Obama’s Head Is In The Sand

National Review: Ill. Senator Has Left Iraq More Cemented In His Ill-Advised Positions Than Ever

(National Review Online)  This column was written by Pete Hegseth.

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Five months ago, I returned to Iraq as an embedded journalist, some 18 months after I had completed a combat tour there. It was a worthwhile trip. I returned to Iraq to cover the progress the U.S. military had been making on the ground since the surge had begun. Mainstream-media coverage of the war had largely ignored the counterinsurgency’s success, rehearsing outdated notions of the conditions there. You could say I made the long trip to the front to cover an exposed domestic flank of American public opinion.

My fact-finding at the highest levels of strategic command and the lowest level of tactical implementation brought back into view the intricacies of the Iraq experience. What seems like a black-and-white situation on op-ed pages and in TV talking points in the United States is revealed as complex grayscale in Iraq.

So keeping one’s ear to the ground and eye on the facts in Iraq is exceedingly important. It takes real effort to cut through the spin and punditry; and if anyone spends too much time away, tempting platitudes like “we’ve already won” or “withdrawal immediately” creep into the lexicon, complicating one’s ability to tailor their positions to reality, rather than ideology.

Thus, trips to Iraq tend to be enlightening experiences - full of competing emotions, as long-held assumptions, good and bad, clash with self-evident realities on the ground. Any serious student of warfare, particularly of counterinsurgency, will know that every battlefield is fluid, and information that is relevant one day may be deceiving the next.

On Monday, Senator Barack Obama finally had his wingtips on the ground in Iraq, to at last meet with U.S. brass and Iraqi leaders and get his dose of reality. He met with commanders on the ground who told him - as they recently told Fox News Sunday and the New York Times - that the timeline for withdrawal that Obama supports would be disastrous, both for the prospects of success in Iraq, and for strategic stability in the region.

Obama heard from Iraqi leaders, Maliki included, who told him the same thing - and who brandished their newfound reconciliation dramatically on Saturday, when the largest Sunni block rejoined the Iraqi parliament and cabinet.

And Obama heard from Iraqi and U.S. troops and from the citizens of Iraq who have all witnessed al-Qaeda’s attempts - both through their extremist rhetoric and maniacal deeds - to make Iraq the central front in their war against the West.

Despite these facts - however the mainstream media chooses to spin them - the operative question is: Will any of this matter to Obama?

I fear it won’t. He’s already shown that his version of fact-finding is to lay out an Iraq plan before going there. And while he conceded yesterday that there has been “enormous improvement” in security, Obama remains unwilling to concede change-I-can-believe-in on his three main Iraq tenets: timelines, political progress, and Iraq as a central front.

The statement he released after touching down in-country reiterates his misguided support for “a clear date” for withdrawal, his confused assertion that “political reconciliation continues to lag,” and his stubborn insistence that America must “refocus” our efforts in Afghanistan. Obama went so far as to tell an interviewer that he would oppose the surge again, despite the fact that the strategy that has saved countless American and Iraqi lives.

None of this is surprising. An Obama concession on these points would mean political damage-control for weeks. Still, I would like to believe that Sen. Obama is capable of recognizing - and adapting his views on - the changed conditions in Iraq he is now seeing for the first time. A wartime posture demands this. But I doubt we’ll ever see it.

The sad reality of this trip is that Sen. Obama has now left Iraq more cemented in his ill-advised positions than ever before. He was willing to throw scraps to commanders and troops (“good job, guys”) but sought every opportunity to confirm that his policy views - which are as outdated as cassette tapes - had not changed.

The next question, then, is: Who will fact-check the fact-finder? Sen. Obama managed to praise the surge (which he fervently opposed), all the while calling for timelines, degrading Iraqi leaders, and pretending that al-Qaeda in Iraq doesn’t exist.

Contrast this with John McCain. Based on his visits to Iraq before the surge, he had the prescience to call for a new strategy and more troops. And despite running for president, he continued to make fact-finding trips to Iraq after the surge, and reported the success of the surge before anyone else. Sen. McCain went to Iraq to gather information that would inform his policy positions - not to “put lipstick on a pig,” as General Petraeus is apt to say.

In the days ahead, additional information will be made public on what General Petraeus and Senator Obama discussed. We'll see if Obama’s statements in the weeks and months ahead show whether his ideological approach to the Iraq war has been disturbed by any single fact on the ground.

