Taking Stock Of Our Economic Woes

Experts Say The Nation's Financial Straits Will Get Worse, And There Is No Consensus On What To Do About It

(CBS)  We're taking stock of our country's economic woes this morning. Everyone knows we've been through some tough times of late. But does anyone really know how to turn things around? Our cover story is reported by Rita Braver:

---

It was week of nerve-wracking economic news …

A run on a California bank … while the nation's two federally chartered mortgage giants turned up in need of a government rescue plan, a plan Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson described as being aimed at "supporting the stability of financial markets."

Stocks rallied, but only after weeks of losses. There was a new round of layoffs by General Motors. And even though oil prices fell a little, there was confirmation that inflation is on the rise. Consumer prices were up 1.1 % in June, while wages fell 2.4 percent over the past year.

Art Cashin, director of floor operations for UBS Financial Services, says it's been one of the most unstable periods he has seen in 45 years on the New York Stock Exchange.

"We're in what is called bear market territory," Cashin said. "We're down over 20 percent since October. We have very volatile moves where the stocks looked like they were going into absolute free fall. There were heart stopping moments here."

A new CBS News/New York Times poll finds that 80% of Americans believe the condition of the economy is bad.

The fallout continues. That once-booming housing market that we've all seen go bust …

Says Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the non-partisan Center for Economic and Policy Research, "That's the overwhelming cause of this recession. And that's because we built up an enormous bubble in home prices from 1996 to 2006. It was over eight trillion dollars of bubble wealth."

Weisbrot says that only about 40% of that bubble has deflated so far.

"So you're going to have a lot more foreclosures, a lot more writedowns in banks, possible bankruptcies."

By some estimates, banks may need to write off up to one trillion dollars in bad loans. One scary example: this past week's run on IndyMac, the California bank that went bust due to too many bad mortgage loans.

Marie Bonilla (left) is one of those who still hasn't been able to get her money out of the bank. She has three business accounts there, three personal accounts and a Roth. Her son has three accounts.

And she is angry: "At the Fed, at the greedy lenders, at the lying borrowers."

She says that she's had to cut hours for the employees of her small company that makes down and feather products. And because her name is on his account, her son Anthony, a Marine who has served in Iraq, can't withdraw the $6,000 he's been saving for a motorcycle.

"I can't get the money out, I can't touch it, and now my dreams are falling apart," he said.

Anthony and his mother still hope to get all their funds back. And no one is predicting the kind of bank failure fever that swept the country in the Great Depression.

But the turmoil of the week had President Bush trying to reassure Americans that the country is on solid economic ground.

"We can have confidence in the long term foundation of our economy, and I believe we will come through the challenge stronger than ever before," he said.

Not everyone was buying it.

In fact, the economy is still showing small signs of growth. But Matt Weisbrott says that with inflation up and wages down, that's little comfort:

"It's kind of like the guy who jumps out the window of a 60-story building, and he passes the 30th floor and he says, 'Everything's okay, so far.'"

Things are definitely not okay in places like Ravenna, Ohio, with businesses closing and workers laid off.

Dave Vaughan of the nonprofit Neighborhood Development Services says, "Home ownership counselors and our foreclosure specialists go through, day in and day out, hearing just terrible stories of people losing their houses, their dreams shattered."

Vaughan says that it's not just foreclosures.

"Most of the manufacturing jobs are simply disappearing," he said. "And the replacement jobs that are coming into play are much lower wage than they had been previous. As one of my colleagues said, the people who built the F-150 are now building Big Macs."

Last month, 37-year old Marianne Page, a single mother of two, lost her job as a production scheduler for a manufacturing company due to downsizing.

"It was hard, it was hard," she said. "The kids didn't really understand. Maybe a little bit, but they're young."

Now she scrimps on gas and groceries, and still can't find work.

"It just seems like everybody's swarming for the same jobs," she said. "It's just like one job and 100 people going for the same thing. It's just not a good thing."

And for many Americans the worst may be still to come.

Peter Schiff, president of Euro Pacific Capital which specializes in foreign investment, said, "We are going to have a lot more inflation. Unemployment is going to keep getting worse. Interest rates are going to go a lot higher. That is gong to make things worse. We are going to see a lot more bankruptcies, a lot more foreclosures, a lot of the big retailers cutting back and going out of business."

