June 6, 2008

Clinton's Exit: When Push Came To Shove

Politico: Charles B. Rangel Was Behind Clinton's Exit From The Presidential Stage

  • House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel (D-NY) speaks to reporters during a news conference unveiling the Tax Reduction and Reform Act of 2007 at the U.S. Capitol October 25, 2007 in Washington, DC. Photo

    House Ways and Means Chairman Charles Rangel (D-NY) speaks to reporters during a news conference unveiling the Tax Reduction and Reform Act of 2007 at the U.S. Capitol October 25, 2007 in Washington, DC.  (GETTY IMAGES/Mark Wilson)

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(The Politico)  This story was written by Amie Parnes, Avi Zenilman and Ben Smith.
In the end, the same man who ushered Hillary Rodham Clinton into electoral politics nine years ago pushed her out.

On Wednesday, Clinton was asking supporters to wait - it was unclear for what - and to give her time to gather her thoughts. Many seemed willing to accede to the request, but Rep. Charles B. Rangel, the blunt, 77-year-old dean of New York’s congressional delegation, had had enough.

In public statements and on a crucial afternoon conference call, he told Clinton it was time to go. And Rangel, for reasons of state politics, personal history and race, is not a man Clinton could afford to ignore.

“Unless she has some good reasons - which I can’t think of - I really think we ought to get on with” endorsing Obama, he told ABC News yesterday afternoon.

Rangel figures large in the Clinton legend: According to the official story, he first suggested to Clinton that she run for Senate in New York. This year, he held Clinton’s African-American supporters in line for her, despite the temptation many felt to back her surging rival. And he’s a powerful figure in the state to which she now must return.

A staffer close to the Clinton campaign said the candidate took Rangel's response to heart. "She strongly values his opinions, and they definitely made her think about what was going on."

Rangel’s move came after what had become, for some of the House members who had endorsed Clinton, an unbearable day of uncertainty.

By the time the polls closed on Tuesday night and Barack Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee, it was clear to many of them that Clinton had to drop out.

After months of campaigning with her head down, the shift in pace and direction was going to be abrupt, no matter how long she took to gather her bearings.

"She wanted a day or two to talk to her supporters," said a source close to the Clinton campaign. "That was very important to her, especially because she's been in a bubble."

Yet she didn’t have that luxury, not after Tuesday’s speech, not after failing to even acknowledge that Obama had reached the delegate threshold necessary to claim the Democratic nomination. While her Senate colleagues were willing to wait a few more days until her formal exit, members of the House were intent on accelerating the end of her campaign.

She huddled at her Arlington, Va., headquarters Wednesday with top advisers, discussing her diminished options and leaving supporters free to mount a campaign on her behalf for the vice presidential nod. Even close supporters were unsure what she was waiting for, beyond a chance to clear her head, and all assumed she would be leaving the race within days.

But Clinton seemed to think she could postpone the inevitable and had her aides convene a pair of conference calls with Senate and House supporters. Her message, a prominent supporter said, was to be: “Please wait.”

The first call, around 4 p.m., went as planned. At least seven of Clinton's Senate supporters participated, and the tone was tame, even congratulatory.

Washington Sen. Patty Murray, who was on the call, described the exchange as cordial and respectful, with no demands that Clinton drop out and back Obama.

"There was tremendous pride in Sen. Clinton, and much of the conversation was focused on thanking her for her campaign,” she said.

Then, at 5 p.m., she spoke with House backers - including Rangel - for about 20 minutes.

"The tone of the call was 'What do you guys think?'" a source close to the campaign said.

Democratic House members who participated on the call said the first comments were supportive, expressing a willingness to wait.

Then Massachusetts Rep. Barney Frank - whose sister, Ann Lewis, is a top Clinton adviser - chimed in with a dose of reality.

"It just seemed to me, once it was over, it was over," he said in an interview Thursday. "I said she should go out with dignity and not look like she was being pushed."

"Someone said what about waiting a week, and I said this isn't going to hold," he explained. "You know you're not talking about the 10 best secret keepers in America."

