Scientists Date Events In "The Odyssey"

Discovery Lends Credence To Theory That Homer's Stories Contained Historical Truths

(AP)  Using clues from star and sun positions mentioned by the ancient Greek poet Homer, scholars think they have determined the date when King Odysseus returned from the Trojan War and slaughtered a group of suitors who had been pressing his wife to marry one of them.

It was on April 16, 1178 B.C. that the great warrior struck with arrows, swords and spears, killing those who sought to replace him, a pair of researchers say in Monday's online edition of Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.

Experts have long debated whether the books of Homer reflect the actual history of the Trojan War and its aftermath.

Marcelo O. Magnasco of Rockefeller University in New York and Constantino Baikouzis of the Astronomical Observatory in La Plata, Argentina, acknowledge they had to make some assumptions to determine the date Odysseus returned to his kingdom of Ithaca.

But interpreting clues in Homer's "Odyssey" as references to the positions of stars and a total eclipse of the sun allowed them to determine when a particular set of conditions would have occurred.

"What we'd like to achieve is to get the reader to pick up the "Odyssey," and read it again, and ponder," said Magnasco. "And to realize that our understanding of these texts is quite imperfect, and even when entire libraries have been written about Homeric studies, there is still room for further investigation."

Their study potentially adds support to the accuracy of Homer's writing.

"Under the assumption that our work turns out to be correct, it adds to the evidence that he knew what he was talking about," Magnasco said. "It still does not prove the historicity of the return of Odysseus," he said. "It only proves that Homer knew about certain astronomical phenomena that happened much before his time."

Homer reports that on the day of the slaughter the sun is blotted from the sky, possibly a reference to an eclipse. In addition, he mentions more than once that it is the time of a new moon, which is necessary for a total eclipse, the researchers say.

Other clues include:

Six days before the slaughter, Venus is visible and high in the sky.

Twenty-nine days before, two constellations - the Pleiades and Bootes - are simultaneously visible at sunset.

And 33 days before, Mercury is high at dawn and near the western end of its trajectory. This is the researchers' interpretation, anyway. Homer wrote that Hermes, the Greek name for Mercury, traveled far west to deliver a message.

"Of course we believe it's amply justified, otherwise we would not commit it to print. However we do recognize there's less ammunition to defend this interpretation than the others," Magnasco said.

"Even though the other astronomical references are much clearer, our interpretation of them as allusions to astronomical phenomena is an assumption," he added in an interview via e-mail.

For example, Magnasco said, Homer writes that as Odysseus spread his sails out of Ogygia, "sleep did not weigh on his eyelids as he watched the Pleiades, and late-setting Bootes, and the Bear."

"We assume he means that as Odysseus set sail shortly after sunset, at nautical twilight the Pleiades and Bootes were simultaneously visible, and that Bootes would be the later-setting of the two," Magnasco explained. "It is a good assumption because every member of his audience would know what was being discussed, as the Pleiades and Bootes were important to them to know the passage of the seasons and would be very familiar with which times of the year they were visible. Remember the only calendar they had was the sky."

Since the occurrence of an eclipse and the various star positions repeat over different periods of time, Magnasco and Baikouzis set out to calculate when they would all occur in the order mentioned in the "Odyssey."

And their result has Odysseus exacting his revenge on April 16, 1178 B.C.


© MMVIII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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Add a Comment See all 21 Comments

by rf35 June 23, 2008 6:01 PM PDT

Sweet. While the work obviously contains a healthy dose of fiction, "The Odyssey" is nonetheless an important piece of historical literature.

Reply to this comment

by guadalcanal3 June 23, 2008 7:46 PM PDT

babykiller...This article is nothing like Nostradmus...not even close...these are not predictions...they are hypothesis based on the best available facts aka "astronomical" observations...not "astrological"...Nostradamus used astrology...these scientists are using Astronomy...You seem very smug in your critique...do you have a better and more scientific explanation?

Reply to this comment

by Latrocinor June 23, 2008 7:49 PM PDT

Pretty slick!

Reply to this comment

by ennius-2009 June 23, 2008 8:27 PM PDT

It has long been held that the events of the Trojan War happened in the the 12th century BC. This date is well within that time frame. We have found Troy and most of the other major cities in the epics. Ithaca''s true location is still in dispute, but theories are still being advanced for several places.

babykiller is obviously uninformed as to the scholarship of the Homeric traditions. I''ll bet that he/she can''t even read Ancient Greek! I''ve read Homer in his native tongue.

Reply to this comment

by hbevis June 23, 2008 10:01 PM PDT

The people have put a lot of work into this and it just adds to the effort of other people over the years that have thought and studied on this Subject. Homer wrote a very good book. And it is only natural that other men would try and see if they could figure out whether or not he used real observations in his writings.

