WASHINGTON, June 17, 2008
Dem: Pentagon Sought Harsh Interrogations
Military Lawyers Objected In 2002 To Abusive Techniques, Top Senate Democrat Says
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Military lawyers warned against the harsh detainee interrogation techniques approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in 2002, contending in separate memos weeks before Rumsfeld's endorsement that they could be illegal, a US Senate panel has found. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)
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Who's Who The Sept. 11 Defendants The five prisoners, led by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, charged with plotting the attacks.
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Interactive Gitmo Tribunals Detainees on trial, photos and a history of the naval base.
The findings, detailed in a hearing Tuesday, brought rebukes of the Pentagon effort from Democrats and Republicans alike.
"The guidance (administration lawyers) provided will go down in history as some of the most irresponsible and shortsighted legal analysis ever provided to our nation's military and intelligence communities," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., an Air Force Reserve colonel who teaches military law for the service.
The hearing is the Senate Armed Services Committee's first look at the origins of harsh interrogation methods and how policy decisions were vetted across the Defense Department. Its review fits into a broader picture of the government's handling of detainees, which includes FBI and CIA interrogations in secret prisons.
The panel is expected to hold further hearings on the matter and release a final report by the end of the year.
Among its initial findings is that senior Pentagon lawyers, including the office of general counsel William "Jim" Haynes, sought information as early as July 2002 regarding a military program that trained U.S. troops how to survive enemy interrogations and deny foes valuable intelligence.
Much of the training program, known as "Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape," or SERE, is based on experiences of American prisoners of war in previous conflicts, including those in Korea and Vietnam.
In response, SERE officials provided Haynes' office a list of tactics that included sensory deprivation, sleep disruption and stress positions.
Haynes, who resigned his post in February, testified that he remembers receiving the information, but that he did not recall requesting it personally.
Several of those techniques, including stress positions, were later approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld in a December 2002 memo for use at Guantanamo Bay. Rumsfeld and Haynes agreed to the methods, despite objections by military service lawyers that they might be illegal.
"Whatever interrogation techniques we adopt will eventually become public knowledge," wrote Col. John Ley of the Army's Judge Advocate General office in November 2002. "If we mistreat detainees, we will quickly lose the (moral) high ground and public support will erode."
Haynes said he too had misgivings, but that he was unaware of the legal objections in the military services. He said he was doing the best he could to help prevent another major terrorist attack.
"There was a limited amount of time and a high degree of urgency," Haynes said of his decision to cut short at one point a department-wide review of the legality of the interrogation methods.
Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said Rumsfeld's endorsement paved the way for abuses to occur in Iraq and Afghanistan and makes U.S. troops more likely to someday be tortured if captured by the enemy.
"If we use those same techniques offensively against detainees, it says to the world that they have America's stamp of approval," said Levin.
The committee also released previously secret and privately held documents on Tuesday. According to minutes from an October 2002 meeting, a top military lawyer at Guantanamo said prisoners were exposed to previously forbidden techniques, such as sleep deprivation, but that such treatment was hidden from the International Committee of the Red Cross.
"Officially it is not happening," Lt. Col. Diane Beaver said in the meeting. "It is not being reported officially. The ICRC is a serious concern. They will be in and out, scrutinizing our operations, unless they are displeased and decide to protest and leave. This would draw a lot of negative attention."
A senior CIA lawyer at the meeting, John Fredman, explained that whether harsh interrogation amounted to torture "is a matter of perception." The only sure test for torture is if the detainee died.
"If the detainees dies, you're doing it wrong," Fredman said.
Beaver wrote a now-infamous Oct. 11, 2002, memo that determined abusive methods could be used against detainees at Guantanamo Bay prison because they were not considered prisoners of war. Her proposed methods included extended isolation, 20-hour interrogations, death threats and waterboarding.
On Tuesday, Beaver told the committee that she was "shocked" that her memo became the primary justification for Rumsfeld's approval to use harsher methods.
She had asked her superiors for input because those working at Guantanamo and engaged in the interrogation program "don't always have the best perspective."
White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the administration does not review every legal opinion, but that its position has been "to deal with these detainees humanely" and "get the information from them that we can to protect this country."
Notably absent from the hearing Tuesday was the Senate's biggest champion of detainee rights and the top Republican on the committee, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. A former prisoner of war, McCain has become less visible on the issue of detainee treatment since becoming a presidential candidate.
McCain was in San Antonio on Tuesday giving a speech on energy and attending campaign fundraisers.
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See all 115 CommentsIf you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.
Posted by willyhenail at 09:19 PM : Jun 17, 2008
That doesn''t seem to be working for ya...
As of two years ago: http://www.aclu.org/intlhumanrights/gen/21236prs20051024.html
27 year old male civilian, died in US custody approximately 72 hours after being apprehended. By report, physical force was required during his apprehension during a raid. During confinement, he was hooded, sleep deprived, and subjected to hot and cold environmental conditions, including the use of cold water on his body and hood. Intramuscular hemorrhage of anterior aspect of right shoulder. No significant evidence of natural disease. Concludes that cause of death cannot be determined. The decedent was also subjected to cold and wet conditions and hypothermia may have contributed to his death. DOD 003323 refers to this case with the notation "Q[uestioned] by NSWT [Navy Seals], struggled/interrogated/died sleeping." Preliminary autopsy report of this individual is at DOD 003260 -003261. Death certificate is at DOD 003300.
Case 03-504 - blunt force trauma and choking, died during interrogation, autopsy done.
Case 03-571 - blunt force trauma and choking, dured during interrogation, autopsy done.
Case 04-014, blunt force trauma and choking, gagged in standing restraint, autopsy done.
Unnumbered case - gunshot wound to abdomen: "shot without provocation", no autopsy done, not reported.
