Sect Parents Decry Vague Custody Plans

FLDS Claims Religious Persecution; Says "There's No Clear Answer" To Getting Children Back

(CBS/AP)  The parents of the children in state custody after a raid at a polygamist sect's ranch came to a courthouse asking one question: How do we get back our children?

They left complaining that Texas child welfare officials offered no real answers Monday as five judges began sorting the massive custody case into separate family groups. The state has more than 460 children from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in foster care.

Texas officials are making it impossible for parents to get back their children, complained Willie Jessop, an elder of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which runs the ranch in Eldorado.

"Every parent is accused of being bad and there's no cure," he said after the first day of hearings, which were to resume Tuesday and expected to last three weeks.

All the parents got the same template plan outlining allegations of abuse at the ranch and services required for the children and parents. Judges made few changes, though several expressed concerns about the lack of specifics. The plans do not make it clear whether the children will ever be allowed to return to the ranch.

"What the parents are trying to find out here is what they need to do to get their children back, and there's no clear answer to that," FLDS spokesman Rod Parker said.

The parents say they are being persecuted for their religion, which includes the belief that polygamy brings glorification in heaven.

In one hearing, attorneys complained that the Book of Mormon was confiscated from some of the children at a foster facility.

"If they can openly admit they can take away the Book of Mormon from us today, it'll be the Bible tomorrow," Jessop said.

State Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said officials have not been able to confirm whether the sect members' holy text was taken from them, but they have removed photos, sermons and books of FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs, a convicted sex offender.

Edward and his wife Dora Mae, who are the parents of six, told CBS' The Early Show that it has been eight days since they have seen their children.

"We're trying to find out what it is we can do to prove because we don't even know what we're charged with. We've just been blanketed with a charge and we don't even know what it is that we've done to have them take our children from us," Dora Mae said.

"Every American mother should be standing in line saying, 'this is wrong, this is America'," Dora Mae added. "I have the right to hold my baby and rock her. I have the right to love my children."

None of the judges allowed much discussion on whether the initial grounds for removing the children from the ranch were valid. Such re-examination will likely depend on an appeals court.

Texas child welfare authorities argued that all the children, from newborns to teenagers, should be removed from the ranch because the sect pushes underage girls into marriage and sex and encourages boys to become future perpetrators.

Church members insist there was no abuse. They say the one-size-fits-all action plan devised by CPS doesn't take into account specific marriage arrangements or living circumstances.

Some sect members lived in a communal setting in large log houses they built themselves. Others lived as traditional nuclear families in their own housing on the ranch.

CPS spokeswoman Shari Pulliam said the plans look similar now but will be customized as officials get more information.

"It's logical they all look the same. All the children were removed from the same address at the same time for the same reason," she said. But "it's an evolving plan."

The plans call for parenting classes and vocational testing for the parents. They also require the parents to prove they can support their children and call for safe living environments, though they offer no specifics.

CPS supervisor Karrie Emerson said the parenting classes will be tailored to explain Texas laws regarding underage sex.

CPS has said the goal is to reunify the families by April.

The custody case has been unusual from the beginning. All the children at the ranch were treated as if they belonged to a single household, so the chaotic initial hearing involved hundreds of attorneys for children and parents and broad allegations from the department about the risks of abuse.

So far, 168 mothers and 69 fathers have been identified in court documents; more than 100 other children had unknown parents as the hearings got under way. DNA samples have been taken, but the first results are at least two weeks away.

The state acknowledged Monday that two more sect members it listed as minors were actually adults, a mistake it has made at least four times.

The children were removed from the ranch during an April 3 raid that began after someone called a domestic abuse hot line claiming to be a pregnant 16-year-old abused by a much older husband. The caller has never been found and authorities are investigating whether the calls were a hoax.

The FLDS is a renegade breakaway of the Mormon church, which renounced polygamy more than a century ago.