[greeneyes222]

Amen, amen, amen.

Obama walked around with his eyes wide shut and his mouth wide open. It was a huge opportunity, and he missed it.

[ubrew12]

I wonder what Pete Hegseth thought of the ''reality on the ground'' before our invasion?

Back then it was black and white, and I suspect he chose poorly, as did our President.

Now, by his own admission, its all grey and greyer, yet he seems to insist Obama address his solutions in ''black and white'', as if Obama were somehow responsible for the mess that resulted with our invasion.

There was an easy solution to the question of Iraq, back in 2003. Now, all the solutions are soaked in sh*t, and no one is going to come out smelling like a rose. If there is any justice, that will at LEAST include the idiot that got us into this.

[bluestardad]

NRO

SORRY YOU FEEL SO BAD

HAVE YOUR DUEL PASSPORT HOLDING AIPAC MEMBERS GO SERVE IN IRAQ!

[noloyalisti]

These guys from the National *** Organization just won''t tell us what we have won. Why can''t they tell us that this was about an imperialistic conquest for oil?

[noloyalisti]

The National Republican Organization ignores the fact that 70% of the people are against this fiasco started for Exxon and Chevron to steal another country''s oil. The are sick and tired of the con men and their criminal and anti-American activities against us. They are sick and tired of McBush, McSame, Rove and the rest of the Greasy Old Perverts party.

[Razzl]

Ha Ha! Snort! This guy Hegseth is doing his best to sound like the pretentious journalist character "Roland Hedley" in Garry Trudeau''s "Doonesbury" comic strip. He was probably more of an "ingrown toenail" than an "embedded journalist".

Any American commander who told Obama that the Iraquis couldn''t be ready to handle their own security in 16 months is admitting incompetence and should resign. The American people, including most of those who won''t be voting for him, overwhelmingly agree with Obama''s view that Afghanistan is the real theater of operations and the Iraq occupation does not serve our interests and needs to be ended. (If you don''t believe my numbers, check out the Time.com survey on this question from a couple of weeks ago, where 80% of tens of thousands of respondents agreed with this). Nothwithstanding Cheney''s theory of his right to exercise ultra-constitutional dictatorial powers, the American public has a right to have a say in matters as important as war and peace, and we have spoken, and are not changing our minds. "Roland Hegseth" can continue to argue his case, but if he won''t acknowledge even the smallest fact against it then he''s not a journalist, he''s just another NRO PROPAGANDIST...

[se4ringtruth]

What people are losing sight of is that Barak Hussein Obama was raised Muslim. One of the tenets is that it is alright, and even encouraged, to lie to your enemies, and those of different faiths. Tell them what they want to hear, not what you plan to do.

It''''s up to the voters now. Follow an American who tells the truth, or ''''Barry'''' Obama, trained as a child to lie whenever is suits his ''''god''''.

ST

[alanrobisch]

Why do you think you''''re losing?!


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Posted by suzyku at 06:45 PM : Jul 22, 2008
+ report abuse
If lincoln had followed public opinion we would now be split in two. Also note Obama has dug in in much the way bush was accused of and has decided to follow a policy is no longer sensible.

We should guide our actions by the present situations. He has set up a false dichotomy which requires we withdraw in a certain fixed time line which is ignorant at the least.

He could be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. POlicy should be based on current events not preconceived notions. Eisenhower in a similar situation did not make the kind of promises that obama has made. He ended the war in Korea satisfactorily not based on assumptions of what should be done. He stated he would go to Korea when elected. Obama has gone there to prove he is foreign policy guru. He isn''t and certainly won''t become one from this visit.

He is not garnering facts. He is using it as a means to get publicity which he has well suceeded

[alanrobisch]

want us in Iraq, a 100 year nightmare


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Posted by joyous88 at 07:09 PM : Jul 22, 2008
+ report abuse
do you just parrot the liberal line or do you think. I can''t tell it seems many just parott what they hear and don''t judge for themselves

[ioweign]

Amen, amen, amen.

Obama walked around with his eyes wide shut and his mouth wide open. It was a huge opportunity, and he missed it.

Posted by greeneyes222 at 03:25 PM : Jul 22, 2008

And you were there?

Did you happen to see any WMDs too?

[magnetrack]

Withdrawal sounded like the right thing to do until I heard it from Obama. Obama is the most incredible hoax I''ve ever seen.

