Pilots Claim Pressure To Use Less Fuel

Union: US Airways Wants Pilots To Use Less Fuel Than They Feel Is Safe To Save Money

(AP)  The pilots union for US Airways said Wednesday the airline is pressuring pilots to use less fuel than they feel is safe in order to save money.

US Airways Captain James Ray, a spokesman for the US Airline Pilots Association, which represents the airline's 5,200 pilots, said eight senior pilots and the union have filed complaints with the Federal Aviation Administration.

The union also paid for a full-page ad in Wednesday's USA Today addressed to "our valued passengers." The ad accuses the airline of "a program of intimidation to pressure your captain to reduce fuel loads."

Ray said soaring jet fuel prices have sent all the airlines scrambling to find ways to cut the weight of airliners because the heavier the plane, the more fuel the plane burns. US Airways, based in Tempe, Ariz., has recently removed movie players, redesigned its meal carts and replaced glassware with plastic to cut weight.

Jet fuel has surpassed labor as the airline industry's greatest expense.

But US Airways recently crossed the line when it ordered eight pilots who requested "an extra 10 to 15 minutes worth of fuel" to attend training sessions, or "check rides," that could put their pilot licenses in jeopardy, Ray said. The pilots were supposed to report for their training sessions Wednesday, he said.

"We feel they're trying to set an example," Ray said. "Captains shouldn't be intimidated into thinking, 'If I say I need this fuel, they may send me for a check ride.' ... Cutting peanuts off the plane, that's one thing. But cutting a captain's fuel level below his comfort, that's another thing."

US Airways spokesman Morgan Durrant said the decision to bring in the eight pilots for extra training was not meant to be punitive. "That's totally not true," he said.

During the past few years, the carrier has required its planes to carry enough fuel to pad their flight times by 60 to 90 minutes, Durrant said.

"These eight pilots have routinely been above the 60 to 90 minute range. It just behooves us as a company to talk to these guys, figure out what they're seeing that we're not," Durrant said.

FAA regulations require aircraft to carry enough fuel to reach their destination and an alternate destination, plus 45 minutes worth of fuel, FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown said. Also, pilots have the final authority on whether their flight should have extra fuel.

Brown said she is unaware of any specific complaints filed by US Airways pilots or their union, but FAA has been monitoring reports of "minimum fuel loads" at some airports.

"We don't see any evidence right now that there are violations of the regulation," Brown said.

US Airways has studied how much fuel its planes really need to carry, Durrant said. "The heavier an aircraft is, the more fuel it burns, and one of the heaviest portions of an aircraft can be fuel," he said.

US Airways is also buying more fuel efficient aircraft and cutting inefficient routes from its network. Still, an average roundtrip flight costs about $299 worth of fuel per passenger, company officials said.

[txgrouch2006]

"These eight pilots have routinely been above the 60 to 90 minute range. It just behooves us as a company to talk to these guys, figure out what they''re seeing that we''re not," Durrant said.
--------------
Oh, so it just THOSE EIGHT GUYS. What a relief.

Let me guess - those are the EIGHT MOST EXPERIENCED PILOTS, and they''ve had the experience of landing with just a cup of fuel left in the tank because SOMETHING UNEXPECTED HAPPENED...

Yah, punish your most experienced guys. What you REALLY need is some less experienced pilots...

[whitemale08]

Da** this is worse then what a lot of 3rd world countries do.

Folks, we haven''t seen anything yet, the jeapordizing of our safety has just begun.

And just to let you Republicans know something, there''s plenty of growth in the economy of 3rd world countries. Take China for instance when growth over there is 10.1%. That''s alot of growth but would you want to work in China? No so what makes you think this economy is so fantastic?

It doesn''t make sense. Tell the patriotism pastors like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh the truth; and that this economy stinks!

[l8c6]

It doesn''''t make sense. Tell the patriotism pastors like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh the truth; and that this economy stinks!

Posted by whitemale08



works for them, they fly private jets. In america, you just have to be in the top 10% to feel all warm and fuzzy...at least for now.

[l8c6]

Scarborough says the masses are the far, far, far, far, angry left, Phil Graham, republicon from Texas who keeps his money tax free in Swiss bank UBS where he is a chairman says we are all just a bunch of whiners, George Will agrees.

[l8c6]

Yah, punish your most experienced guys. What you REALLY need is some less experienced pilots...

Posted by txgrouch2006

The experienced pilots know. The inexperienced can be bulldozed.

