Candidates Set To Tackle Social Security?

Washington Post: Obama, McCain Are Both Proposing Dramatic Changes

(Washingtonpost.com)  This story was written by Perry Bacon Jr..

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Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain are both proposing dramatic changes to Social Security, taking on the financially fragile "third rail of American politics" that Congress and recent presidents have been unable to repair.

McCain's aides said he favors a bipartisan approach and is open to working with Congress on finding a solution to the long-term solvency of the New Deal-era program, indicating he could support an array of ideas such as raising the retirement age, reducing scheduled increases in benefits and allowing younger workers to put money they currently pay for Social Security taxes into personal savings accounts. President Bush floated a similar idea for private accounts in 2005, but polls found it had little public support.

Obama has been even more specific. The Democrat from Illinois has proposed raising taxes on upper-income Americans to address projected shortfalls in Social Security, but his plan has been greeted with skepticism, even from some in his own party.

Under current law, income up to $102,000 a year is taxed for Social Security, and Obama would create a "doughnut hole" by not imposing new Social Security taxes on income between $102,000 and $250,000. His aides said income exceeding $250,000 would be taxed at a rate of 2 percent to 4 percent, rather than the 6 percent tax that people pay toward Social Security on income below the $102,000 cutoff, which is matched by their employer's paying a 6 percent tax. Employers would probably pay an additional tax from 2 percent to 4 percent.

Experts predict that proposal would make up less than half of the $4.3 trillion shortfall Social Security is expected to face over the next 75 years.

Combined with Obama's proposed increases on income taxes for upper-income Americans and state taxes, Republicans argue, individuals who make more than $250,000 could face close to 50 cents in taxes on every dollar that they earned over $250,000 under a President Obama.

"If you believe you should pay more taxes, I am the wrong candidate for you. Senator Obama is your man," McCain said in a speech as he began an economic-themed campaign tour in Denver yesterday. "The choice in this election is stark and simple. Senator Obama will raise your taxes. I won't. I will cut them where I can. Jobs are the most important thing our economy creates. When you raise taxes in a bad economy, you eliminate jobs. I'm not going to let that happen."

At a news conference in St. Louis, Obama said that the Republican senator from Arizona offered policies that "are very much the same as those we have seen from the Bush administration."

Some Democrats are questioning Obama's decision to address Social Security at all. The program is expected to bring in less in taxes than it disburses in benefits sometime in the next decade, although the Social Security Board of Trustees estimates that interest on the program's bond holdings will keep it from running a deficit until at least 2041.

"From the standpoint of the Democratic Party, I would think it would make the most sense to leave it alone," said Dean Baker, an Obama supporter and co-director of the D.C.-based Center for Economic and Policy Research. "It's not an immediate, pressing issue."

Jason Furman, Obama's economic policy director, emphasized that the proposal is flexible and said that Obama would work with Congress to come up with any proposal on the topic. Furman said the campaign has not determined the extent to which Obama would raise taxes or whether people who made more than $250,000 would receive additional benefits.

Obama has ruled out raising the retirement age or reducing benefits, two other ideas some in Congress have touted for fixing the program.

"He's setting forth a proposal about where he would start for Social Security solvency that is far more specific and concrete than anything proposed by a presidential nominee in recent memory," Furman said. Bush offered ideas on the issue in 2000, including the idea of individual retirement accounts.

During the Democratic primaries, Obama criticized Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.) for not giving a specific proposal on Social Security.

"Conventional thinking in Washington says that Social Security is the third rail of American politics," Obama said in October. "It says you should hedge, and dodge and spin, but at all costs, don't answer."

At the time, he said he would consider applying the payroll tax to all income, which would largely fund Social Security for the next several decades. But his campaign has emphasized in recent weeks that he would raise taxes only on Americans who make more than $250,000.

Experts say that while that saves Obama from being criticized for adding taxes for those who make $102,000 to $250,000, it also brings in fewer dollars for the system, less than half of what is needed to match the shortfall.

Len Berman, the director of the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, said that although Obama "should get credit for doing something about Social Security," the proposal lacks enough specificity about its tax increases to illustrate how it would help Social Security and whether those increased taxes would slow the economy.

"It would be nice to know how it affects economic incentives," Berman said.

