New Scrutiny For "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

Federal Appeals Court Rejects Automatic Dismissal Of Openly Gay Service Members

(AP)  The military cannot automatically discharge people because they're gay, a federal appeals court ruled Wednesday in the case of a decorated flight nurse who sued the Air Force over her dismissal.

The three judges from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals did not strike down the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. But they reinstated Maj. Margaret Witt's lawsuit, saying the Air Force must prove that her dismissal furthered the military's goals of troop readiness and unit cohesion.

The "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue, don't harass" policy prohibits the military from asking about the sexual orientation of service members but requires discharge of those who acknowledge being gay or engaging in homosexual activity.

Wednesday's ruling led opponents of the policy to declare its days numbered. It is also the first appeals court ruling in the country that evaluated the policy through the lens of a 2003 Supreme Court decision that struck down a Texas ban on sodomy as an unconstitutional intrusion on privacy.

When gay service members have sued over their dismissals, courts historically have accepted the military's argument that having gays in the service is generally bad for morale and can lead to sexual tension.

But the Supreme Court's opinion in the Texas case changed the legal landscape, the judges said, and requires more scrutiny over whether "don't ask, don't tell" is constitutional as applied in individual cases.

Under Wednesday's ruling, military officials "need to prove that having this particular gay person in the unit really hurts morale, and the only way to improve morale is to discharge this person," said Aaron Caplan, a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union of Washington state who worked on the case.

Witt, a flight nurse based at McChord Air Force Base near Tacoma, was suspended without pay in 2004 after the Air Force received a tip that she had been in a long-term relationship with a civilian woman. Witt was honorably discharged in October 2007 after having put in 18 years - two short of what she needed to receive retirement benefits.

She sued the Air Force in 2006, but U.S. District Judge Ronald B. Leighton dismissed her claims, saying the Supreme Court's ruling in Lawrence v. Texas did not change the legality of "don't ask, don't tell."

The appeals court judges disagreed.

"When the government attempts to intrude upon the personal and private lives of homosexuals, the government must advance an important governmental interest ... and the intrusion must be necessary to further that interest," wrote Judge Ronald M. Gould.

One of the judges, William C. Canby Jr., issued a partial dissent, saying that the ruling didn't go far enough. He argued that the Air Force should have to show that the policy itself "is necessary to serve a compelling governmental interest and that it sweeps no more broadly than necessary."

Gay service members who are discharged can sue in federal court, and if the military doesn't prove it had a good reason for the dismissal, the cases will go forward, Caplan said.

Another attorney for Witt, James Lobsenz, hailed the ruling as the beginning of the end for "don't ask, don't tell."

"If the various branches of the Armed Forces have to start proving each application of the policy makes sense, then it's not going to be only Maj. Witt who's going to win," Lobsenz said. "Eventually, they're going to say, 'This is dumb. ... It's time to scrap the policy."'

An Air Force spokeswoman said she had no comment on the decision and directed inquiries to the Defense Department.

Lt. Col. Todd Vician, a Defense spokesman, said he did not know specifics of the case and could not comment beyond noting that "the DOD policy simply enacts the law as set forth by Congress."

Witt joined the Air Force in 1987 and switched from active duty to the reserves in 1995. She cared for injured patients on military flights and in operating rooms. She was promoted to major in 1999, and she deployed to Oman in 2003 in support of the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

A citation from President Bush that year said, "Her airmanship and courage directly contributed to the successful accomplishment of important missions under extremely hazardous conditions."

Her suspension and discharge came during a shortage of flight nurses and outraged many of her colleagues - one of whom, a sergeant, retired in protest.

"I am thrilled by the court's recognition that I can't be discharged without proving that I was harmful to morale," Witt said in a statement. "I am proud of my career and want to continue doing my job. Wounded people never asked me about my sexual orientation. They were just glad to see me there."

[dmhphils]

The funny thing about boiling a frog to death is they never know what happened.....in the end....they are just dead.

[neo267-2009]

It would be a lot more effective - and better for the military - to get rid of all the homophobes.