When Schiff first started predicting the bursting U.S. mortgage bubble, failure of financial firms and a steep rise in oil prices, he became known as "Dr. Doom."

"And people just dismissed, they almost laughed it off like it couldn't happen," he said.

He says that Washington and Wall Street have gotten it wrong for years:

"Our economy has been built on consumer credit, on borrowing and spending money," Schiff said. "The real foundation of an economy needs to be on savings, on under-consumption, and on production. We've got it backwards."

Now he forecasts that there will be a slowdown in consumption because, given the current economy, more of us are now unable to pay our credit card bills.

"And then it's going to be very difficult for Americans to get credit cards," he said. "Americans are going to see their limits dramatically reduced on the cards that they have, and so their ability to consume is going to be limited to the money in their checking account.

Though Schiff says lower consumption, whether it's of expensive homes or fancy consumer goods (especially on credit) would be good for the country, the view from Wall Street is different:

"What kind of impact does that have when consumers stop spending money?" Braver asked.

"That is the daily worry down here," Cashin said. "The American consumer is 70 percent of this economy, and if the consumer hits a brick wall and stops, then the economy all across the nation will be in serious trouble."

And almost everyone has a different view of how to get things back on track.

Some are calling for tighter regulations on financial institutions. Others say there are too many rules already.

Some economists and politicians want to let the market right itself. Others are calling for a government spending program to stimulate the economy

"Does anybody really have an answer for fixing the economy," Braver asked, "or is it all just a little bit of guess work? And maybe it'll take some luck?"

"It is probably much more the latter," Cashin said. "I'm afraid that it's Thanksgiving. They are all in the kitchen and there are no measuring cups. It's a little bit of this and little bit of that, so without the measuring cups, we're making it up as we go along."

[bucfish]

I liked your story this morning although it ended incorrectly. You said noone seemed to have the answer but yet their is a congressman from Texas called Ron Paul that does. He is an avid student of the Austrian School of Economic theory. The have a school in Alabama run by Lew Rockwell and called the Mises Institute. Named after Ludwig Von Mises the only man to predict and warn of the Great Depression and he did so in 1923 when the economy was booming, much like Paul he was called a "kook," but history now shows he wasn''t so "kooky" after all as it. That government intervention in the marketplace is the real cause of distortions in the market and that government policy and intervention is the real cause of this booms and crashes.

[jediservent]

I know this story is not about oil but since the high cost of oil is affecting our economy my post is relevant.

It is not in the best interest for Big Oil Companies and Wall Street Speculators to continue to raise oil cost. Oil is needed in "EVERY" stage of "PRODUCTS PRODUCED" and "SERVICES RENDERED" in our nation. Even if oil is not required in the direct manufacturing process it is still required to transport the product or the people that provide labor for the production process.

As oil cost has skyrocketed many companies have closed shop or cut back production and had to layoff workers. As a result of decreased production and layoffs oil demand will decrease. With more workers laid off and no income coming in our consumer spending will drop like a rock therefore requiring less oil.

Less oil will be needed now as the oil companies are putting us all out of business. The Speculators are in the same boat, their markets will shrink because of decreased consumer spending.

So what next? These greedy corporations and market makers have under estimated the American People. As long as prices were in check we were alright playing their game but now we will fight back. Already people have started using and developing Renewable Fuels, Solar and Wind Energy to replace oil and the companies that produce their byproducts.

We will succeed as long as we work together and not let greed enter this new this new Movement.

Woe to the Big Oil Companies%u2026.

[jmurrieta1]

"Experts Say The Nation''s Financial Straits Will Get Worse, And There Is No Consensus On What To Do About It"

To coin a phrase: Recovery begins when the Republicans lose their jobs.

[u-r-right]

Solution: Roll back NAFTA and other "free" trade agreements and encourage a re-birth of manufacturing in the USA, hiring workers and paying them a decent livable wage.

Suspend hiring of all illegal imigrants.

[underdogus71]

Suspend hiring of all illegal imigrants....Posted by u-r-right ..No problem, MEXICO will suspend the oil to the US and sell it to CHINA in EUROS hmm? American are the next generation of "********"...