Posted by rafterman1 at 03:26 PM : Jun 17, 2008
Isn''t it a bit odd that after 7 years we can''t defeat these guys or find Osama Bin Laden? The most powerful military in the world stymied by guys running around in caves?
If the plan was to stop them, we would''ve by now.
Principles? Are you speaking of the 900 documented lies spewed forth by our criminal in chief? Or maybe you''ve found the missing airplane wreckage from the supposed penatagon attack? Or maybe you''ve figured out how the twin-towers fell at the rate of gravity when the weakening point of structural steel is 2700 degrees when the actual fire never reached above 1800?
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Posted by jboxton at 09:45 AM : Jun 17, 2008
What''s making this country weak is all the criminal activity being pursued in the name of greed. This war was all part of the endless war game plan concocted by the Bush/Cheney/Suadi crime syndicate with the goal of the largest transfer of wealth the world has ever known. Or maybe you haven''t noticed gas prices or the billions wasted/scammed/embezzled engaging an undefeatable, inexhaustable, army of religious zealots?
If you gotta blame anyone, other than the criminals running our country, start with yourself for buying into the hype offered by the bought and paid for "talking heads."
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Posted by frankson2 at 01:55 PM : Jun 17, 2008
What some fail to see is that the Dems and the Reps are all playin on the same team having been bought by the same masters. The "digging up" information is only the dog and pony show for appearances to distance the individual congressman or senator from the fallout associated with all the criminal activity they all know full well is occurring.
Otherwise impeachment wouldn''t be "off the table," it''d be the centerpiece of Ms. Pelosi''s tenure. Shame on the Dems and Reps alike.
Thank you very much for not killing these detainees immediately when they were captured in Afghanistan.
President Bush is the Greatest president ever for the Democratic Party.
Nothing new here...just another normal usual daily LIE from president Bush.
I am disappointed in our Pentagoons.
Apparently "Rummy", having attended a "Rambo" film festival, came to believe that if Rambo could stand the pain of torture, so could the detainees and authorized the treatment, which was quickly endorsed by both VP Darth Vader Cheney and, according to that evil turncoat Scott McClellan, by the Great Emperor Bush II himself. Naturally, it didn''t matter that everything was illegal, so long as no one found out about it, and even if they did, what could they do about it? Lead a second American Revloution??
Now, with the Great Emperor Bush II about to exit the throne in the Oval Office (we hope!), the Great Emperor is contemplating, as a last act of his reign, a BLANKET AMNESTY for all those involved who worked for the Great Emperor for ANYTHING done from the beginning of time until the end of time, thus preventing the evil, cowardly Whimpo-crats from causing legal grief for those loyal to the cause of neocon Fascist Nazism!
SIG HEIL, BUSH!!!!
sig heil, DEFINITELY MORE OF THE SAME, McCain!!!!!
I, with 8 years of honorable service think it is time to behead those who broke our laws and run rough shod over our constitution. THOSE, Being to start with gw bush, next dic cheney, followed by a. gonzalez, rumsfield and the rest of the ba$****$ who has $crewed the American Rules of the GC to please themselves they used the men as the old Romans did with the lions and tigers, to see grown men suffer for no reason other than THEIR PESONAL pleasure.
I saw an article yesterday that gw bush might become a Catholic after leaving office I hope he does as they wil make it clear he can join all the churches and he is bound for hell and the fires of eternity with his friend the man with the horns and tail of fire.
I will leave the Catholic Church if he becomes a catholic. I nearly did so due to Blair joining the church but he was not quite the murder as gw bush and I do know I will head for the hills if he comes to my Church.
Frank Bowers of Austin, TX
1. Surrender to Corporations
2. Surrender US border
3. Release all terrorist from Bush Admin
4. Return Gitmo to Taliban
5. Partner with Saudi Arabia for peace. ha
6. Raise taxes on middle class and call it a fee increase
7. Appoint Bush lackeys to key positions
8. Do what Pentagon moles tell him
9. Continue what G.W. did Increase national debt
10. Buy more depends and geritol
Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don''t know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don''t know we don''t know.
1. Surrender to Corporations
2. Surrender US border
3. Release all terrorist from Bush Admin
4. Return Gitmo to Taliban
5. Partner with Saudi Arabia for peace. ha
6. Raise taxes on middle class and call it a fee increase
7. Appoint Bush lackeys to key positions
8. Do what Pentagon moles tell him
9. Increase national debt
10. Buy more depends
Posted by MCVet
hey bro - we''re sure lucky all these dumbos aren''t on the front line, or we''d be getting more than we''re getting now - these flat-liners haven''t a clue, they play "virtual war" on Tv screens where all you have to do is push the button!
There also appears to be a sizable number of people who are willfully ignoring the fact that we are wasting American lives and the wealth of the American people in a war which was, and is, more than obviously pointless in the extreme. Not only is it pointless, but it''s self-defeating. It has drastically reduced the ability to go after the terrorist organization which was the source of the attack on September 11, 2001. Look at that date again. September 11, 2001. 2001! SEVEN years ago...and we STILL aren''t tackling the real problem with the necessary resources because the delusionals who rule us never actually intended to.
They had OTHER priorities which they had publicly defined even before the election campaign in 2000. Among those other priorities, the invasion and occupation of Iraq on a more or less permanent basis was at the top of the list. Do your research. Look up the "Project For A New American Century"). Notice who signed it. Reseach the cabinet meeting the day after 9/11. Rumsfeld, among others, insisted on 9/12 that there would never be a better time to invade Iraq. Luckily for their prospects in 2004, Rice successfully argued against that on the premise that the American people would likely rise up in outrage at their behavior if they didn''t invade Afghanistan first since that was the ACTUAL source of the attack.
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