Judge Bars Some Bin Laden Driver Evidence

War Crimes Judge Says Former Driver Was Subjected To "Highly Coercive" Conditions At Afghan Base

(CBS/AP)  The judge in the first American war crimes trial since World War II barred evidence on Monday that interrogators obtained from Osama bin Laden's driver, ruling he was subjected to "highly coercive" conditions in Afghanistan.

But Judge Keith Allred, a Navy captain, left the door open for the prosecution to use statements Salim Hamdan made at Guantanamo, despite defense claims that all of his statements were tainted by alleged abuse including sleep deprivation and solitary confinement.

Hamdan, who was captured at a roadblock in Afghanistan in November 2001, pleaded not guilty at the start of a trial that will be closely watched as the first full test of the Pentagon's system for prosecuting alleged terrorists. He faces a maximum life sentence if convicted of conspiracy and aiding terrorism.

The chief prosecutor for the tribunals, Army Col. Lawrence Morris, said the loss of some of Hamdan's statements will not keep the trial from going forward.

"It does not reduce my confidence in our ability fully to depict Mr. Hamdan's criminality," he told reporters. "We're fine."

The judge said the prosecution cannot use a series of interrogations at the Bagram air base and Panshir, Afghanistan, because of the "highly coercive environments and conditions under which they were made."

At Bagram, Hamdan says he was kept in isolation 24 hours a day with his hands and feet restrained, and armed soldiers prompted him to talk by kneeing him in the back. He says his captors at Panshir repeatedly tied him up, put a bag over his head and knocked him the ground.

Michael Berrigan, the deputy chief defense counsel, described the ruling as a major blow to the tribunal system that allows hearsay and evidence obtained through coercion.

"It's a very significant ruling because these prosecutions are built to make full advantage of statements obtained from detainees," he said.

A jury of six officers with one alternate was selected from a pool of 13 flown in from other U.S. bases over the weekend. Hamdan's lawyers succeeded in barring others, including one who had friends at the Pentagon at the time of the Sept. 11 attacks, and another who had been a key government witness as a student.

Monday marked the first time after years of pretrial hearings and legal challenges that any prisoner reached this stage of the tribunals.

For months his lawyers fought to delay the trial, arguing that military rules don't allow for a fair defense, CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports.

The U.S. plans to prosecute about 80 Guantanamo prisoners, including the self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks and four alleged coconspirators.

Lawyers argue that enemy combatants like Hamdan, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and others may not have complete access to witnesses or classified information that may help their defense. And questionable evidence, produced by harsh interrogations, may be used against them.

The legal advisor to the Military Commissions rejects the concerns, Orr reports.

Hamdan appeared to go along with the process despite earlier threats to boycott. The Yemeni with a fourth-grade education appeared to cooperate fully with his Pentagon-appointed military lawyer, whispering in his ear during the questioning of potential jurors.

"Mr. Hamdan expressed great interest in this," said Charles Swift, one of his civilian attorneys.

In addition to the other interrogations, the judge said he would throw out statements whenever a government witness is unavailable to vouch for the questioners' tactics. He also withheld a ruling on a key interrogation at Guantanamo in May 2003 until defense lawyers can review roughly 600 pages of confinement records provided by the government on Sunday night.

Hamdan has been held at Guantanamo since May 2002. A challenge filed by his lawyers resulted in a 2006 Supreme Court ruling striking down the original rules for the military tribunals. Congress and President Bush responded with new rules, the Military Commissions Act.

Hamdan met bin Laden in Afghanistan in 1996 and began working on his farm before winning a promotion as his driver.

Defense lawyers say he only kept the job for the $200-a-month salary. But prosecutors allege he was a personal driver and bodyguard of the al Qaeda leader. They say he transported weapons for the Taliban and helped bin Laden escape U.S. retribution following the Sept. 11 attacks.

[feelfree4u]

Re: "It is okay to murder children..."

Posted by nolle61


IDF?