Rangel then stepped in. Repeating his public comments from earlier in the afternoon, he stressed the need for party unity and expressed concern that New York Reps. Yvette D. Clarke, Gregory W. Meeks and Edolphus Towns - whose heavily black districts had voted for Obama - could face viable primary challenges from pro-Obama candidates if they didn't move quickly to get behind the presumptive nominee.

"She wanted to talk to supporters and get advice, so she got advice," Rangel told reporters Thursday. "Love and affection doesn't have a damn thing to do with counting votes."

Clinton understood the problem.

"Hillary would never want to do something that would impact another person's chances and jeopardize their seats," said someone familiar with the call.

On the call, Rangel was firm.

He suggested holding an event where Clinton could endorse Obama. "That way we're endorsing Barack through you," he told her.

"What I was worried about was, I couldn't explain it," Rangel said the next day. "'You want unity, you want someone to win, but you don't endorse? It doesn't work out."

Clinton ended the call on a note of gratitude. "Thank you all so much. You mean so much to me. We'll get moving with Charlie's idea," she said, according to a source.

But to her staffers, Rangel’s words added new urgency to their deliberations.

“Charlie’s comment certainly stood out,” said an aide.

Clinton hung up, advisers say, still without having made a final decision about the timing of her departure, but with a clear understanding that her window was closing. Her advisers began discussing the timing of her exit, and when word of preliminary plans for a Friday announcement leaked to ABC News, they knew they wouldn’t be able to beat back this final media wave.

Later that night, the Clinton campaign announced she would be holding a Friday rally "to thank her supporters and express her support for Sen. Obama and party unity."

In a mark of the haste with which the decision had been made, it was quickly changed: The event, a later press release said, would be on Saturday, not on Friday.

The three African-American members from New York whom Rangel had mentioned instantly announced they would endorse Obama.

Then, on Thursday, the entire New York congressional delegation stood in front of the Democratic National Committee building to announce, as a press release put it, "their unanimous approval of the decision by Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign to support the Democratic nomination of Sen. Barack Obama."

Rangel spoke on their behalf.

By Amie Parnes, Avi Zenilman and Ben Smith
Copyright 2008 POLITICO



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Add a Comment See all 347 Comments
by creeper00 June 6, 2008 5:32 PM PDT
So Rangel figures this will contribute to "party unity". I have news for Mr. Rangel. This Democrat is not going to pull the lever for Barack Obama. We''ve had an amateur in the White House for eight years. We don''t need another one. I refuse to sell my country down the river for the sake of "party unity".
Reply to this comment
by factsplease1 June 6, 2008 5:40 PM PDT
Wow I can''t believe there aren''t a million comments on this article. Usually by the time I read them there are hundreds. I found a very interesting article today that was referred on another story''s blog. I think everyone should read it before making any comments. Go www.TheCityEdition.com Commentary and Analysis The 2008 Presidential Primaries. This is totally scary!!!!
Reply to this comment
by rosemari2 June 6, 2008 5:42 PM PDT
The Democrats just lost most women my age, and where I live. I''m WAY over 60, live in the Midwest, in a deep rural area and still work in a factory (the oldest woman there still on the shop floor.) And Bush''s *** with my SS and tanking the economy is the reason I''m still working and will be till I go over in the harness.

The males in the Democratic party ruined Hilary''s chances at the beginning by endosing Obama and not letting the people choose, and in the end we don''t choose anyway..........the super Delegates get to, so what is the point of even bothering to Vote, eh?
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 5:44 PM PDT
As I said few the last few weeks of the primaries, the DNC was letting her run out the clock so she could drop out at the end with a little dignity and grace. She chose not to do that Tuesday night, so they told her that they would throw her overboard if she didn''t quit and she got the message.
Reply to this comment
by kramerboy1 June 6, 2008 5:52 PM PDT
Wow, she really handled this badly. No one likes a poor loser. You win with grace and lose with dignity, that''s what my Little league coaches taught me years ago. She is so self-consumed it isn''t even funny. Now she has to take guidance from those who aren''t looking through her rose-colored glasses. I don''t know how anyone in the Obama camp would even consider her as a potential VP. Her bad judgement and narcissant personality really came out these week. Those people who voted for her in SD are dolts.
Reply to this comment
by rushlimpdrug June 6, 2008 5:57 PM PDT

Rep. Charles B. Rangel
is a reetard.