[ioweign]

want us in Iraq, a 100 year nightmare


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Posted by joyous88 at 07:09 PM : Jul 22, 2008
+ report abuse
do you just parrot the liberal line or do you think. I can''''t tell it seems many just parott what they hear and don''''t judge for themselves

Posted by alanrobisch2 at 07:12 PM : Jul 22, 2008

Actually, that is not a liberal line. Try McCain...

[dashortround]

Obama has always been dead-on right about Iraq, and McCain has always been dead-on wrong.

McCain is a fool, just like Bush and Co.

[ausus-2009]

A few months ago I read a column in the San Francisco Chronicle that looked at the concept of good war, bad war saying some people saw (now including Obama) Iraq as a bad war and Afghanistan as a good war. It argued that the natural progression was that once there was a withdrawal from Iraq, the critics would then see Afghanistan as the bad war. Already excuses are being made by some why Afghanistan is a bad war. Some are even saying defending Israel is a bad war.

Where will it end? The former Muslim territories of Spain? Former Yugoslavia? A partition of the US?

[irliberal]

Here at home we have the KKK, the neocons, the confederates and people who actually think Rush Limbaugh presents facts and news.

I think those threats here at home are more serious. Terrorists abroad hijacked planes here and knocked down two buildings. We responded by invading Afghanistan AND Iraq - and now the Bush regime wants to invade Iran. Since we invaded Iraq - hundreds of thousands of civilians - dead. Over 4200 MORE of our American citizens - dead. A puppet government based on the KORAN (of all things) installed in Iraq. Billions upon billions of our tax dollars spent, our economy in the toilet partly because of those costs, partly because of the stranglehold the republicans have had on the leadership of this country for the past eight years. Neocon judges put in power, tax free political organizations (you call them churches) given more taxpayer money to pursue their political goals, global climate change ignored (thereby accelerated), and the USA turned into a laughingstock in front of the whole world.

How much more blood republicans? How much more blood before you''re satisfied? A million? Ten million? Doesn''t matter, they''re just arabs right? Pathetic.

Who did more damage? The terrorists of 9/11 or the neocons and the Bush administration?

The question is rhetorical. Of course.

[irliberal]

John McCain judgement and experience that only comes with age:

"There''s not a history of clashes that are violent between Sunnis and Shiahs. So I think they can probably get along." [MSNBC, 4/23/03]

" I believe that the success will be fairly easy." [CNN, 9/24/02]

"We''re not going to get into house-to-house fighting in Baghdad. " [CNN, 9/29/02]

"But the point is that, one, we will win this conflict. We will win it easily." [MSNBC, 1/22/03]

"But I believe that the Iraqi people will greet us as liberators." [NBC, 3/20/03]

"It''s clear that the end is very much in sight." [ABC, 4/9/03]

"This is a mission accomplished.." [This Week, ABC, 12/14/03]

Want to repeat the last 8 catastrophic eight years? Vote McSame!

[irliberal]

Republicans: The party that wouldn''t even exist at all anymore except for their platform of hating gay people and anyone who doesn''t subscribe to their particular brand of religion. These days, being a "conservative" has nothing to do with being conservative fiscally, it just means you hate minorities, love war, fetuses (until they are born) and have no sense of fiscal responsibility whatsoever. The last eight years have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Over SIX years of war. Civil rights breached by our commander in chief. Internationally recognized torture sanctioned by the White House. Two invaded and currently occupied countries. Hundreds of thousands dead, including OVER 4500 American soldiers. Billions of our tax dollars spent, and yes, are still being spent to this very moment.

Iraq, which had NOTHING to do with 9/11, is now an occupied country which will implode when we get out of it, whether that happens one, two, ten or five hundred years from now. A society that CHOOSES to be ruled by religion cannot become a democracy; it can only be a theocracy with voting cards.

Bin Laden still lives. The mastermind of 9/11 still walks free.

The one, simple word for this is: failure. No amount of deception, indignation or wailing by republicons can change these facts.

Failure of Bush. Failure of Cheney. Failure of the republicans.

Time for a change.

[ausus-2009]

Okay IRLiberal, what would you have done after 9/11? Would you have taken it to the UN to watch any substantial efforts be rejected by Russia and China? Would you have done what the radical Muslims wanted and withdrawn all US forces from lands populated by Muslims to leave them to carry out their extreme policies? Would you have sat down with Osama and Saddam for a friendly chat? What would have been the ultimate result of following any of these paths?

