U.S. Plane Lost Panel, Kept Flying

American Airlines Investigating Why Jet Headed For Paris Ignored Loud Noises

(CBS/AP)  American Airlines is investigating how a jet bound for Paris lost a panel from its belly shortly after taking off from Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport before continuing on across the Atlantic.

Airline officials say the pilot thought the loud noises during the flight last month were due to cargo shifting, and in an internal memo they defended the crew.

A flight attendant on the April 20 trip said there was "a loud shaking noise from the belly of the plane." A few minutes later, there was another noise that "sounded like an explosion," the attendant said in an e-mail, according to Dallas television station WFAA.

The incident came to light because the flight attendants who heard the noise and felt the vibration believe their concerns were not taken seriously enough by the pilot, reports CBS News.

When the Boeing 767 landed safely in Paris after the nine-hour flight, ground crews discovered the panel about two feet by three feet and covering one of two air conditioners was gone.

In a statement, the airline said it was investigating the incident and wouldn't comment further.

"It was determined that at no time were crew or passengers at risk. The cabin never lost pressurization," the statement read.

Officials in the airline's flight department told pilots in a memo obtained by The Associated Press that the captain "did exactly what we want our captains to do."

"There was no way this crew could have known this panel had departed," said the memo from Jim Kaiser, American's manager of flight operations quality control, and Chuck Harman, the airline's fleet captain for Boeing 757 and 767 planes. "If they had known, they obviously would have returned" to DFW Airport.

According to the memo, no cockpit warning lights came on, and the pilot, who was not identified, also spoke to a maintenance technician in Fort Worth.

Kaiser and Harman, who are both pilots, said while pictures of the hole in the fuselage "are very dramatic," the passengers were never in danger.

A source at the airline, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to talk about the incident, said neither the captain nor other pilots who were on the flight as passengers noticed any unusual vibrations.

With a full load of fuel, the pilot would have been forced to circle DFW Airport while burning fuel, so he decided to keep heading toward the East Coast believing that he could make an emergency landing at any of several airports along the way, the official said.

Three hours into the flight, with no additional noises and the plane appearing to be burning fuel at a normal rate, the pilot decided the noise had probably been something shifting in the cargo hold, and he decided to continue across the Atlantic, the official said.

After the plane landed, a flight attendant snapped pictures of the missing panel, and the photos began circulating in e-mails between American Airlines employees.

Officials with the pilots' and flight attendants' unions did not immediately return messages for comment.

The incident on the Paris-bound flight occurred only a week after American canceled about 3,300 flights while it grounded its fleet of MD-80 jets to inspect electrical wiring.

[bmwx5a]

How difficult would it have been for the pilot to request a go-around past the control tower? This way someone in the tower could have used their binoculars to check the underside of the aircraft for potential problems? To continue on a cross Atlantic flight with an aircraft of this size is a totally irresponsible act by this flight crew. Jeapordizing the passengers should result in some kind of suspension for gross neligence.

[okcnfrcr]

It is way past time for the FAA to get involved with Airline safety and start overseeing the repair procedures of the airlines. Also, with this type of bang, what would be wrong with some type of inspection flight by a close airline or military jet to see if something was out of line.

[aerodog]

Yes, all aboard WAS at risk - they were just very lucky and it obviously wasn''t their time to go.

[hockeymanvt]

You folks miss the point that if they had checked this out, they would have used a bit more fuel and thus lowered the profit for the company. What is it about greed you don''t understand! ;-)

[georgew1956]

NOT NEWS

PLANE LOOSES WING AND KEEPS FLYING THATS NEWS!

[acolton1]

These Older Planes get stress fracturs from flying and altitude changes. That is why there are no more MD-1011 in Delta, United or American Airlines fleets because when they reach a certain age the either get sent to scrap or get turned into UPS or Fed-EX planes or get sent to South American or Sold off.

A little Elmers Glue and Duct Tape can fix it up and your good to go.

[randynason]

And this is right after all the planes were grounded for wiring inspections that ended up canceling all those many flights? What the hel* is wrong with this airline? I don''t think I''ll ever set foot on one of those planes again, ever.

