WASHINGTON, May 28, 2008
Lawyers: Fla., Mich. Can't Be Fully Seated
Democratic Party Lawyers Issue Memo Saying Two States Must Lose At Least Half Of Delegates
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(CBS/iStockphoto)
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Democratic National Committee rules require that the two states lose at least half of their convention delegates for holding elections too early, the party's legal experts wrote in a 38-page memo.
The memo was sent late Tuesday to the 30 members of the party's Rules and Bylaws Committee, which plans to meet Saturday at a Washington hotel. The committee is considering ways to include the two important general election battlegrounds at the nominating convention in August, and the staff analysis says seating half the delegates is "as far as it legally can" go.
Saturday's meeting is expected to draw a large crowd, with Clinton supporters among those encouraging a protest outside demanding that all the states' delegates be seated. Proponents of full reseating have mailed committee members Florida oranges and pairs of shoes to get their attention.
DNC officials are concerned about a potentially large turnout at the "Count Every Vote" rally outside the event and have asked the hotel staff to increase security to keep everyone safe. The DNC says the roughly 500 seats available to the public inside were taken within three or four minutes of becoming available online Tuesday.
The DNC analysis does not make recommendations for how the Rules and Bylaws Committee should vote, but gives context from the party's charter and bylaws for the committee to consider.
The analysis said there are two options to include half the delegations - either allow half the number of delegates from each state into the convention or allow the full delegations to attend, but give them each half a vote. "The rule does not actually specify whether the reduction is to be accomplished on the basis of delegate positions or delegate votes," the analysis said, giving committee members some justification for sending the entire delegations with half-votes as some leaders in the states want.
The analysis also underscores a prickly problem: If the Rules and Bylaws Committee decides to restore any of the states' delegates, there is not a simple way to divide them between Clinton and Barack Obama.
That's especially true in Michigan, where Obama had his name pulled from the ballot. He didn't have the option of removing his name in Florida, but all the candidates signed a pledge not to campaign in either state.
Clinton won the majority of the vote in Florida and Michigan and has been arguing that the delegates should be fully restored according to the results of the January primaries. But even if they were, it would not be enough for her to overtake Obama's delegate lead.
As it becomes clear that Obama likely will win the nomination, he has been working to win over voters in the two states with visits in recent days. He plans to return to Michigan on Monday.
The DNC staff analysis argues that the Rules and Bylaws Committee was fully within its rights to strip all 368 delegates from the two states when they scheduled primaries in January. Party rules said their nominating contests could be no earlier than Feb. 5. Michigan voted on Jan. 15, Florida on Jan. 29.
The analysis also said there is an option to restore 100 percent of the delegates - by a recommendation of the Credentials Committee that meets later this summer. However, that would mean a final decision would not be made until the first day of the convention in Denver since Credentials Committee decisions have to be approved by the full convention as it convenes - risking a floor fight.
Alice Huffman, a member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee from California who is supporting Clinton, said she has been barraged with e-mails in the past few weeks. She said the senders include Floridians who are upset that they are being disenfranchised, and she has started printing out the messages so she'll have a record to explain her decision.
"This is a really, really significant issue to women. Obviously it's a significant item to people of color too. So I'm just preparing myself as best I can," said Huffman, president of the California NAACP.
The shoe shipments are being organized by WalkAMileInOurShoes.org and the orange idea was promoted by a group called Florida Demands Representation, which plans to bus Floridians to Saturday's rally outside the meeting. Blaine Whitford, a volunteer helping organize the effort, said they are unaligned with any candidate.
Susie Buell, one of Clinton's top fundraisers, has formed a political action committee encouraging women to support full seating of the delegates. The WomenCountPAC has taken out ads in USA Today and The New York Times promoting attendance at the rally.
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Add a Comment See all 221 Comments
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Q:Just how stupid does one have to be to let lawyers decide an election?
