Will Israel Survive?

National Review Online: The Country At 60, Still Fighting For Its Survivial

(National Review Online)  This column was written by Lisa Schiffren.

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Israel’s Independence Day, celebrated this week, is an odd holiday for Jews. It is a happy day, with picnics and singing and joy at the existence, after all these millennia of wandering, of a Jewish homeland, which will provide, depending on your religious views, either “the dawn of (messianic) deliverance,” or, at the very least, a point from which to safeguard the physical wellbeing of Jews.

It’s astonishing how many Jewish holidays are days of mourning - commemorations of loss, observed with prayers, fasting, or moments of painful silence. That is also true for modern Israeli holidays. Two days ago was Yom Hazikaron - Remembrance Day for the soldiers who have died defending Israel, much like Memorial Day. A week ago was Yom Hashoah - to pay respect to the six million Jews slaughtered in Europe during the Holocaust.

Even our happiest, most light-hearted holidays, Hannukah and Purim, are about ultimate triumph in face of near-death experience. You could, as I used to, find this depressing. Or you could understand that the annihilation of peoples happens all the time. And what is extraordinary about the Jews is survival over thousands of years as a people with a God and a plan - even if, at the end of that time, there are only 15 million of us left. Though the question of longevity for the Jewish homeland is a different matter altogether.

Very early one June morning when I was about six, I wandered out to the living room to find my normally apolitical mother standing stock-still, listening to the news with tears in her eyes. Israel, she explained, had been attacked by all of the surrounding Arab nations. It was the start of the Six-Day War. And, unlike the wars to follow, the watching adults were not in the least sure that Israel would survive.

But survive it did. At the tender age of 19, the young state beat back an existential threat.

That war changed everything. It changed the way Jews the world over thought of themselves. Suddenly the world’s biggest victims were astonishing warriors. The sons of men and women who had come as living skeletons from the death camps of Europe 20 years earlier could defend their reclaimed homeland. Yeshiva boys in Brooklyn stopped tolerating bullying from their Irish and Italian neighbors. Even the United States of America re-evaluated its relationship with Israel, deciding that a serious alliance might be mutually beneficial.

Those of us Jews who grew up in that era may not have been able to fully grasp Israel’s genuine vulnerability.

In that short week in 1967, the adolescent state assumed a solidity it had not previously possessed. That should have been a pure good for a battered people looking for the normality of a homeland above all. But there are no unalloyed victories in this world. Israel’s newfound strength slowly, over the ensuing decades, became the genesis of the world’s case against the tiny nation - and, of course, the Jews who inhabit it.

It didn’t help that the attacking Arabs had encouraged Israeli Arabs to flee, and the less economically talented of them landed in refugee camps - in which their fellow Arabs have kept them through these many decades. The stunted, death-loving heirs of those unlucky Palestinians, who have, as one writer recently pointed out, created a failed state even before getting a state, became, over time, the cause of the world’s rising antipathy towards Israel. And they became the rationale for continuing Arab antipathy towards Israel, by nations who cannot bring their own people into a reasonable facsimile of modernity.

In 1968 a hit song in Israel was called “Mahar,” which means “tomorrow.” It is a bouncy if saccharine song about all of the happiness, friendship with the neighbors, and children playing in peace that will come, tomorrow. The song was still popular a decade later, when I was a student in Jerusalem. I heard the students at my children’s middle school sing that song last night, and it could not have been a more poignant testament to the naïve generation that hoped the Six Day War had settled matters and put an end to the Arab desire to destroy Israel militarily.

But naïveté is not a crime. And sometimes it is helpful. What would a 20-year-old Israeli in 1967, delighted to have Jerusalem reunited, have thought if you told him that the next 40 years would bring unending hot wars and cold peace? Would he have wanted to raise his children there through wars of attrition, intifadas, battles in Lebanon, Iraqi Scuds falling on Tel Aviv in 1992 because the world resisted a takeover of Kuwait, and terrorism unending? To be sure, for all of the Israelis who found it unbearable and left, others have stayed and turned an impoverished desert strip, founded within a year of Pakistan and Burma, into a democratic first-world outpost. They did that entirely by dint of human capital and hard labor, in the face of a genuinely stupid political system, peopled by politicians with all the usual weaknesses. But ordinary Israelis are tired of living at war.