[vnveteran72]

The Greed of the Ruling Elite has brought our Nation to the brink of Depression, and by all available evidence, it seems to be leaning toward falling off that brink. As the American people have cut back on their consumption of Gasoline and everything else to try and cope, Big Oil finds itself with an even larger surplus of unused domestic product. As a result, Crude is being shorted, and the bubble is bursting. If the American people continue to squeeze this Monster''s neck, it will die. Squeeze hard, America,......squeeze real hard.

[underdogus71]

I highly doubt it. Elites in the UNITED STATES have a vested interest in not improving the lives of their people. A failed state like the US ensures a steady flow of cheap labor across the border to MEXICO..

[underdogus71]

YEN UP,PESO UP,EURO UP,--the dollar down the plug hole

[iphyt4u]

It seems that Bush and the republicans are doing everything they can to extend the clock. By that, I mean that they''re going to dump all these problems on the Democrats in November. They keep proping up banks with taxpayer money, not to mention the $800 billion thats been spent in Iraq. This republican administration is the most fiscally irresponsible in the history of this great nation. George W. Bush, worst president ever.

[underdogus71]

a gal of gas in Mexico $2.35....

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by iphyt4u

$800 billion? try $3.5 trillion since the invasion began. $800 billion is just what can be accounted for, the rest was embezzled by the war profiteers.

[jon2012-2009]

I liked your story this morning although it ended incorrectly. You said noone seemed to have the answer but yet their is a congressman from Texas called Ron Paul that does. He is an avid student of the Austrian School of Economic theory. The have a school in Alabama run by Lew Rockwell and called the Mises Institute. Named after Ludwig Von Mises the only man to predict and warn of the Great Depression and he did so in 1923 when the economy was booming, much like Paul he was called a "kook," but history now shows he wasn''''''''t so "kooky" after all as it. That government intervention in the marketplace is the real cause of distortions in the market and that government policy and intervention is the real cause of this booms and crashes.
Posted by bucfish at 09:29 AM : Jul 20, 2008

You may love Ron Paul but you need more than what you''ve got to put him on a pedestal. Economy is not a hard science like physics and chemistry where a successful prediction is usually replicable. Did Von Mises produce any more valid predictions, did he come up with a theory that''s still held in high regard? The latter point is important because the world has probably changed fundamentally since his time. Ron Paul''s doctorate is nice, to be sure, but it''s only a starting point to measure the man.

[harpoot]

What''s the PC correct version of "economy in deep $hit"?? Probably a market correction, no need to worry.

LMAO

[hypnotoad72]

How to fix it?

First, define how our economy works. Really look at it.

Then the solutions shouldn''t be as difficult to fathom.

[vnveteran72]

You''ll notice the only "Protections" being offered up are for Banks and Corporate Entities. Proposed assistance for the Citizenry???:.....Make sure you pay your Car Payment so you''ll have a place to sleep out of the weather at night.....LMMFAO

[vnveteran72]

Within a month of 9-11, the SEC, acting in concert with the Department of Justice, distributed a target list of 38 stocks to securities firms around the world looking for information about who might have profited by at least apparent pre-knowledge of the aerial attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.


Like the proverbial bad penny, Lucky Larry Silverstein keeps popping up. He%u2019s back and he%u2019s bad again. Not content with the nearly $4.6 billion in insurance payments he received to cover his losses at the World Trade Center, he is now seeking $12.3 billion in damages from the airlines and airport security companies for the 9/11 attack in a suit filed in 2004.

Not tainted enough by the fact that Silverstein & Partners took out a lease for 99 years in July of 2001 on the WTC, two months before the attack . . . not content Larry & Partners upped the insurance at that time to $3.5 billion and (presciently) to cover potential hits by airliners flown by %u201Cterrorist hijackers%u201D . . .

And the Hits just keep on Rolling.......LMMFAO

[tryhonesty]

With the tax, spend, and borrow RepubliCONs and Bush-Cheney in power, and if RepubliCON McCain (McSAME) gets elected... this nation will remain in BIG TROUBLE! The crooks have been in charge...and America is living with the results.