[eddom949]

Run ''em on alcohol or refined coal, the Air Force has done this, actually any carbon source would do, using the Fleischer-Tropsch process (see Wikipedia). Or solar

[whatinthewld]

whitemale08 - I haven''t heard or read anything about republicans saying the economy is so "fantastic" as you put it! China''s economy is boosting because we have sent all our companies to their country, cause their people can do the work for a fraction of the price. Then our folks loose their jobs because their work either went to China or an illegal immigrant is doing it. Now all you find in Wal Mart is "Made in China" stuff that falls apart before you get it home.

so, Republican President, Democratic PResident or independent..........we need to bring our jobs back to the USA, we need to send illegals home, employ the legal immigrants and bring jobs back to america......producing products that will last because we can once again be proud of our nation.

[whatinthewld]

Airlines need to adjust the ticket price to cover their costs instead of cutting there services.

Not too long from now we will all be using flying lawnchairs if they don''t quit complaining.

[whatinthewld]

Boycott CHINA!! - Boycott the Olympics, Boycott purchasing their products - toys are dangerous for our children........most products are cheap and fall apart, toys to electronics and ......."you name it" - usually it''s JUNK!

[whitemale08]

jobs back to america......producing products that will last because we can once again be proud of our nation.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by whatinthewld at 12:20 AM : Jul 17, 2008-

I hear ya brotha, I agree. I just get sick of these politicians or radio personalities rather right or left that everything is fantastic or stop your whinning or that I shouldn''t be bitter.

the only people who say that are the rich and the only way America''s middle class can become richer is to bring our jobs back home.

We the middle class did not demand "free trade", "globization", N.A.F.T.A. none of that nonsense.

Wall Street demanded "free trade" and "globization" nonsense.

[sistatee-2009]

Time for a hybrid plane; runs on jet fuel and a very, very long electric cord.

[nothappyatall]

LOL they cut out a movie center to save fuel, has anyone looked up what the dam plane WEIGHS?

The 747-400 wing each weighs 95,000 pounds
A 747-400 consists of 147,000 pounds (66,150 kg) of high-strength aluminum.

A 747-400 that flies 3,500 statute miles (5,630 km) and carries 126,000 pounds (56,700 kg) of fuel will consume an average of five gallons (19 L) per mile.

As any idiot can see, 500 pounds is like taking a notepad out of your car to save fuel on a trip.

[nothappyatall]

A 747-400 that flies 3,500 statute miles (5,630 km) and carries 126,000 pounds (56,700 kg) of fuel will consume an average of five gallons (19 L) per mile.


All that fuel WASTED to do nothing more permanent or productive than transporting aunt Mildred''s fat azz over 4 state lines just to have a thanksgiving dinner and then return on Monday.

[donnie700-2009]

Yah but thats 5 gallons per mile of transporting 400 people and umpteen tons of cargo. You can''t compare a jumbo to a suv. Its not the same thing..

[nothappyatall]

The empty weight of the 747-400 is 393,200 pounds, and its maximum takeoff weight is 910,000 pounds.

[donnie700-2009]

The most ergonomical mode of transportation is high speed rail.

[donnie700-2009]

But even a high speed train going 300 mph is half the speed of a jumbo jet. And thats what yer paying fer.. That convenience of hoping on a giant bus, and 4 hours later being on the other end''a the country. As apposed to 3 days later..

[donnie700-2009]

The most economical car on the planet gets 60mpg. It carries 4 people. Divide that by 100, and ya get a half a mile a gallon. Add 300 tons of cargo, and likely you''ll git alot worse than 5 gallons per mile..

[nothappyatall]

Yah but thats 5 gallons per mile of transporting 400 people and umpteen tons of cargo. You can''''t compare a jumbo to a suv. Its not the same thing..

Posted by donnie700 "

No one is comparing a plane to an suv, the issue is it''s STILL wasted fuel for nothing more productive than moving people around and back, often for very trivial reasons. Then there is the polution from burning all those TONS of fuel.
If it was burnt fuel that was used for something productive like food production, or permanent like building low-income housing that''s a different story, but just transporting someone''s fat azz to go sight seeing is a total waste of limited fossil fuel and that waste and demand drives up prices etc.

A significant amount of fuel is wasted just transporting people, NOT heating your home, growing food or producing goods.

If the choice came down to you heating your home this winter or taking a trivial airplane trip , which would you choose?

Planes do not always fly full either- loads of empty seats.

[donnie700-2009]

Who allocates what people pay for? Its theirs. If they want to waste it, so be it! Its paid for.

[donnie700-2009]

"Planes do not always fly full either- loads of empty seats."

