Fill 'Er Up - But Make It Hydrogen

Car Of The Future May Run On Hydrogen, Not Gasoline; Lucky Few Win Chance To Rent

(CBS)  Actress Jamie Lee Curtis feels like she's really won a prize.

"I felt like I won an Oscar," says Curtis.

But it's not an Academy Award that's got her excited. It's the chance to rent the potential car of the future - one fueled entirely by hydrogen, not gasoline, reports CBS News correspondent Hattie Kauffman.

Honda's new hydrogen car rents for $600 a month. That may not sound exciting, but from 50,000 applicants for the new cars, Curtis will receive the first one off the assembly line this summer.

"Our family is going to pay for the privilege of having the chance to show, by action, a car that is an alternative to gasoline," she says.

Only 200 other customers will be able to rent this car that runs on clean-burning hydrogen instead of gasoline. The cost to build this car? - about $100,000.

Vasilios Manousiouthakis, a professor of chemical engineering at UCLA, has been driving a Mercedes hydrogen test car for two years.

"You're on the freeway, it can go with the other cars faster than them; you're looking for the police whenever needed," says Manousiouthakis.

But the real problem with these cars is keeping them filled up - there are very few fueling stations. Even here in Southern California with the greatest concentratrion of stations, there are still fewer than 20.

Experts say the car companies and hydrogen suppliers are playing a chicken and egg game.

"They're kind of saying, 'Here's what we can do, but we have to wait for the infrastructure to come out,'" says Jonathan Linkow, managing editor for automobiles at Consumer Reports. "And the infrastructure people are saying, 'We will not make the investment in hydrogen fuel stations until we see more products.'"

In the meantime, Manousiouthakis makes do. His car can only travel 80 miles on a tank of fuel, and the nearest hydrogen station is 10 miles from his home.

On this day, the fuel pump is broken. With the nearest hydrogen station another 10 miles away, Manousiouthakis knows his car won't make it.

"I need desperately fuel right now. I'm literally on fumes so I cannot get out," he says.

It takes two men and a consultant on the phone to solve the problem.

"It takes commitment," says Manousiouthakis.

Right now, hydrogen is free - subsidized by cities promoting alternative energy like Santa Monica. Hydrogen advocates estimate it would cost about the same as a gallon of gas, though hydrogen cars get twice the mileage.

Experts say it'll be a decade before hydrogen cars are widely available, if ever. For now, only a select group are in on the experiment and Curtis, for one, doesn't mind the speed bumps that may come along with it.

"Even if it is a little bit of a hassle," she says, "to me it is so worth it."

[mattcbsmatt]

Well fuel cell things donot stink
SMALL, REMOTE, SUCURE, safe NUCLUAR TO HYDROGEN FACILITIES
United States Of America
U Suck Oily ***
I GUESS THET LIKE THE STINKY STUFF
This HYDROGEN fuel cell stuff is just a passing gas phase a farty fad :)

[bikebrains]

Hydrogen can be made from water by using an aluminun-gallium alloy to split the hydrogen from the oxygen. Thus the hydrogen is stored in the car as water. To learn more about making hydrogen ON DEMAND, go to http://hydrogen.ecn.purdue.edu/

[notblue]

No refueling infrastructure, no way to efficiently harvest the hydrogen, until the hydrogen can be harvested from the ocean floor or a chemical prossess hydrogen will remain unviable for the masses. Hydrogen through electrolisis requires more BTU''s to produce than what is ended up with in fuel.

[kenhamlett]

"Cars that poop. "
Uh, isn''t that called a horse and buggy?

[kenhamlett]

This is our best bet so far in fulfilling the need for cheap plentiful energy. My concerns are numerous though. The first concern is in regard to why such an incredibly plentiful fuel should cost more than a few pennies for the equivalent energy of a gallon of gasoline. Also of concern is why retail sources are still basically rare extensions of the automobile companies. There is no incentive to buy a car that uses hydrogen if it is obvious that its needs can not be fulfilled.
Finally on another train of thought is the ease and safety of fuel transfer and storage. This is the real worry since the average consumer is likely to blow himself to bits trying to fill his tank. Of course the real problem is that the consumer may not be very safety oriented but in this world we have to take that into consideration.
Let''s get with this as the primary energy source instead of the alternative but lets do it safely and cheaply.

