June 25, 2008
Netroots Feel Jilted By Obama Over FISA
Politico: Online Liberal Activists Upset Dem Candidate Is Supporting Surveillance Bill
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Domestic Surveillance
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When former Sen. John Edwards dropped out of the presidential race, the progressive Netroots took their affections to Barack Obama, defending him against attack from Hillary Rodham Clinton and others.
But with his support of a government surveillance bill that offers retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies - a bill that he vowed last year to filibuster - the honeymoon has ended.
Disappointed over his position on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the online activists feel jilted and betrayed and have taken to questioning his progressive credentials. One prominent blogger, Atrios, has even given him the moniker “Wanker of the Day.”
“He broke faith,” said Matt Stoller, a political consultant and blogger at OpenLeft.com. “Obama pledged to filibuster, and he is part of that old politics, in this case, that he said he wasn’t. It will spur us to challenge him.”
The FISA debate marks the presumptive Democratic nominee’s first serious break from the liberal Netroots in the general election. He is still their candidate, but the FISA issue has reignited skepticism among major bloggers, who had largely pushed aside doubts about Obama when Edwards, their favored candidate, ended his bid in February.
Obama’s post-partisan persona hasn’t always meshed so well with the noisy and contentious Netroots, and his rise to prominence has come without their full-throated support. He told reporters in February that he doesn’t read blogs and has long been viewed as cool to the Netroots - a notion that the candidate’s new media director, Joe Rospars, disputed this week at the Personal Democracy Forum in New York, saying Obama was a favorite of the readers of the major bloggers.
Either way, the Netroots eventually took Obama’s side against Clinton, and some came to view him as a champion of progressive causes.
His stance on the FISA bill, however, has brought Obama back down to earth, in part because the liberal blogosphere cares more about civil liberties than many of the other traditional issues that have long dominated the Democratic agenda. While the mainstream media fixated on Obama’s decision to opt out of the public financing system - and newspaper editorial boards eviscerated him - the Netroots commended Obama for showing political savvy. After all, the readers of liberal blogs are many of the small donors who gave Obama reason to reject public financing.
FISA, however, was different. Many of the most popular progressive blogs built their following by mining anger toward President Bush, the Iraq war and what bloggers view as his disregard of the Constitution and the civil liberties guaranteed by it. By granting immunity to telecom companies, civil courts will likely dismiss lawsuits that might unearth details about the administration’s activities, eliminating an opportunity to hold Bush accountable.
“It angers the blogosphere to its core,” said Jane Hamsher, founder of the popular blog Firedoglake.com. “We want to be able to know: What did you do? If we can get that information, we can make sure they don’t do that again. We can get the public engaged.”
Obama’s decision to support the bill with the immunity provision was not surprising, she said. Republicans frame critics of such security measures as soft on terrorism, and the presumptive Democratic nominee probably does not want it used against him.
“[A] lot of people tried to convince themselves that he was a progressive hero, and I think they were disappointed,” Hamsher said. “You can feel a real shift in the zeitgeist online.”
Still, the disillusionment goes only so far. The liberal blogosphere’s most recognizable name, Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, founder of Daily Kos, said Monday on MSNBC’s “Countdown With Keith Olbermann”: "Let’s be honest, it is either Obama or John McCain. So we really don’t have much of a choice."
At stake for Obama in the FISA vote is the intensity of support for Obama, Moulitsas said.
“I don’t want to hear him talk about leadership. I don’t want to hear him talk about defending the Constitution. I want to see him do it,” he said. “If he does, it will increase the intensity and level of support he gets from base Democrats. If he doesn’t, we may worry he is just another one of these spineless Democrats who are more afraid of controversy in doing the right thing than they are in actually doing the right thing.”
Already, Blue America PAC, a liberal online fundraising group, says it has raised more than $320,000 to fund activities “holding our elected representatives responsible for rubber-stamping the most grievous aspects of the Bush Regime’s agenda.”
MoveOn.org has called upon its members to pressure Obama to “keep his word” and block the bill. Obama gave no indication that he would support a filibuster, and a press aide did not respond to requests for clarification on this point.
The Senate overwhelmingly rejected the filibuster attempt Wednesday, voting 80-15 to end debate and move to final passage Thursday. Obama, who was not present for Wednesday's test vote, is expected to vote for an amendment stripping out the immunity provision. But even if the effort fails, as it has in the past, Obama would likely back the underlying bill.