He needs to be kicked out.

He has been in politics waaay tooo looong.

Please New York do everyone a favor and
put the old horse out to pasture.

The man is out of touch with EVERYTHING.
Reply to this comment
by randynason June 6, 2008 6:04 PM PDT
You''''re dumber than a box of donut holes.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by mortal3

That''s a good one. Wish I''d thought of that. I''m past worrying about some of these douch*bags that whine about Hillary, malign Obama and threaten to either not vote or vote for McStupid. These creatures can crawl under the nearest rock and pretend to not be involved at all, if that is their wish. It''s all-too-appparent to me that they neglect to utilize their cranium on the treadmill of life anyway, so who will miss them?
Reply to this comment
by element51 June 6, 2008 6:07 PM PDT
creeper....If you vote McCain you are most certainly "selling your country down the river". You say we have had an "amateur" in the White House for 8 years and McCain will just be a continuation of those 8 years. I urge you to do some research from credible sources and re-evaluate your position.
Reply to this comment
by pepperwood2 June 6, 2008 6:11 PM PDT
It''s now 3 AM Tuesday at the White House, Hillary reluctantly takes the call, the world''s most intelligent woman with 35 years experience, has just been notified that Iranian radical muslim terrists have just bombed Israel using an atomic bomb.

Several rockets with atomic warheads are now heading for targets in the US, Europe & other Allies.

Hillary''s reply - On Wednesday, Clinton was asking supporters to wait - it was unclear for what - and to give her time to gather her thoughts. A Sad Scenario but you got the picture.

Reply to this comment
by element51 June 6, 2008 6:13 PM PDT
rosemari2....Your post really caught my eye. I too am well past 60 and I am so sorry that you are still having to work every day when at this time in your life you should be able to do some of the things you always wanted to do and relax a little. I also admire Hillary and think she is a wonderful public servant but we must move forward. I beg you not to vote for McCain. If he is elected programs like social security will be devastated. If you can''t bring yourself to vote for Obama then don''t but please not McCain. Just look at what he did to his first wife. That shows you what kind of man he is.
Reply to this comment
by cbs4me3 June 6, 2008 6:14 PM PDT
As a Hillary Democrat, I will vote John McCain and the republican ticket here in Virginia. For me, it was a travesty the way Hillary was treated by party leaders, the super delegates, and the arrogance of the annointed one. John has the trust of the American people and equipped to bring peace and prosperity to this great Nation.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:15 PM PDT
A vote for John McCain is a vote to murder more of our troops in vain.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:16 PM PDT
Same scenario - Obama and McCain

Obama would negotiate with the nukes.
McCain would do the right thing.

Posted by easeltine at 06:14 PM : Jun 06, 2008

With Obama the nukes would never be fired in the first place and with McCain he''d sleep right through the phone call.
Reply to this comment
by middleman8 June 6, 2008 6:17 PM PDT
...three African members.....

What and why are three African members doing in a U S election ?
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:18 PM PDT
Better our troops than us buddy!

Posted by easeltine at 06:16 PM : Jun 06, 2008

I see. So you support our troops dying for nothing then? Interesting.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:19 PM PDT
What does your name stand for?

Posted by easeltine at 06:18 PM : Jun 06, 2008

It''s my initials and my rank when I was in the Air Force.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:21 PM PDT
We are establishing another Democracy in the Middle East besides Israel.