[irliberal]

Posted by ausus at 08:59 P

If I thought - for one moment - that you were actually interested in any of my ideas about what should have been done, I''d respond.

It would take a very great effort by you to convince me of that sincerity - however - feel free to try.

[patriot12436]

test

[ausus-2009]

IRLiberal,

As a person who graduated in history and politics, a former newspaper editor and a person who has traveled extensively, I am always interested in what happened and what might have been.

Historians in 100 years may have many different interpretations of the happenings of the past 50 years.

[patriot12436]

razzl
This journalist served there in a combat role and has went back to report. I trust those who have been there to know.

[lucasnico]

at least this *** is in the opinion section....

[element51]

Se4ingtruth.....I must say you are posted on the right thread. You are another one of those cowardly little toads who slightly change someone elses screen name and then post the opposite of what they normally post hoping that you can fool someone. What a coward you are. You should be ashamed of yourself. Then you post the same old lie that Obama is a muslim. Sorry charlie but we''ve heard that over and over so try to find another lie to post. It is unpatriotic bozos like you that hate America. Patriotic Americans prize the truth and are willing to die for it. But you are a pathetic excuse for a human being. Get your own screen name and leave SearingTruth alone. He is a great American!

[element51]

ausus....The answer to your question is simple. We should have gone into Afghanistan after Ben Laden and chased him till we caught him. But the bush people knew that the nation was wanting someone punished for what happened on 9-11 and they used that to invade Iraq while here at home people were trying to understand what was happening. They lied to us while we were still in shock and by the time we woke up it was to late. See? Simple.

[ausus-2009]

Element51,

How many troops would it have taken to catch Bin Laden? How long would it have taken? What if a full commitment had been unsuccessful? Would we now be saying "let''s get out of Afghanistan?"

[aakalan]

I keep forgetting.

I keep vowing to avoid this site, to avoid those religious Neo-Cons who are only interested in death and conquest in support of Israel, not the US.

You know they hate Obama because he can see that the "Emperor''s new clothes" are non-existent. They hate him because he had the intelligence and insight, from day one, to claim that we were fighting the wrong war and that the malefactors who brought us 9/11 would get away scot-free.

And he committed the ultimate sin: he was right.

I can''t believe that CBS sponsors NRO here. It must be their version of political correctness.

[alohaone1]

good job !...at least , finally someone who is willing to see the truths . I do not have any respect for Obama . He has shown that he is shallow and untruthful and stubborn beyond description . It is like spitting in the face of the Generals and troops in Iraq. In twisting his word around and fail to acknowledge what really happened there and by sticking to his ill-advised position after seeing the result , Barrack has done a dis-service to all our troops and especially to the great General Patreaus , without whom , it is surely another Vietnam again. BArrack has dug his own hole . He can not get out of it now . I hope John Mc Cain keep pounding on the facts that Obama has refused to see so that the American public become more aware of it . In the end , just like the deal with rev. wright , Obama will be FORCED to abandon his position any way because the truth will always come out , and at that time , his campaign will be over , American will be saved another incompetent presidency and another Vietnam-type failure in both Iraq and Afganishtan ...

[bluestardad]

NRO

SORRY YOU FEEL SO BAD

HAVE YOUR DUEL PASSPORT HOLDING AIPAC MEMBERS AN THE KOOL AID DRINKING BUSHIT SLAVES GO SERVE IN IRAQ!

[gunfighter51]

Finally some objective reporting.

Does anyone really know what this guy is going to do? He says one thing to the kooks and another to the center, and without his speech writer, just looks lost.

The way it''s being reported, BHO has just saved the middle east from GW by doing the same thing GW was planning to do.

Contrary to what CBS, NBC, ABC want you to believe, BHO is not quite the president yet, and in spite of there efforts probably won''t be.

[mcvet]

Contrary to what CBS, NBC, ABC want you to believe, BHO is not quite the president yet, and in spite of there efforts probably won''''t be.

Posted by Gunfighter51 at 06:46 AM : Jul 23, 2008

ROFLMAO I don''t know where you live but EVERYWHERE I travel you are about as dead wrong as it''s possible to get. Impressive or Statesman are two words I hear about him... McSame? What did HE just say, is what people say. Can you believe he doesn''t know that?? Seriously, even if you DO NOT take off the Swastika, you can''t be serious?? REALLY?? SIEG HEIL BUSH

[mcvet]

Obama has refused to see so that the American public become more aware of it . In the end , just like the deal with rev. wright , Obama will be FORCED to abandon his position any way because the truth will always come out , and at that time , his campaign will be over , American will be saved another incompetent presidency and another Vietnam-type failure in both Iraq and Afganishtan ...