[slim1h2o]

courts historically have accepted the military''s argument that having *** in the service is generally bad for morale and can lead to sexual tension.
______________________________________________________
That''s one the most ignorant statements I''ve heard yet. If the military thought that a G/ay guy looking at straight guy could cause sexual tension, then what were thinking of when they allowed women to join the military?

Did they NOT think THAT might cause sexual tension? With that kind of thinking, no wonder we can''t win wars,,and too,,is the reason this country is in the shape we are in. Sheez!!

[tmn]

What a concept - judging service members on their skills as soldiers not their orientation.

[irliberal]

"I am proud of my career and want to continue doing my job. Wounded people never asked me about my sexual orientation. They were just glad to see me there.
Maj. Margaret Witt"

Yep, and anyone who has a problem with her sexual orientation which has NOTHING to do with her job has a serious malfunction.

[shanev137]

I think some people should be fired from their jobs for how much alcohol they drink at home.

[samrensho]

Ah Oh, Georgie and his Christo-fascists ain''t a gonna like that one little bit. Heaven forbid we should ever have equality and reason. Hound them to death like the Brits did to Alan Turing - NOT!!!!

[joe1022joe]

The 9th Circuit court of Appeals is the most overturned circuit in the US. As a group, it is fair to say they reflect the morals and social views of the San Francisco/Marin County/Manhattan crowd. The Supreme Court always grants the government and the US military wide latitude in deciding military policies. This is another 9th Circuit case which will be overturned by the Supremes.

[demslie]

Posted by MCVet at 07:31 AM......Reread your posts. You have no shame. You must first have morality. Then you can be embarrassed.

Posted by maxify55

McVet, like all the other Angry Democrats here, react to this "Story" with the usual sympathy for the Devil. Naturally any subject that gets Democrats screaming, like the military, will be published by CBS (Communist Broadcast System). And why is this "OLD Story" about a Reservist so important? Any Military person can do their job without broadcasting to world their Sexuall Orientation. The Military is not here to support the Democrats Sexuall Agenda, and that is the reason she came out. Not to Serve the Country but to serve her Anointed Political Party and to push and Democrat Left Wing Agenda with Legal Action. "The three judges from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals did not strike down the military''s "don''t ask, don''t tell" policy. But they reinstated Maj. Margaret Witt''s lawsuit...." This "Story" involves ***, Anti-War Anti-Military Protest Groups and The Democrats Trial Lawyers Association, Three of the most Financially Influential groups of Liberal Crazies that own the Left Wing of the Democrat Party and are the largest CASH contributors to the DNC. And O''Bama is speaking on these issue today. This story was written and edited by the DNC for the Benefit of Democrat Campaigns. And Anti American Democrat Idiots like McVet scream their hate and anger right on cue.

[carjenbe]

Attempts have been made to split the 9th circuit court in two pieces, but congress, especially Ted,
Obama,Hillary and the rest of the Social Democrats can''t accept the old 9th becoming the 69th district. Courts and sexual orientation need to stay in the closet,

[libh8er]

Of course...the 9th circus. Gaydom is completely incompatable with military service (except maybe for some specialties in healthcare.) Other than that, they need to be shown the door.

[jjp735i]

Maj. Witt served for 18 years. She saved how many lives during her service? I wonder if those soliders she saved would have rather died then let a gay woman work on them? I doubt very few.

What happened to "support our troops" the Republican Nazi Party and hate filled Religious Right have been shouting for the past seven years? Maj. Witt served and served well. She earned respect for her service and she should have the support of all of us.

Why is it that the Republican Right bigots chant "support our troops" on one hand and want to destory a soldier on the other? They pick and choose what they want from the Bible as if they are exempt from the parts they do not think should apply to them. False Preachers.

Our education system has been failing for years and it shows big time right now.

[libh8er]

''Heaven forbid we should ever have equality and reason.''

Go try your social engineering on someone else''s military. The military is not about ''equality''.

[sharncedar]

This is the second provocative action by a court to shove these offensive, worthless, twisted *** in the face of the electorate - with an election coming up. Is this the ghost of Karl Rove? The "hillary people" ie the Catholic, hateful, bigot crowd was probably not going to turn ouit much for McCain, but they WILL turn out to attack ***. Perhaps this is the strategy to help McCain.