By taking this position, Obama is threading the needle between Republican charges that he is weak on security and the desires of the Democratic base. To allay critics’ claims that he is giving a pass to the Bush administration, Obama aides pointed to a provision in the bill that requires an inspector general’s review of the surveillance program.
“It is not all that I would want,” Obama said of the legislation, which was negotiated by congressional leaders of both parties. “But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence-collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise but do so with a firm pledge that, as president, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the inspectors general and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives - and the liberty - of the American people.”
Obama’s statement was viewed as a reversal from a pledge last year to oppose any bill with retroactive immunity for telecom companies.
But Obama told reporters Wednesday that the bill has changed from when that pledge was made, saying the latest version satisfied several of his concerns.
Dan Gerstein, a New York political consultant who supports Obama and former longtime aide to Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.), said Obama now needs to stand by his support of the bill, given Republican efforts to brand Obama as a “reflexive, partisan liberal.” “This is really an important initial test for Obama,” he said.
“People will be looking at this to see whether he has the strength and independence to stand up to his friends and a significant support base and say, ‘I think this is right, and I am going to hold firm in my position.’”
The Netroots will be watching Thursday as the Senate considers the bill - and whether Obama simply casts his vote or whether he takes a strong stand in a floor speech.
“The fear out there is that Obama is going to fail to live up to expectations on key issues, and that reinforces the notion that ‘uh-oh, we picked the wrong candidate,’ when the focus should really be on the fact that the Bush administration broke the law with the help of private companies,” said Warren Street, a blogger at the Blue Girl, Red State bog.
By Carrie Budoff Brown
Copyright 2008 POLITICO
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See all 54 CommentsThe only group of un-Americans feeeeeeeeeelling jilted by Sen. Obama who may be of significance might be the gaggle of ambulance chasing American Trial Lawyers.
This bunch of scum suckers were all set to rape and destroy what remains of our national communication companies.
I suppose the greenie weenies are paying better these days than the trial lawyers are??
Today the Supreme Court kicked the gun banners like Sen. Obama squarely in the seat of the pants as they declared the Second Amendment protects individuals rights, and has nothing to do with collectivism, or militias.
Thank you Justice Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, Aleitto, and ?? for protecting America and her traditions as built from these un-American elitists libwads like Sen. Obama.
Sen. Obama, what do you mean we Americans can all go drill ourselves for all you care??
Sen. Dodd who is the Senate Banking Chairman and what ever that Democrat senator from North Dakota name is who is chairman of the Senate Budget committee have been caught red handed taking "sweetheart deals" totalling millions of dollars from the very mortgage bankers they are now trying to get a tax payer funded bail out pushed through the Senate.
My question....When are we gonna see these three criminals do the perp walk???
Wasn''t it last week he stood up and SAID:
Obama pooh-poohs danger from ''tiny'' Iran
''They don''t pose any serious threat to us''
And now all of a sudden, we have all these legitimate threats?
Geezus H. Keeeeeeristttttttttt, does this man ever THINK before he takes a plan of action?
Whoever said FISA was abour Iran? This is to monitor communications from known terrorists and terrorist cells. Obama knows that they are legitimate threats - so does everyone. The immunity clause should be history, tho.
Posted by Beastof70
Well, he didn''t say that, but I''ll say you can go drill yourself, Beast.
HOW ABOUT BEING UPSET:
OBAMA COMMENTS
OBAMA FRIENDS AND ASSOCIATES
OBAMA MARXIST PAST
OBAMA CHOOSE OF CHURCHES
OBAMA JUDGEMENT!!!
Sabeel has been actively working in cooperation with Chicago%u2019s Trinity UCC among certain other politically active churches in America to promote anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic beliefs that can erode American Christian support for Israel and hasten Israel%u2019s destruction. And Pastor Jeremiah Wright, pandering to his majority black congregation, has been teaching his own replacement theology, only this time its called %u201Cblack replacement theology.%u201D Jesus was not a Jew, says Wright, but a %u201Cblack man.%u201D Trinity UCC%u2019s relationship with the anti-Semitic Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam (funded by anti-Israel Libya) fits in nicely with this formula also. The Christian religious icon is no longer a Jew, but a black man and to accept this interpretation is the way to salvation for the black man. This not only deconstructs American church views of the legitimacy of Israel, but has a nice foothold with the likes of the Nation of Islam in the US black community.