[dougmsbbs]

This entire problem was made in D.C., and will be made even worse in D.C. They pass unwise regulations to fix the perceived problem of the moment, and make matters worse down the road. A few decades ago the problem they went after was home loans to minorities were made at unfair rates. So they change the rules to make it easy for unqualified borrowers to get loans. Now, when it''s been taken to the extream, they will pass more rules to swing it back the other way.
Meanwhile they went on a spending spree. The republicans went wild, and Bush lost his veto pen throughout his entire first term. The democrates saw all this money flowing, and went along happily as long as a good portion flowed into their pet projects.
Both sides are to blame. Now, with the ''bash Bush no matter the cost'' thinking the Dem''s have engaged in, we continue to sink.
There ARE solutions. But in an election year as bitter as this, it will never happen. If there was a magic solution that would set all this right in only a few months, do you think the Dem''s would take it? No, to improve the odds of getting the white house, they will let us sink. They need all this to be blamed on Bush, where truth be told a lot of it should reside.
We are going down, and fast. While Washington argues which deck the chairs should be on, the Titanic is going down...

[vnveteran72]

Remember people, on Election Day, vote out ALL Incumbents from BOTH Parties, and vote for NO Republicans. It''s the ONLY way to regain control from these Criminals. The present System is Rotten to the Core and Owned by K-Street.

[ruelsway]

Come on people, lets try giving the government
back to the people, perhaps they could be a little more
responsible than the idiots we have working for us in
Washington.
I know that if I don''t pay my bills that the retribution
will be swift and harsh, to the point where homelessness
is a reality.
Has our country reached the point of giving itself away to foreign interest and world banks.
Let us regroup and remember to take care of home first!

[dchu76]

I''''ll tell you what. This issue is waaay more important to us than Afghanistan or Iraq.
People need to get their priorities straight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by mortal3 at 12:43 PM : Jul 20, 2008

Iraq afghanistan are part of the equation, 10 billion is being wasted per month there. Political instability in that region has driving the gas prices to the current prices. And bush economics have devalued our standing in the world and foriegn contries arent buying our tresury bonds like they once did.

[vnveteran72]

On the Bright Side, not one of the Associates of the Bush/Cheney Crime Cartel are feeling the slightest bit of pain from the current economic implosion.
In fact, they''re sitting on so much War Profiteering Cash and Big Oil Booty, that they''ll soon be able to purchase the entire Nation for Peanuts......LMMFAO

[ruelsway]

Come on people, lets try giving the government
back to the people, perhaps they could be a little more
responsible than the idiots we have working for us in
Washington.
I know that if I don''t pay my bills that the retribution
will be swift and harsh, to the point where homelessness
is a reality.
Has our country reached the point of giving itself away to foreign interest and world banks.
Let us regroup and remember to take care of home first!

[vnveteran72]

And bush economics have devalued our standing in the world and foriegn contries arent buying our tresury bonds like they once did.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by dchu76 at 12:56 PM : Jul 20, 2008
+ report abuse

It''s hard to interest people in purchasing passage on a ship that''s sinking at the dock right behind the Ticket Counter......LMMFAO

[xlib]

Love all the hand wringing, professed sympathy for the average working American family but hey, nothing on the proposed gas tax hike from your dem held, 9% approval rating, congress. Where''s that story.
Some of us do realize the same congress and their msm shills will continue on this path until the election. AND THEN, hold onto your wallets cause we''ll be taxed up the ying yang.
And say, thanks chuckie schumer and his dem buddies for DEMANDING that everyone get a chance at the American dream and lending money to people who can''t pay it back.

[darylib]

It''s too late.

Barak won''t save us. McCain won''t save us. The only thing we have to look forward to is more war and death. It''s a shame really. We had so much going for us. Oh well. All good things must come to an end. I suppose it''s just our time.

There is still a glimmer of hope though. It rests with the GOP delegates to the republican convention. I doubt very much that they''ll do the right thing. It would take the courage of a UA flight 93 passenger.

[bluestardad]

THE REPUBLICANS BORROWING TRILLIONS FROM CHINA TO FUND THEIR WAR IN IRAQ!

GIVING ISRAEL 30 BILLION A YEAR!

OIL MEN RUNNING THE WHITE HOUSE GIVING AMERICA 4 DOLLAR GAS!

WONDER WHERE WE GOT IN THIS SHAPE?

[ruelsway]

Why don''t we seek the counsel of some of the same slick
advertisement firms that sell us everything from soap
to time-shares to evaluate and recommend a more desirable heading for this country. I think that
a more green attitude along with a more humanitarian
effort would go a long way to cure the way the world
views this country.
Remember a good name is better than all the riches
in the world, and much more difficult to shatter.
Let us stand by the virtues on which this Great
Country was built, who else gives us these wonderful
rights that we are letting slip through our fingers by
the cries of a few politicians that continuously cry
wolf, and all the while they continue to profit
enormously.

