Donnelly contended that if the law were repealed the number of HIV-positive service members would probably increase.

Rep. Vic Snyder, D-Ark., a Vietnam veteran and medical doctor, called that comment "so inappropriate" and suggested that Donnelly advocate for the military to recruit only lesbians, who he said have a low incidence of HIV.

The top Republican on the committee, Rep. John McHugh, R-N.Y., didn't stake out a position, but said that judgment on "don't ask, don't tell" must "ultimately rest on matters of military readiness morale good order and discipline."

Pentagon officials weren't invited to testify after committee members concluded they wouldn't say anything other than that they'd follow the law.

Asked Wednesday whether the Pentagon thinks it's appropriate to re-examine "don't ask, don't tell," Defense Department press secretary Geoff Morrell said: "I would say only that 'don't ask, don't tell' remains the law of the land. And to my knowledge, the department is not advocating a change in policy."

[kansas1946]

Donnelly and all the other bigots are the ones who are pathetic, disgusting, and immoral, not homosexual soldiers. And there are more heterosexuals in the world with HIV/AID S than homosexuals, and lesbians have the lowest rate of any group, so how would HIV increase? If this was 60 years ago, Donnelly and her bigoted ilk would be ranting against blacks and Jews in the military.


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Posted by informedone1 at 04:06 PM : Jul 24, 2008
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Thank you so much for your post. I had heard also about some of our Arabic interpreters being let go under this insane policy. We can only hope that we can move out of the dark ages, that the bigots will lose, (as they have always done in the past) and our best and brightest will ALWAYS have a chance to serve their country if they choose to do so.

[icankikurass]

AIDS infected Americans:

44% black
35% white
19% hispanic
1% other

Shall we stop bringing blacks into the military???

Black people and Hispanics have been disproportionately affected since the early years of the epidemic. In absolute numbers, blacks have outnumbered whites in new AIDS diagnoses and deaths since 1996, and in the number of people living with AIDS since 1998.

Let''s kick the hispancis out too while were at it.

[icankikurass]

msgtsteve, go on and clean up your room and take your meds. Maybe go watch some Teletubbies...I hear Tinky Winky is g a y too.

[icankikurass]

And any ex-military anything who wishes to "need to pork you mom again" (where did you learn how to write?) is somewhat sad in their own pathetic life. Posted by Avigil2

msgtsteve isn''t an ex ANYthing. He''s a pathetic zitfaced 14 year old with no friends and a computer.

[avigil2]

Mastersergeantsteve: just admit that you''re getting a good beatin'' here. Your views of G ays in the military are so way off. Your homophobic comments are really disturbing. And any ex-military anything who wishes to "need to pork you mom again" (where did you learn how to write?) is somewhat sad in their own pathetic life. If you want us to be proud of your years in service, than act like a true American patriot. Justice and equality for all!

[uradum1]

And your dad too.
Posted by msgtsteve

Yep, he''s dead so help yourself! You can rape a dead body, slap some kittens, make fun of crippled children, and spew your ignorance as a fianle!

[xmanborg]

Just get OVER IT and dont be so ****-phobic.

[avigil2]

Wolfear1 has a valid point. If it were that a military personale were HIV+ and in active duty, they would automatically be pulled out, therefore, no other soldiers would be at risk. Go ahead mastersergeantsteve and tackle that one.

[uradum1]

So honestly the chances of getting HIV in combat is remote.
Posted by wolfear1

Additionally, military members are required to get HIV testing annually.

[uradum1]

You are useless and probably pretty sick.
Posted by URAdum1

because, let''s recap:

Remember, God does not kill people! I do.
Posted by msgtsteve

[uradum1]

Does Jerry know he is missing one of his kids?
Posted by msgtsteve

So, are you insulting kids with muscular dystrophy? Or are you really so into your own moronic jokes that you stupidly insulted innocent kids with disabling diseases? You are useless and probably pretty sick.

[wolfear1]

URAdum1 my point was to answer the concerns of msgtsteve about wounded soldiers with HIV and the risk to those that would have to tend to them. You are correct and I misspoke the poitn I was making. And did not mean to give the impression that they were removed from active duty so much as removed from Combat duty.