[mljohns00]

Reminds me of that recent gun fired in the cockpit. "Nobody was ever at risk". Yeah, since nobody died this time, nobody was ever at risk.

[apilot1]

As a pilot with 3,500 hours in jet aircraft, both large and small, it would be totally irresponsible to execute a flyby of a control tower in a heavy 767 to "check out" the bottom of the aircraft. Likewise, having another airliner or military jet inspect the aircraft would be even more irresponsible. Pennsylvania Senator John Heinz died in just such an event in 1991, when a helicopter was attempting to fly formation to determine why the landing gear of his small plane wouldn''t come down. The two craft collided, killing all involved. The landing would have wrecked the airplane he was flying in, but he most likely would have walked away from the gear-up landing. This was not a serious incident and the pilot, to whom AA pays lots of money made a safe, conservative decision based on the best information available when initial indications from the lost panel subsided and all indications were normal.

[dredre2k]

A little Elmers Glue and Duct Tape can fix it up and your good to go. ~ acolton1

Hmmm, I think you''re onto something: Use of Elmer''s glue and glue sticks to repair airplanes should raise airline profits 500%! ;-) Anything to make a buck!

[apilot1]

BTW, I do NOT work for American Airlines

[culturechang]

I wonder if FAA inspectors were pulled off the job of inspecting airplanes to assist with wire tapping escort services and massage parlor raids. You safety is no concenr of the current govt. YOUR morals and lifestyle are alltogether THIER business.

[cbsblogger]

The key issue was failure of the captain to pay significant attention to unusual noises and vibrations.

The attendants were experienced members of the crew. Their perspective and concern about these odd noises should have been taken into account. Their physical location in the airframe is different from the flight deck and thus they would have a valid perspective on what noises or vibrations are usual or unusual.

Sudden onslaught of unusual noises and vibrations are primary indicators of airframe damage and can be precursors leading to catastrophic loss of flight control. The pilot said that there were no warning lights on but rarely would there be an indicator or warning light for structural failure.

American Airlines say that they want their pilots to react exactly as this pilot did...in other words take the chance instead of landing and verifying airworthiness. Thanks for the heads up CBS as I won''t be flying American.

[taylor2124]

HockeymanVT, what is it about companies and the way they stay in business that YOU don''t understand? Apparently, everything.
You capitalist haters who label every business decision as "greed" simply hate companies and profits.(Although, the airlines haven''t made a profit in YEARS).
So, let me explain things so even the first graders and the liberal anti-capitalists can understand. Here goes: a company sells goods and or services. They have to sell them for a price. That price has to include something called "profit". The company has to hire people to do something called "work". These people have jobs, which is likely a strange concept to the liberals. The company, if they make a profit, will invest that money back in the company and create more jobs. They also sell stock to people to invest in the company. If the company does well, then the employees, the stockholders, and the public all benefit. If the company does bad, they can go out of business, thus depriving ALL of us of those products and services. Nobody benefits from a company like AA from going out of business. Nobody. Last thing: there is no such thing as "greed" in business. It''s called "right pricing", and "whatever the market will bear". Got it?

[hawksprings]

Oh come on people.
How were the pilots to know that the shaking wasn''t Bill Clinton and a stewardess in the bathroom?

[pensacola88]

Access panels have fallen off before on several aircraft, both military and civilian. They are removed and installed so often that the fastening hardware fails. Planes are designed so that access panels can fall away harmlessly when their fastener hardware fails. The military learned to keep access panels from being injested in to the intake vents of the engine. Most of the worst offenders are positioned along the bottom or belly of the airframe. On propellor aircraft, they are always behind the propellors. This is not like foam pieces flying off the space shuttle external fuel tank.

Unpressurized planes have taken off with their doors open and remain safe in flight.

The report is far over-sensationalized. It occurs more often than most know. Fortunately, it is not like dangerous road debris on the hiway coming off other cars and trucks.

[tucano2]

Obviously the Pilot distained information from Flight Attendants, demonstrating an arrogance towards his betters.

[olebd]

Let''s face it. Pilots are nothing more than glorified bus drivers.

[maharishi1]

Bush fault!!