Henry J. Aaron, an Obama supporter and economics expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, said he is concerned that the proposal would fundamentally change Social Security. Unlike other government programs, such as Medicaid, that are targeted for low-income people, Social Security has traditionally operated as a program in which participants get more money in benefits if they have put more in. A person who pays taxes on $90,000 of income, on average, during his lifetime receives higher benefits than a person who retires after making $50,000 in an average year.

Obama's proposal could alter that formula, because he has not specified whether those making more than $250,000 would receive additional benefits.

"I don't think this is the right way to raise the cap, although raising the cap is a good idea," Aaron said. "Traditionally, there is a linkage between benefits and taxes paid. It's what has helped make Social Security a benefit that people claim with pride."

Furman noted that Medicare, the health-care program for the elderly, is popular, even though it does not limit the amount of income that can be taxed to pay for it, meaning that wealthy people pay more into the system.

"The most important factor in public support for Social Security is the confidence that it's going to be there when you retire," he said.

Obama is offering a significantly more specific idea than either Bush or Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) did as candidates in 2004. Bush declined in 2004 to say how he would address Social Security's shortfall, mentioning only his backing of personal accounts, which found little support the next year on Capitol Hill.

McCain supported those accounts in 2005 and has spoken positively about them in his campaign, but aides emphasize that he would seek consensus on the issue.

"John McCain is committed to honoring the promise of Social Security and believes that his bipartisan record will serve him well as he works across the aisle to ensure the long-term solvency of the program," said Tucker Bounds, a McCain spokesman.

Aides said McCain would not support a tax increase to address the solvency of the program, but they did not give further details.

Damien LaVera, a spokesman for the Democratic National Committee, described McCain's plan as a "decision to repackage President Bush's failed and flawed plan to privatize Social Security."

Maya MacGuineas, a budget expert at the New America Foundation who advised McCain on Social Security in 2000, said of his proposal: "In terms of details, there is so much to be filled in."

[omega39-2009]

Vote McCain for more war and taxcuts for the rich paid for out of YOUR SS account.

[jack3213]

The Obama ad, which introduces him as someone who worked his way through college, fights for American jobs, and battles for healthcare also seeks to move him to the center by taking credit for welfare reform in Illinois which, the ad proclaims, reduced the rolls by 80 percent.


But there''s one problem %u2014 Obama opposed the 1996 welfare reform act at the time. The Illinois law for which he takes credit was merely the local implementing law the state was required to pass, and it did, almost unanimously. Obama''s implication, that he backed "moving people from welfare to work," is just not true.

[jack3213]

In his effort to move to the center, Obama has distorted his own record, meager though it may be, and is taking credit for a program he strongly opposed. McCain should immediately run an ad in all of the states in which his opponent is advertising setting forth the facts and explaining Obama''s distortion. McCain calls him on his distortion, he can do grave damage to Obama on three fronts: credibility, centrism, and experience.


By catching Obama, he can undermine the effectiveness of any subsequent ads the Democrat runs. By showing that he opposed welfare reform, McCain can do much to force Obama back to the left and cast doubt on his efforts to move to the middle. And by emphasizing Obama''s limited experience, he can strike at a soft spot %u2014 made softer by Hillary''s attacks in the primary.


The move is right there for McCain. Now lets see how good his campaign really is.

[zerato-2009]

Mccain the flip lopper has been all over thsi one. He supports the bush privatization of social security until he wasn''t. Ot makes since to have everyone pay for the socail securtiy. It would make the social securtiy tax fair. And why would republicans not like fair.

[beastof70]

It''s so interesting to watch a real American offering an approach in which Americans are requested to get involved in to solve the problem....

While on the other hand you have the most left wing pinko member of the US Senate, a real 50%-American claiming Americans need to have no say in this, he will simply solve it by increasing taxes.

Typical of these hyphenated-American Democrats....So myopic as to believe bigger government and higher taxes is the do all, be all, end all to everything.

I can remember when their commie kin in the USSR tried exactly this. Now look at what a mess Russia is in today.

[beastof70]

I heard an old boy late last night recite some passages out of Sen. "OsamaObama''s" first book, "Dreams of my Father" I think it was titled.

I never knew "OsamaObama" was such a booze hound and druggie.