[pvperson]

Xlib, that 9% congress is half republican. Remember them, the people that were in charge 100% of the last 8 years. As usual, neo-con, you try and blame the democrats for what you republicans have created. Do you people EVER take responsibility for your own actions. Bush''s policy, Bush''s war, Bush''s incompetence appointees have put us in this place, not the democrats. Wise up, jerk.

[ghostcommand]

First--Stop the GD Spinning---2. Restructure downward to where the consumer can buy what is being produced---3. Regulate, Regulate, and Regulate. The USA GDP economy is over $14,000,000,000,000 and the write downs that need to be taken are approximately $1,000,000,000,000, which is only 7%. There needs to be a permanent trickle down, and not just a temporary stimulus to put money into the pocketbook of the consumer. Lower interest rates on credit cards, student loans, auto loans, and so on. Cut the ridiculously high fees associated with closings, banks, and so on. Re-instate the taxes on the wealthiest--they have been the primary beneficiaries of the boom and they have caused the problem--Stand Up and do your part. Tell the manufacturers that have located to foreign companies to come home or tax them out of existence. We need action--not the Spinning, Spinning, and more Spinning.

[condumbism]

Xlib

We all know that Congress has a 9% approval because of the Republicon obstructionists that will be thrown out of office in November. That fatassed repiglicon radical Nazi Senator from Oklahoma is gonnatossed out in November, while the entire country celebrates his demise.

[iphyt4u]

Xlib You make the assumption that Democrats will raise taxes. Which American that you know of, jumps up and down and says great higher taxes. The fact of the matter is , is that Democrats want to use money more efficiently. All of the money spent in Iraq could have gone to health care. Imagine how the business community would have grown if we had taken the burden of health insurance off of businesses shoulders. The economy is the result of republican leadership. The Congress that was elected in 2006 decided to give Bush plenty of rope. It''s just ashame that Bush and the republicans hung themselves with it.

[darylib]

The republicans could have never gotten away with what they did if it were not for the democrats (at least enough of them) writing a republican blank check.

What have the democrats done to stop them? Name one thing. Nothing.

Americans elected democrats in the last election to stop the war. The democrats didn%u2019t do a thing.

Quite the contrary. They gave the republicans everything they wanted and more. As long as they got their little slice of the pie, it was fine with them. Impeachment was/is off the table.

All this republican/democratic back biting is exactly what they want. Divide and conquer. We give them a 9% approval rating. Yet I%u2019m sure they think even less of us, and with good reason.

[ubrew12]

Xlib said: "the same congress and their msm shills will continue on this path until the election. AND THEN, hold onto your wallets cause we''''ll be taxed up the ying yang."

I''ll take a tax and spend liberal over a dont-tax and spend conservative any day. I know which one is throwing my kids the finger.

Schiff: "...The real foundation of an economy needs to be on savings, on under-consumption, and on production. We''ve got it backwards..."

Schiff''s tortured logic: focus on MORE production and LESS consumption at the same time. Even if more production means more capital goods, as opposed to consumer goods, even that tack in the near term expands "output".

Capitalism is ready for the dumpster. What''s wrong with a PLANNED (aka, "RATIONAL" economy) as opposed to this completely chaotic system we have that lurches from one crisis to the next while NEVER FAILING to benefit wealthy leeches who are numerically small but end up stealing the lion''s share of output.

Socialism today, socialism tomorrow, socialism forever!!

[ramos937]

It''s kind of like the guy who jumps out the window of a 60-story building, and he passes the 30th floor and he says, ''Everything''s okay, so far.''"
-----------------------------------------

Bush is part of the problem because he will not admit there is a problem or how severe it is.

No one can do anything constructive to solve our economic problems until the full extent of the problem is known and nobody really knows or wants to really know.

To even begin, two very important determinations have to be made - What is the true size of our national debt and what is our true annual deficit(s). I feel that the answers will terribly shock everyone.

[dishsrvdcold]

The United States is the promised land. It is the inheritance promised to Abraham and his seed. I dare you to read Deuteronomy chapter 28 to find out why are difficulties are just beginning and what your future will be.