[extradition]

Let''''s face it. Pilots are nothing more than glorified bus drivers. -olebd

----



You''re a moron.

[Syndicate]

Looks like the pilot knew what he was doing. They made it to Paris.

[haoli25]

I guess that one slipped past the American plane inspections. I hope this will convince more people to avoid American Airlines...they are nothing more than a cattle car with wings.

[gheemaster38]

To some it up:

Since the plane made it and no one was killed -that is company procedure

IF the plane had crashed and burn- Pilot error..

[gheemaster38]

Let me correct this before the literary majors attack:

To SUM things up:

Since the plane made it and no one was killed -that is company procedure

IF the plane had crashed and burn- Pilot error..

[mjm121]

According to the memo, no cockpit warning lights came on, and the pilot, who was not identified, also spoke to a maintenance technician in Fort Worth


That is the scariest part of all this to me. No warning light???

[darthluke12694]

Look. The pilot could not of done anything. No lights came on and there is no way to see what is under the plane. Everything was functioning normal. What else is he supposed to do.

[txgrouch2004]

holycow9 wrote:
hillary would have been the first one out in a parachute.
----------
And she would have thrown out all the OTHER parachutes first...

[lochlan-2009]

The incident came to light because the flight attendants who heard the noise and felt the vibration believe their concerns were not taken seriously enough by the pilot,"

Looks like the flight attendant was right about the pilot. But what does some silly flight attendant know, they didn''t spend a few years getting their pilots license.

[txgrouch2004]

mjm21 wrote:
No warning light???
---------
Why should there be a warning light? Does a warning light come on if a hubcap falls off your car? That''s about what happened here.

There was no decompression. There was no threat to structural integrity, stability, controllability, lift, or thrust.

It was pretty much a non-event, just a lot of journalistic hype.

A.k.a. a SLOW NEWS DAY...

How long before someone on the ground comes out of the woodwork to sue the airline because this piece of metal came screaming out of the sky and through their roof and landed between Ma and Pa in their living room.
That''s one sure cure for constipation, it sure would scare the *** out of me!!!

[redveg]

Hub cap my a$$, they put those panels there to protect the internal stuff from the 550 MPH winds and to protect the aerodynamics of the craft, not to pretty up the wheels. If there were no danger, then why did they say "If they had known, they obviously would have returned"

[oldpilot954]

This incident looks bad but the reality is that people on the ground were in more danger than those on the plane. The mechanic who installed the panel and the inspector who checked it will get hosed and may loose their jobs and/or certificates. One side of me agrees with that but the other side says it is a much more systemic problem than a mechanic''s oversight. What aviation safety really needs is to start charging customers what it costs to operate and make a profit. Instead the industry is running year after year on the edge of bankruptcy. I think AA pays a little better but I know mechanics with 4-year college degrees making less than $35K per year in an industry where it is ILLEGAL to make an honest mistake and there is no statute of limitations. If you sign it off today you are responsible until someone else repeats it or the plane is scrapped. Consequently, it is hard to find and keep enough qualified mechanics to assure safety. The FAA, like all other Govt agencies, seems to think that piles of paper work are sufficient to replace skill, integrity, and common sense. More FAA oversight usually means pulling one of your skilled people off the shop floor to do paperwork.

[secrets6]

why do they always say,
''at no time were the passengers at risk''!
what utter nonsense.!

[mjm121]

Why should there be a warning light? Does a warning light come on if a hubcap falls off your car? That''''s about what happened here.

There was no decompression. There was no threat to structural integrity, stability, controllability, lift, or thrust.

It was pretty much a non-event, just a lot of journalistic hype.

A.k.a. a SLOW NEWS DAY...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by txgrouch2004 at 04:58 PM : May 08, 2008


No, a warning light does not come when my hub cap comes off. That said, at 30,000 feet, I think a warning light should come on anytime something is wrong. And if you read the article, it said no warning lights came on. Now, I don''t know if they exist for a panel like this, but it almost sounds like there might be? I honestly don''t know.

[redveg]

While I agree that there are under paid employees and poor company profits, it has nothing to do with what they charge us; the AA execs that screwed the mechanics took hom 9 digit bonuses. Instead of charging us more, they need to spread the wealth a little. They also need to run their company better. Some of the cheaper airlines are actually making profit.