[terrorislamo]

SHOW US YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE HUSSEIN,,,

Is Obama%u2019s %u201CFight The Smears%u201D Passing Off A Fraudulent Document As His %u201CCertificate of Live Birth%u201D?
Barack Obama%u2019s Achilles heel?
This may be the most damning evidence to date. Obama may be over the barrel now, once and for all.
Janice Okubo, Director of Communications of the State of Hawaii Department of Health confirms all earlier suspicions of a forgery.
The million dollar question remains. What is Obama hiding?
Faked certificate suggests that Obama may not be %u201Cnatural born%u201D US citizen
It is now a certainty that the %u201Cbirth certificate%u201D claimed by the Barack Obama campaign as authentic is a photoshopped fake.
The image, purporting to come from the Hawaii Department of Health, has been the subject of intense skepticism in the blogosphere in the past two weeks. But now the senior spokesman of that Department has confirmed to Israel Insider what are the required features of a certified birth document %u2014 features that Obama%u2019s purported %u201Cbirth certificate%u201D clearly lack.
http://conservablogs.com/velvethammer/2008/06/25/obamas-fight-the-smears-daily-kos-are-passing-off-a-fraudulent-document-as-his-certificate-of-live-birth/

[inventagod2]

Hmmm, evidence obtained by torture is inadmissable???

Bu$hCo must immediately remove this judge...

[terrorislamo]

Leftist Support of Islamist Terror

Most shocking is the outright sympathy of many leftist-liberals for Islamic fascism. They said little about the murder of 500 Russian civilians, many of them children, but screamed week after week because some Arab savage at Abu Ghraib prison wore a bag on his head. They cared nothing about the beheadings committed by the Islamo-savages or the execution of 12 Nepalese. David Horowitz gives an excellent discussion of who this "Left" really is. He calls them neo-communist, I call them Leftist-Liberals. I''m a classical Liberal myself and I feel it''s time to remove this irrational element that has been allowed to poison our good name.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/list.htm

The Chorus of Useful Idiots

http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/thornton.htm

Supporters of Muslim Terrorism on the un-Religious Left

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id2/index1.htm

Exposing Leftists'' Radical Islam Connection

http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/left_islam.htm

Definitions, Lies, and Losing Your Head

http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/def_lies.htm

Shocking (Liberal) Silence

http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/leftist_silence.htm

See no evil: Why the Left is blind to suffering

http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/no_evil.htm

[talkingham]

You know, if this is the best case for War Crimes we can roll out it''s pitiful, just pitiful. Is this the same team that brought OJ to trial-- maybe they can get him for War Crimes now!

[ajayvee]

Posted by nsSherlock1: When this is over with, he will be able to buy a chain of 7-11 stores. His lawyers must be picking out their mansions already pending the Civil trial to follow.

No rush! Some three weeks ago an officer (Mueller ..spelling?) connected with the military tribunals told CNN that even if the tribunal cleared Hamdan of any involvement with terrorism he will still never see another day of freedom in his life. I wonder how we would describe such a trial if an American citizen were the defendant? Is this form of justice a window into the country''s future?

[nssherlock1]

When this is over with, he will be able to buy a chain of 7-11 stores. His lawyers must be picking out their mansions already pending the Civil trial to follow.

[shazam111]

what, driver has to do with any thing I don''t get it...its a job that pays in that part of the world ..the real culprits are at large in the white house and we are chasing the poor driver,this type of dumbness is just laughable and the driver is showing that in the picture.

[vnveteran72]

From Glenn Greenwald in Salon Today:

(Excerpt)
In Britain, the Foreign Affairs Committee of the House of Commons has just issued its Human Rights Annual Report. It concluded that America''s word can no longer be trusted when it comes to claims about torture, rendition and human rights abuses. From The Guardian yesterday:



"In a damning criticism of US integrity, the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee said ministers should no longer take at face value statements from senior politicians, including George Bush, that America does not resort to torture in the light of the CIA admitting it used "waterboarding". The interrogation technique was unreservedly condemned by Foreign Secretary David Miliband, who said it amounted to torture."

Today''s committee report said there were "serious implications" of the striking inconsistencies between British ministers continuing to believe the Bush administration when it denies using torture. "The UK can no longer rely on US assurances that it does not use torture, and we recommend that the government does not rely on such assurances in the future," said the committee. "We also recommend that the government should immediately carry out an exhaustive analysis of current US interrogation techniques on the basis of such information as is publicly available or which can be supplied by the US."

Time for Shrub and Darth to visit the Hague.....

[babooph]

The whole world knows it is "kangaroo court "time-even if he were guilty of something wrong,the whole rotten system is not to be trusted.The US is in its usual no win position.