Time to wake up to this fact. Between the self serving vain tactics and the celebrity status and all those insane empty promises it is no wonder even blacks are questioning his crediblity. He is nothing but a POLITICIAN in the worst form. This, my friends, is inexperiance.
Posted by Beastof70
Well, he didn''''t say that, but I''''ll say you can go drill yourself, Beast.
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Obama however did say He is glad prices are High, this all fits into his plan to have all of americans living in soviet style brick apartments and all sharing our dollars. Perfect Communnism Obama. Bravo.
You''re not real educated, are you? Are you a possible result of generations of in-breeding?
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Posted by nanc12 at 04:14 PM : Jun 26, 2008
Good point nanc12, but it''ll be wasted on these "beasts".
Um, nope, he didn''t. Sorry.
Posted by lorinkundert
I''m so glad you brought up flip-flopping!
McCain flip-flops in past 3 weeks - will take 3 posts to list them all!!
1. Social Security Privatization 11/18/04, for privatization. 6/13/08, "I''m not for privatizing Social Security. I never have been, I never will be."
2. Defense Spending 11/07, spend more on defense. 6/08 cut defense spending.
3. First Term Balanced Budget Pledge By 2013, then by 2017, now end of first term
4. Media''s treatment of Hillary Clinton, criticized the media, June 7th, said he did not.
5. Estate Tax 2006, was for it, last week, most unfair law on the books
6. FISA 12/20/07, said Bush had clearly crossed the line. 5/23 supports immunity unconditionally
7. Restoring the Everglades 2007, backed Bush''s veto of restoration of the park, 6/5/08, in favor of doing whatever''s necessary to save the Everglades.
8. Divestment from South Africa 6/2/08, AIPAC sanction Iran like South Africa. 1986, voted against those sanctions
9. Fighting job losses in MI January 2007, not the government''s job to bring back those jobs. 6/08, he would fight for new jobs
10. Opposing Katrina Investigations - 6/4/08 - "I''ve supported every investigation" 2005 & 2006 - voted against a commission to study government''s response. Opposed 3 separate emergency funding measures.
http://www.slate.com/id/2194254/pagenum/2/
"Why the new wiretapping law is a lot worse than you think"
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Posted by lorinkundert at 04:32 PM : Jun 26, 2008
+ report abuse
Tell you what lorinkundert, you start naming Obama''s flip flops and I''ll start naming McCain''s flip flops. I''ll still be posting when your little pea brain burns out. Ready?..Here''s number 1. This was directed at Pat Roberts and Jerry Falwell: "they are agents of intolerance". Six years later, McCain''s kissing Falwell''s A$$ and speaking at his college. OK, now it''s your turn!
11. Alternative minimum tax Was for repealing it, now wants to phase it out.
12. Litmus test for judicial appointees: was against it before he was for it
13. Offshore drilling 1999, supported moratorium and scolded "special interests" 2008, let''s drill.
These can be found at http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/16/mccain-sets-a-new-record-10-flip-flops-in-two-weeks/.
Unfortunately, when the article was posted 3 weeks ago, there were only 10 flip-flops, they had to update it to add 3 more.
And can we forget 2001: cannot in good conscience support tax cuts.
2005: McCain Anti-Torture Amendment 2008, voted against the ban
2006 McCain Immigration Bill 2008, did not vote for it.
+ report abuse
lorinkundert, looks like nanc12 has already taken you on, her post hadn''t come up when I challenged you. As you can see, you don''t want to start the flip flop game when all you have to work with in McCain''s reputation. Rots O ruck sucka!
You''''re not real educated, are you? Are you a possible result of generations of in-breeding?
---------------------------------------------------
public class Obama_Marxist
{
switch(rev wrights church)
case "racist":
messagebox.show("Obama is bad for this country")
break;
case "marxist":
messagebox.show("he is a Marxist")
Me
}
%u201CI can no more disown him than I can disown the black community,%u201D said Obama. So then it is clear that Obama believes that Wright%u2019s ideas represent the black community and black experience in America when they represent only the radicalized fringe of black America that wants to aid America%u2019s enemies abroad. It is doubtful many black Americans who served proudly in the US military feel the same as Wright on this issue.
%u2028What is more, militant Islamists see a potential to sow internal problems and promote their fascist goals in the US by trying to divide the American black community against the US government. Whereas blacks have been exploited in the past, this is now seen as a way to achieve the goals of expanding the Muslim ummah inside the US from in the Middle East. That is why Libya gives money to Farrakhan and why the ISM and Sabeel work with Reverend Wright whose personal interpretations of Christianity are entrenched in Obama%u2019s mind as the True Word of Christianity. Wright actually visited Mohammar Ghaddafi in Libya with Farrakhan in the past.
