WASHINGTON, May 16, 2008
Florida, Michigan Unlikely To Help Clinton
Interviews With Dem Committee Members Show Little Support For N.Y. Senator's Position Over Disputed Delegates
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Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., waves at her West Virginia primary night event in Charleston, W. Va. Tuesday, May 13, 2008. (AP)
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Interviews with those considering how to handle the two states' banished convention delegates found little interest in the former first lady's best-case scenario. Her position, part of a formidable comeback challenge, is that all the delegates be seated in accordance with their disputed primaries.
And even if they were, it wouldn't erase Barack Obama's growing lead in delegates over Hillary Rodham Clinton.
The Democratic Party's Rules and Bylaws Committee, a 30-member panel charged with interpreting and enforcing party rules, is scheduled to meet May 31 to consider how to handle Michigan and Florida's 366 delegates.
Last year, the panel imposed the harshest punishment it could render against the two states after they scheduled primaries in January, even though they were instructed not to vote until Feb. 5 or later. Michigan and Florida lost all their delegates to the national convention, and all the Democratic candidates agreed not to campaign in the two states, stripping them of all the influence they were trying to build by voting early.
But now there is agreement on all sides that at least some of the delegates should be restored in a gesture of party unity and respect to voters in two general election battlegrounds.
Clinton has been arguing for full reinstatement, which would boost her standing. She won both states, even though they didn't count toward the nomination and neither candidate campaigned in them. Obama even had his name pulled from Michigan's ballot.
The Associated Press interviewed a third of the panel members and several other Democrats involved in the negotiations and found widespread agreement that the states must be punished for stepping out of line. If not, many members say, other states will do the same thing in four years.
"We certainly want to be fair to both candidates, and we want to be sure that we are fair to the 48 states who abided by the rules," said Democratic National Committee Secretary Alice Germond, a panel member unaligned with either candidate. "We don't want absolute chaos for 2012.
"We want to reach out to Michigan and Florida and seat some group of delegates in some manner, at least most of us do. These are two critical states for the general (election) and the voters of those states who were not the people who caused this awful conundrum to occur deserve our attention and deserve to be a part of our process and deserve to be at the convention," she said.
Just as Democrats across the country have been divided over which candidate would make the better nominee, most of the panel members also bring personal preferences and political allegiances to the table.
Many are long-standing party officials with close ties to the Clintons. The former first lady has 13 members publicly supporting her, including campaign advisers Harold Ickes and Tina Flournoy who are working to build her delegate count. Eight are openly aligned with Obama. Nine others are officially undeclared.
"We have to have delegates, and they have to be delegations that reflect the opinions of those two states," said former DNC Chairman Don Fowler, a committee member supporting Clinton. "How we get there is very different because everyone sees these questions of who it helps and who it hurts. I don't think the formulation has been found that will get around the piece at this point." But he said a solution is probably possible among the diverse interests.
Because Obama is in the lead for the nomination, his camp heads into the meeting in a position of strength. It is possible the Illinois senator could clinch the nomination by the time the panel meets if he picks up the pace of superdelegate endorsements in the next two weeks.
But Obama has such a lead that he may be able to afford to be generous and give Clinton most of the delegates. That would help put the issue behind them and help him build good will in Michigan and Florida heading into the November election.
Still, some of Obama's supporters think the fairest solution is to disregard the primary votes and split the delegations evenly between the two candidates.
"It has to be a fair process for both candidates," said member Yvonne Gates, an Obama supporter from Nevada who said she wasn't sure what position she would support at the meeting. "My definition is a 50-50 split is something that is fair. It cannot be a situation where you give one candidate more votes than the other. In my opinion that wasn't an election when they didn't have a chance to get out and talk to the people of that community."
It's also possible that any vote that recognizes the Michigan and Florida results would legitimize their elections. Clinton has been arguing that she leads in the popular vote, but that's only when both states are included and it is very slim - fewer than 5,000 votes out of 34 million cast.
Her accounting also doesn't include some caucus states that favored Obama and where the popular vote wasn't tallied. The measure of winning the nomination is not the popular vote but the delegate count, and Obama leads 1,898 to 1,718, with 2,026 needed for the nomination. Still, Clinton is trying to use the popular vote argument to win over some delegates.
So far, Obama's campaign has not been giving direction publicly or privately to panel members. The Clinton campaign's official position has been full reinstatement, but her advisers acknowledge they are considering an idea before the panel to seat the delegates with half a vote each. Clinton campaign Chairman Terry McAuliffe said Sunday on NBC's "Meet the Press" that they "certainly might" accept a compromise to seat half the delegates.