[omega39-2009]

"It just seems like everybody''s swarming for the same jobs," she said. "It''s just like one job and 100 people going for the same thing. It''s just not a good thing."

Whoa, hold on there, aren''t our fearless leaders assuring us that the economy is at almost full employment? It''s obvious that this woman is suffering a mental recession and according to Phil (let them eat cake) Gramm, is a Whiner to boot.

[vnveteran72]

This is a carefully planned operation of the "War on Terra". As soon as the entire Nation is broke and living on the streets, the Illegal Domestic Spying will finally pay off, because no one but Terra''sts will have a phone.....these guys are Geniuses.....

[eddom949]

People want money. Churches are being destroyed. What''s the economy, stupid? Oh, you''re starving. You don''t look like it. If you can take out the loan, you can pay it off. Time to get with the program. This is still the greatest nation EVER

[bucfish]

You may love Ron Paul but you need more than what you''''ve got to put him on a pedestal. Economy is not a hard science like physics and chemistry where a successful prediction is usually replicable. Did Von Mises produce any more valid predictions, did he come up with a theory that''''s still held in high regard? The latter point is important because the world has probably changed fundamentally since his time. Ron Paul''''s doctorate is nice, to be sure, but it''''s only a starting point to measure the man.
by jon2012


Unfortunately most people do not understand Free Market theory. They buy into these greedy Politicians and their friend on wall streets illusion that government must be involved. Guess what it doesn''t. Economics and markets are like a science. When you get man out of centro economic planning and politics out of it. Regulate by holding people to a standard, and usually that standard is a measure in Gold. Since historically only 2% of gold is added to the market place each year going back to the beginning of time. Man manipulates that is man''s inherit nature, ignoring this fact is completely abandoning reason and logic. And to do that is to do at mankind''s risk.

[bucfish]

Schiff: "...The real foundation of an economy needs to be on savings, on under-consumption, and on production. We''''ve got it backwards..."

Schiff''''s tortured logic: focus on MORE production and LESS consumption at the same time. Even if more production means more capital goods, as opposed to consumer goods, even that tack in the near term expands "output".

Capitalism is ready for the dumpster. What''''s wrong with a PLANNED (aka, "RATIONAL" economy) as opposed to this completely chaotic system we have that lurches from one crisis to the next while NEVER FAILING to benefit wealthy leeches who are numerically small but end up stealing the lion''''s share of output.

Socialism today, socialism tomorrow, socialism forever!!
by kgainer

You obviously do not follow history. Socialism has never worked, just look at France, 30% unemployment for those under 30 years old. Socialism is tyranny. It only benefits those on top. You are mistaken if you think that we have a Capitalist Society or Free Markets. We have the Fed dictating our interests rates thereby controlling our money supply. We have more regulations than China! We are no longer nor have we been Capitalists for over a Hundred Years! Stop buying into the brainwashing you probably received at one of our wonderful socialist propaganda machines that we call Universities.

[ubrew12]

bucfish said: "You are mistaken if you think that we have a Capitalist Society or Free Markets. "
Since the Great Depression we''ve replaced free markets with open markets: that is, we regulate them to remain open to everyone, so secret or insider trading is, by law, illegal. Then we hire cops (SEC) to police the market and ensure the laws are being followed. We get into these kinds of predatory situations WHENEVER we forget the lessons of the past and turn an open market (like the mortgage lending market) into a free market (free to be ripped off by unscrupulous lenders).

Republicans has been turning open markets into free markets successfully for 15 years (mostly by refusing the fund the cops that enforce the laws), and the result is the disaster we see before us.

The danger of socialism is: who''s watching the watchers (i.e. the cops)? They''re supposed to regulate capitalism, and can become too entrenched, becoming a force in their own right.

For example, in California, three-strikes legislation has resulted in a massive boom in prison-building. Attempts have been made to relax the law to reduce the senseless incarceration of non-violent criminals, but there''s been a politically effective and steadfast resistance to these changes by, guess who, the all-powerful prison guards union. and woe to any politician who crosses them!

[bucfish]

Republicans has been turning open markets into free markets successfully for 15 years (mostly by refusing the fund the cops that enforce the laws), and the result is the disaster we see before us.