Posted by alohaone1 at 01:11 AM : Jul 23, 2008

LOL YOU are ONE fascist who needs to stay away from the Kool Aid Sparky! IRAQ was a LIE! IT was based on a LIE, was invaded NOT because of any Weapons or connection to our enemy but because a VERY Incompetent Arrogant Leader THOUGHT we MIGHT have to fight Saddam SOMEDAY. That''s what we NOW know. Now MOST intelligent people would say we need to address the People who ACTUALLY DID attack us and let the folks of Iraq do what all people must do... govern themselves. Now lets stand... let Shooter hear ya!! SIEG HEIL BUSH

[bmadeline-2009]

You right wingers can''t stand for people to finally wake up to the fact that you and your pres are idiots! I''m loving every minute of it. What a disgusting bunch of morons.

[grumpas]

It would be nice if this bunch of clueless lunatics (Bush and Co) had any remote idea how to fight terrorism????? Once more guys. Terrorism is a clandestine group of people with the same fanatical ideology! They are freelance and don''t owe their allegiance to any country just a ideology. It isn''t a country! You are never going to succeed in fighting terrorism until you get the facts through your thick heads! Bush didn''t bother going after the people responsible for 9/11. They are still roaming the earth. But used the incident to start wars that are only created terrorists! McCain has the same clueless ideology Bush has had for 71/2 years now. He is going down the same well trodden path that leads to nowhere! I won''t be voting for him!

[notblue]

McVet, "who actually attacked us" and what specific country do they represent? Please tell us why when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor we landed on the beaches of Normandy? France didn''t attack us, was that a lie? Germany didn''t attack us why didn''t we attack Japan first?

[old300d]

1. the both talk to us like preachers.

2. they both say "ta" instead of "to".

3. they both are the ones that will bring us the big change.

4. they both can not admit when they are WRONG ! ! !

Obama = Bush ! ! !

[superdem]

At least 80% of the American people hate the Iraq war, and know it was Bush''s plan to occupy an oil-rich arab nation too weak to resist. We didn''t know how horrendously violent the resistance could be, since nothing like it was ever seen during Saddam''s rule. Iraq was much more stable and didn''t cost America a dime back then. 4,124 Americans were alive who are NOT now. How anyone can call the Iraq debacle a success is flabbergasting. McCain and the Republicans in Congress must be sent packing.

[old300d]

When I listen to Obama explain his position on the surge I think I am hearing GWB explain all his mistakes ! ! !

4 more years of a president that can''t admit mistakes ! ! !

[old300d]

Ted Kennedy was asked during the first gulf was what he thought the out come should be.

He said he thought we should put a democratic govt in place.

When did the democrats flip flop on doing that ?

[old300d]

I can understand how people in the middle east could hate us for leaving S.H. in power after the first war. Then he kept causing more trouble sending money openly to terriorists in Gaza among other things. He kept messing up and we had to correct the mistake we made leaving him in power after the first war.

The way we did it was wrong but it was the right thing to do.

We are still paying for mistakes made by Bust 1.

[justsane-2009]

hegseth sez: obama met with iraqi leaders, maliki included, who told him that his withdrawal timetable would be "disasterous". and yet...

Here is Maliki''s statement, delivered as Obama''s visit to the region was beginning:

"Whoever is thinking about the shorter term [for withdrawal] is closer to reality. Artificially extending the stay of U.S. troops would cause problems.... As soon as possible, as far as we''re concerned... Those who operate on the premise of short time periods in Iraq today are being more realistic.... Artificially prolonging the tenure of US troops in Iraq would cause problems. U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes." July 19 interview with the German magazine Der Spiegel

where is mr. hegseth getting his information?

[jon2012-2009]

where is mr. hegseth getting his information?
Posted by justsane at 11:24 AM : Jul 23, 2008

Where does NRO get its information? They say liberals are liars too but I have yet to see a liberal news media that lies with such ease.