Sect leader Jeffs has been sentenced to prison in Utah for being an accomplice to rape in arranging a marriage of a 14-year-old follower to her 19-year-old cousin. He is awaiting trial in Arizona, where he is charged as an accomplice with four counts each of incest and sexual conduct.

Court documents listed 10 children of Jeffs living at the ranch. If DNA tests confirm that any of the children are his, the children will be allowed to keep a photo, unlike the other sect children, said Meisner, the CPS spokeswoman.

[markcfl1]

httpwwwnews

See website below for another reason to return the children to their mothers

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/052108dntexnelson.11782549.html

[billpl-2009]

dragonwagon5

apparently you''ve never heard of "tongue in cheek" LOL

...but actually
on behalf of the FLDS
they''re not Pedophiles
not more than another else
If they could figure a way to keep their nasty little system working
and wait until the girls turn 18
I''m pretty sure they would

as one polyg put it

"young and dumb is the trick,
Pedophilia is just a bonus"

[markcfl1]

Read the story above
"The state acknowledged Monday that two more sect members it listed as minors were actually adults, a mistake it has made at least four times" An additional five were reclassified as adults this afternoon.

[markcfl1]

Your mind is wasted. Get help.

[billpl-2009]

"dragonwagon5
Where did you get your information that 12, 13, 14, and 15 year olds were raped? If you have no source, it is fabricated by your perverted mind." -- markcfl1

...yeah really.
what do you mean "raped"?
Even Elizabeth Smart eventually accepted her marriage with Mitchell too
...that is, before the Police kidnapped her
and gave her back to her parents.

once their little girls get married
the FLDS parents don''t want them back.

Outside of Utah and Arizona
it''s impossible to have "arranged" s-e-x with a minor
marriage or not
consent or not
and not be rape

[markcfl1]

I am not a defense attorney, so I cannot defend anyone in a court of law. Twenty years ago, I did however swear to protect the Constitution of the United States. CPS has trampled the Constitution, under absolute power law. My views will change if these men are convicted of rape. Irregardless, restore the Constitution and end this genocide, by returning these children to their mothers. Simple enough?

[markcfl1]

Okay, the number of 31 is dropping steadily, by nine, I believe, in the past two days. With an age spread of 14-17, how did you come up with 12, 13, 14, 15 year-olds being raped? Once again, your mind.

[markcfl1]

What CBS report? What CPS or law enforcement official made this charge? What arrest has been made? I consider this accusation serious and would like to know more.

I am not accusing you of having *** with a minor, simply stated if your mind came up with these ages, you have perverted reasoning. Maybe you should contact Texas CPS with your knowledge.

[markcfl1]

dragonwagon5

Where did you get your information that 12, 13, 14, and 15 year olds were raped? If you have no source, it is fabricated by your perverted mind.

[barbaraf4]

"Did the psychotic woman impregnate these 15 year old children at the rape ranch too?" Posted by dragonwagon5
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don''t know. 15 year olds get pregnant everyday. It doesn''t mean their daddy did it.

[billpl-2009]

"....Some people life shabby little lives. That doesn''''t mean they are guilty of anything" -- barbaraf4

don''t discount my words
I''m not talking shabby here.
what I described explainable or not would make it very difficult to get your kids back

And remember "guilt" is NOT required when it comes to Child Protection.
they only need suspicion.
....and they take ALL the kids.
It''s the way we WANT it to be.

on another note, think about this
what this wasn''t a religious group?
but rather a break-away group from the Hell''s Angels
and they were doing the exact same stuff only different?

think they''d get their kids back either?
think you''d care?

Texas got it right
even if they end up *** it all up

[gaye5]

The article says....The parents say they are being persecuted for their religion, which includes the belief that polygamy brings glorification in heaven.

