June 29, 2008
Obama Vs. The Smart Guys (And Dumb Wars)
The Nation: Obama’s Victory Marks A Sea Change In The American Foreign Policy Establishment
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One of the many (many) salutary aspects of Barack Obama's impending presidential nomination is the sea change his victory marks in the battle for the mind-set of the American foreign policy establishment, writes The Nation. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
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Photo Essay
Barack Obama
A look at the life and meteoric rise of the president-elect.
One of the many (many) salutary aspects of Barack Obama's impending presidential nomination is the sea change his victory marks in the battle for the mind-set of the American foreign policy establishment. Not only was Obama unambiguously opposed to the American invasion of Iraq back when it mattered but - in marked contrast to the Clinton campaign - so were most of his advisers and supporters. Indeed, without this essential distinction from his opponent, coupled with her unwillingness to repudiate or apologize for her vote for George W. Bush's war, the Obama campaign would likely never have found the base of support it needed to mount a serious nomination fight.
Recall the bracing good sense of Obama's October 2002 speech to a rally organized by Chicagoans Against War in Iraq: "I...know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military [has] a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda."
Though it fueled his primary victories, Obama's prescience regarding Iraq was actually a handicap with many in the media. Amazingly, given the scope of the catastrophe the war has visited on the United States and the world, the spectrum of punditocracy opinion on foreign policy remains dominated by people who got Iraq entirely wrong and are proud of it. On the right we get arguments like that from The Weekly Standard's Fred Barnes, who believes that "Obama's not in quite as strong a position on the war in Iraq as he really thinks he is, because the entire world believed that Saddam Hussein in Iraq had weapons of mass destruction." Much of the left and center, meanwhile, remain wedded to the view articulated by liberal pundit Richard Cohen, who, borrowing from the French ex-Stalinist Pierre Courtade, insisted, "You and your kind were wrong to be right; we were right to be wrong." As Slate's Timothy Noah, a repentant war supporter, noted not long ago, "Five years after this terrible war began, it remains true that respectable mainstream discussion about its lessons is nearly exclusively confined to people who supported the war, even though that same mainstream acknowledges, for the most part, that the war was a mistake." And yet the "people who opposed U.S. entry into the Iraq war, it would appear, are insufficiently 'serious' to explain why they were right."
It would nevertheless be a mistake for those of us who knew better at the time to dismiss forever the judgment of everyone who was taken in. Mistakes, after all, are endemic to foreign and military policy given the unpredictability of events and the difficulty of securing reliable information in a place like Iraq. But the onus ought to be on those who drove this SUV off the cliff to explain why we should ever strap ourselves into their vehicle again. Slate's Jacob Weisberg is surely correct to observe that "it's incumbent upon those of us who blew the biggest foreign-policy decision of the past decade to try to understand our mistake--and to try to learn something from it."
That learning process, however, has been stalled not only by the unwillingness of the hawks to look in the mirror but also by a lack of intellectual rigor on the part of those who did. Typically, neocons either deny the fact of a mistake or blame the Iraqis for what has gone wrong. As Charles Krauthammer explains it, "The root problem lies with Iraqis and their political culture." Liberals and moderates tend to foist all the blame on the Bush Administration's incompetence and fecklessness, as if this was somehow news to them in 2003 and now makes their criticism all the more valuable. As Leon Wieseltier views things, their position as supporters of the war "gives them a perverse and somewhat paradoxical authority in expressing their criticisms of the way the war was conducted." Others blame - pace Michael Ignatieff - the fact that they are academics, because "a sense of reality doesn't always flourish in elite institutions." Yet these same elite universities happened to be the locus of opposition to the war when Ignatieff - now a politician in Canada - was braying for it.
While The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan - there, I said it - and Jonathan Rauch, along with others, have engaged in serious self-critiques, I was recently reminded of just how rare these are when reading a partial draft of a lengthy manuscript by former New Republic editor and especially aggressive liberal hawk Peter Beinart. He was one of the few journalists Bill Moyers interviewed for his Buying the War documentary to demonstrate Beinart's genuine contrition for the irrational exuberance he exhibited when arguing on behalf of war. Inspired by his mistakes in Iraq, he's embarked on an examination of the role that "toughness" and "hubris" have played in determining America's response to world events. Whether Beinart succeeds is to some degree beside the point; in undertaking the effort, he is demonstrating what it means to be a responsible member of the nation's elite. Just how few of his fellow hawks of the left, right and center have joined Beinart on this journey serves as another reminder of how fortunate this country is to have before it a presidential candidate who needed no instruction in the first place. "I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars," Barack Obama explained six years ago. He got it right. Now, perhaps, so can we...
By Eric Alterman
Reprinted with permission from The Nation.