And now, sometimes the Israeli future seems just a little less clear. There is no sudden news report to instill fear, of course. But there is a daily, incremental accretion of threats to Israel’s existence: A particularly ineffectual prime minister, looking to compensate for his failure in a war, makes untenable concessions of land and sovereignty. An American secretary of state who sees the Palestinians as the oppressed blacks of her Alabama childhood pretends to deplore, yet turns a blind eye to, their willful renunciation of peace and embrace of terror. The terror groups that run the Palestinian territories continue to execute anyone who tips off the Israelis to terrorist threats. A nearby nation, under the sway of radical Islam and finally Jew-free after 2,500 years, threatens to annihilate Israel with nuclear weapons it is building. An American presidential candidate wants to chat with that state’s leaders.

The Arabs have long noted that the Crusaders came to the Holy Land, won some battles, and built some fortresses, but were chased out after a couple hundred years. They could outlast the Israeli invaders too. When I first heard that, a long time ago, Islam seemed weaker than it might have under Saladin, or than it does now. I am sure I sneered. But now a couple of hundred years does not seem like so long a time for a nation. Sixty is just a start.

So, for Israel at 60, the question of survival is still an open one. I can only say that for the first time in my life I now understand the nation’s vulnerability, and the fears its supporters must live with.

[tejasdemo]

Who cares.

[ricknuber]

More one-sided vomit from NRO. This "author" omits anything about Israel''s human rights abuses, de-facto apartheid, etc.

Both sides are guilty of indiscriminate civilian killings. They deserve each other at this point. Neither deserves my tax dollars.

[Razzl]

What you may be unaware of, ms. Shiffren, because it would be difficult to have a frank discussion of it in the company you keep at NRO, is that Israel has fatally thrown away several promising opportunities to construct a stable Palestinian state and defuse its security problems over the last 30 years, but each time succumbed to the politics of zionist fanatics who wanted to keep land they had no claim to or build settlements in places designed to be provocative, in order to generate excuses for expanding the Jewish state with the military force that the fanatics believed a permanent asset. Now Israel is faced with a fractured border without the right political elements for stabilization, an American ally whose non-Jewish people are weary of being used as cannon-fodder for Israeli ambitions, and deteriorating will among its own people to carry on forever as the new Sparta. Israel had its opportunities and threw them away, and may not survive the bad choices its people and its overseas friends have made...

[cfin5]

If Israel ever ceases to be a nation again, there is not one person on Judgment Day that will not be able to point their finger at God,......and call him a LIAR to his face. Not gonna happen.......God bless the nation of Israel!

[glock4me]

Of course Israel will survive. The Arabs fighting skills make the French laugh. Suicide bombing is a sign of despiration; even the Japanesse didn''t resort to kamakazi attacks until thier defeat/invasion was near.

[dtsingin]

ISRAEL IS GOD''S CHOSEN NATION.....PERIOD EXCEPT FOR THE UNITED STATES....PRETTY MUCH THE WHOLE WORLD HATES THAT LITTLE TINY COUNTRY!

[bluestardad]

WHAT THEY DO IS NOT IN AMERICAS NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST!

GET THEM OUT OF AMERICAN POLITICS!

START WAR CRIMES TRIALS NOW!

AMERICA STAND UP OR SHUT UP!

[sharncedar]

Americans do not believe in relgious mono-states. Americans believe that church and state should be seperate, and every person living within the boundaries within a state should have complete and private religious freedom to practice and believe their own faith. Isreal the "Jewish state" does not share our values. They are opposed to American values at the very core. Every time a little Arab or Christian boy or girl living in Israel is denied their right to worship God as they see fit, or to attend a mosque or Christian church, or they are belittled and made out to be less than equal to the religious oppressor that rules that land, it is an affront to everything America stands for. If we stand for anything, we stand for religious freedom above all other values. We cannot ever be correct in supporting a "Jewish state" as if a state containing diverse people could be rightfully ruled as a mono-religion.

These people are bigots, religious bigots, and they do not share our values. We should not have taken 9/11 for them, we should not be now in Iraq for them, we should have nothing to do with a "Jewish state" other than demand they give political and religious freedoms to all their people.

[ehioghai]

Of course, God cares. Most of the comments made so far shows how naive, selfish and narrow minded most of you are. However, be rest assured that as long as there is God, the nation of Israel will survive. Wake up. In all that has happened and continue to happen with regards to the nation of Israel, do you still need more proof that there is God?