Reply to this comment

by feelfree4u June 23, 2008 10:15 PM PDT

Much like the bible, many fictional works have at least some factual basis.

Reply to this comment

by stn_sage June 23, 2008 11:49 PM PDT

Great job of deductive reasoning!

Reply to this comment

by kansas1946 June 23, 2008 11:56 PM PDT

This article smacks of Nostradamus, wedging certain facts where we want them to go, to attain a desired result. We''''re calling this "science" now are we? How many times does this so-called scientist use the word "assume" or "assumption" in the above article?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by babykilller at 07:38 PM : Jun 23, 2008
***********************************

And your point is??

Reply to this comment

by im69wired June 24, 2008 12:05 AM PDT

In their publish-or-perish world, they had to come up with SOMETHING...............

Reply to this comment

by closethippy1 June 24, 2008 12:11 AM PDT

Funny how the Odyssey and the Bible were written pretty much at the same time.
It was their sci-fi, their way of entertaining themselves with tall stories that became even more enjoyable when they had a meaning.
We do the same these days. I just hope that some day in the future Star Trek''s Spock will not be considered the new Jesus.

Reply to this comment

by connapa June 24, 2008 12:30 AM PDT

One other fact also lends credence to the date of April 16. Looks like he would have also been experiencing additional stressors having just filed his federal tax returns on April 15. That''s what probably pushed him over the edge.

Reply to this comment

by pianoman42 June 24, 2008 7:57 AM PDT

What have I been fed all these years? They taught me Troy was a small place, was sacked at least six times and Homer wrote the fictional Iliad to flatter the Greek princes and their ''well-grieved'' men. Now this latest is that it is historically true. Shattered. (Still don''t believe in the Cyclopes though.)

Reply to this comment

by faith_in_w June 24, 2008 9:03 AM PDT

If these people were Chistians, they would know how adulterous affairs can ruin lives.

Reply to this comment

by red1530 June 24, 2008 9:18 AM PDT

The editors of CBS must of been asleep during astronomy 101. The Pleiades is not a constellation, it is an open cluster also known as M45

Reply to this comment

by pdchapin June 24, 2008 9:21 AM PDT

I just hope that some day in the future Star Trek''''s Spock will not be considered the new Jesus.

Posted by closethippy1 at 12:11 AM : Jun 24, 2008

We could do a lot worse.

Reply to this comment

by secundus2 June 24, 2008 10:09 AM PDT

Yes, and Beowulf blew his nose in his handkerchief at Hygelac''s funeral around 10 a.m. on June 24, 521.

Some matters in epic are historical, but most such things refer to culture, not to events.

Reply to this comment

by antoniof123 June 24, 2008 10:12 AM PDT

I beleive it so now lets move on I was not around back then so nothing I can do.

If you saw a UFO I believe you lets move on nothing I can do about it.

No don''t ask anyone to write something up do it your selves then we will look it over.

Reply to this comment

by Razzl June 24, 2008 10:48 AM PDT

That''s a pretty spectacular level of precision given that the Iliad studies have pegged that half of the story to around 1180 bce (archaeologists have dropped the "bc/ad=before Christ/anno domini [after Christ]" scheme in favor of ce="common era"); this would put the start of the events of the odyssey within 2 years after the fall of troy, a completely realistic time frame for an actual sorting out of troops, treasure, and disembarkations.

If you find this topic interesting by all means get hold of a copy of Michael Wood''s epic 1986 BBC documentary on the Trojan War, especially the chapter on the Hittites, whose royal archive contained a single clay tablet that seems to refer to the actual war:

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Trojan-War-Colin-Renfrew/dp/B0001KL5BW

Reply to this comment

by texanforlogi June 24, 2008 11:41 AM PDT

This is just fascinating! I''m glad to see Homer proving true. I''m not surprised--Schliemann believed Homer too and, using his works, he discovered the ruins of Troy!

Reply to this comment

by cfin5 June 24, 2008 1:17 PM PDT

Interesting! I think this time frame is around (afterwards?) the time of NASA''s "missing day". I wonder how this affects this articles accuracy. In the book of Joshua, chapter 10:12-15 it says......

Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel,

"O sun, stand still at Gibeon,
And O moon in the valley of Aijalon."
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies.

Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel. Then Joshua and all Israel with him returned to the camp to Gilgal.
Notice how it says "about" a whole day. This has been calculated to be 23 hours and 20 minutes. The rest was found to make up for the missing time in 2 Kings 20:10 where the Sun went backwards 10 degrees which is 40 minutes of time........History is so cool!

Reply to this comment

by imarltool2u June 24, 2008 1:30 PM PDT

june 24, 2008. the sun is out. the sky is blue. oh my.

Reply to this comment

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[rf35]

Sweet. While the work obviously contains a healthy dose of fiction, "The Odyssey" is nonetheless an important piece of historical literature.