Well then that theres the problem. Planes should be equiped with compartmented people modules. And if there''s not enough people in that flight? Take the module out, and use it fer cargo.

[nothappyatall]

But even a high speed train going 300 mph is half the speed of a jumbo jet
Posted by donnie700"

By that logic I guess if you could get from Miami to LA a few hours faster we should burn down the redwood forests to do it.
Before commercial airplanes a coast to coast trip took WEEKS. When you figure the time messing with airports, security, checkin, getting TO the airport, parking, the trip time itself is trivial even if the trip time was doubled by the plane flying half the speed they do now to save fuel.
Most people dont NEED to fly coast to coast, they may go from Miami to Daytona or LA to Portland Oregon. A few more hours isn''t going to make any difference.

Now multiply that fuel use per plane by how many FLIGHTS per day go on- THOUSANDS, and the picture becomes clearer as does the waste.

Business meetings do not have to always be done in person, the trouble today with people is they are SPOILED and it''s too easy to hop on a plane and take a trip for some stupid reason. Commercial air travel WILL come to a halt at some point when the costs are too high and these conglomerates who built the huge infrastructures, terminals and employ 20,000 can''t stay in business.
When fuel hits $10 a gallon few are going to pay $1,000 for a ticket and the airlines will start folding and that will be the end of this love affair with formerly cheap air flights for trivial reasons.

[jw218389]

Now we know why many of my pilot friends call them US SCARE!!!

Sounds like they are trading safety for profits in my opinion....

[nothappyatall]

Who allocates what people pay for? Its theirs. If they want to waste it, so be it! Its paid for.

Posted by donnie700

Not quite, when that waste polutes EVERYONE''S air and uses up resources the rest of the population needs. Your trip to LA is wasting fuel that someone may not be able to buy to use to heat their house- oil is a FINITE supply, and every gallon burned adds to the air polution.

[donnie700-2009]

Yer telling me that somebody who buys an airline ticket is responsible for polluting the skies?

[bron-yr-aur]

strict control on luggage is the single most effective way to reduce fuel costs. One checked bag, with weight limits and ONE carry-on with STRICT size limits would go a long way.

[daysrnumbrd]

The wealthy oil speculators can drive the price of oil (and gas) through the roof many times over. They have no need to care, as they have their own planes with their own pilots and maintenance crews. They can "filler up" whenever and wherever they like.

Their only concern is if a airliner full of us serfs crashes on one of their ranches or golf courses.

Oh, and their other concern is how much your safety gets in the way of their profits!

[jlagat]

so, Republican President, Democratic PResident or independent..........we need to bring our jobs back to the USA, we need to send illegals home, employ the legal immigrants and bring jobs back to america......producing products that will last because we can once again be proud of our nation.

--------------------------

Posted by whatinthewld at 12:20 AM : Jul 17, 2008

Too much effort; if it can''t be accomplished in one day, most Americans wouldn''t go for it.

[fstop100]

If the government made it illegal to speculate on oil prices, this would not happen But then the big oil companies would not have record profits either.

[tootall10142]

smithli65 do your advertising some where else this not a commercial site for making money. If we want to hear your mother talk nasty we know where she lives and how much she charges.

[antoniof123]

How much do you want to bet the airlines get away with it then in a few months their is an accident and they blame it on human error.

Then of courese these CEO''s will run to the government and ask to be forgiven by some law. Dam we deserve better it is really getting out of hand.

[greennnnnn-2009]

If the government made it illegal to speculate on oil prices, this would not happen But then the big oil companies would not have record profits either.
******************************************
The government cannot make it illegal for the entire planet to speculate on oil prices. What are you gonna do about everyone speculating who does not live in the United States?

[rf35]

strict control on luggage is the single most effective way to reduce fuel costs. One checked bag, with weight limits and ONE carry-on with STRICT size limits would go a long way.

Posted by bron-yr-aur at 06:13 AM : Jul 17, 2008

That won''t work. I''d just mail the other bags ahead. UPS flies, too.

[johnax88]

If our government would buy directly from the government that is producing the oil and then sell it to our oil companies that would at least take us out of the "free"/controlled market.

I see little value of the "free market" when it has the ability to bring down the entire financial structure of the world and send the world into a tailspin, including starvation because of the cost of food.

[b0ludo]

These good old boys just want to continue doing things the old way. It was only a handful of pilots that got called on their piggish habits. Kudos to U.S. Airways for calling in these dinosaurs and getting them retrained.

[shanev137]

Regardless of this, you still need to have your head examined if you fly US Airways anymore.