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You represent a scared illogical non-thinking minority of Americans - Name calling, mocking, screaming your illogical remarks ad nausium. You are filled with fearful hate rather than trying to find a solution. You make no sense and I assume you don''t want to make any sense. You just want to get those people that hurt you. We need to be in Afghanistan and get OBL, but we should never have gone to Iraq. That mistake will be with the Bush Administration as its greedly and stupid legacy. History cannot wipe that off the page. All the hubris and ranting and fear mongering in the world is not going to change that or his historicly incompetent legacy.
Obuma is a coward and wants to talk to everyone and say nothing at the same time, no action Obuma he will be called, you will see.
Posted by zgomer at 05:07 PM : Jun 29, 2008
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Yeah yeah! You Nazi''s have been SO successful to this point why not try to shift the focus!! Our Troops are worn out fighting a War that had nothing to do with any attack on this nation and is based on LIES, PURE no doubt about it LIES. Not ONE American should have died in Iraq but to a Fascist that''s success!! The REAL enemy, the one in a Safe Haven THEY created?? Well they don''t like to talk about that!! ROFLMAO SIEG HEIL BUSH
Posted by jcr103 at 04:53 PM : Jun 29, 2008
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He also, will NOT use our OVER EXTENDED Military as a police force for Oil Company''s!!
Posted by willo1301 at 04:14 PM : Jun 29, 2008
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Yeah how are you planning on doing that Swastika Breath. Our troops are extended as it is to the point they can''t properly defend THIS nation... The Fascist have pretty much put us in a NO WIN situation as far as negotiations is concerned... like Iran doesn''t know we''re extended beyond our means... but hey when your a bully and you HAVE no friends in the world, those things happen!! SIEG HEIL BUSH!!
So like instead of looking for a hawkish Dem for VP, he''d instead go for somebody anti-war from the start. Instead of playing the GOP game of who''s tougher, he''d stick with truth and facts: predictions of terrorist attacks could be countered by highlighting our increased national security in cities at landmarks/subways/powerplants, the training law enforcement has received, the crisis management plans set in place. He could use the opportunity to point out that he''d hopefully be able to rely on Rudy Giuliani in a crisis because it''s him and not McCain who''s got that experience. He could also point out that retaliation against terrorists would be easy since we''re already at war with half the middle-east, and since war against the Saudis isn''t really viable given that we''re dependent on their oil.
Like after Barack breaks it down, are people REALLY going to feel safer with McLame in charge? If the Saudis attack, isn''t he liable to just go and start a war with Iran? For no particular reason? Is that what people really want?!?
Huffington Post has a headline about Barack undercutting his brand by suddenly turning right on national security issues - Iran, wiretapping, gun control, the death penalty. And yesterday I was all like that it''s not Barack''s fault he has to insulate himself from fear-mongering because time and again swing voters have been shown to panic when push comes to shove and go GOP. But that being said, the point''s well taken . . . I guess there''s plusses to going this route, but the drawback is that it also tends to make people think that if Barack had been in the Senate, doesn''t this tend to show that he''d have likely voted for the Iraq War Resolution just like Hillary? I think there IS a vulnerability in people feeling just as scared that maybe Barack''s judgment is susceptible to being compromised just like so many others.
I wonder whether the riskier route might actually be the safer if pulled off properly - like if Barack wholeheartedly embraced the anti-war platform, anti-wiretapping, pro-gun control, a death penalty for murder one with special circumstances only then the flipside is that he''d be able to offer the reassurance of constancy and true authenticity (?)
Sam, Paul Craig Roberts did a very good job of pointing this out and why we should still vote for Obama.
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/080617_obama.htm
Posted by SamTheTVCat
Sam, it was fear. Di_ck Cheney was running around promising a nuclear attack on a US city if a Democrat won. The thing about fear (and torture) is that people become desensitized over time, I believe that is what we are witnessing now. On another board, Lieberman is promising a terror attack and faux news continues to try and sow the seeds of doubt. The problem is people have been knocked out of their comfort zones economically and they know (even if they won''t admit it to themselves) who is responsible. I started out hoping for Edwards but I believe Obama will make a fine president, there will be those that will vote against him because of his color and some that will vote against him on ideological grounds. Still, I honestly believe between the discouraged Republican base, and the millions of young voters that have taken this election to heart, we will see a Democratic landslide.
We need Experience. We need Hillary and Bill.
We can''''t afford to take a chance on a kid who still needs training wheels on his bike.
Posted by JTait2
Between NAFTA and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (that gutted large parts of the Glass-Steagall Act) Bill Clinton did plenty to set up the loss of jobs and contribute to the mortgage meltdown. If however you like that kind of s/c/r/e/w the middle class economics take heart, Obama has chosen the Clinton architect Robert Rubin to be his financial adviser.
Hillary is not a candidate. All past Clinton supporters are now Obama supporters. People claiming otherwise are just Republican shills angry that the unity in the Democratic party is so solid and makes Sen. Obama unbeatable; they would love to sow any discord.
