Polygamy Custody Hearings Reveal Errors

Officials: Number Of Underage Mothers Was Overreported, Hurting Widespread Abuse Claims

(AP)  Child welfare officials have said in the opening days of individual custody hearings for members of a polygamist sect that at least eight mothers once held in state custody as minors were actually adults. One is 27.

The disclosures, which have dribbled out in hearings held across five courtrooms, brings the number of underage mothers in state custody to 23, eroding statistics state officials have cited to bolster their claims of widespread abuse. Other reclassifications are likely to follow as judges sort out family relationships in custody hearings scheduled to last three weeks.

On Tuesday, two men excommunicated by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which runs the ranch where about 460 children now in foster care once lived, offered to serve as guardians for their children if the state deems their mothers unfit.

"If we can establish I'm not guilty of those things, why can't I have my children?" asked Arthur Barlow, 59, after driving from southern Utah to seek custody of five of his children, who lived at the Yearning For Zion ranch in Eldorado.

Barlow and Frank Johnson, another father seeking custody of his children, were excommunicated from the church about four years ago.

It was not clear how many other relatives have asked to be considered as alternatives to foster care. Child Protective Services typically looks for relatives in custody cases, and preference is usually given to a noncustodial parent if he or she can demonstrate a safe home.

Barlow testified he had never been to the YFZ Ranch, where all the children were removed last month and placed in foster care facilities around the state. The agency argued underage girls were being forced into marriages and sex, and that boys were being raised to be perpetrators.

Church members and the excommunicated fathers denied FLDS parents are abusive or endanger the children.

Barlow said he entered into a spiritual marriage 15 years ago with Esther Jessop Barlow, now 35, whom he has known since she was a child. He said she is a fit mother, but that if the state rules otherwise, he wants custody of the children he hadn't seen until recently.

Barlow, who has 12 other children with another woman, said he didn't fight for custody when he was forced from the church because he didn't want the children used as "pawns."

The FLDS children were removed en masse from the ranch during an April 3 raid that began after someone called a domestic abuse hot line claiming to be a pregnant abused teenage wife. Authorities are investigating whether the calls were a hoax.

The judges have not allowed much discussion of the validity of the decision to take the children, but they have focused on state-drafted "service plans" outlining how parents can get their children back. Parents have complained the plans are too vague.

Johnson moved from Utah to Abilene, Texas, to be closer to his six children, who haven't lived with him for more than four years. He noted that accusations and required services are all directed at church members.

"How does the service plan fit my particular needs?" he asked in court.

Child Protective Services spokesman Patrick Crimmins said the agency has asked FLDS parents to name relatives who could take the children, but all will have to be vetted before they could get custody.

FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said the 168 mothers in the case want their children but would consider relatives to be acceptable alternative guardians.

"Anything is more acceptable than foster care or non-relative adoption," he said.

Parker also reiterated the church's belief that the final number of underage mothers will be closer to five or six, though he acknowledged that some of the young mothers apparently were pregnant while younger than 17 - Texas' age of consent.

"We've always known there are one or two or three examples out there," Parker said. "What I've always denied is that there are (dozens) out there."

State plans call for CPS to try to reunite parents and children by April. The costs of the raid and the cases are expected to rise to $30 million in that time, and state lawmakers in Austin on Tuesday began looking at how to fund them.

The FLDS, which teaches that polygamy brings glorification in heaven, is a breakaway of the Mormon church, which renounced polygamy more than a century ago.

[acolton1]

*** you know the one lady in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The one with the UNI-Brow she is my favorite. She cant even spend 2 dollars on some tweazers and pluck that UNI-Brow. I love to see UNI-Brow on TV she is a major LEzzbeen.

[markcfl1]

The good people of Texas should be outraged that CPS has practiced such blatant disregard for the these women''s Constitution rights. Yet another example. CPS disregarded the birth certificates and driver''s licenses of adults (one of which was 27), instead classifying them as children. Reason: possibly to deny these women legal representation during interviews. Let''s see, so far, warrantless searches, excessive force, separation of all children from mothers, denial of legal representation, search by unfounded allegations, seizure of religious materials ...

[lochlan-2009]

These people are going to rake in the tax $$$$ when all their lawsuits against the state are done. How much tax dollars has been spent already on judges, attorney fees, court costs, police costs, foster care costs, etc., and after the lawsuits. Texas is going to get a nice bill for this screw up.