[bobnjersey]

[Also, pilots have the final authority on whether their flight should have extra fuel. ]

so what''s the issue? if they have final authority on what needs to be available ... then the airline should shut-up and give them what they have the authority to request.

[isotron-2009]

ANY pilot knows that extra fuel gives you extra time and extra time gives you OPTIONS if the flight encounters anything unexpected. Fuel optimization is RISK and pilots are within their rights to refuse. They may get fired, but they will be alive and so will a hundred or more other passengers. The pilots take the risks, the "bean counters" take no risks. Sorry fuel is so expensive, but you can''t pull off to the side at 40,000 ft.

[bobnjersey]

[so, Republican President, Democratic PResident or independent..........we need to bring our jobs back to the USA, we need to send illegals home, employ the legal immigrants and bring jobs back to america......producing products that will last because we can once again be proud of our nation.]
[Posted by whatinthewld at 12:20 AM : Jul 17, 2008]

so i assume you''re prepared to pay alot more for whay you buy ... clothes, food, phone, tv, cars, etc?

i assume you''d be prepared to go without those things that aren''t made here anymore ... until there''s justification for doing so.

no more shopping in walmart, target, costco, bjs, sams, koles, etc. you''ll have to read labels for products you buy anywhere else.

[marcpcbs]

Today the Airlines are cutting back of fuel because of costs. Lets hope that tomorrow they don''t cut back on Pilot training as a cost control measure.

[demslie]

Of course CBS (Communist Broadcast System) did not mention that this "Story" came from the ususal sources. The Democrats Unions are in full Political Mode and of course took out a Full Page Ad in the Democrats NYT to announce thier concerns to "our passengers" in hope of getting votes for Democrats and their Unions. This all Democrats Lies and Cheats for votes.

[coppertales]

UPS flies the same kind of planes that you and I fly on. The only difference is UPS takes the seats out. You just don''t get a bunch of flack and lip service from a pallet of boxes. They have something there.

On fuel, ATC does alot of re-routing of flights once they are in the air, most usually due to weather. Some airlines are treated more fairly than others during this re-route process. Give an ATC controller some flack and you will be re-routed 500 miles out of your way for nothing....

[kphx]

US Airways spokesman Morgan Durrant said the decision to bring in the eight pilots for extra training was not meant to be punitive. "That''s totally not true," he said.

Yeah right. That''s partially true. *** these pilots. How dare they consider safety over profit. Need to let them know that they can lose thier licenses for such activities. I for one fully support that we stay from US Airways.

[alphaa10-2009]

A black eye and a sow''s ear to US Airways for its idiotically unsafe policy on fuel economy. A decade of efforts to improve the airline''s image just took a nosedive.

Apparently, profits count more than passenger safety. Can you imagine the negative publicity?

US Airways operators should prepare their scripts--

1. "I am sorry, sir/m''am. The airliner went down because it met an unscheduled headwind, and used up all its remaining fuel. Unfortunately, these things happen, but we''ll schedule another flight as soon as we can clear the runway."

2. "I am sorry, sir/m''am. Your captain was taken off your flight for an urgent appointment with personnel. We will find another captain, as soon as possible, whose professional standards meet our requirements-- like an auditor or accountant."

3. "I am sorry, sir/m''am. We had to cancel your flight because US Airways did not project enough profit for your flight to take off today. Actually, you are fortunate-- we recalled another flight halfway en route to Kansas City."

[cburn665]

Good bye US Airways, I want be flying (dying)on any of your planes!

[cburn665]

now that was funny DaVicar2...

[cburn665]

ooops, I meant WON''T...

[frankbowers]

;-)

[frankbowers]

What do the companies think the pilots are doing with the extra fuel in the air, selling it to a competitor up there. This is sick the plane goes up with filled tanks and comes down with what ever is left over unless it is a short flight and then less fuel so as to reduce the weight on take off. The company leaders, managers, and CEO"s need to reduce their big bonus so as to help; why they even get bonus is beyond me they have a job and they do it like a man shoveling rock on the road he get x $ an hour and not one penny more why do these CEO''s need the bonus the managers likewise they have a job and signed on to do it for x $ why give them a bonus why not reduce the cost of the clients fees, that would make more folks happy and the airlines would have more business and fewer empty seats.

[dougmsbbs]

Come on, guys, lets work together here. Is it really going to hurt you to shut down while your still 100 feet in the air? You can glide the rest of the way, and we''ll save money!
To lighten the load even more, all passengers are now required to hand over their wallets before getting on the plane. Woman with jewelry will please put it in the basket now being handed around...