[beastof70]

It''s so entertaining watching the neocons talk about "REAL Americans." Neocons seem rather obsessed with definitions. Of couse they define "real American" only as someone who is a neocon. If this is the case, then well over half of the voters in the November election will NOT be "real Americans..."
Posted by raflin1 at 09:37 AM : Jul 08, 2008
============

I can understand you being so easily entertained, since your above so clearly demonstrates how a hyphenated-American like you clueless as to what a real American is.

It''s always been my experience, simpletons are far more easily entertained.

[jack3213]

Wow, there is no end to Obama''s EGO- sounds alot like what happened during the demise of the Clinton campaign strategy that went South. ME, ME, ME..first attitude- That didn''t work before and it won''t work now- sorry O''boy-O''loser.

[rudy654-2009]

It''''s so entertaining watching the neocons talk about "REAL Americans."
********

The only idea they have for real Americans are WASPS.

[aldon61]

One thing about it, our country really does have choices this year. These two are about as far apart,on most everything, as it can be. Privatization of Social Security is still an un-popular concept; if I were McCain, I would avoid it and look at other bi-partisan solutions.

[aldon61]

The only idea they have for real Americans are WASPS.


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Posted by rudy654 at 09:54 AM : Jul 08, 2008

By their definition, even some WASPS are not real americans. Can you say Democrats? Some WASPS are deocrats and they''re not "real americans" are they?

[antoniof123]

Neo cons are getting more desparte every day they can see they waited too long to prepare for the strom that was brewing 2 years ago and know that they will be removed by true Repubicans as well as Democrats and indepentents.

Moderate or die now we have to swing the pendulm back to balance things out.

[zerato-2009]

How myopic the republicans are. They think by saying tax cut that all the ills of the world are solved. They say patriotism and they think that the people will blindly follow their leader to war. They hear fairness and they think pinko fascist. They here a 4.3 trillion shortfall in social security and they say a special commission to investigate. It confrims to me they have a hard time thinking.

[jack3213]

ZERATO SAID : "They say patriotism and they think that the people will blindly follow their leader to war. They hear fairness and they think pinko fascist. "

I THIKK YOU HAVE YOUR PARITES MIXED UP- HAVE ANOTHER PUFF, YOU FOOL.

[jack3213]

ZERATO SAID : "They say patriotism and they think that the people will blindly follow their leader to war. They hear fairness and they think pinko fascist. "

I THINK YOU HAVE YOUR PARTIES MIXED UP- HAVE ANOTHER PUFF, YOU FOOL.

[aldon61]

I THIKK YOU HAVE YOUR PARITES MIXED UP- HAVE ANOTHER PUFF, YOU FOOL.


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Posted by JACK3213 at 10:16 AM : Jul 08, 2008

What''s "thikks and parites"?

[aldon61]

Posted by JACK3213 at 10:16 AM : Jul 08, 2008

What''''s "thikks and parites"?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, just a misspelling.

[aldon61]

Moderate or die now we have to swing the pendulm back to balance things out.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by antoniof123 at 10:04 AM : Jul 08, 2008

AGREED!

[beastof70]

It''''''''s so entertaining watching the neocons talk about "REAL Americans."
********

The only idea they have for real Americans are WASPS.
Posted by rudy654 at 09:54 AM : Jul 08, 2008
===============

Now, now Rudolfo we all know "WASPS" is the way a W*O*P-American like you visualizes real Americans.

If it were the vision of real Americans (since I am not a WASP)this Heinz57 harbored I''d be forced to don a hyphen with my Americanism as you do.

[a8151947]

No CUTS to Social Security. I worked for the money. I want it. If you are anybody else wants Social Security let them worry about it. You don''t take what someone has work for and been told they would get to pay for someone else. We have been lied to enought.

[vortex1011]

If it were the vision of real Americans (since I am not a WASP)this Heinz57 harbored I''''d be forced to don a hyphen with my Americanism as you do.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Beastof70 at 10:21 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

It would appear that "real" americans communicate by grunting in some strange language called Dumbfuckese

[beastof70]

Moderate or die now we have to swing the pendulm back to balance things out.
Posted by antoniof123 at 10:04 AM : Jul 08, 2008
=================

All these threats of death and forceable removal you are running around these boards advocating clearly proves the only hyphen you really enjoy wearing is your, Un-American hyphen. What country are you from?? Are you wet like Rudolfo??