[oldpilot954]

RedVeg -- I somewhat agree with you but what is killing older airlines now is old equipment and high fuel prices. Then there is a competitor who under-cuts ticket prices because he has protection from his debts due to bankruptcy.
There are a few exceptions but most of those "cheaper airlines" that I know of pay their First Officers $20-25K per year. Their employees only stay long enough to get another job.

[txgrouch2004]

mjm121 wrote
Now, I don''''t know if they exist for a panel like this, but it almost sounds like there might be? I honestly don''''t know.
---------
No, there is no warning light. None is needed.

Based on the fact that the pilot didn''t even notice a problem and the plane CROSSED AN OCEAN without it, I''d say that proves the panel was mainly just there to keep dust and water out of the equipment and, yes, to improve the appearance of the plane.

IT WAS A HUBCAP. It''s that simple.

And yes, the mechanic and inspector who fouled up and forgot to tighten the screws WILL GET SCREWED, possibly permanently. As similar mistake caused a fatal crash in another case.

But in this case, there was no harm done. A SLOW NEWS DAY, that''s all.

[timdgrim]

It''s really AA way of getting rid of extra weight so they can save on fuel. Pretty soon they''ll take the seats out and have everybody sit on a pillow. (Pillow $5 extra)

[jtormey3]

The Bobby Sturgell FAA: (A) continues to subject Americans to a steady stream of aircraft near-misses and near-disasters in epic numbers since Bobby Sturgell took over as Acting FAA Administrator half-a-year ago;(B) tells us that it is OK for an agency and airlines working together to enlist publicists to tell Americans that air travel was never safer whilst planes are falling apart in un-inspected disrepair, and passengers are continually put in harm%u2019s way; (C) is a revival of the Oberstar-decried, Schiavo-decried Tombstone Agency, the notion that %u2018If the plane doesn''t crash, we''re doing great%u2019; the notion that a federal agency is not required to anticipate and navigate around safety problems, but only react if there is a tombstone.

The talent pool is deeper than this. There is more to leadership than wearing aviator glasses. We have an ugly aviation safety crisis on our hands. Let''s wash our hands of it. Let%u2019s wash our hands of Bobby Sturgell and his failed administration. The FAA%u2019s cozy relationship with the airlines and the agency''s abject failure to regulate must end NOW. We again ask all members of the United States Congress to Just Say No to Bobby Sturgell.

[mediapreachr]

Pieces flying from the aircraft-translation-everyone in the airline business is cutting corners(some more than others).
Everything should be OK though-they have enough money left for the lobbyists in DC.

[gce65]

what are they supposed to do in mid flight, go outside and check?

[glock4me]

Recall back in the 1980s that an Aloha Airlines flight turned into a "convertable" in mid flight, but was able to land. Aircraft structures are very robust and can take a lot of damage and survive. However, if you loose an aerodynamic surface (rudder, flap, etc.) you are in deep ***.

Seems like the biggest danger in this case was potentially to someone on the ground being hit by the pannel. Wonder where it went? I didn''t see any mention in the article.

[adasher1]

mediapreachr, I agree 100%......also enough money to fly the planes to Mexio for the work to be done there instead of being done by skilled ''high dollar'' Americans.....there WILL be more of this....and worse, to come if they do not stop worring about the all mighty dollar....American Airlines CEO made over $6.6 million last year...nice work......must be nice to get that type of $$ and still suck...

[armadillo01]

Keep an eye on the National Enquirer -- they''ll have an article soon on -Aliens Decapitate Cow in Texas--..

[rushman71]

armadillo01: I''m sure they already have had an article with that title. Watch, they''ll have one titled "Gremlins Trained to Fly Planes, not Destroy it, by United Airlines". Hey, they love to fly, and it shows!!!

[toolmangler-2009]

This just in: Airplane takes off, flies 700 miles and lands safely

[atlanta30326]

In light of what happened on this flight, it reminds me of a good thing. It stinks that all flights are now non-smoking, but I can usually get away with blowing the smoke out the gaping rusted holes in the plane''s fuselage.