Posted by easeltine at 06:19 PM : Jun 06, 2008

That would be hilarious if wasn''t so deadly. The war in Iraq was started simply because war is very very profitable for the businesses that support Bush and Cheney. That''s it. That''s all. No WMD''s. No connection to 9-11. No fighting terrorism. Not even spreading democracy. Just for money.
Reply to this comment
by megamanx1-2009 June 6, 2008 6:23 PM PDT
IF YOU''RE GOING TO VOTE FOR JOHN MCCAIN,

AT LEAST HAVE THE DECENCY TO ATTEND SOME OF THE FUNERALS OF THE TROOPS YOU HAD PARTICIPATION IN KILLING.

IT''S ALL NICE AND WARM AND PATRIOTIC UNTIL YOUR LOVED ONE GETS SENT HOME IN A PINE BOX....

KEEP VOTING FOR THAT OLD FOOL. AND MAY YOU HAVE BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS AT THE VOTING BOOTH....
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:23 PM PDT
Do you actually, really think Senator Obama is a better choice than Senator McCain or Senator Clinton?

Posted by easeltine at 06:20 PM : Jun 06, 2008

Yes. Clinton and McCain are last centuries politics. McCain would be esp bad because it''s obvious that he is in the early stages of senile dementia or Alzheimer''s and can not be trusted with the job.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:25 PM PDT
easeltine

By all means we should have helped the Kurds in Iraq and that would have been a perfect way to help bring about the downfall of Saddam without invading. But the truth is invasion was more profitable for private contractors.
Reply to this comment
by cyberus-2009 June 6, 2008 6:28 PM PDT
---
Everyone complained, including Dean, about the Electoral College and the Supreme Court voting in Bush 2000 over Gore...but you have a system where Senator Clinton gets 18,000,000 votes, more than anyone in a Primary, & this party elite thing called the "Super Delegates" supersede the will of the people and put in Senator Obama.

Posted by easeltine
---
18 million votes more for Clinton??

If you are going to pull numbers out of your arse at least try to pull something reasonable 18 million is more approximately what each candidate got TOTAL and the spread is about 200000 *IF* you include Michigan where Hillary was the *ONLY* candidate on the ballot.
(I''m using approximate and about since reported firgures vary a few percent)

Either way so much for a *huge* popular vote win.

But congratulations on showing how little you actually knew .... being so far off makes it easier to see the BS.
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:32 PM PDT
easeltine

Senator McCain is senile. All of his experience does not help him there.
Reply to this comment
by realtime09 June 6, 2008 6:36 PM PDT
...Push Came To Shove...
...PRESENTED BY EXXONMOBLE...
VRRRROOMMMM.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 6:43 PM PDT
"DEAD MAN WALKING"

McCain''s medical report was so large they measured it by the pound. 1186 pages.

Obama''s medical report was one page.
Reply to this comment
by nanging3 June 6, 2008 6:44 PM PDT


www.thepetitionsite.com/1/removable-
of-father-michael-pfleger

Please sign to remove %u201CFather%u201D Pfleger permanently !


Reply to this comment
by cockapoo8 June 6, 2008 6:45 PM PDT
Thats more pages than Bill Clinton''s biography.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 6:46 PM PDT
Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA*
Obama - 17,869,542 47.4%
Clinton - 18,046,007 47.9%

What I was saying is that Senator Clinton got around 18,000,000 votes, which was more than anyone in a Primary ever. I didn''t pull a number out of my hat.

Posted by easeltine at 06:33 PM : Jun 06, 2008
------------------------

You must have been taught math by Hillary. You did not included the caucuses from 10 states and territories. COUNT ALL THE VOTES!
Reply to this comment
by cockapoo8 June 6, 2008 6:47 PM PDT
"Obama''''s medical report was one page."

Thats like the story of my sexxxx life.
Reply to this comment
by rushlimpdrug June 6, 2008 6:49 PM PDT

The headline should have read:

"Charles B. Rangel Throws Hillary Under The Bus"
Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 6:50 PM PDT
Senator McCain is a fine candidate in my opinion, what facts to you base on the idea he is senile?