I''m sure we''ll be disappointed at times - we don''t think Obama is perfect. But no one wants a 3rd Bush term with McSame.
And, so he disappoints MoveOn. You think they''re going to go campaign for McSame? Half the time, when they release a commercial, people discount whatever good points they make, simply because they don''t like MoveOn. This is not a big deal for Obama, sorry.
cry - blogosphere is what you''re on. Netroots is the old grassroots, but means drumming up support on the net.
Must have been some Telecom money in those small internet donations!
Then man has no freaking clue what he''s for or what he''s not for. Every time he opens his mouth, it''s either a lie, or an evasion!
Must have been some Telecom money in those small internet donations!
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Posted by broncfan1661 at 05:12 PM : Jun 26, 2008
Perzactly! Just like he voted for *** Cheney''s energy bill...and all those nice oil and energy CEO''s and their wives, and children, and granny, and grandad, and aunt Martha, and Uncle Tom...all of a sudden had money at the maximum amount to post!
Strange isn''t it...how he just HATES big money, unless it is working to buy him support!
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Posted by Questionnews at 05:15 PM : Jun 26, 2008
That''s a very sad but true statement. Sometimes all you can do is "go against" a position, rather than fully support a position. This year we have to do something differently than we have for the past 7+ years. Like I said earlier, Obama is NOT a perfect candidate, but he''s a lot closer than is McCain.
Take a stand, vote your conscience, vote for a third party candidate.
Who cares who wins this election . . . in four years we can find a different candidate who''s cahnge we can actually believe in.
......... no kidding.
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Posted by RGRXX175
Great Idea!! My family will make BANK if we starts war with IRAN. Not to mention the permenant tax cut. Can''t be sweeter deal than that.
the truth is out there....
{
switch(rev wrights church)
case "racist":
messagebox.show("Obama is bad for this country")
break;
case "marxist":
messagebox.show("he is a Marxist")
Me
}
Posted by obama8years at 04:46 PM : Jun 26, 2008
Fatal Error - does not compute - wrong Operating System - Error is being forwarded...
His base needs to dump his asss, let the GOP win, and in four years, elect a candidate who isn''t a lying sack of sh!!t.
To make matters worse, he and his party are also embracing Scooter Libby justice by granting immunity to the telecom companies. And what did it take to get Obama''s party to join the GOP on spying on Americans and embracing in Scooter Libby justice?
All it took were campaign donations. That;s it: just more of the legalized graft and corruption of that Obama is obviously willing to embrace.
The issue that comes to mind now though, after this FISA bill, is how would Barack have really voted on the Iraq War had his vote mattered for anything. THis FISA bill strongly suggests that his vote would have been with the GOP.
Barack Obama is a say-anything, lying, fraud. Wake the hello up America!!!
The other thing that I find most amusing about the Obama apologists, is the pathetic and inevitable argument that they make that we''re stuck with Obama because McCain is such a bad choice. The Obama apologists are DEFINITELY wrong about that. We the People can go ahead an let McCain get elected. LEt COngress get all bound u p for the next fours years. Let nothing get done. And in the meantime, we can all start sending money to John Edwards for an 2012 run. We can load him up with half a billion dollars heading into that election, and then see some real change we can believe in.
SO yeah, America screwed up in letting Obama and Clinton take the light during the primary. THe true agent of change is John Edwards, and he and we lost. But 2012 we can win. Let McCain have this election. We can have change we actually believe in in just four years. With Obama, it''s eight years of his lying fraud.
Castro and Obama share many of the same values and principles for the country''s economy:
1. Redistribute the country''s wealth - Marxism 101
2. Grow the size of the government - Create new departments dedicated to supporting Item 1
3. Blame greedy American corporations for the pains of the US and the rest of the world
4 Increase taxes on those already paying the largest percentage and total amount. The top 1% already pay 39% of all taxes.
5 Nationalize healthcare
Um, nope, he didn''''''''t. Sorry
What he said was he thought the price increase was too rapid, to me that meant that he agreed with the increase. Wait until he is through all the rats will be deserting the ship in droves.
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Posted by dmw1167 at 05:37 PM : Jun 26, 2008
Well said and worth repeating!
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