[irliberal]

Posted by ehioghai at 05:44 PM

Lets see. You say that because Israel currently exists as a nation, that is proof that there is a God.

How patently absurd can you be?

[cdfoxtrot]

Israel is a nation of parasites on the American taxpayer. For its disgraceful treatment of innocent Palestinian civilians, it deserves whatever it will get.

[cdfoxtrot]

These people are bigots, religious bigots, and they do not share our values. We should not have taken 9/11 for them, we should not be now in Iraq ford them, we should have nothing to do with a "Jewish state" other than demand they give political and religious freedoms to all their people.

Posted by SharnCedar

Well put. I think most Americans would be surprised to see how socialist the Israeli state is. And they fail to see the disconnect between the concept of "democracy" and a state based on Judaism. By definition, Israel is not a democracy.

[ronen14-2009]

Its so sad how even though many Arabs are mostly illiterate, primitive people who believe in killing non-believers and who danced in the streets during 9/11 still think Israel is the aggressor. Israel is America''s only true ally in the middle east. Jesus would be so disappointed.

[ricknuber]

ehioghai:

If God will protect Israel, we can cut off her allowance...right?

Doubtful. This welfare state is only in existence because American taxpayers prop it up.

[glock4me]

I expect that Israel would be more successful if it sought closer alliance with its neighbors and distanced itself from the aims of the colonial - crusader powers.

In any case, in the near term, it is certainly good to be alive.


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Posted by CBS_Oliver at 08:12 PM : May 09, 2008


CBS_Oliver, some interesting arguments about the 3-way religeous conflict in the middle east. Seems that until recently the Christians and Jews were run out of the area. Perhaps the whole Nazi Germany experience (REAL Nazis not the silly label thrown around by people to describe others they simply don''t like) pushed them into some sort of survival mode.

After 9/11 it''s pretty hard not to side with Israel (or at least against the Muslims). Too bad Israel isn''t sitting on top of a huge oil field... weapons for oil = 50 cents per gallon?

[rational_1]

Israel''s greatest threat may turn out to be internal, in the form of the differential birthrate between the Jews and the Palestinians; the revenge of the cradle.

[tbweb]

Will Israel Survive?

If Israel doesn''t there won''t be anyone left around to find out, if Israel is destroyed, Israel has enough nuclear weapons to take the rest of the planet with it! It really does pain me to think about the nuclear disaster from the Russian Chernoble nuclear leak. 20 years later it still devastates and it was only a "leak", imagine an intentional nuclear detonation on the planet surface, if it happens we are all done! More and more and increasingly Politicians are talking about nuclear wars as if its the same as conventional wars, citing tactical nuclear weapons as if their small size matters or are less lethal! I and others pray we never find out. This is why Iran is so scary, the rest of the World is stepping back from nuclear weapons and Iran is rushing toward them, in the context of leaving its nuclear options open in an unverified way!

[kaelinda]

I guess everyone has forgotten that it was all the neighboring Arab countries that attacked Israel in 1967, during the Six Day War. And again in 1973. Don''t talk about Israel''s lack of diversity until you''re willing to own up to the entire Arab world''s lack of diversity. When I was in Israel, I found it easy to attend a Christian church - but Christians aren''t allowed to worship at all in many Muslim countries. Nor are Jews. Arab-Israels are free to worshop whomever they choose. And as for Israel having lots of opportunities to make peace, every single time it was conditioned on Israel giving up some of the tiny little piece of land it has. The Balfour Declaration gave that land to Israel - including the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. And the Golan Heights were won from Jordan when that country attacked Israel. How can anyone say Israel is a theocracy unless they''ve never been there and don''t know what in the world they''re talking about?

[down-ndirty]

"And now, sometimes the Israeli future seems just a little less clear."


Written by a Jew, this article is obviously lacking the whole picture and biased. Their future would be much less clear if it weren''t for the $10M/day in U.S. taxppayer support over the past few decades. All for what?

There will never be peace in the middle east until Israel moves back to the 1967 borders that they agreed on at that time. The Arabs will never stop attacking Israel until the Israelis move back to the agreed upon borders AND stop treating Palestinians like refugees.