If their elections had been held according to party rules, Michigan and Florida would have allocated a total of 313 pledged delegates based on the outcome of the vote. Using the results of the January elections, Clinton would get 178 to Obama's 67, giving her a 111-vote advantage. As of Thursday, she was behind 180 delegates, so that would not catch her up even under that unlikely scenario.
The plans before the committee will be more generous to Obama. The Michigan Democratic Party has proposed giving 69 of its 128 delegates to Clinton and 59 to Obama, an advantage of 10 delegates for Clinton.
A proposal from Florida would halve its 185 delegates. From that, Clinton would get 52.5 and Obama 33.5, a 19-delegate advantage for Clinton.
"I think it's a reasonable solution to the problem that was created, and my hope is that we'll be able to get past this and move on," said Allan Katz, an Obama supporter who serves on the panel but won't be able to vote on any Florida solution because he is from the state.
The committee is not bound to select the proposals offered and has authority to reinstate any number of delegates and divide them in any way.
An open question is how to handle the other type of delegates each state lost - the superdelegates who are party leaders not bound by the outcome of the vote and are free to support whatever candidate they personally choose. Michigan has 28 superdelegates, and Florida 25. A total of eight have declared for Obama, seven for Clinton and the rest are undeclared.
Germond said she hopes the meeting will begin the process of unifying the party.
"Probably what we will come up with will not make everybody or anybody completely happy, which will mean that we did a good job," she said. "It is mighty unfortunate that at this point in our nominating process we are talking about people who did not abide by the process instead of talking about (beating Republican presidential candidate) John McCain."
© MMVIII The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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It also casts doubt on whether or not the Democratic party stands for anything!? Non-party members look at that and see insincerity, equivocation, and weakness!
Making it LESS likely that they''d want to join it!
Let them sit out this year and learn from it!
If the public is upset by it in those states, they can punish those responsible by voting them out of office!
Hillary is behaving like a spoilt child, she AGREES to the rules and then when she is losing and she cant see any way out, she starts crying and getting hysterical, insisting that the rules be changed so she can win !!! She needs to be in kindergarten not on the political arena.
She reminds me of Bush. She simply lowers the bar for victory when she lost by the earlier definition.
What a great idea....i whish someone had thought of that a long time ago...
1) She had her fingers crossed when she agreed to the Fla and Mich rules.
2) She was too busy dodging sniper fire to campaign fully in N.C.
3) Should get bonus votes for being the sole person responsible for peace in northern Ireland.
4) She was annointed to be the next president by God.
5) Bill really misses the white house interns.
6) She is clearly the squeekest wheel.
7) You superdelegates owe Bill and Hill.
8) If you don''t vote Hillary, you are sexist.
9) Those who voted for obama MISREMBERED that they really voted for Hill.
10) If all else fails, she will throw a fit and hold her breath and kick and scream.
Core democrats won''t vote for his tax and spend gimme''s detrimental to the middle class, and clearly as already exhibited, he cannot get the majority vote.
The DNC is lying to you, and you are gullible enough to believe their bull *****.
600,000 + Obama
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Posted by jedi0808 at 10:27 AM : May 16, 200
No he doesn''t, without Michigan and Florida, he barely leads by 27,000 votes. Give me a break! Where did you people get an education?
Second: If a specific date is a problem, a second clear date must be put forward to the public by the DN so that voters are informed and can vote.
Third: Voting booths were open for business in Florida and Michigan, and people went to vote in extraordinay numbers in order not to miss out.
Fourth: The DN did not CLOSE voting stations and FREELY allowed the voting to go on - therefore votes have to be counted and added to the total.
Did the DN do a good job? I let you be the judge.
Did the voters do a good job? I bet they have!!!
yeah right how about naming those supposed sources who Donna Brazile try journalism sometime....and your article is a lie on top of it
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Posted by RowdyTexan2 at 11:03 AM : May 16, 2008
the popular vote shouldnt even matter, since it doesnt include the caucus states. Alaska, colorado, idaho, kansas, minnesota, north dakota all had caucses, their vote should count and all of them picked obama.
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Posted by dchu76 at 12:02 PM : May 16, 2008
just to add to that list nebraska,, washington, maine,. hawaii, wymoing
Clinton: 1,352
Obama: 1,418
After Kentucky, Oregon, Puerto Rico, Montana and South Dakota it will be even. The pledged delegates are the ones the voters voted for and all others should take that into consideration.
A vote or endorsement for this rookie car salesman is a vote/endorsement for WRIGHT, REZKO, AYERS, AND FARAHKHAN%u2026..OBAMA is dishonest and disgrace. He does not deserve my vote! WAKE UP DEMOCRATS, %u2026
VOTE for Hillary, she has the strength and experiences, please don%u2019t waste your vote!
IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
HE ALSO DESIRES TO OWN A CHURCHES FRIED CHICKEN OR AT LEAST A MANAGERIAL POSITION AT KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN...
THUS HIS MONIKER ''EAT MO CHICKEN'' IS APTLY APPLIED
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Thank you for your message about your father in Iran. This is something smart Americans have already believed will happen if the muslim is elected as president of USA. Yes, he is a definite part of their plan to overthrow this country. One of the reasons he is so unpatriotic is his loyalty to them. Please tell us more about the situation there in Iran concerning their plans with the muslim. Actually it makes my skin crawl to visualize what these terrorists have planned for America through the muslim. Thank you President Bush for your statement on Thursday. Keep it going.
Posted by seriousinusa at 04:11 PM : May 16, 2008
As-salaam alaikum. My friends of I are condemning those who celebrate nakba and, inshallah, this will be the last one they will a chance to celebrate. Al-hamdulilah
Posted by sjc_1 at 08:21 PM : May 16, 2008
________________
"It is clear that the uneducated, hard working Americans - white Americans - vote for me overwhelmingly. They are my core base."
Hillary dissed all non-white voters, i.e., Asian-American, African-Americans, Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, Latin Americans and Eskimos. Sounds as though she is saying only "white Americans" are hard working. As a Latino, I am insulted and my friends and I would never vote for her.
Please remember that everyone is of equal value, even the people we do not like. If we followed your perception of the world, what would it be like if you were in the minority, and the majority thought about you the way you feel about West Virginians? Your candidate cannot win with only the votes of better educated people. Your candidate needs the votes of people who are not as well off as you are. Your comments only demonstrate your contempt for people and your elitism. Shame on you for not believing that all people have value and worth.
and they''re doing a pretty good job of it.
It would be UN-Democratic to not seat their Delegates.
It would be UN-Democratic to not give Hillary Clinton the Delegates proportionate to the votes that she won.
It would be an insult to our intelligence to suggest a 50/50 split or anything less than the delegates Hillary Clinton was given by the vote of the people.
We are well aware that Barack Obama went out of his way to remove his name from the Michigan ballet in an attempt to nullify our votes.
We are well aware that Obama contacted his campaign workers in Michigan and had them urge voters to mark the "none of the above" box on the ballet. He asked them to hold rallys and make radio announcements in an attempt to steal votes from Hillary Clinton.
We are aware that thousands of Hillary Clinton supporters did not even vote in response to being told their vote would not count.
We are well aware that it was Obama himself who denied Michigan and Florida the chance to have a re-vote.
Don''t make us the Democratic Party that decided the American Flag would go back to having only 48 stars.
Besides, next time it could be your state.
It''s time to turn the page. Obama 2008.
BUT NOBAMA
BUT NOBAMA
BUT NOBAMA
BUT NOBAMA
BUT NOBAMA
BUT NOBAMA
BUT NOBAMA
55% of the Whites vote for Clinton and thats racist.
Michelle and Obama whine when the going gets rough.
They constantly remind us about how Obama is going to save the world and how only Obama can do that.
The White media is constantly kissing his Black Azz.
Even the Democratic Leadership gives them every break you can think of.
My disqust is turning to nauseousness.
How much more of this can a reasonable person take???
55% of the Whites vote for Clinton and thats racist.
Michelle and Obama whine when the going gets rough.
They constantly remind us about how Obama is going to save the world and how only Obama can do that.
The White media is constantly kissing his Black Azz.
Even the Democratic Leadership gives them every break you can think of.
My disqust is turning to nauseousness.
How much more of this can a reasonable person take???
Atlantic Online
May 12,2008
The stuff that Obama admitted to in the two books he
wrote is enough to lose him the election. But has
anyone heard anything about either of these writings
by a major National Television Station????
NO! Because they are setting on it until Hillary is
out of the picture and Obama will lose the Presidency
by the largest margine yet. And anyone who can''''t
see that and continues to believe otherwise after
reading those two books are being FOOLISH!!!!
The stuff that Obama admitted to in the two books he
wrote is enough to lose him the election. But has
anyone heard anything about either of these writings
by a major National Television Station????
NO! Because they are setting on it until Hillary is
out of the picture and Obama will lose the Presidency
by the largest margine yet. And anyone who can''''t
see that and continues to believe otherwise after
reading those two books are being FOOLISH!!!!
The stuff that Obama admitted to in the two books he
wrote is enough to lose him the election. But has
anyone heard anything about either of these writings
by a major National Television Station????
NO! Because they are setting on it until Hillary is
out of the picture and Obama will lose the Presidency
by the largest margine yet. And anyone who can''''t
see that and continues to believe otherwise after
reading those two books are being FOOLISH!!!!