[barbaraf4]

"Right you are mark, only 23 girls were raped, maybe fewer. What gives Texas the right to protect children from rape?" Posted by dragonwagon5
~~~~~~~~~~~
How do you know the actually were raped? Has someone confessed? Have the 23 girls reported it?

[beehive21-2009]

The people of Texas should be very concerned as they watch The Constitution of the USA being raped, before the worlds eyes.The Texans pocket books are next.

[lochlan-2009]

"If you are under aged and pregnant or have children, you were a victim of statutory rape."

Not true, example, if the father was 12 and the girl pregnant was 15. And the legal age of consent is 17 in Texas, if you don''t like it, legislate to change it. Stick with the facts please. People like you are the reason these peoples constitutional rights are being violated and the rest of us are going to end up paying the bill. Texas really screwed this one up (big surprise), and that allows loop holes for defense attorneys to get any criminal activity to fall through the cracks.

We all want to see *** offenders put behind bars, in a constitutional and legal way.

[markcfl1]

dragonwagon5

Your comments are generally based on inacurrate facts and reports, are your opinion (which you still have a right to), and are embellished to the point of nausea. The courts will deal with the men, which you seem so fascinated with. Meanwhile, the innocent children and mothers remain separated under unraveling accusations.

[markcfl1]

Whatever

Maybe you might like to read this one if your stomach can bear it. Here''s what''s happening in Texas while CPS is busy with the FLDS.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5793707.html

[lochlan-2009]

At any rate, the state of Texas had no right to protect children they thought were in danger and no right to attempt to enforce the laws that were broken.


Posted by dragonwagon5

Well, maybe if you through your little hissy fit in the court room, you can get your way. You can try.

[lochlan-2009]

"I say the state of Texas should return these children to their mothers who were enabling these men to pratice poligamy, satutory rape and pedophilia."

And the ones that weren''t involved?

[markcfl1]

dragonwagon5

You''re right. Key words in your comment are "had" and "thought" not "are" and "know"

[papabc]

The state of Texas Flucked Up.

[cpaide]

Three charges:
1) Child abuse
2) Welfare Fraud
3) Tax Fraud
Get them; convict them; jail them.
Regards,
Posted by Nancy_Naive

sorry, dear, you can''t do that to illegal mexicans here in this country.

oh, were you talking about the mormans? then go right ahead.

[papabc]

Three charges:

1) Child abuse (only 23 underaged mothers...)
2) Welfare Fraud
3) Tax Fraud

Get them; convict them; jail them.

Regards, Posted by Nancy_Naive
------------------------------------------------------

In the name of Religious persecution you would do this? What about their Freedom Of Religion that they have be doing for 100 years?

[cpaide]

Three more charges:

1) Malicious Prosecution (social workers, county & state attorney and judge)
2) False Imprisonment (law enforcement)
3) Civil Rights Violations (all of the above)

Get them (the mormans) lawyers; sue them (texas attorneys, social workers, law enforcement & the judge); jail them (attorneys, law enforcement, social workers & the judge).

Regards,

[ajaxrose1]

It''s not right for the state to conduct a witch hunt, but it happens all the time. Most of the time there is NO evidence. It happens to hundreds of families everyday in every state under the pretense of "protecting" children. Sometimes that''s even the case, but not this time around. I think they were wrong to separate those kids from their mothers and the damage that will result from it will take years to undo, if it can be undone at all. I don''t agree with their religion or their way of life, but I think persecution is wrong all the way around and that''s all this is. So called "social workers" (in EVERY state) excel at it, and they don''t even need a reason or any REAL evidence. Just like the days of the inquisitions and witch hunts.

[jo1370]

SAN ANGELO, Texas %u2014 A lawyer for a 14-year-old girl that is on a list of so-called "disputed minors" said this morning she is not pregnant as Texas child welfare authorities have alleged.
"My client does not have children. (She) is not pregnant. She''s the youngest on the list of disputed minors," said Andrea Slone This is the 14 yr old that CPS said was pregnant....in the three days that these hearings have started...they have found 9 girls over 18...20 still undecided being checked....and they are lying about them being pregnant at all....says alot for the CPS system...

[emelder]

This will one day be known as one of the darkest hours in America''s judicial history. This entire episode is filled with disregard for human rights and due process. And the behavior of the judges and attorneys involved has been nothing short of shameful! When will the U.S. Supreme Court step in to ensure fairness and due process??? Can someone get them a test case ... or ask for their guidance in this matter?