[rf35]

A lot of people are missing the fact that the fuel cell produces electricity. It''s an electric car, nimrods, not a combustion engine. As for hydrogen production, the US DOE is using a species of algae that produces hydrogen as a waste product. With a few more years%u2019 development and some selective breeding to maximize production, they can be the primary hydrogen source for HFC electric cars. They need water and sunlight to do their job (oh, and a tank to live in and collect the waste hydrogen). Algae farts could power your car. How about that? Hey global warming sheep who say the water vapor is a greenhouse gas...the internal combustion engine produces more water vapor per mile than the HFC. Sorry to spoil your rant. Edintex, maybe now would be a good time to sell that oil company stock.

[lewiston14]

sidvicious99: What are you rambling about? You can get nuked driving a 50 ton 18 wheeler. If it bothers you so much dont drive. A bike will get you nuked 100 times faster and walking on the side walk will also get you at some point. There is always the basement.

[joecoolswat]

I think I''m going to vote for Obama too.....even thought the media brings up all his hate for america and his hate for white folks, I''m going to ignore all those facts and still vote for him.....because we need change.....change is much more important than experience anyday.....Obama is young, and being young is so much more important, then him negotiating with terrorists.......You got any more Barry-Berry Koolaid? I ran out

[andor3]

keep in mind in comparing gasoline to hydrogen and debating energy density... gasoline engines are terribly inefficient and most of the energy stored in your gasoline tank is wasted. And gasoline engines have reached their peak of development (and they are a terrible contraption, with strapped on coolers and pumps and lubrication and toxic fluids. Not to mention polluting emissions.

It is possible a hydrogen engine could be more efficient, cleaner in emissions, require less add-on toxic chemicals. So lower energy density may not be a factor.

[aerhed]

I''ve just sold my business and one of my next projects will be an electric car. It''s rediculously easy with off the shelf parts. 100MPH, 200 mile range all-wheel drive with total torque control is now a piece of cake. I will create a fab off-roader, drive it down the highway to Moab for nothin''. The rock crawlers will think I''m a god, Exxon will try to kill me (good luck), and the fossils can eat my voltage. Check out pmlflightlink.com for wheelmotors, controllers, etc. They have built 640HP electric minis (0-60,4sec). Tesla has an all electric roadster that will TOAST. Sure it''s currently a 100 grand, look at it, it''s got Lotus coachwork (whaddya expect), but the parts are out there. DON''T WAIT! MAKE YOUR OWN ELECTRIC CAR AND STOP WHINING! ANY MOTORHEAD CAN DO IT! Some smart-*** Jethro made a crack about my prius today. All Jethros will soon be sitting in their dually power-stroke moron machines with an empty tank and wishing they hadn''t gotten a sub-prime mortgage so they could afford an expedition for the old lady and a trialer full of motor toys for themselves.

[aerhed]

Okay, here goes nothin''. I''ve been living off the grid on solar for sixteen years now. The average homeowner has like 2 to 4 times the surface area he needs on his own ROOF. All you gotta do is stick up a few KW worth of panels, buy a grid-tie inverter, call your power company and have them put in a net-meter (no charge). You will be making more power than you use. This is not bullsheet, if you call me a liar I will kill your neanderthal ***. There are tax credits to help ease the pain. If you tell me you can''t afford it then sell that stupid HUMMMer, your stupid four wheelers, and get your fat-***** out and walk for awhile.

[singingrick]

TruUSA

Did you actually read the books?

lol!

[edintex]

Hydrogen by weight has FOUR TIMES the energy potential as gasoline.
Posted by DemWatcher at 10:21 PM : Jun 22, 2008

Correction...The advantage of hydrogen as a fuel is that it stores approximately 2.6 times the energy per unit mass as gasoline, the disadvantage is that it needs about 4 times the volume for a given amount of energy. A 15 gallon automobile gasoline tank contains 90 pounds of gasoline. The corresponding hydrogen tank would be 60 gallons, but the hydrogen would weigh only 34 pounds. Big hydrogen tanks make big bombs in an accident!