Posted by easeltine at 06:37 PM : Jun 06, 2008

I base it on observation, both mine and my wife''s who is a professional psychiatric RN and who''s job it is to evaluate people to decide if they need to be hospitalized because of mental illness.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 6:51 PM PDT
I don''t think much of Hillary''s foreign policy experience. I mean, she makes a corkscrew landing in Bosnia, dodging sniper fire all the way. Then when she lands, she has to run into a hanger to avoid being shot. And the only backup team she had was her then 12-year-old daughter, a guitar player and a comedian. What happened to the sax player.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 6:52 PM PDT
The headline should have read:

"Charles B. Rangel Throws Hillary Under The Bus"

Posted by rushlimpdrug at 06:49 PM : Jun 06, 2008
___________________

That would have made one hell of a wreck.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 6:53 PM PDT
"Obama''s medical report was one page."

Thats like the story of my sexxxx life.

Posted by cockapoo8 at 06:47 PM : Jun 06, 2008
------------------

Don''t be a show-off.
Reply to this comment
by rushlimpdrug June 6, 2008 6:57 PM PDT

It is after all a Democratic political machine
that "elects" a presidential nominee.

It is NOT the Democratic voters that decide on a
nominee.

Too bad.

We all lose.

Public servants hold public office.

They are not royalty.

Yet the press and sooo many people
think of them as royalty to make
decisions for the subjects and
peasants.

Good luck to us all.

Reply to this comment
by lorinkundert June 6, 2008 7:01 PM PDT
The Party process here in the US is no different than the process the Communist Party uses to put candidates on the ballot, the voters come in second to the agenda the party sets, and in the end it''s the voter that once again get in the behind.
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2004 June 6, 2008 7:02 PM PDT
SgtRDS-E4 growled
base it on observation, both mine and my wife''''s who is a professional psychiatric RN and who''''s job it is to evaluate people to decide if they need to be hospitalized because of mental illness.
-----------
So McCain is a doddering old fool. REAGAN was a dollering old fool.

AND HE TURNED OUT TO BE THE BEST PRESIDENT IN A GENERATION.

Maybe doddering old fools MAKE THE BEST PRESIDENTS. Maybe it''s because the don''t feel like an invincible young man who can make all his own decisions - they have to find ADVISERS WHO ACTUALLY KNOW SOMETHING.

Or maybe it''s because they don''t have the energy to unzip their pants in the Oval Office...
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2004 June 6, 2008 7:04 PM PDT
rushlimpdrug protested
"Charles B. Rangel Throws Hillary Under The Bus"
-----------
More like "Rangel takes Hillary TO SCHOOL"

Reply to this comment
by sgtrds-e4 June 6, 2008 7:09 PM PDT
So McCain is a doddering old fool. REAGAN was a dollering old fool.

AND HE TURNED OUT TO BE THE BEST PRESIDENT IN A GENERATION.

Posted by txgrouch2004 at 07:02 PM : Jun 06, 2008

ROTFLMFAO!!!! Reagan was the 2nf worst president in modern times! Only the moron in the White House right now is worse then he was! He scre*wed the economy over, ran up massive debt, gave tax cuts to the rich, made illegal weapons sales to the Iranians while providing WMD chemicals weapons ingredients to Iraq. He should have died in prison!
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2004 June 6, 2008 7:09 PM PDT
pepperwood2 wrote
On Wednesday, Clinton was asking supporters to wait - it was unclear for what - and to give her time to gather her thoughts. A Sad Scenario but you got the picture.
------------
Good point.

But that''s the Clintons. They have to break ALL THE RULES.

Even the rule that a defeated politician WITH CLASS will concede BEFORE SUNRISE.

Al Gore could argue that the vote was so close, he was entitle to demand a recount.

HILLARY HAS NOT DEMANDED A RECOUNT. She is just acting like a prima donna who demands to hog the spotlight for JUST ONE MORE WEEK now, even though THE DANCE HAS ENDED.
Reply to this comment
by rushlimpdrug June 6, 2008 7:10 PM PDT

More like "Rangel takes Hillary TO SCHOOL"
Posted by txgrouch2004 at 07:04 PM

And what school would that be?
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2004 June 6, 2008 7:14 PM PDT
SgtRDS-E4 drooled
Reagan was the 2nf worst president in modern times! Only the moron in the White House right now is worse then he was! He scre*wed the economy over, ran up massive debt, gave tax cuts to the rich, made illegal weapons sales to the Iranians while providing WMD chemicals weapons ingredients to Iraq. He should have died in prison!
-------------
Yah, I heard you armed services guys are heavy drinkers.