The huge influx of Jews from other countries, especially Russia, hasn''t helped the situation. The fact that Israel''s population has outgrown its borders does not give them the right to simply "take" neighboring land from other nations. Israel has been doing this since 1967. We in the U.S. wouldn''t tolerate that from our neighbors; why should the Arabs?

[galloglaigh]

These people are bigots, religious bigots, and they do not share our values. We should not have taken 9/11 for them, we should not be now in Iraq ford them, we should have nothing to do with a "Jewish state" other than demand they give political and religious freedoms to all their people.

Posted by SharnCedar
__________________________

I totally agree. Even Christians, who coddle Jews, are treated like third-class citizens in Israel. You will not find as many non-Jews in Israel''s government as you find Jews in U.S. government; in fact, you will be hard pressed to find any Christians in Israel''s government.

Israel is nothing like the U.S. and they do not deserve our support.

[galloglaigh]

Posted by razzl at 02:50 PM : May 09, 2008
_______________

Very well said, razzl...

[galloglaigh]

ISRAEL IS GOD''''S CHOSEN NATION.....
Posted by dtsingin at 04:37 PM : May 09, 2008
_______________________

If that is true why can''t they survive without $10M/day from us, as in U.S.?

[galloglaigh]

Of course, God cares. Most of the comments made so far shows how naive, selfish and narrow minded most of you are. However, be rest assured that as long as there is God, the nation of Israel will survive. Wake up. In all that has happened and continue to happen with regards to the nation of Israel, do you still need more proof that there is God?
Posted by ehioghai at 05:44 PM : May 09, 2008
__________________

Get real. The only god that Israel knows is the god that hands them $10M/day--the U.S. taxpayer.
If not for "us" Israel would cease to exist.

[galloglaigh]

Its so sad how even though many Arabs are mostly illiterate, primitive people who believe in killing non-believers...
Posted by ronen14 at 06:52 PM : May 09, 2008
________________________

A very profound (and hypocritical) statement that could and does apply to the people of many countries, including the U.S. The U.S. was initially settled by many "primitive people" who escaped England to practice religious freedom, only to come here and kill many "natives" whom they determined to be "non-believers" because they practices a "different" kind of religion.

Politics has killed hundreds of thousands; however, religion has killed hundreds of millions.

How many illiterate people live in the U.S. today? LOL!!! The Arabs were doing complicated math when the American and European continents were occupied by aboriginies and cavemen.

[algoresarse]

Posted by galloglaigh at 03:16 AM : May 10, 2008
+ report abuse

****88

you should had said that in arabic...

[juwboy]

SharnCedar and galloglaigh:

Are there mosques in Israel?

Yes.

Are there churches in Israel?

Yes.

Are there synagogues in Israel?

Yes.

Are there Korans in Israel?

Yes.

Are there Bibles (both Testaments) in Israel?

Yes.

Are there mosques in Saudi Arabia?

Yes.

Are there churches in Saudi Arabia?

No.

Are there synagogues in Saudi Arabia?

No.

Are there Korans in Saudi Arabia?

Yes.

Are there Bibles in Saudi Arabia?

No.

What is the penalty for the crime of attempting to smuggle a Bible into Saudi Arabia for your own personal use?

Use your imagination.

[A clue: bear in mind that the "kind and usual punishment" in Saudi Arabia for the female VICTIM of a gang rape is 100 lashes]

[johnshaft4]

Screw Israel. They have no oil and we don''t need them. Some "promised land'' and "chosen people".

[babooph]

Poor Israel is an obvious target for a terrorist nuke-all those 100 nukes they have been given would have no real target to get back at- Idiotic US policy is largely at fault for this impending doom-what a mess!!!

[sepa2]

religious and ethnic matters aside the amazing thing is how US politicians have allowed to undermine our own interests. Case in point is Iran, we could have easily got them on our side with little compromise once we topple their enemy - Sadam. Iran is the main conduit to central asian oil. Russia is exploiting our foolishness to monopolize that region.

[jdm2008-2009]

After al the bloodshed, the killing, the insults, denial, the destructions of Iran, Syria, Hezlilbah, Hamas, and any other group who sides with these enemies; Israel will survive! They will live to speak and give glory to a God who has always loved them and has never forsaken them.

[idnnsg]

This article started off appearing to be a thoughtful consideration of various factors that affect Israel. As it continued, however, it became clear that the purpose of this article was simply to stir up fear to support more war.