[edintex]

Posted by DemWatcher at 10:15 PM : Jun 22, 2008

Hydrogen is combustible over a wide range of concentrations. At atmospheric pressure, hydrogen is combustible at concentrations from 4% to 74.2% by volume.
Hydrogen has the highest burning velocity of any gas.
Hydrogen has a very low ignition energy.
Hydrogen temperature increases as the gas expands.
Hydrogen that is allowed to expand rapidly from high pressure can self ignite.
Hydrogen burns with a nonluminous flame which can be invisible under bright light.

SOUNDS LIKE A SAFE FUEL TO ME! I''ll tell you what, YOU go ahead and let YOUR faily ride on top of a hydrogen tank. I''ll stick with gasoline. I bet many many other people feel the same way. THAT is why hydrogen has had a hard time catching on.

[demwatcher]

"Right now it takes 7 gallons of fossil fuel to make 8 gallons of hydrogen, that has the energy of 5 gallons of fossil fuel.
Hydrogen is not yet a vialble solution. Burning hydrogen produces water vapor, which is 84% of our greenhouse gas. How is that solving anything?

Posted by kesac4650 at 10:13 PM : Jun 22, 2008"

Where do you get your information, a cracker-jack box?

Hydrogen by weight has FOUR TIMES the energy potential as gasoline.

Using hydrogen as fuel recombines the hydrogen atom with an oxygen atom. This is how it was to START with if you use electrolysis (which is the most common method) to produce hydrogen.

So, kiddies, in total, you break even, generating the same amount of water molecules as you broke apart. You ARE NOT adding greenhouse gases, you are just replacing ones you took out of the system.

[demwatcher]

"Hmmm...Lets see...Hydrogen is stored in a porous solid, so it can''''''''t "explode", right? What if the tank is punctured, say in an accident, are you saying the hydrogen won''''t burn HOTTER AND FASTER THAN GASOLINE? Burning hotter and faster makes it what makes hydrogen "e-x-p-l-o-s-i-v-e"...get it. Hydrogen will always burn hottoer and faster than gasoline. Go back to school little boy.

Posted by edintex at 08:54 PM : Jun 22, 2008"

The rate of release of a gas from a porous solid in a tank is a fraction of the rate of a punctured tank without it. Limit the amount of available fuel and you limit the power of any possible explosion. You would most likely only get a flame burning at the point of puncture (if even that) and NOT an explosion.

Maybe YOU should START going to school, child.

[kesac4650]

Right now it takes 7 gallons of fossil fuel to make 8 gallons of hydrogen, that has the energy of 5 gallons of fossil fuel.
Hydrogen is not yet a vialble solution. Burning hydrogen produces water vapor, which is 84% of our greenhouse gas. How is that solving anything?

[rushlimpdrug]

"Experts say it''ll be a decade before hydrogen cars are widely available, if ever."

"if ever."

[edintex]

Gasoline is more expensive than hydrogen, edintex, you idiot. Hydrogen is stored in a porous solid, so it can''''t "explode".
Posted by badasssss at 07:10 PM : Jun 22, 2008

Hmmm...Lets see...Hydrogen is stored in a porous solid, so it can''''t "explode", right? What if the tank is punctured, say in an accident, are you saying the hydrogen won''t burn HOTTER AND FASTER THAN GASOLINE? Burning hotter and faster makes it what makes hydrogen "e-x-p-l-o-s-i-v-e"...get it. Hydrogen will always burn hottoer and faster than gasoline. Go back to school little boy.

[prelgovisk]

It takes electricity to make Hydrogen. In my country, Puerto Rico, ALL electricity is made from generators fueled by gasoline. It just seems to me, if all the cars are hydrogen or electric, they will still all get their power from gasoline burned by our generators The generators now do not fuel the elctric cars or send their electricity to Hydrogen plants, so if these cars come online it will mean more gas to make the extra electricity. Won''t we just burn the same amount of gas, but in a different place?