For example, if someone put a measure on the ballot to have anyone participating in a "gay marriage" fined all of their money and property and humiliatef ror three days inthe public stocks, I would vote for that proposition, having voted for that proposition, I''m much more likely to then choose McCain over Obama, because I''m in an angry, hostile mood at that point. That''s how George Bush got elected, classic Rovian strategy. Are these courts helping McCain, or are they just so gay and gay loving that they have to show disrespect for first marriage and now the military?

[ranger1948]

casper117
i thought you were a happily married mixed race couple ? Shame on you. Dos your marriage partner know yiou are stepping out ?

[ranger1948]

joe1022joe
I was taugh that in a criminal justice class in college.

[afmca]

Don''t Ask - Don''t Tell is just another stupid response to christian evangelical bigotry. I say a better way of handling this issue is Don''t Ask - Don''t Care. We are losing important members of the military because of ignorance and intolerance. We can''t communicate within Iraq because of the lack of linguists because many were g*a*y and were dismissed from service. We need to grow up in America and get over the cretins that live to hate and feel better about their worthless lives by bashing others. Military service, marriage, raising children, and being a part of society - G*a*y*s are living it everyday and doing it well.

[flagship-usa]

..."after the Air Force received a tip..."
This is a tool used by the hetero''s, for reasons we all understand. This policy needs to be put in the trash receptacle. This is shameful - a veteran of 18 yrs, could have hisher career ended by some sick-o. I would first investigate the person giving the tip.

[holli7901]

Ok, can people stop being retarded. How many of you screaming your rants and raves have actually been to a combat zone? When IED''s blew up next to our truks not a *** person in the convoy cared if the person pulling you out was gay. Nor did anyone say, "Oh, you''re gay, please let me burn to death!" I am a practicing CATHOLIC and I do believe that homosexuality is a sin against GOD. However, GOD says to hate the sin and love the sinner. THey have to answer for their life, I don''t. I have friends that are gay and we never talk about it. They know I don''t agree with it but I am not missing out on great friends b/c of who they chose to date. The Maj. is right, noone in Iraq cares about orientation when bombs, mortars and bullets start flying! SO yes, it is time for America to grow up!

[libh8erh8er]

Go try your social engineering on someone else''''s military. The military is not about ''''equality''''.

And the neo-cons also think that this country is not about "equality," but about suppressing anyone that is different. Sieg, heil, LibH8er!

[libh8er]

This act of perversion is not tolerated anywhere in the world but Europe and never will be.
Posted by SharnCedar at 08:15 AM : May 22, 2008

The Israeli military used to let g a ys in....the used them for unexploded ordinence disposal and clearing mine fields. That''s a good job for them. LOL

[olebd]

I hate to think what the uniforms will look like in the future once the homos take command. Pink feathers don''t look good on anybody!

[skyhawk761]

For example, if someone put a measure on the ballot to have anyone participating in a "gay marriage" fined all of their money and property and humiliatef ror three days inthe public stocks, I would vote for that proposition

Posted by SharnCedar at 08:10 AM : May 22, 2008


I would vote for that also as long as we also put in there the same for all the "straight" couples who get divorced. It is amazing how you supposed Christians ignore the part of the Bible that states, " He who is without sin may cast the first stone." Or how about judge least ye be judged? You all are a bunch of hypocrites.

[dinkydog1]

Thousands dead in needless war, illegal torture, tours of duty without end, cut benifits... and the military is worried about this. What a silly world we live in.

[libh8erh8er]

LibH8er writes:

The Israeli military used to let g a ys in....the used them for unexploded ordinence disposal and clearing mine fields. That''''s a good job for them. LOL

The Israeli military used to be respected, too. I believe that our dear, self-appointed wit LibH8er needs to get off his Rush Limbaugh-certified oxycontin and join the real world where people actually want to get along with others -- instead of living in his own little world of self-idolization. The problem is that when you think you''re right about everything, you suddenly realize that you don''t know very much.