I was especially struck by this one line, at the end of a long list of items which may threaten the continued existence of Israel: "An American presidential candidate wants to chat with that state''s leaders." Clearly, this is a reference to Barack Obama. Somehow, to Lisa Schiffren, the mere willingness to talk with another country''s leaders poses a gigantic threat to her beloved Israel! What a sick little mind this girl must have! If you don''t talk to people, you can''t find out what they want, what they "need", what they plan to do, or what things you may have in common. In that case, you are doomed!

IF much of Israel is like Lisa Schiffren, then the answer to the question posed by this article is no, Israel will NOT survive, and they will NOT deserve to.

[microchip470-2009]

It%u2019s clear reading through the comments that many of you are misinformed and have never been to Israel to really know what life is like there. I would first like to clear up the myth that Israel has de facto apartheid. All Israelis, Jewish, Muslim, Chrisitian, Druze, and others are given equal rights, citizenship, right to pray, and voting rights. Even when Muslims praying at the temple mount through rocks down at Jewish prayers during Friday night (Shabbat) services, Israel still lets Muslims pray there. If Jews or Christians through rocks at Muslims praying in a Muslim country, they would lose any right they have to pray and would probably be executed. Further, there was a comment about how there are not many minorities in Israel%u2019s government; however, the Knesset (Israel%u2019s parliament) is made up of 10% of Arabs. Some may think this number is low, but the Israeli political system is different than in American. Israel has a parliamentary system, so voters vote for a party, which has a list of candidates, based on the percentage of the vote the party gets, that determines how many seats that party gets in the Knesset. So the low percentage of Arabs in the Israeli Knesset is not because of an Israeli desire to discourage Arab participation, but that fact that the Arab parties are not getting the percentage of votes%u2026continued

[microchip470-2009]

(continued from before)When we hear about Israel%u2019s security policies (at airports and such), and that they spend more time searching Arabs than Jews. This is not really to say that they think Jews are superior to Arabs, but goes more with the fact that the Arabs are more likely to engage in suicide bombings than Jews as we have seen in the past. Basically, it is a really effective security strategy, even if it looks bad from a far, and the US should consider something similar, it may have prevented 9/11 from happening. To reiterate, Israel doesn%u2019t hate Muslims even though it is mainly Muslims who attack Israel. Israel hates radical Islamists who threaten the security of the state, but it recognizes that there are many peaceful Muslims out there who do not share the same ideas as the radicals. If there were a radical sect of Mexicans or Latin Americans who vowed to destroy the US, the US would target these extremist groups and would not be very friendly towards these people. Along that line, many people always complain about Israel%u2019s mistreating of Palestinians. Although the situation for many Palestinians is not that great, most of their condition is caused by themselves rather than by Israel. Israel imposes harsh restrictions on the Palestinians because it wants to limit the activity of radical militants and wants to send a message to the rest of the people that by allowing these militants to attack Israel, this is how you life is going to be%u2026continued

[microchip470-2009]

(continued from before)What is also omitted from these stories is that the people in the Palestinians Government take a large percentage of the money that is given in foreign aid and keep it for themselves and disperse only a small percentage of it to the rest of the people. Further, the Palestinians are quite capable of helping themselves, but they refuse to do so because they understand what their situation looks like in the media, and they want to try to win the sympathy of the rest of the world. In addition, 80% of the Palestinian population supports attacks on Israel, mainly through suicide bombs, which explicitly target civilians. Whether or not this 80% takes part in the actual militant action, they still support it and are considered by Israel to pose a threat. What is also omitted from the media is that Palestinians, who are caught tipping Israel off about militants or who stop attacks, wind up being executed by militants who many times also go after that person%u2019s family. Going back to the radical Mexican example. If 80% of Mexico supported the radical Mexican groups who wanted to take over the US, and if these radicals were constantly firing rockets over the border so people in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and California were unable to attend school, work, the grocery store, etc, it would be no surprise the US would attack Mexico. However, when Israel employs the same policy it gets criticized through out the world%u2026continued

[microchip470-2009]