[emelder]

Cpaide: I agree ... wholeheartedly. There needs to be accountability for the incredible abuse of human rights and the lack of due process. This is America ... and this kind of stuff shouldn''t be happening.

[girl52]

Cpaide, how many wives do you have? You must be one of them! No child or woman should go through any of this! God did not put Adam on this earth with 10 other wives! Adam had one wife and that''s how it is to be! And then to make a young lady have relations with and older man. That''s gross! Like letting your grandpa fill you up! Let the kids be kids, and respect the women so they will respect themselves. The man is to provide for is family not knock up so many women he can''t afford anything, and the women and child live off the government. How fair is that to the tax payers!?

[element51]

DragonWagon, Floyd, Nancy...Might as well just give it up. I knew from the beginning that these cult members would gain the sympathy of the public. They are experts at making themselves look pathetic. Give them back their kids and let them go back to the dam ranch and continue to practice their "religion", make sure they get their welfare checks on time and that the bed in the "temple" has clean sheets. Since the things they do are done in the name of religion, they can pretty much do as they please and the rest of us should just look the other way. Maybe some things are best just left alone. Sad but that''s the way it is.

[cbutler69]

Polygomy was outlawed by the Mormon church in the late 1800''s, so what has changed? IT IS STILL OUTLAWED. Its like the illegals- illegal is illegal. The mormon men have so many wives and children they cant support them in Utah and thus they draw welfare- whats wrong with this picture.? Churches are suppose to be NON PROFIT so where do these churches come up with millions of dollars as they reported on the news for this sect. The Texas authorities as far as I am concerned were right in taking these children away from this place, now maybe they can learn to be useful instead of sheep and falling the others. If these factions have all this money there is no reason they draw welfare off the government. All these churches need to be checked out and maybe changes made. They can have their religion, but religion doesnt includes children being married off to 50-60 year old men and having their childhood stolen from them.

[emelder]

This isn''t about polygamy ... it''s about abuse and disregard of due process under law, as guaranteed ALL Americans under the constitution.

[tbweb]

The thing I don''t like about groups that form like this is that they think they are better than everyone else! They want American benefits, free Public Welfare, WIC, Food Stamps, Medical and a free ride since most of them really don''t work, assimilate or participate within society or allow their families to mingle with normal American families and also want to live free and safe within American borders without public or military service. They just want to make babies, multiply, pray to their God and be left alone, well so do many others but their lifestyle is supported by Tax Payers and like many others living on the public payroll its not a big deal when there are only a few, but in larger numbers its too expensive and not realistic. I''m not picking on these Americans and if people are honest in assessing their lifestyle it will become obvious they are actually taking advantage and picking on the rest of Americans!

[emelder]

cpaide: I just emailed both of my U.S. Senators (PA) ... asking them to request that the U.S. Supreme Court review the actions of Texas authorities. Will any other bloggers join me in this effort? I''m told that if a U.S. Senator gets just 12-15 emails or letters on a topic, they consider it a hot topic ... and they assign a staff member to the issue. Let''s raise a ruckus over the disregard of basic due process of law by Texas authorities.

[scttbrunson]

The TX agency responsible for this outrageous injustice is out of control. Where is the ACLU?

[emelder]

dragonwagon5: Well ... with the Supreme Court heavy with Bush appointees, what have you got to lose if they review the actions of Texas authorities. I''m just saying the Texas officials violated the due process clause of the U.S. Constitution ... that one protects us all. Let all ask our U.S. Senators to request a review by the Court.

[jo1370]

SAN ANGELO, Texas A lawyer for a 14-year-old girl that is on a list of so-called "disputed minors" said this morning she is not pregnant as Texas child welfare authorities have alleged.
"My client does not have children. (She) is not pregnant. She''''s the youngest on the list of disputed minors," said Andrea Slone .................This is the 14 yr old that CPS said was pregnant..from the very beginning when they took the children away ...this was suppose to be the reason why..in the three days that these hearings have started...they have found 9 girls over 18...20 still undecided being checked for their ages....and now they are lying about them being pregnant at all....says alot for the CPS system...