Well, if you had been SOBER during the 1980''s, here''s what you''d remember INSTEAD of your booze-induced psychotic delusions:

THE RETURN of the U.S. hostages in Iran
THE END of double-digit inflation
THE END of double-digit interest rates
THE FALL of oil prices
THE FALL in unemployment

WE ACTUALLY RETURNED TO PROSPERITY DURING THE REAGAN YEARS.

That''s why, when he ran for re-election, he asked "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"

And the answer was an overwhelming YES! Which is why he was the FIRST PRESIDENT TO BE RE-ELECTED SINCE NIXON.

OK, you can crawl back into your bottle now..
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2004 June 6, 2008 7:15 PM PDT
rushlimpdrug struggled to focus
And what school would that be?

----------------
PUT DOWN THE DOOBIE AND FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF.

Pothead.
Reply to this comment
by rushlimpdrug June 6, 2008 7:17 PM PDT

It is interesting that Hillary
seems to have ended her run for
office due to pressure from
POLITICIANS rather than by
the voters.

Voters are becoming more of an
afterthought on many issues.
Reply to this comment
by rushlimpdrug June 6, 2008 7:19 PM PDT

PUT DOWN THE DOOBIE AND FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF.
Pothead.
Posted by txgrouch2004 at 07:15 PM

This is why I like obama supporters.
They are not to be judged, yet can
be totally prejudiced.

Go figure.
Reply to this comment
by juliemd June 6, 2008 7:32 PM PDT
Any of you wise guys ever think she maybe is thinking of running as an independent. This two-party, my way or the highway mentality might work for simple-minded folks, but it really doesn''t exhibit the will and desire of the people...18 million of them, anyway....(no offence you Obama supporters, before you freak out...)
Reply to this comment
by txgrouch2004 June 6, 2008 7:37 PM PDT
rushlimpdrug slurred
This is why I like obama supporters.
----------------
I''ll tell you what, I''m gonna STOP being an Obama supporter if he picks Hillary to be his running mate.

NO WAY am I going to support even the slightest chance of that BABY BOOMER becoming President.

Hillary thinks this election is all about her (then she lies and says it''s not about her, how typical - which only PROVES that it''s about her, because the truth is the opposite of whatever Hillary says out loud).

This is about the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. And the PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN.

In the words of Democrats the world over, the outcome SPEAKS FOR ITSELF.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 7:38 PM PDT
If Reagan has been any worse, they would have named him Bush - either one they both brought us war. Reagan''s big war was the invasion of the tiny island of Grenada. They really posed a threat to the US; both of their soldiers could have invaded us when they put down their rum and mango drinks.
Reply to this comment
by hwy1702 June 6, 2008 7:38 PM PDT
Senator McCain is a fine candidate in my opinion, what facts to you base on the idea he is senile?
Posted by easeltine at 06:37 PM : Jun 06, 2008

I base it on observation, both mine and my wife''''s who is a professional psychiatric RN and who''''s job it is to evaluate people to decide if they need to be hospitalized because of mental illness.
Posted by SgtRDS-E4


SgtRDS-E4%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026...You and your wife are full of it. Both of you need to see a proctologist so your heads can be examined.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 7:39 PM PDT
I''ll tell you what, I''''m gonna STOP being an Obama supporter if he picks Hillary to be his running mate.

Posted by txgrouch2004 at 07:37 PM : Jun 06, 2000
_________________

It''ll never happen, he didn''t win the nomination by being stupid.
Reply to this comment
by rufisgufis June 6, 2008 7:43 PM PDT
Who''s gonna be responsible for carting around McCain''s sack of meds? and his depends, and who''s gonna bring his little "Rascal" around so he can scoot around the White House?
Reply to this comment
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