(continued from before)People also claim that both sides target civilians so no one is really worse of than the other. This claim is completely false. It is true at times %u201Cinnocent%u201D Palestinians are killed by Israelis but there is a difference. First, Israel does not deliberately target innocent Palestinians as Palestinians deliberately target innocent Israelis. Second, many of the so called innocent Palestinian victims are really not that innocent and many times are throwing rocks at armed soldiers or tanks. This is really not a smart idea, as most of us would know, and even after being warned by the Israeli military to stop throwing rocks, they continue, and it should be no surprise that they are shot. Thirdly, many of the militants hide behind civilians when they fire rockets or live amongst them so that if Israel were to attack them, they would most likely hit civilians as well, and make Israel look bad in the media. Basically, the militants are using civilians as human shields. Fourthly, we hear about how an innocent family is on the beach and an Israeli shell kills the entire family. However, what usually isn%u2019t reported is that it is actually Palestinian militants who actually fired on the family and the Israelis were firing at the militants. Another thing that isn%u2019t reported is that civilians and militants who are injured in Israelis attacks or mis-happed militant attacks are taken to Israeli, yes Israeli, hospitals to be treated%u2026continued

[microchip470-2009]

(continued from before)This brings us to a statement, that Israel had the chance to go back to the 1967 borders, but it chose not to, and thus ruined itself. Again, this claim is false. The Israelis several times conceded land to the Palestinians, but it was the Palestinians who rejected such offers and it is thus the Palestinians%u2019 fault that they don%u2019t have a state right now. There have been some proposals by the Palestinians, and other Arab countries that Israel has rejected, but that is because is posed a security problem to Israel. Also, at the time, and even still now, there was the idea amongst the Palestinians that they would temporarily recognize the pre-1967 borders, but would then use these new borders to attack Israel. This idea can been seen when Israel recently disengaged from the Gaza Strip. Palestinians quickly destroyed greenhouses from Israeli settlers, which could have helped their economy, once the settlers left. There was also a continuation of rocket fire and militant attacks from Gaza because people in the Gaza strip saw the disengagement as a victory from years of attacks, and thought that if they continue to attack Israel, they will concede more land. Essentially, there overall goal is to wipe out Israel, which was even repeated by their president Mahmoud Abbas, who hinted that he does not intend to keep a long-term peace with Israel%u2026continued

[microchip470-2009]

(continued from before)During this feud with the Palestinians, Israel was able to make peace with Egypt and Jordan, countries who both wanted to make peace with Israel and believed in a lasting peace. The reason why the Israelis haven%u2019t made peace with the Palestinians is that Israel recognizes the Palestinians%u2019 lack of desire for a long-term peace and do not want to commit suicide for the nation of Israel. Lastly, I would like to talk about how Israel and the US have many things in common. There are claims that since Israel is a Jewish country, the US cannot or should not have relations with it. Spain considers itself a Catholic country, the Vatican is a Catholic country, and yet the US is able to have very good relations with these countries. The determining factor of whether or not the US should maintain strong relations with a country is in the overall similarities in values. These values are the practice of a free democracy, equal rights for its citizens, the willingness to protect its civilians, having a capitalistic economy, etc. Israel embodies all of these values, and it should be no surprise that the US and Israel has strong relations and such relations should continue into the future%u2026continued

[microchip470-2009]

(continued from before)There is a misconception that the US is targeted because it supports Israel. This is false; radicals, who hate the US, hate western values all together. Extremists see Israel, a country who embraces western values, as a way of attacking the US and the west. If they were able to destroy Israel, they would still hate the US and the west. There is also a myth that if Israel is a Jewish state, then it is not a democracy. Again, another false claim, the Jewishness of Israel is more about the culture of Israel, than about it imposing Jewish law on all of its citizens. First, Jewish law is not used as the civic law of Israel, and it is only used for religious matters, as is sharia law for the Muslims in Israel. Second, Israel was created because Jews had been persecuted globally and throughout history, and Israel gave Jews a haven where they could be free from such persecution. Israel was not created out of sympathy from the holocaust, but rather the holocaust was the last straw in Jews being persecuted. Thirdly, non-Jews in Israel are freely able to live normal lives and to freely practice their religion. Many of Israel%u2019s Jews are secular and do not really follow many of the Jewish laws. If these minorities really have a problem living is Israel, then they can move. Most of them don%u2019t because they realize how well off they are in Israel compared to any of the other Middle Eastern countries.