A:As stupid as the current Dem "leadership": "Impeachment-is-off-the-table" Pelosi, "Government-land-deals-for-personal-profit" Reid and "Yee Haw" Dean, along an assortment of other reprobates.
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- Why are we allowing a self-important anarchist to disrupt our entire electoral process?? -- Someone please explain this to me. -- I fail to understand the logic here.
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- Where does the idea of actions having consequences come in? Sure would like to see a little news about the arrogance of the FL and MI state Democratic committees. Who wants them now? OR how about the agreement between the candidates and the DNC about NOT campaigning. Wasn''t there ONE candidate that campaigned anyway while the others abided by their agreement?
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- Well as sad as it is they will hand the election to McCain in their desire to screw the Lady Mrs. Clinton. She needs to look to a higher court. We democrats will not vote for a muslim and I mean will not vote I will either skip the president or vote for McCain and then I might even vote for some of the Republicans out of spite. The best of think to all Frank Bowers of Austin,TX and lake austin.
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- She has painted herself into a corner,and you are right there with her.The only option that is a "win situation" for her is to support Obama.
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Posted by jesterbelle at 10:44 AM : May 29, 2008
Nahhhhhhh, her win is to keep fighting for the nomination! Any attempts to threaten her and her career, and bully her out, will assure a McCain presidency and DNC damned well knows it!
You people just keep up your bigoted old goat wet dreams! - Reply to this comment
- RowdyWicca! Hi - How''''s it going? How''''s my little McCain 527 plant doing today? Still waiting for ONE SINGLE example of Obama''''s "hate-filled, racist marketing machine" that you were whining about with all of your typical faux indignation. You can''''t find one example? That''''s pathetic. That makes you a bona fide liar. Keep dreaming. This race will be over in 6 days, then on to the general election which is going to be a hoot. ;)
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Posted by EddyNewHope at 12:36 PM : May 29, 2008
You still waiting, Eddy? lol
Seems like the ''Sentor from Punjab'' is still out there campaigning, Eddy!
Seems like when the electorate in the last three and half primaries have told Obama and his race baiting intimidation game to get on his camel and ride off!
Seems like they got pissed and their ''claws came out''!
You got that Eddy? - Reply to this comment
- Rowdy, do your keepers know that you are on the loose again? See that nice young man in the white jacket? He''''s got something special, just for you! It''''s your meds girl and you better get back on them.
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Posted by aldon61 at 01:28 PM : May 29, 2008
Nahhhhh, they''re headed your way right now...get your arm out ready for the injections. It''s innoculation against bigoted old goatism before they throw you back out in the barn where you belong! - Reply to this comment
- Rowdy, do your keepers know that you are on the loose again? See that nice young man in the white jacket? He''s got something special, just for you! It''s your meds girl and you better get back on them.
- Reply to this comment
- RowdyWicca! Hi - How''s it going? How''s my little McCain 527 plant doing today? Still waiting for ONE SINGLE example of Obama''s "hate-filled, racist marketing machine" that you were whining about with all of your typical faux indignation. You can''t find one example? That''s pathetic. That makes you a bona fide liar. Keep dreaming. This race will be over in 6 days, then on to the general election which is going to be a hoot. ;)
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- Actually, it''''s not a crock either! The DNC rules committee can re-examine their sanctions and seat every delegate in both those states. They have full authority! And yes, most have already said they''''ll be seated at convention.
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Posted by RowdyWicca at 09:58 AM : May 29, 2008
Right,as if that''s going to happen.The motive for penalizing FL.and MI.was to put an end to the hopscotching primaries.I''m sure the DNC is going to give a green light to the other states to move their primaries forward by seating all of the delegates.You are so unrealistic in your expectations where people are concerned.I suggest you take a look at some of the news on the internet about how Obamas'' supporters are getting fed up,and are planning to be just as vindictive towards Hillary as you towards Obama.The difference?She will be seen as stealing the nomination,and will take the blame for her loss.Thanks to Hillary staying in as long as she has,you are shafted any way you turn.She has painted herself into a corner,and you are right there with her.The only option that is a "win situation" for her is to support Obama. - Reply to this comment
- Your missing the point people. Hillary signed on and agreed and supported the DNC ruling to strip these states of their delegates for breaking the rules. She did not care. It''''s a legal binding contract which cannot be broken legally even if the candidates agree, it''''s NOT their call. As the article says, only one half of the delegates can be legally restored. This whole PAC march thing is a useless crock, and a waste of time.