Kisses to you from the boys in the Pentagon!

[mcvet]

What difference does it make WHO this woman sleeps with at night? She is a professional in a field that is greatly needed right now. I seriously doubt that ANY service member who''s life has been saved by this lady really care''s so why should YOU? When we FINALLY get back to the rule my Pop taught me... Clean behind YOUR own Back Door before you start looking at someone else''s. IF YOU do that you will find PLENTY of work to be done and you will NOT bother others. IF it can NOT be shown by the Airforce, who has very questionable ties to the Religious Reich, that this lady''s *** life interfered with her ability to do her job she should be reinstated. Sieg Heil and Amen

[waterandsand]

This has more to do with the tention it creates within a unit. You have to understand when you have a bunch of straight males in a group there usually gonna have some sort of negative reaction with a homosexual thats also in that group. I personally dont care and but if the US Military doesnt want *** then they should have the right.

[mcvet]

The Maj. is right, noone in Iraq cares about orientation when bombs, mortars and bullets start flying! SO yes, it is time for America to grow up!


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Posted by Holli7901 at 08:37 AM : May 22, 2008
+ report abuse

Couldn''t have said it better!! Thanks!!

[antoniof123]

What a concept - judging service members on their skills as soldiers not their orientation.

Posted by tmn123 at 05:54 AM : May 22, 2008

Oh no the Republicans can''t do that because they would lose all appointed members of everything they are incompent.

[tootoo68]

Unlike most of you, I have been in a fox hole with real men watching my back. They watched my back, not my ***.

[flagship-usa]

Posted by LibH8er at 08:09 AM : Why not?
H&H''s go through the same boot camp training - Without prejudice...etc.

[mcvet]

The Israeli military used to let g a ys in....the used them for unexploded ordinence disposal and clearing mine fields. That''''s a good job for them. LOL


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Posted by LibH8er at 08:40 AM : May 22, 2008
+ report abuse

I''ve often wondered where creatures like this come from?? What slime did they emerge from? They do NOT care that this woman was a top flight Nurse. They do NOT care that she, in no way attempted to force others to agree with her views on ***. They do not care about anything but their HATE. THEY want to dictate who she lives with, works with, and all other functions of life. THE question ALL of you must ask is the lesson learned by the German People when fascist started taking over their lives... WHO will be next? When they have satisfied their hatred for Homosexuals, will YOU be the next group they focus on. You see Fascist have NO solutions to problems and have NO use for those who do not agree with them so WILL YOU be the focus of the Pat Robertson Crowd AFTER they have forced these people underground? They MOST certainly WILL find a group that''s for sure... got to keep that money coming in from the feeble minded. Sieg Heil and Amen

[flagship-usa]

I''m amazed by how much the hetero''s know about ****-s.ex. Although: they seam to know very little about the person.

[skyhawk761]

MCVet, you and I don''t even have to post to show just how ignorant these neocons are, they are doing fine all by themselves. The old saying goes, it''s better to let people think you are ignorant than to open your mouth and prove them right!

[hhroams]

This will not stand. The US military is not going to be used as a pickup operation and gay country club for the perverted filth of the world. No strong country tolerates these freaks, not China, not India, not the Arab countries. This act of perversion is not tolerated anywhere in the world but Europe and never will be. Take the deal you got, idiots, or the deal changes, not better, but worse. posted by sharncedar.


Why not, the military is now used by hetrosexuals for rape victims, *** clubs etc, sexual harrassment places for officers to use their rank to take advantage of low ranking females enlisted/officers
but I guess that is ok because it is "normal"

[gopsoccermom]

I am so happy. Now our holy crusaders shall start winning battles because God will now be helping them. Before he withheld his aid due to the openly gay service people.

[gurusavant]

lesbains are the greatest. gOOOO lesbians!!

[libh8er]

What slime did they emerge from? Posted by MCVet at 09:01 AM : May 22, 2008

A former DEMOCRAT whose eyes were opened by the lies of libs and democrats. What''s your excuse?