[newsjunky5]

Usually trials(war crimes or otherwise) aren''t run by the party that was victimized. An international court should hold a war crimes trial, if one is even appropriate for this. We don''t convict soldiers, we hold them until the conflict is over. We don''t hold these soldiers accountable for their weapons, such as the two missles he had, that''s the equipment of war. We take the guns/missles/etc. away (if we haven''t blown them up). Should then Vietnam hold trials to convict the poor American kids who were drafted, handed an M-16 and sent there? They were after all walking down their streets with automatic weapons. No, that would be foolish. The politicians who planned it are another story.
Bin Laden should face a war crimes trial for killing civilians on 9/11 and the other attacks in Europe, Africa, etc. Punishing his driver, his secretary, or his cook because we don''t have him is highly questionable. Highly questionable.
And as for a uniform or not - Doesn''t matter how he dresses.

[tapsettle]

Those demanding blood in this forum should listen to americas traditional but distancing allies. It is a very sad day when the US is considered as bad, if not worse, than those it claims are terrorists. The dawn of that day started when the US invaded Iraq, but its'' noon is only just happening now. America is in desperate need of a new day.

[whiskyrocker]

SistaTee
-------
Yes, the pool boy must die also. Sorry

[ramos937]

The GITMO detainee situation has done immeasurable harm to the USA. Regardless of the outcome, it has been proven very faulty. Out of approx 970 detainees, we now have 270. 700 were released. Yet folks like Cheney continue to refer to them as terriorists. If they were so, why release them.

[feelfree4u]

jerr111,

Be careful engaging him. He comes across as a very angry castrate, and a bloodthirsty Zionist.

[feelfree4u]

jerr111,

Re: "FeelFree, are you crazy?"

It depends who you ask.

Re: "You just filled up pages and pages here. Diarrhea of the mouth."

I have a doppelganger that seems to wish that he was me.

He has a number of screen-names including michaelt302 and "FeeelFree4U", with 3 eee''s.

He seems to have scurried off.

[sistatee-2009]

Who''s next, Bin Laden''s pool-boy?

[stn_sage]

ofbyfor1:

Posted by stn_sage at 12:29 AM : Jul 22, 2008
--------------------------
I want to repeat this post because this is a point that the neocons always seem to neglect and then they want to accuse those of us who DO take it into account as being ''''America haters'''' or ''''terrorist apologists''''.

I don''''t think that I belong to either of those categories.

But I do believe that evidence gathered under torture and hearsay should simply NOT be allowed under any system that wants to have the word ''''justice'''' associated with its name.

For those of you who want to justify this--do you realize that we are only a short step away from the right of the state to take away anyone for any reason and keep them indefinaitely, without any right of ''''habeus corpus''''?

Boumediene v. Bush, look it up!

Posted by ofbyfor1 at 01:08 AM : Jul 22, 2008
---------------------------
You have stated what I only implied---and what our neocon brethren who rush to judgment should consider---these kangaroo courts could be used against them! Deny justice to others, lose it for yourselves!

[closethippy1]

I really don''t understand how President George Bush could have gone wrong here.
Yes, he can argue all you want about how no laws whatsoever, be it the US'' or the UN''s, apply to a particular group of people.
Yes, he can detain them for a whole bunch of years without a trial.
Yes, he can try to drown them and not call that torture.
Yes, he did all that because he thought he heard a ticking bomb and he wanted to find out where the perpetrators are.
But in the end, when those so-called "Enemy combatants" come before a judge, the judge only knows one thing and one thing only, that''s the Constitution of the USA along with its amendments and all the laws created around it.
So what in the world does President Bush expect other than the laws of the land to be applied regardless of how much he dislikes the accused parties?
That is what is so insane about Jr.&Co.: To pretend that the law is going to be ignored or redone on the spot by the judges who are supposed to implement it.
I have said it once and I''ll say it again: Jr. just doesn''t give a sh.it.
He''s there for himself and nothing else.

[ajmarine111]

Posted by ofbyfor1 at 01:16 AM : Jul 22, 2008

AJMarine111---Can I go to sleep know or are you still attempting to come up with a lucid and logical response?

I get reeeeeally tire of conversing here with people who can''''t respond when you call them on something!!!

It''''s not that I can''''t deal with people who have a different opinion from mine; it''''s that people who get called out on their opinions or facts don''''t have the guts to respond or have the honor to admit when they are wrong!

Have some cojones, gentlemen (if I can use THAT term loosely)!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by ofbyfor1 at 01:27 AM : Jul 22, 2008




I thought I gave you an answer, or asked you what you meant?