[zerato-2009]

I THIKK YOU HAVE YOUR PARITES MIXED UP- HAVE ANOTHER PUFF, YOU FOOL.
Posted by JACK3213

No I don''t. pretty sure I got it right the first time. No thank you I don''t smoke. YOu can go ahead and toke it up.

[vortex1011]

is your, Un-American hyphen.

Posted by Beastof70 at 10:23 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

Beats you beimng an unhypehnated ******* American cletus

[beastof70]

No CUTS to Social Security. I worked for the money. I want it. If you are anybody else wants Social Security let them worry about it. You don''t take what someone has work for and been told they would get to pay for someone else. We have been lied to enought.
Posted by A8151947 at 10:21 AM : Jul 08, 2008
==================

Let me make sure I have this straight:

In a hyphenated-American''s eye it''s okay if the federal government uses a gun to steal from the rich so they can give it to someone else, you for example??

Seeing as how English is obvioulsy not your primary language, does my above pretty well sum it up??

[beastof70]

Beats you beimng an unhypehnated ******* American cletus
Posted by Vortex1011 at 10:25 AM : Jul 08, 2008
====================

WhirlingBag''OGas, your above demonstration of English clearly being your second language causes me to suspect you enjoy wearing your "Un-" hyphen with your Americanism.

[mcvet]

Let me make sure I have this straight:

In a hyphenated-American''''s eye it''''s okay if the federal government uses a gun to steal from the rich so they can give it to someone else, you for example??

Seeing as how English is obvioulsy not your primary language, does my above pretty well sum it up??

Posted by Beastof70 at 10:30 AM : Jul 08, 2008

We have people out here who have worked their entire lives to be able to retire in a respectful way. They now find they have NO pension because some Corporation has ripped them off, NO Medical Coverage for the same reason and a few are worried about people how has seen their income grow by 400% while all this was going on. Excuse me if I find NO tears here! THE American Worker has been sold down the River folks... ANYONE voting for McSame thinking that will change is flat out STUPID!! Sieg Heil Bush

[vortex1011]

In a hyphenated-American''''s eye it''''s okay if the federal government uses a gun to steal from the rich so they can give it to someone else, you for example??

Posted by Beastof70 at 10:30 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

The Federal Govt uses guns to steal oil from Iraqis, to give to fat lazyass useless rural white southern trash like you and your inbred relatives Cletus

[zerato-2009]

In a hyphenated-American''''s eye it''''s okay if the federal government uses a gun to steal from the rich so they can give it to someone else, you for example??
Posted by Beastof70

Oh thsoe poor rich not having to pay social security for all these years, those poor rich having all the tax loopholes to hide their money, ahh those poor rich having to get all those bush taqx cuts. ahh those poor rich having to pay the lobbyist to protect their money. Thsoe poor rich are so mistreated.

[vortex1011]

your above demonstration of English clearly being your second language causes me to suspect you enjoy wearing your "Un-" hyphen with your Americanism.

Posted by Beastof70 at 10:34 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

Poor as my English may be, it''s still far superior to that of the "real" american codpiece coward you elected to the Pretzelduncy in both 2000 and 2004.
By the way being able to speak 2 or more languages is certainly superior to you unhyphenated ******* americans who can communicate only by grunting in Dumbfuckese

[beastof70]

We have people out here who have worked their entire lives to be able to retire in a respectful way. They now find they have NO pension because some Corporation has ripped them off, NO Medical Coverage for the same reason and a few are worried about people how has seen their income grow by 400% while all this was going on. Excuse me if I find NO tears here! THE American Worker has been sold down the River folks... ANYONE voting for McSame thinking that will change is flat out STUPID!! Sieg Heil Bush
Posted by MCVet at 10:36 AM : Jul 08, 2008
======================

I suppose what remains to be seen is whether the 2008 election becomes a repeat of the 1972 election when real Americans woke up at the last minute to realize they could not vote for the most left wing pinko Senator being offered them by the Democrat party.

Or, whether America has finally fallen to the point deTouqueville described as the end for America.

You know, the point at which the Democrat Party gets elected by promising to give lots and lots of the largess they have the power to steal from the rich.

Nobody can deny, Sen. "OsamaObama" is certainly doing a fine job of promising lots and lots of largess for you hyphenated-Americans votes.

[johnmcsame]

Obama, allah (the moon god) is getting even with you for denying your muslim faith.