[uradum1]

policy on HIV has always been to remove those that are HIV positive from active duty.
Posted by wolfear1

You are 100% incorrect. Service people are RETAINED, taken off combayt, flight, or sea duty, and stationed near a facility able to render treatment! Get your facts straight!!!

[informedone1]

There are approximately 100,000 brave men and women, who just happen to be gay, serving superbly in the American military and risking their lives and well-being for this country that oppresses and persecutes them, and this dimwitted bigot Donnelly has the gall to condemn them based on her own archaic, intolerant, reprehensible opinion? This dolt should just keep her mouth shut and slink away into obscurity already. Bush''s inept handling of the war in Iraq has lead to the deaths of far too many of our soldiers. And one of the reasons for all those deaths is the discharge from the military of extremely competent Arabic translators based solely on the fact of their sexual orientation. How can this cretin Donnelly have the utter nerve to look into the eyes of the parent of a soldier who has been slaughtered in Iraq or Afghanistan and say, "Oh well I''m sorry your son or daughter was killed because of our lack of interpreters, but it couldn''t be helped. We had to discharge the interpreter and disrupt his entire life and career, and sacrifice the life of your child, because the interpreter was homosexual." Donnelly and all the other bigots are the ones who are pathetic, disgusting, and immoral, not homosexual soldiers. And there are more heterosexuals in the world with HIV/AID S than homosexuals, and lesbians have the lowest rate of any group, so how would HIV increase? If this was 60 years ago, Donnelly and her bigoted ilk would be ranting against blacks and Jews in the military.

[uradum1]

Our servicemen and women should not be subject to the possibility of getting aids because of a combat situation. If you want to test the THEORY that you cant get aids from saliva, test it on yourself. Service men and women have enough to worry about without the remote possibility of contracting aids, period. Play social engineering somewhere else, not in the military.
Posted by msgtsteve

hey, masterseargentsteve, you need a SERIOUS dose of truth and reality. AIDS is brought into the military by STRAIGHT MEN WHO HAVE UNPROTECTED S E X, ESPECIALLY WITH PROSTITUTES. It is straight men, not women, not g a y men, and certainly not lesb1ans. How about actually enforcing the UCMJ on the rampant and shameful adultery going on??? That''s ACTUALLY punishable!!! Or, is immoral behavior OK if you''re a straight man???

[wolfear1]

msgtsteve, Thank you for your service to this country. I am an ex Army Officer an O3 if you are curious. policy on HIV has always been to remove those that are HIV positive from active duty. So honestly the chances of getting HIV in combat is remote. And yes we do require that you put on gloves when worrking on wounded for a host of reasons including infecting the wound you are trying to treat. While yes we need to worry about weapons being in good order we need to also worry about helpng the wounded. And as for g*ys serving. I knwo that I had a number of men and women under my command that probably were g*y (didn''t ask, they didn''t tell) and the one thought I have is that these people (just like you) served w/ honor and distinction. I was proud to have served w/ them and trusted my life to them as they did w/ me. To be honest; when the shooting starts I don''t care if RuPaul is in the foxhole w/ a gun in an evening dress.

[uradum1]

Remember, God does not kill people! I do.
Posted by msgtsteve

So just where do you get your crack from? Better clean out that pipe.
Posted by msgtsteve

So was it hard being the only drooling kid on the short bus?

[honestabe8]

msgtsteve: i think that the idea of lowering the age limit is more untenable than homosexuals marrying. in the latter case, it is just two adults entering into a binding contract that gives them legal rights. in the former case, it would be seen as an assault on kids.

[honestabe8]

msgtsteve: i got no problem with homosexuals being able to marry. many heterosexuals, including myself, have diminished marriage through stupid actions. so, the idea that g-a-y-s being married diminishing marriage is nuts.

[uradum1]

You proselytizing hypocrites up on your soap box condemning g a y s are the morally bankrupt people in our society. Slither back into your dark and damp hole of hatred and intolerence - and PLEASE, please stop procreating. I''m beginning to think you are stupid, and not merely ignorant.