[emelder]

re: Posted by ttinsly at 01:49 PM

I wholeheartedly agree that ANTONE who has broken Texas or Federal law should be prosecuted ... that''s not the problem. The problem is the incredible disregard of due process and the seizure of all those children ... again, without due process afforded to each and every parent and child. The protection of the U.S. constitution must be there for all of us, or it''s there for none of us. History will mock the way Texas officials handled this problem.

[gopsoccermom]

I hope they return the children soon so they can get back to their normal lives.

[emelder]

re: Posted by dragonwagon5 at 01:55 PM

You mock me. But I have no problem with Texas authorities going after lawbreakers ... they should! I have a problem with how they did it ... by literally invading the compound, by the indiscriminate rounding up of ALL children, by the neglecting due process of law with regard to the rights of parents and children alike. Wait until this one day sorts out, and your comments will be seen in a different light entirely.

[emelder]

Just this afternoon, I emailed both of my U.S. Senators (PA) ... asking them to request that the U.S. Supreme Court review the actions of Texas authorities. Will any other bloggers join me in this effort? I''''m told that if a U.S. Senator gets just 12-15 emails or letters on a topic, they consider it a hot topic ... and they assign a staff member to the issue. Let''''s raise a ruckus over the disregard of basic due process of law (toward both children and parents) by Texas authorities.

[smiley676]

with the Supreme Court heavy with Bush appointees, what have you got to lose if they review the actions of Texas authorities. I''''m just saying the Texas officials violated the due process clause of the U.S. Constitution ... that one protects us all. Let all ask our U.S. Senators to request a review by the Court.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by emelder

You appear to be confused. There are only 2 Bush appointees on the Supreme Court. It actually remains a liberal Court (as can be seen by the recent opinions in Raich, Kelo, etc.).

Constitutional rights were not necessarily violated in this case, but the Supreme Court has not right to review it, until a final decision is made by the highest level state court. The state court may itself find that Constitutional rights were violated. Let the system work first.

[gopsoccermom]

dragonwagon5, yes they can go back wearing nice decent clothing like those prarie dresses. Young women look so much better in them than those low rider jeans and tubing tops.

[smiley676]

Just this afternoon, I emailed both of my U.S. Senators (PA) ... asking them to request that the U.S. Supreme Court review the actions of Texas authorities. Will any other bloggers join me in this effort? I''''''''m told that if a U.S. Senator gets just 12-15 emails or letters on a topic, they consider it a hot topic ... and they assign a staff member to the issue. Let''''''''s raise a ruckus over the disregard of basic due process of law (toward both children and parents) by Texas authorities.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by emelder

The Senate does not have the power to ask the Supreme Court to review activities. The only way to get to the Supreme Court is to bring your own personal case before the Court.

[emelder]

re: Posted by smiley676 at 02:04 PM

OK ... you''re right. But it doesn''t hurt for U.S. Senators to request a review of the actions by the U.S. Supreme Court. Texas courts are moving very slow in this matter, while young children have been pulled from their parents. Their emotional safety demands speed by the courts. I wonder if the good ''ole boy network is in place in Texas. How about if Civil Rights progress had been left to Mississippi or Alabama???

[markcfl1]

Everyone

Please refrain from replying to dragonwagon5''s trash talk. He has nothing worthy of debating, and seems to relish direct confrontation.

[smiley676]

OK ... you''''re right. But it doesn''''t hurt for U.S. Senators to request a review of the actions by the U.S. Supreme Court. Texas courts are moving very slow in this matter, while young children have been pulled from their parents. Their emotional safety demands speed by the courts. I wonder if the good ''''ole boy network is in place in Texas. How about if Civil Rights progress had been left to Mississippi or Alabama???


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by emelder

What is the point of Senators requesting a review, when they have no authority to request such a review and the Court CANNOT review the actions without someone directly involved bringing the case? There is no point, nothing can be done by Senators asking the Court to review the situation and the Senators won''t make such a request because they know they have no authority.

Your argument is totally flawed. The Civil Rights changes came about through a new law, pushed by a President. If you want to change the law Senators can do that. But they can''t tell/ask the Supreme Court to review state actions.