No Democrat or voter who cares about America would oppose Obama.
www.webofdeception.com
Syria will invade Israel after reoccupying Lebanon. Obama will do nothing.
Militant forces will get together to cut off supplies of oil from the US. Obama will do nothing.
South Korea will say "only kidding" about shutting down its nuclear weapons program. Obama will do nothing.
Post-Olympics China will make a run at taking over Taiwan, having subdued Tibet. Obama will do nothing.
The flow of illegal immigration to the US will increase. Obama will do nothing.
Speeches don''t count. Actions do.
"Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle."
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."
"War should be made a crime, and those who instigate it should be punished as criminals."
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
The Carter Doctrine was a policy proclaimed by President of the United States Jimmy Carter in his State of the Union Address on 23 January 1980, which stated that the United States would use military force if necessary to defend its national interests in the Persian Gulf region. The doctrine was a response to the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, and was intended to deter the Soviet Union%u2014the Cold War adversary of the United States%u2014from seeking hegemony in the Persian Gulf. After stating that Soviet troops in Afghanistan posed "a grave threat to the free movement of Middle East oil," Carter proclaimed:
Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force. (full speech)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ca
rter_Doctrine
Posted by omega39
That''s a great point omega...Dems are in a different place now than we were in 2004. The economic cost hadn''t yet hit home four years ago, and the war will be five years old by November, not just a year old.
As for that Lieberman tactic, maybe Barack ought to counter by making a prediction of his own that he wouldn''t put it past the GOPigs to start ramping up activity against Iran come the fall, and that the urgency they tout will NOT be based on threat but rather politics (?) Because the GOP have already gone on record saying if they can make people feel like we''re at war on election day then they will win because they''re seen as being stronger on ''terrorism''.
We need to start undercutting that advantage, not just to win but hopefully to prevent them from actually hurling bombs to win the election!!!!! That makes me sound like one of those conspiracy nuts, but given that this admin lied us into a war is this scenario really that far from the realm of possibility?
We need Experience. We need Hillary and Bill.
We can''''t afford to take a chance on a kid who still needs training wheels on his bike.
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Posted by JTait2
We need Experience. We need Hillary and Bill. We can''t afford to take a chance on a kid who still needs training wheels on his bike."---
Posted by JTait2
Oops, I pressed the publish button by mistake! :D
I was just going to say that as a female I find it embarrassing to see women who can''t seem to face a situation and say okay, here are the options, here are the candidates, this is what matters to me, so this is the action I need to take. It sounds so out of it to hear women say ''we need Hillary'' - well, I mean she lost, so that option is off the table. Like there''s an empowerment issue here that''s kind of embarrassing to see in other women . . .
Embarrassing point number two is seeing that Hillary supporters only seem capable of parroting her talking points. That being said, it was great to see Hildebeast start attempting to unify the party by finally saying something negative about McSame. But if she and Bill don''t want to be remembered for dysfunctionally trying to clean up their Monica legacy by trying to get back into the White House by voting for a war without reading the NIE report and by lying about her experience, they better start putting out some different talking points for their lemmings to absorb and parrot.
That''s all . . .
I pray daily that your prescience proves prophetic. We can''t let fear rule the election again.
enabled all of his criminal actions.
If the democrats had a few more votes and if the republicons did not march in GOOSESTEP with Bush
thsi debacle , and many other debacles, some yet to come, could have been avoided.
the republicon party and the evangelical conservatives
have become the new fascists, the new american NAZI''s
enabled all of his criminal actions.
If the democrats had a few more votes and if the republicons did not march in GOOSESTEP with Bush
thsi debacle , and many other debacles, some yet to come, could have been avoided.
the republicon party and the evangelical conservatives
have become the new fascists, the new american NAZI''''s
Posted by joyous88
You are such a whiner, congress has been held captive by the democrats for how long now and not one promise they made to get control has come to fruition. You are just a whiner and a loser.
Posted by noloyalisti
What has obama done to show his intelligence? what has he ever done to show who he is, in a positive way that is. he has shown his distaste for the US Flag and the country as a whole. what has he ever done that was a positive thing? hang out with felons, follow a mentor that is a hateful person?
We need Experience. We need Hillary and Bill.
We can''''t afford to take a chance on a kid who still needs training wheels on his bike.
Posted by JTait2
I agree in a time of crisis we need strenght and wisdom, but saying hillary and bill are that is an oxxymoron. obama does not have it either.
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by guysdigdirt
July 1, 2008 1:00 PM PDT
- The vote was to give teeth to the diplomacy. Who knew Saddam Huseein was an idiot who thought he could bluff us? I totally agreed with Senator Clinton''''s vote at the time. Now we know differently.
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See all 36 CommentsPosted by ERoosevelt08
I agree with you for the most part, but now that we are there, what do we do? Just pack up and leave? I hate the war as much as anyone, but it is not a black and white issue.