They obviously dont follow the bible of the Christians, which says that they are to be married to only one person and only if that person dies or commits adultary are they free to marry someone else... It is obviously a cult..

barbaraf4.......... that woud be terrible, but even past inmates of this compound say that it was immoral and that children were got at.
You say...Some people life shabby little lives. That doesn''''t mean they are guilty of anything.
No but it sure would give you some idea and it would cause you to have big question marks, and it would also cause teachers to keep a protective eye on the child. Doesnt it show the sort of person that they are inside..

[barbaraf4]

Posted by billpl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But some of your scenario is explainable. The fact that you live in chaos, have a teenage *** daughter, a wife with low self-esteem and kids who like to play dress up doesn''t mean you are child molester.

Some people life shabby little lives. That doesn''t mean they are guilty of anything.

[billpl-2009]

"What if the police broke into your home and took away your children while accusing you of abuse - sexual and physical. What if the accusation was made by a psychotic woman who had made similar, unfounded accusations against others in the past. What if they believed her. What if you had to go to court and prove your innocence. Meanwhile your children are in the foster care system really being abused. How exactly would you feel? " -- barbaraf4

If they found my teenage daughter pregnant
one of the kids not mine
my wife refusing to answer questions without my help
kids dressed up in Halloween costumes in Spring
my dad in prison for accessory to rape of a 14 year old

I''m thinking?
I''m not seeing my kids anytime soon.

but that''s not me
If it were me?
they''d give my kids right back
they maybe even would say "I''m sorry"
...but I doubt it

[wlmrtpatriot]

The foreign elitist "perverts" are the most horrifying in this case. Also the designer children abducted by rich stars and starlets who have parents somewhere that didn''t understand they were signing away the rights to their children.
Send these teenagers home with their children. To date all the teens have been at least 18 yr. olds. The old men are gone from the homes, these women and children should be given some of the vast estate of the mastermind Mr. Jeffs.
These poor misguided teens have been threatened by CPS workers with arrest for waving at friends. This was a ''rescue mission''? These women don''t need welfare dollars, save that for inner cities and people who really need to be supported. Use the tax dollars to build better schools, hire better teachers etc. This religion can afford to take care of it''s own. The children should be given back to their mothers.

[barbaraf4]

What if the police broke into your home and took away your children while accusing you of abuse - sexual and physical. What if the accusation was made by a psychotic woman who had made similar, unfounded accusations against others in the past. What if they believed her. What if you had to go to court and prove your innocence. Meanwhile your children are in the foster care system really being abused. How exactly would you feel?

[element51]

Sorry, I meant the comment below to be directed at bullyforhim.

[element51]

dragonwagon5.....Yes, I do believe they are guilty. All you have to do is look at their leader, who is currently in jail for aiding in the rape of a 14 year old girl, and educate yourself a little about what these people believe. And why would they be so secretive about their "compound" if they had nothing to hide? Then there are the testimonies of some who have escaped and they all tell the same story. So yes, I think they are breaking the law and harming young children. Prove me wrong and they can all go back to the compound. As for the assumption of guilty before innocent just look at the facts. I believe in justice but I also believe that society has a duty to protect children if there is any question as to their safety.

[billpl-2009]

erra? Bullyforhim.

I take it you''re not a Political "rocket" Scientist.

"Innocent before guilty" refers to crime not child protection
the better term would be
"better safe than sorry"
and remember the cops didn''t take the kids...CPS did
and CPS didn''t make the decision
...it came from a Judge
without a Judge, they''re not allowed to tie their own shoes.

as for that housing project?
if they found that place full with bunch of pregnant teens?
and 100 out of 450 kids without identifiable parents?
...that place would be cleared out in New York minute.
further more,
without the "cloak" of religion?
all those mom''s and dad''s would be screaming too.
....from their prison cells.

...stop fooling yourself

[michaelcook2]

Where''s the investigation into Welfare Fraud. Our tax dollars are being taken from us, and given to this creepy cult. I can''t afford to support a multimillion dollar cult. I don''t want my tax dollars supporting old men raping young girls, calling it their god given right! Do a Google Search on the words "Bleeding The Beast" to see articles on their many government money scams.