[vortex1011]

You know, the point at which the Democrat Party gets elected by promising to give lots and lots of the largess ....

Posted by Beastof70 at 10:45 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

The word is "largesse" you ignorant pile of drooling, festering, southern, swamp trash
You might want to have a kindergarten teacher teach you spelling so you don''t continuously make a bigger fool of yourself than you have to

[homespunlady]

I REALLY DON''T believe that getting some of the wealth BACK that the NEOCONS STOLE from the REST of US through LOOPHOLES, CONTRIVED WAR FOR PROFIT or LOBBYIST contrived "PREFERENCE" as well as PREFERENTIAL "sole-source" giveaways of OUR tax dollar to THEIR DISCRIMINATORY MONOPOLIES is anything BUT FAIR.

There HAS been an UNFAIR ADVANTAGE taken by these NEOCONS and their DOUBLESPEAK of "fairness" only seems to apply to THEM.

THEY MOCK the POOR, they snicker at the gullible Middle-class that want to maintain at least some semblance of an American dream and they KEEP ROBBING through CONTRIVED legislation that gives THEM PREFERENCE OVER the lower 95 Percent of Americans.

Seldom does ONE of these "Looking Out For Number One" types even glance at the VAST DAMAGE they are creating to the society they parasitically FEED OFF OF.
They just STRUT, BRAG, SNEER and declare their illusory SUPERIORITY based on their ability to be more cunning LEECHES.

The result is MORE poverty, more PREVENTABLE ILLNESSES, more of a wealth gap, MORE crime and violence as the DISPARITY increases and MORE dissatisfaction in the order of things until it reaches a "tipping point" where UPHEAVAL through ANY means necessary returns SOME semblance of balance.

IF they were REALLY intelligent, they would RETURN this country to a more balanced state - but then they WOULDN''T be NEOCONS - They would be RESPONSIBLE leaders and THAT seems to be a concept that eludes them.

[johnmcsame]

(from the above article)

Obama has been even more specific. The Democrat from Illinois has proposed raising taxes on upper-income Americans to address projected shortfalls in Social Security, but his plan has been greeted with skepticism, even from some in his own party.

Obama is an idiot. He doesn''t know what he is talking about. Even his own party wished he would just shut up.

[beastof70]

Oh thsoe poor rich not having to pay social security for all these years, those poor rich having all the tax loopholes to hide their money, ahh those poor rich having to get all those bush taqx cuts. ahh those poor rich having to pay the lobbyist to protect their money. Thsoe poor rich are so mistreated.
Posted by zerato at 10:38 AM : Jul 08, 2008
=======================

Clearly the mushy thinking you offer above tells us all exactly how young you are by watching your attempts to toss a hyphen on everyone.

For example: "rich-Americans", "poor rich-Americans" etc.

Please understand, as you grow up you will hopefully begin to understand this dividing of a united community is the same technique used by despots throughout history to destroy this united community along their rise to power.

The Democrat Party of America began using this technique back in 1968 when the communist wing of their party grabbed complete control of the party.

[vortex1011]

Obama has been even more specific. The Democrat from Illinois has proposed raising taxes on upper-income Americans to address projected shortfalls in Social Security, but his plan has been greeted with skepticism, even from some in his own party.

Obama is an idiot. He doesn''''t know what he is talking about. Even his own party wished he would just shut up.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by johnmcsame at 10:52 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

Coming from idiots like you who claimed the war in Iraq was over 5 years ago; Obama must be pretty confident that his plan will work seeing as drooling ppiles of festering souther swamp trash like you believe it won''t work

[vortex1011]

Please understand, as you grow up you will hopefully begin to understand this dividing of a united community
Posted by Beastof70 at 10:53 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

america is NOT united *******.......it never has been. the country is just a collection of various piles of drooling swamp trash

[beastof70]

...By the way being able to speak 2 or more languages is certainly superior to you unhyphenated ******* americans who can communicate only by grunting in ...
Posted by Vortex1011 at 10:39 AM : Jul 08, 2008
==================

Hmmmmm?? I must admit shock that WhirlingBag''OGas openly admits to being a hyphenated-American.

Now if we could only get the gasbag to be honest enough to reveal what percentage-American??