[waterandsand]

Hey Sweetpea its not ignorance, its personal opinion and choice. I think you have every right to do what you want with a partner of the opp sexx, i just personally dont think its right and i dont like it but dont call me ignorant.

[gopsoccermom]

Can we get those women back into being baby machines and livning in the kitchen? God will be more pleased then.

[cattlekate]

I cannot imagine what it would be like to be so encumbered with hatred against homosexuals.

That hatred could possibly be used by the Powerful Elite to blind people from seeing what is going on regarding other issues.

Oh wait, that''s what the GOP does.

[flagship-usa]

re: waterandsand at 09:03 AM :

Hate is a powerful tool. It is also considered a form of mental illness. Hate limits our ability to reason, and act rationally.

Odd how America is in a war with factions that are hate driven, and we Americans are trying to put a end to it.

Odd how America is trying to put a end to this hate, and allow it to fester here at home?

[waterandsand]

If chatting on a blog is encumbering then you must not get out much.

[waterandsand]

re: waterandsand at 09:03 AM :

Hate is a powerful tool. It is also considered a form of mental illness. Hate limits our ability to reason, and act rationally.

Odd how America is in a war with factions that are hate driven, and we Americans are trying to put a end to it.

Odd how America is trying to put a end to this hate, and allow it to fester here at home?


Maybe i shouldnt use the word hate, i dont really hate people i just dislike it. I live in midtown of houston in pretty much the gay district. I didnt learn this dislike through stereotypes and ignorance, ive learned it through exp.

[flagship-usa]

Posted by MyOpinion1 at 09:11 AM :
...and the Hetero''s are also doing it.

[sjw1253]

I am happy whenever any form of discrimination that is supported by our laws and constitution is struck down.

The "Equality" issue is very important - and as long as people are not harming others - they deserve the same rights as everyone else.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a hypocrite and needs to objectively re-evaluate their discriminatory thoughts. I know it is hard for many of us to put ourselves in the other persons'' positions - especially when we feel it is not "natural" - but the fact is that homosexuality has been practiced for centuries...

There clealy is a "reason" for people to have different affinities than "the majority"... A point when majority should not win an argument...

The most important thing is to remember the basis for our country and demoncracy and to remember that no matter what - we have to learn to hate - HATE...

Anything that infringes on another person''s freedom (again as long as they are not hurting anyone else - which in this case involves consenting adults and not children)...

[sjw1253]

The saddest thing is when a person (whether a child in school or adult) is trying to live their life by others'' standards and denying their "natural feelings" in order to conform. The saddest part is when others "think" that they are "gay" and talk about and discriminate against them even though they are trying to live a normal life.

What is even worse is when someone is heterosexual and people think they are gay or want to harm them for their own personal gain - and start rumors in order to create discrimination against them (sort of like the old "witch hunts"...

I am very glad that these judges were able to evaluate the case objectively and without thinking of their own personal feelings and beliefs(as they are supposed to).

This is what helps to create a world of peace and love and helps to make the laws truly fair for one and all.

[flagship-usa]

MyOpinion1 at 09:11 AM :it''''s NOT NORMAL.

I have know idea what ''normal'' is.

[demslie]

What difference does it make WHO this woman sleeps with at night? She is a professional in a field that is greatly needed right now. I seriously doubt that ANY service member who''''''''s life has been saved by this lady really care''''''''s so why should YOU? When we FINALLY get back to the rule my Pop taught me... Clean behind YOUR own Back Door before you start looking at someone else''''''''s. IF YOU do that you will find PLENTY of work to be done and you will NOT bother others. IF it can NOT be shown by the Airforce, who has very questionable ties to the Religious Reich, that this lady''''''''s *** life interfered with her ability to do her job she should be reinstated. Sieg Heil and Amen

Posted by MCVet at 08:54 AM : May 22, 2008

MCVet can always be depended on to make the Left Wing Liberal Point. The real point is, she decided to make an issue of her Sexuallllity, Not the Military. No one give a DAMNN what person or animal or major appliance a Democrat sleeps with. But, she announced it to the world and took it to court for the purpose of making an issue of it.

[slim1h2o]

There is no such thing as normal. Everyone is different.

No exceptions.