[microchip470-2009]

Somehow, to Lisa Schiffren, the mere willingness to talk with another country''''s leaders poses a gigantic threat to her beloved Israel! What a sick little mind this girl must have! If you don''t talk to people, you can''t find out what they want, what they "need", what they plan to do, or what things you may have in common. In that case, you are doomed!

-I agree that sovereign states should talk to one another, however, when countries like Iran repeatily call for Israel%u2019s destruction or when it%u2019s part of Hamas%u2019s constitution that Israel should be destroyed it is not so sick and really quite logical why you wouldn%u2019t or shouldn%u2019t talk to these people. Negotiations won%u2019t matter to these people because they have a clear goal in mind, the destruction of Israel, and will stop at nothing to achieve it. Talking to these people only wastes time, time that can be used to deter these people from creating the very doom you speak of.

[karl2m]

The author uses the term "holy land". Can anybody explain to me what is holy about it? i would rather call it the most desecrated piece of land on earth.

[galloglaigh]

you should had said that in arabic...
Posted by algoresarse at 03:52 AM : May 10, 2008

Are there Bibles in Saudi Arabia?
Posted by juwboy at 05:16 AM : May 10, 2008
______________________________


Ha Ha!! You are be so narrow minded...and so illiterate. Being a christian or an arab in Israel is not picnic.

Israel''s belligerence to its neighbors, and its citizens, is going to our downfall. In fact, it''s happening now. Our chauvinistic support of Israel and its human rights violations is causing the Arabs, with the support of Russia and China, to bring down our economy and ultimately weaken our country''s defenses. Why do you think we are paying $4/gallon of gas now? And a year from now we will think that was a bargain.

How effing dumb can you get?

juwboy and algoresarse don''t have a clue...they are just along for the ride on the chauvinist bandwagon and can''t think or reason for themselves. LOL!!!

[galloglaigh]

It%u2019s clear reading through the comments that many of you are misinformed and have never been to Israel to really know what life is like there. I would first like to clear up the myth that Israel has de facto apartheid. All Israelis, Jewish, Muslim, Chrisitian, Druze, and others are given equal rights, ...
Posted by microchip470 at 05:28 PM : May 10, 2008

Really?? Tell that to the christians who live there and to the many Palestinians who are "isolated" from their friends and families because Israel has set up conected communities with barriers that Palestinians are not allowed to cross.

If you have been there and can still write that crapp, then you must have had your eyes closed, or perhaps you stayed in the city. LOL!!!

Those statements discredit the rest of your rants.

[idnnsg]

"when countries like Iran repeatily call for Israel''s destruction" - microchip470

The country of Iran has not repeatedly called for Israel''s destruction. You are confusing one not very powerful president, Ahmadinejad, with the entire country. Iran''s prez used to be just a figurehead, with most powers held by the prime minister. Since 89, the office of the PM and prez merged. However, the prez does not command the armed forces or have the power to declare war. That''s up to the highest ranking political and religious authority of the nation, the Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, aka the Supreme Leader.

"...or when it''s part of Hamas''s constitution that Israel should be destroyed"

We''re talking about Iran, then you veered off topic. No matter what Hamas'' constitution says, it has no bearing on whether or not our leaders should talk with Iran. But even if Iran''s constitution did say Israel should be destroyed, that is NOT a reason to refuse to talk to them. If people talk to one another, it''s entirely possible that they will see that there''s no need for them to destroy each another. They just might find something that is mutually beneficial and discover that BOTH will be better off if no country tries to destroy the other.

If you want to continue to live in fear of your neighbors, and you don''t want to talk to them, then you are destined to imagine the worst of them and you are destined to suffer.

A life of fear is not life at all. It is self-destructive in.san.ity.

[johnshaft4]

At times, it is difficult to fathom that people are killing each over what is one of the most worthless pieces of real estate on the planet. They are equally insane.

[cthetruth1]

History repeats itself time and time again.
Apathy, indifference, greed, different shades of truth and lies, atrocities beyond comprehension or imagination, the poison of racial hate,
the human history of violence all lead to catastrophy. There is an inevitable collapse of all empires and nations that lose connection with reality,
lose touch with the simplest standards of morality, and who fail to look back at history and human nature as a looking glass to the future. Each side has their arguments and justifications. The violence to come will only parallel the insanity that exists in governments and the people to whom they serve. The difference between the past and the present are the weapons and the potential for human destruction. Based on human history... I see great, great trouble ahead.