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Posted by tru_america1 at 09:17 AM : May 29, 2008
Actually, it''s not a crock either! The DNC rules committee can re-examine their sanctions and seat every delegate in both those states. They have full authority! And yes, most have already said they''ll be seated at convention. - Reply to this comment
- Real Men Love Strong Women.
Hillary ALL the way to the Convention!!!! :-)
Say NO to "O" Cult, Vote NO to Satanic Obama!!! - Reply to this comment
- These lawyers forgot to mention that Obama broke the "rules" to showing commercial ADs 1 week before Florida Primary. And he CHOSE to leave MI state behind.
So who cares what they think? We will march towards the COVENTION, and fight on the floor.
DEM party has ALWAYS made stupid mistake by nominating the Wrong guy. That''s why they only won 3 out 10 general elections in the PAST 40 years.
Now they want to lose again by nominating Obama. - Reply to this comment
- Your missing the point people. Hillary signed on and agreed and supported the DNC ruling to strip these states of their delegates for breaking the rules. She did not care. It''''s a legal binding contract which cannot be broken legally even if the candidates agree, it''''s NOT their call. As the article says, only one half of the delegates can be legally restored. This whole PAC march thing is a useless crock, and a waste of time.
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Posted by tru_america1 at 09:17 AM : May 29, 2008
And yes, she did care. Florida and Michigan started fighting the battle to seat their delegates in December, and HIllary was supporting them. In December, before anybody had even cast a vote! - Reply to this comment
- Your missing the point people. Hillary signed on and agreed and supported the DNC ruling to strip these states of their delegat
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Posted by tru_america1 at 09:17 AM : May 29, 2008
No, actually, she only signed pledged agreements with the chairman of four states, just like they all did. Nobody signed a pledge with Florida and Michigan. - Reply to this comment
- "Clinton won the majority of the vote in Florida and Michigan and has been arguing that the delegates should be fully restored..."
At first glance, I thought: She is trying to skirt the rules of her own party, which sounds a lot like the status quo. But then, it isn''t her fault that the states'' Dem parties moved the dates around. So what happened? It sounds like the Dem party in these states screwed themselves. Maybe instead of trying to apply a halfsies formula, they should just annul the votes altogether. Then the "disenfranchised" voters can take it up with the party in their own state instead of insisting on being an exception to their own rules. - Reply to this comment
- Oh for heavens sake, Obama and Clinton are both lawyers. They could waive application of the technical DNC rules and settle all the legal matters with with one simple document ... That is, if they both ACTUALLY WANTED to count all the delegates.
The DNC just doesn''t want Obama to sue it. Obama could still fix all of this by agreeing to count all the votes.
Also, the DNC Committe must do what is best for the party so the Democrats do not lose in November.
If Barack doesn''t like it he can sue them. That does not mean he will win the lawsuit, but so What???
Who wants a candidate who gets the nomination by holding the threat of a lawsuit over the DNC anyway????? - Reply to this comment
- Hillary just like her hustand is a cheater.
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- Florida and Michigan were told before they made the decision that holding the primary too early would violate the rules, and that there would be sanctions.
Seeking a couple days'' totally valueless publicity, they did so anyway, and now everyone is whining that they got punished for doing what they were advised not to do.
What are rules, if they are violated without consequence? Nothing but BS. - Reply to this comment
- Who is this Hillary chick anyways. Didn''t Bill Cheat on her or something......
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