[guadalcanal3]

babykiller...This article is nothing like Nostradmus...not even close...these are not predictions...they are hypothesis based on the best available facts aka "astronomical" observations...not "astrological"...Nostradamus used astrology...these scientists are using Astronomy...You seem very smug in your critique...do you have a better and more scientific explanation?

[Latrocinor]

Pretty slick!

[ennius-2009]

It has long been held that the events of the Trojan War happened in the the 12th century BC. This date is well within that time frame. We have found Troy and most of the other major cities in the epics. Ithaca''s true location is still in dispute, but theories are still being advanced for several places.

babykiller is obviously uninformed as to the scholarship of the Homeric traditions. I''ll bet that he/she can''t even read Ancient Greek! I''ve read Homer in his native tongue.

[hbevis]

The people have put a lot of work into this and it just adds to the effort of other people over the years that have thought and studied on this Subject. Homer wrote a very good book. And it is only natural that other men would try and see if they could figure out whether or not he used real observations in his writings.

[feelfree4u]

Much like the bible, many fictional works have at least some factual basis.

[stn_sage]

Great job of deductive reasoning!

[kansas1946]

This article smacks of Nostradamus, wedging certain facts where we want them to go, to attain a desired result. We''''re calling this "science" now are we? How many times does this so-called scientist use the word "assume" or "assumption" in the above article?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by babykilller at 07:38 PM : Jun 23, 2008
***********************************

And your point is??

[im69wired]

In their publish-or-perish world, they had to come up with SOMETHING...............

[closethippy1]

Funny how the Odyssey and the Bible were written pretty much at the same time.
It was their sci-fi, their way of entertaining themselves with tall stories that became even more enjoyable when they had a meaning.
We do the same these days. I just hope that some day in the future Star Trek''s Spock will not be considered the new Jesus.

[connapa]

One other fact also lends credence to the date of April 16. Looks like he would have also been experiencing additional stressors having just filed his federal tax returns on April 15. That''s what probably pushed him over the edge.

[pianoman42]

What have I been fed all these years? They taught me Troy was a small place, was sacked at least six times and Homer wrote the fictional Iliad to flatter the Greek princes and their ''well-grieved'' men. Now this latest is that it is historically true. Shattered. (Still don''t believe in the Cyclopes though.)

[faith_in_w]

If these people were Chistians, they would know how adulterous affairs can ruin lives.

[red1530]

The editors of CBS must of been asleep during astronomy 101. The Pleiades is not a constellation, it is an open cluster also known as M45

[pdchapin]

I just hope that some day in the future Star Trek''''s Spock will not be considered the new Jesus.

Posted by closethippy1 at 12:11 AM : Jun 24, 2008

We could do a lot worse.

[secundus2]

Yes, and Beowulf blew his nose in his handkerchief at Hygelac''s funeral around 10 a.m. on June 24, 521.

Some matters in epic are historical, but most such things refer to culture, not to events.

[antoniof123]

I beleive it so now lets move on I was not around back then so nothing I can do.

If you saw a UFO I believe you lets move on nothing I can do about it.

No don''t ask anyone to write something up do it your selves then we will look it over.

[Razzl]

That''s a pretty spectacular level of precision given that the Iliad studies have pegged that half of the story to around 1180 bce (archaeologists have dropped the "bc/ad=before Christ/anno domini [after Christ]" scheme in favor of ce="common era"); this would put the start of the events of the odyssey within 2 years after the fall of troy, a completely realistic time frame for an actual sorting out of troops, treasure, and disembarkations.

If you find this topic interesting by all means get hold of a copy of Michael Wood''s epic 1986 BBC documentary on the Trojan War, especially the chapter on the Hittites, whose royal archive contained a single clay tablet that seems to refer to the actual war:

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Trojan-War-Colin-Renfrew/dp/B0001KL5BW

[texanforlogi]

This is just fascinating! I''m glad to see Homer proving true. I''m not surprised--Schliemann believed Homer too and, using his works, he discovered the ruins of Troy!

[cfin5]

Interesting! I think this time frame is around (afterwards?) the time of NASA''s "missing day". I wonder how this affects this articles accuracy. In the book of Joshua, chapter 10:12-15 it says......

Then Joshua spoke to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel,

"O sun, stand still at Gibeon,
And O moon in the valley of Aijalon."
So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,
Until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies.

Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. And there was no day like that before it or after it, when the LORD listened to the voice of a man; for the LORD fought for Israel. Then Joshua and all Israel with him returned to the camp to Gilgal.
Notice how it says "about" a whole day. This has been calculated to be 23 hours and 20 minutes. The rest was found to make up for the missing time in 2 Kings 20:10 where the Sun went backwards 10 degrees which is 40 minutes of time........History is so cool!

[imarltool2u]

june 24, 2008. the sun is out. the sky is blue. oh my.