[andylance1]

Obama represents the radical left-wing politics of George McGovern''s 1972 candidacy, which won only one state. It looks like 2008 is going to be a goldmine for the Republicans.

Assuming Obama wins the nomination, Jewish voters no longer have a home in the Democratic party. The nation of Israel turns 60 this year. Czar Nancy goes off to visit the President Asad of Syria and Jimmy Carter gets super friendly with Hezbollah and Hamas. The big question is: will Israel ever see its 70 birthday if Obama is elected president?

Latinos have a lot to be worried about also. Obama supports farm subsidies for corn and bio-fuels/Ethanol. Not only does this raise the prices at the grocery store but also causes starvation in Mexico.

[tbweb]

The huge influx of Jews from other countries, especially Russia, hasn''t helped the situation. The fact that Israel''s population has outgrown its borders does not give them the right to simply "take" neighboring land from other nations.

Posted by down-ndirty at 02:39 AM : May 10, 2008,,,

Common sense was never too common as it were and now with the advent of computers everywhere a lack of common sense is even worst! That''s the biggest change I notice around the world, people being locked into what a computer screen says they can and cannot do! There was a time when human to human communications worked out and resolved many issues, now you hear things like the computer program won''t let me do that, sorry! Redrawing some world borders or temporarily letting others use land not being used is not the big deal many make it out to be. For many years Russia and China was at each other throats with millions of troops on each others borders, now Russia lets China use and develop land in the Russian Far East, if its not a big deal now, why was it a big deal for so long? If Israel needs more land and its not being used or developed let them use it. Hopefully when the Palestinians get their state and have something to lose things will get better for them and have a positive influence in Lebanon too.

[sharncedar]

Israel is a fantasy, an attempt by modern humans to create Bible playland, as if they were living 3000 years ago. As such, it doesn''t even exist now, let alone can Israel survive, it is nothing more than a fantasy in the mind of rich Americans of Jewish descent and certain blasphemous bilbe-thumping and child-humping "Christians"..

[bluestardad]

SO LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT???

WE ARE FIGHTING THE SUNNIS IN IRAQ? OR WHO EVER THREATENS OUR OIL...

WE ARE FUNDING THE SUNNIS IN LEBANON TO DESTABLIZE THAT COUNTRY???

BUSH IS SENDING AID TO ISRAEL IN THE BILLIONS...

BUSH IS SENDING AID TO THE PALESTINIANS IN THE MILLIONS THRU ISRAELI BANKS???

16 OF THE 19 HIJACKERS WERE FROM SAUDI...

CHENEY AND HALIBURTON ARE TIGHT WITH THE SAUDIS...

RUMFELD BROKERED CHEMICAL WEAPONS TO SADDAM IN THE 80S...TO FIGHT IRAN

WE ATTACHED IRAQ TO GET RID OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS...

RICHARD PEARL A DUEL PASSPORT HOLDING ISRAELI AMERICAN NEOCON IS BROKERING AN OIL DEAL WITH THE KURDS...

TURKEY IS FIGHTING THE KURDS...

BILLIONS OF AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS ARE GOING TO THE MIDDLE EAST!

4000 PLUS AMERICANS HAVE GIVEN THEIR LIVES FIGHTING A CHANGING ENEMY WHO ONE DAY CHANGES FROM ONE SIDE TO THE NEXT...AND WHOS POLITICIANS ARE ON THE TAKE AS BAD AS AMERICAN POLITICIANS ARE?

MISS NO ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE CONDI RICE IS RUNNING THE STATE DEPARTMENT!

WHO IS RUNNING THIS MIDDLE EAST TRAIN?

START WAR CRIMES NOW!

AMERICA STAND UP OR SHUT UP!

[microchip470-2009]

To galloglaigh, I have been to Israel, and from what I saw there, Muslims and Christians were fully able to get to their areas of prayer. As for Palestinians not being able to get into Israel easily, this is because Palestinians are seen as a security risk to Israel, and if you let them into the country easily, there would be many more militant attacks (maybe that''s what you want). If the US knew there was the possibility of terrorists pouring over the border from Mexico, I think you find that security would become a lot tighter in that area. Over all Israel is smart and has an effective security plan, which you can''t clearly see, are you Palestinian?