[jon2012-2009]

Iraq was much more stable and didn''''t cost America a dime back then. 4,124 Americans were alive who are NOT now. How anyone can call the Iraq debacle a success is flabbergasting.
Posted by superdem at 10:22 AM : Jul 23, 2008

It''s kind of insane. How do you argue with people whose sanity is questionable? The best I can figure out is they think Iraq has prevented further attacks on U.S. soil after 9/11. This line of thinking sounds ad hoc because they offer no proof and discounts the effectiveness of our DHS and the value of going after al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

[alohaone1]

good job !...at least , finally someone who is willing to see the truths . I do not have any respect for Obama . He has shown that he is shallow and untruthful and stubborn beyond description . It is like spitting in the face of the Generals and troops in Iraq. In twisting his word around and fail to acknowledge what really happened there and by sticking to his ill-advised position after seeing the result , Barrack has done a dis-service to all our troops and especially to the great General Patreaus , without whom , it is surely another Vietnam again. BArrack has dug his own hole . He can not get out of it now . I hope John Mc Cain keep pounding on the facts that Obama has refused to see so that the American public become more aware of it . In the end , just like the deal with rev. wright , Obama will be FORCED to abandon his position any way because the truth will always come out , and at that time , his campaign will be over , American will be saved another incompetent presidency and another Vietnam-type failure in both Iraq and Afganishtan ...

[wakeup60]

Who''s head is in the sand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It''s the RIGHT that Is SO VERY "WRONG" !!!!!!!!!!!
Obama is "RIGHT" IN EVERY WAY ON THIS ONE...THE WAY!!!THE ONLY HEADS THAT ARE IN THE SAND...ARE SUPPORTERS OF THE BUSHMIESTER/There is NO "WIN"-ING ... Here or THERE...IT WILL BE BACK JUST LIKE IT WAS AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN! FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS/THESE PEOPLE HAVE "LOVED" KILLING EACH OTHER...AND NOW OUR KIDS/FOR WHAT? NOTHING! bUSH STARTED THIS THING WITH THE WRONG COUNTRY TO BEGIN WITH/DID YOU FORGET??? THE ENEMY HAS JUST CROSSED THE BORDER AND WE ARE NOW SACRIFICING OUR KID''S LIVES,LIMBS AND BRAINS...IN THE MOUNTAIN RANGES OF AFGHANISTAN...WE ARE MESSING WITH AND HAVE MESSED WITH AN ARAB HORNET''S NEST...WHICH WILL "NEVER" BE "WON"...AS MCBUSH IS ALREADY TAKING THE HIGH ROAD STATING THE TERM "VICTORY"...THERE WILL NEVER BE AN END TO THIS...IF WE DO NOT USE SOME CLEAR THINKING/NOT LITTLE GEORGE''S MENTALITY/WHAT MENTALITY-AND JUST CLEAR OUT OUR YOUNG SOLDIERS AND BOMB THE ENTIRE IDIOTIC BUNCH!GET IT OVER WITH/MAYBE THEY COULD BE EXTRA LUCKY WITH HITTING OSAMA ON THE NOSE AND TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED IN THE FIRST PLACE/OVER 4200 LIVES AGO! OBAMA ''08!!!

[ioweign]

Ted Kennedy was asked during the first gulf was what he thought the out come should be.

He said he thought we should put a democratic govt in place.

When did the democrats flip flop on doing that ?

Posted by old300d at 10:25 AM : Jul 23, 2008

He "thought". An opinion.

Then President Bush 1, "decided not" to go to Baghdad because it would have been a quagmire.

And Sec. of Defense D1ck Cheney during Gulf 1 was against going to Baghdad too.

[bigal321321]

I sincerely feel sorry for you poor folks who still believe that "victory" is at hand. You are so beaten down by your own propaganda that you can''t see the forest for the trees. I''ll bet that your sons or daughters lives aren''t on the line over there either. So go ahead and spout your BS while more American young lives are lost and may you carry their blood on your hands for the rest of your life. That''s the problem here, you would rather bury our young in the sand than take your head out of it.

[notblue]

bigal, it''s not as sad as people like you who refuse to believe the only option is defeat, soo sad.

[noloyalisti]

Hey notblue what is victory? That is the problem with the whole conservative nightmare we are part of. No solutions, only bullet point statements with no plan or vision for the future behind them. It is like all faith based, reactionary, feel good hot air all the time.

[mainedoggie]

media spin eh? .... more garbage from a right-wing rag. Next stop, holiday in Cambodia.