[johnmcsame]

The word is "largesse" you ignorant pile of drooling, festering, southern, swamp trash
You might want to have a kindergarten teacher teach you spelling so you don''''t continuously make a bigger fool of yourself than you have to

Posted by Vortex1011 at 10:49 AM : Jul 08, 2008

Vortex1011 what an idiot you are. You must be a brownie queen or candy maker from San Francisco. No one cares about your insults. The candidate you support is the biggest fool there is. Wake up. Stop your sucking and open your eyes.

[beastof70]

america is NOT united *******.......it never has been. the country is just a collection of various piles of drooling swamp trash
Posted by Vortex1011 at 10:56 AM : Jul 08, 2008
=================

Once again I must applaud your honesty WhirlingBag''OGas for showing all who might be in doubt of exactly what the typical un-American Sen."OsamaObama" supporter looks like.

Please keep it up.

[parrot123-2009]

McCain''s aides said he favors a bipartisan approach and is open to working with Congress on finding a solution to the long-term solvency of the New Deal-era program, indicating he could support an array of ideas .......


Short for - he has no idea what to do or how this affects a mojority of Americans since he''s no worried about it and he hasn''t been told to worry about it. Cheers!

[johnmcsame]

Vortex1011, why would a closet gay like you support Hussein???

Here is sample list of Obama''s favorite pals:

William Ayes better known nationally as the most notorious %u2014 and unrepentant %u2014 figure from the violent fringe of the 1960s anti-war movement.

Lois Farrakhan-Supreme Minister of the Nation of Islam, best known for his racist, homophobic and antisemitic views.

Antoin "Tony" Rezko-charges of wire fraud, bribery, money laundering, and attempted extortion

Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Jr-Senior Pastor of the Trinity United Church of Christ who gives racially and politically charged sermons, such as when he said, "God *** America"

Ali Abunimah- a well-known anti-Israel activist who reveals in a report that Obama said ''Hey, I%u2019m sorry I haven%u2019t said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I%u2019m hoping when things calm down I can be more up front.'' Abunimah''s report included a photo of Obama with his wife Michelle seated at a table with virulently anti-Israeli Professor Edward Said and his wife Mariam

The guys on the list are all homophobic.

[homespunlady]

I see The NEOCON spinmeisters are in FULL SMOKE AND MIRRORS MODE today.

Rather than rationally DISCUSSING the ARTICLE they''re DIVERTING INTO PLAYGROUND NAME CALLING AGAIN.

DESPERATION over possibly LOSING their MASTERS'' UNFAIR ADVANTAGES and the excellent chance that they will be JOINING the REST of us when that happens has REALLY made them SINK to NEW LOWS.

[vortex1011]

Vortex1011 what an idiot you are. You must be a brownie queen or candy maker from San Francisco. No one cares about your insults.

Posted by johnmcsame at 10:59 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

you seem to care enough about my truthful posts about america and americans to respond bubba cletus

[vortex1011]

Short for - he has no idea what to do or how this affects a mojority of Americans

Posted by parrot123 at 11:02 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

McLame''s solution to all problems - is an extra hundred years of war in Iraq

[vortex1011]

Hmmmmm?? I must admit shock that WhirlingBag''''OGas openly admits to being a hyphenated-American.

Now if we could only get the gasbag to be honest enough to reveal what percentage-American??

Posted by Beastof70 at 10:56 AM : Jul 08, 2008"

cletus, you''re so dumb that your stupidity takes the cumulative IQ of americans into negative territory
I''m NOT American cletus - nor do I EVER want to be an american
Suggesting that a non american is american is a major insult

[homespunlady]

Beastof70

Is that name a reference to the "beast" mentioned in the Book of Revelations?

Do you have a problem with having an intellectual discussion of the SUBJECT of the article?

Why do you believe that sinking into immature name calling is an advantage?

[homespunlady]

vortex1011

What country are you from?

I probably should remind you too that name calling DOES appear a bit immature.

What do your fellow countrymen think of tis political circus here in America?

[beastof70]

I''''m NOT American cletus - nor do I EVER want to be an american
Suggesting that a non american is american is a major insult
Posted by Vortex1011 at 11:16 AM : Jul 08, 2008
========================

I''ve long suspected most of these Sen. "OsamaObama" supporters I see on these board are same as this WhirlingBag''OGas.

Since real Americans love their nation far more than what I see being demonstrated by these wets.

Bye, bye WhirlingBag''OGas, for I need never again give anything you offer a second thought.