The danger of socialism is: who''''s watching the watchers (i.e. the cops)? They''''re supposed to regulate capitalism, and can become too entrenched, becoming a force in their own right.

For example, in California, three-strikes legislation has resulted in a massive boom in prison-building. Attempts have been made to relax the law to reduce the senseless incarceration of non-violent criminals, but there''''s been a politically effective and steadfast resistance to these changes by, guess who, the all-powerful prison guards union. and woe to any politician who crosses them!

Unions have no place in free markets as it is up to each and every Individual to negotiate their employment agreement. Unions are socialististic by nature as they promote Collectivism. Republicans are mainly Neocons. Neoconservativism is collectivism light. Ron Paul is a true Republican not what you and I have know as a Republican. The Neocons have overan the GOP. Google Leo Strauss, priofessor at Uni at Chicago or even Trotsky a marxist that had a divide upon Lenin and was then exiled by Lenin.

[samthetvcat]

---"We are going to have a lot more inflation. Unemployment is going to keep getting worse. Interest rates are going to go a lot higher. That is gong to make things worse. We are going to see a lot more bankruptcies, a lot more foreclosures, a lot of the big retailers cutting back and going out of business."---

omg, everybody''s starting to talk like that now - and it''s not just happening here at home, the whole world''s being affected.

Okay, yeah probably oil/gas prices WILL come down because demand is going to come down - all the markets are tied to each other. $3/gal of gas may be the new $4/gal!

Maybe Wall Street will start shifting to bonds? money market? Putting their $ bills under their mattresses? :o

[samthetvcat]

---"Our economy has been built on consumer credit, on borrowing and spending money," Schiff said. "The real foundation of an economy needs to be on savings, on under-consumption, and on production. We''ve got it backwards."---

This isn''t necessarily socialism he''s advocating, isn''t he just saying the idea that underpinned opening up trade with developing nations to access cheap labor is faulty? Like wasn''t the concept behind a US-China trade deal that we had ''evolved'' past production and were now a service-industry economy who could delegate physical jobs to other countries where labor is cheap? Which has therefore turned us into a consumption-driven economy.

Maybe the red flag was that all that easy access to credit wasn''t being invested in business ventures which create jobs and provide a steady stream of profit-making revenue as a result of an idea or a product - it was just used to buy stuff. Like if homes were being bought for investment purposes at levels such that they could turn a profit right away because rent revenue was sufficient to cover costs including the mortgage, that would have been one thing - but to buy it with it turning into a profit-maker being completely dependent on the bubble continuing, that''s not the sign of a healthy economy, is it?

It''ll be interesting to see what kind of ideas Romney brings to the dialogue if/when he''s announced VP!

[bucfish]

Look stoog, what do you think a corporation is? It is a group of individuals who come together to strengthen their power to dictate the rules, not ''''negotiate''''. You do not have a problem with shareholders coming together to empower each other, but heaven forbid the common laborer should be more than naked and scared in a massive pool of unemployed begging for work.

The Tycoon is nothing without his workforce and do not let Butfish tell you otherwise.

by curse914


Smearing nice tactic, curse. Unfortunately I have truth reason and logic on MY side. Corporations are individual until they get lobbying control of the GOVERNMENT. Those regulations that sound so good are not that good unless you are a lobbyist. So many elected officials do not even read their bills upon which they vote on, much less do they write them. Lobbyists do that for them. Capitalism and this lobbyists system could never coexist. If it does that is not capitalism but rather socialism. Rebut if you can!

[anarchristia]

"It''s a little bit of this and little bit of that, so without the measuring cups, we''re making it up as we go along." That''s all the wisdom NYSE veteran Art Cashin could muster up for Rita Braver. The dominant impression of her report is that we%u2019ll have to continue to muddle along because no one really understands economics. Too bad in addition to interviewing Peter Schiff, dubbed "Dr. Doom" by those who are convinced that consumption underpins production, Rita Braver didn''t also talk to "Dr. No." i.e., Congressman Ron Paul, who''s been explaining right-side-up economics in plain English for thirty years, even just this past week to Fed chief Bernancke. American prefer pragmatism to principle, however, and so they''re about to be rewarded with a dollop of what precisely does NOT "work."

[daysrnumbrd]

Unions...
Free Market(s)...
Government...
Corporations...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely!

[u-r-right]

Fair trade above free trade.