[emelder]

re: Posted by smiley676 at 02:13 PM

Once again, I''m sure you''re right. But I want some powerful people in Washington to get onto this blatant case of judicial abuse by Texas authorities. I don''t want this story to die down. I want to see the children and their parents afforded due process as guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution. I stand with the parents in this matter, and with the children''s right to remain with their parents (or another relative until this thing sorts out legally). Foster care is often a nightmare experience for kids!

[gopsoccermom]

dragonwagon5, now I see what the others are talking about. Burkas on those nice young women in prarie dresses. Now you are trying to turn them into terrorists.

[smiley676]

emelder
I''m not saying this isn''t a terrible situation. But this isn''t a federal matter, it is a state matter. And the state court has the power to deal with the situation first. That is how the Constitution is set up. Don''t be so quick to give up the state''s rights. It might seem like a good idea in this one limited situation, but overall it is a bad idea. And the Federal government has been given more and more of the state''s and the people''s rights recently.

If you have an issue with what is happening, go to Texas, write to Texas Senators and the Texas Court. Let justice do its job.

[raskal_2]

The Latter Day Saint''s, it has been rumored by some, exist for the sole purpose of reminding the Christians how the Jewish feel (i.e.,adding books to the bible) But seriously, a true understanding of all this was written long before any religion of the modern age even existed,

When God(TAO) is lost , there is goodness
When goodness is lost, there is morality
When morality is lost there is ritual,
Ritual is the mere husk of true faith,
and the beginning of Chaos. (tao, verse38)

Here is Texas trying to find morality and goodness in the ritualistic ways of a religion lost to Chaos. I don''t think much can be said for any of the players in a religious sort of way. (It is all bad.)

[gopsoccermom]

dragonwagon5, oh thats different.

[emelder]

to: smiley676

Thank you for such a thoughtful response. Too much baiting in this blog, but I enjoy the CBS news site and enjoy watching CBS evening news. gotta go ... best wishes.

[yongamerica]

"If we can establish I''m not guilty of those things, why can''t I have my children?" asked Arthur Barlow, 59, after driving from southern Utah to seek custody of five of his children, who lived at the Yearning For Zion ranch in Eldorado.

Here is a man whose children were literally taken away from him by the FLDS church. Hardly a godly act is it?

[yongamerica]

raskal_2 - well spoken

[markcfl1]

yongamerica

True, not a godly act. Mr. Barlow did have some nice things to say about his ex-wife.

In other developments Tuesday, a former FLDS member who said he had been "excommunicated" by the group traveled more than 1,000 miles to Texas so he could support Esther Barlow, his former "spiritual wife," in her legal quest to get the couple''s five children returned to her.

"I can honestly say there''s not a better mother than Esther," said Barlow, who split from her four years ago and now lives with another wife and their 12 children in Utah.

Barlow also told the judge that if the state doesn''t return the children to his ex-wife, he was willing to move his current family to Texas to take care of them.

[cpaide]

"What has the catholic church done in the name of religion?
Fornication?
Child abuse/endangerment?
Statutory rape?
Pedophilia?
Fashion faux pas?"
Posted by dragonwagon5

you''re right, dear, but we are talking about the texas mormans here, so we shouldn''t be concerned with other churches ;^)

[cpaide]

"By the way Gobbldygook,
It''s spelled prairie.
Mormon schools don''t seem to lurn ther yungons very gud."
Posted by dragonwagon5

yes, dear, and it''s spelled "polygamy"--not "poligamy".

where did or didn''t you go to school? ;^)

[cpaide]

"cpaide: I just emailed both of my U.S. Senators (PA) ... asking them to request that the U.S. Supreme Court review the actions of Texas authorities. Will any other bloggers join me in this effort? I''m told that if a U.S. Senator gets just 12-15 emails or letters on a topic, they consider it a hot topic ... and they assign a staff member to the issue. Let''s raise a ruckus over the disregard of basic due process of law by Texas authorities."
Posted by emelder

i''m sure the congress is well aware of this incident and will do nothing if all they get are a few emails.

maybe a better approach would be to email mitt romney and ask him to spend a few million $$$ hiring lawyers to represent the mormons and to lobby congress on this matter.

he has made many, many speeches in mormon sacrament meetings and conferences regarding similar treatment endured by the mormons in nauvoo, illinois, jackson county, missouri, the state of deseret (utah territory), etc. etc.

surely if the mormons were wronged in the 1800''s, these texas mormons are being wronged today and deserve the support of the mormon church in salt lake city.