Judge May Make CIA Torture Memo Public

ACLU Lawsuit Prompted A Federal Judge To Examine The Controversial Document

(AP)  The CIA must let a judge view a 2002 memo purportedly including waterboarding among interrogation methods to be used on prisoners in U.S. custody so he can decide whether it should be made public, the judge ruled Thursday.

U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein issued the order after he had earlier said the 18-page memo did not have to be turned over to the American Civil Liberties Union because it was protected by attorney-client privilege. The ACLU said it believes the memo includes a section addressing the subject of waterboarding, which simulates drowning.

Hellerstein said he reconsidered his ruling after hearing from both sides again on the subject. The CIA must turn the item over for review on Monday.

Rebekah Carmichael, a spokeswoman for government lawyers representing the CIA, said the government had no immediate comment.

Hellerstein said he realized he did not give sufficient consideration to an earlier court ruling related to the legal issue and to ACLU evidence indicating all or parts of the memo may have been incorporated into or used to justify official practice and policy.

The ACLU praised the decision, saying the memo written by the Department of Justice's Office of Legal Counsel is critical to the public debate over treatment of detainees because it specified brutal interrogation techniques including waterboarding.

Jameel Jaffer, director of the ACLU National Security Project, said no Department of Defense memo made public so far has included a section addressing waterboarding.

"There are still significant gaps in the story of how U.S. interrogators came to use torture and this memo is a critical piece of this story," Jaffer said.

"We think that the public has a right to see the documents that provided a basis for the CIA's torture program," he said. "We know that interrogators waterboarded prisoners and subjected prisoners to other forms of torture. There's no legitimate reason why the basis for those interrogation practices should be withheld."

The order came as a result of a lawsuit brought in October 2003 by the ACLU and other civil rights groups seeking to use the Freedom of Information Act to get records concerning the treatment of prisoners in U.S. custody abroad. So far, more than 100,000 pages of government documents have been released as a result.

D_Dey, I definitely agree, the president is NOT as all-powerful as most want to believe, BUT, he does have his hand on the tiller, he can guide the boat to the right direction. Allowing torture is not our way. I have said this in an other post and I will always believe it.

It would be nice that our Gitomo interrogators could out-think their charges. If they cant, then get smarter interrogators. Torture never did anyone any good. The info acquired by torture has never been viable. People who are tortured say whatever is needed to have the torture stop. In my 21 years in the Service, I have never heard of anyone having good intel from this kind of source that operators (combat troops) would stake their lives on.

Also, we depend upon that one unalienable right, the right of Habeas Corpus, to keep us free. We cannot afford to let anyone suspend that right, for any reason. If we do, it is a very slippery slope to fall down to Hitlers level. The act of secret prisons defeats that right.

[d_dey-2009]

Our president is NOT as all-powerful as some of you liberals think he is! He almost cannot DO anything without Congress backing it. THAT INCLUDES going to war! YOUR Liberal Congress APPROVED the war in Iraq which makes them every bit as guilty of starting that war as GW! The democrats are just using the war as a tool to gain votes at the expense of their ignorant followers! If your spoiled-brat liberal Congress would stop stone-walling GW every time he TRIED to do something great for this nation, it would be a much better place to live today! Instead, they just blame him for a war that THEY had a hand is starting as well, punish him for not signing their ridiculous bills by NOT signing HIS and are actually obstructing progress in this nation so they can blame it on him ... GW!

THAT is the truth folks!

[prinzowhales]

''W'' is just the front man...a "flak catcher"...a lightning rod for criticism of policies that were drawn up in think tanks, discussed by, and approved by, the "Masters of the Universe" and but into operation with the approval of Congress with its usual mix of culpable scoundrels and gullible fools.

Bush will be made goat for the failure of these policies and the public relations machine of the Oligarchy--ABCNBCCBSFOXCNNPBS--will go into action protecting the parties responsible...the ''failures'' of the system...the imperial presidency... ''institutional problems''...blah-blah-blah-----blah-blah...Monkey chow to feed the inquiring minds of the ''educated'' readers of TIME, NEWSWEEK, NEW YORK TIMES and the like...

...anything to disguise the real villains in this affair...the Anglo-American Oligarchy and their international associates pursuing world domination for themselves using your blood and your money.

''W'' is irrelevant...it is among the members of his self-described political "base"--the rich and the super-rich--that you will find the real authors of this bloody disaster. Chastizing them severely will be the first step of any real renewal of America.

[impeach_w]

The Judge already denined it once. At least he is reconsidering. Let''s keep our fingers crossed.

I would never drink anyone''s kool-aid. I am a registered republican, think for myself and don''t believe the current or next president or their alternatives can undue the damage that those evil jokes in the White house have already done to our country.

Put it this way: If some space aliens landed tomorrow, I''d likely vote for them. It seems a lot of the humans don''t deseve to live here anymore.

[ajayvee]

Does anyone here really believe for a minute that this judge will find the b*lls to actually publish this memo? So the IRS suddenly discovers errors in his tax returns? So the Justice Department discovers he visited a wh*reho*se 20 years ago? NO! He''ll find some reason for non-publication, you watch.

[lefeaoux]

impeach_w, go ahead and drink some more koolaid dude!

[impeach_w]

Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with THE TORTURERS, or you are with the terrorists.

I agree Frenchy, go ahead-do it. Let it become public knowledge and afterward, we put the torturers on trial for actual war crimes and then execute or imprison them also. If you torture, you should be them enemy or every true Patriotic American as are "the terrorists". If you torture, you have become that which we are fighting against.

PS. A "terrorist" fights unarmed civilians, If you fight the armed military you are something else (guerrilla, militia, irregular, resistance etc).

Why are we in Iraq again anyway? WMD? NO!
It was a personal vendetta because Saddam tried to kill W''s Daddy. That is what this was about.

"I don''t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don''t care. It''s not that important. It''s not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, responding to a question about bin Laden%u2019s whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

[lefeaoux]

LMAO! Okay, it IS on military.com.

http://shock.military.com/Shock/search.do;jsessionid=F05009D143B398D753451BB74A56EF00?skw=top+20 shocks&submit.x=0&submit.y=0&submit=GO

Enter that address into your browser and search for it. There are TONS of other cool war footage vids on there as well. Have fun!

[lefeaoux]

Correction, it is not at military.com, it is on another site. I will find it and post a link here so all of you TRUE Americans can watch it.

[lefeaoux]

LOLOL. There is a REALLY cool video on military.com that these idiot rag-heads actually began filming themselves. They were planning a "surprise" attack on an American outpost and the video shows them planning it, saying their prayers and yelling that "uyahlalalalalalalala" shiite. Then, they all hop into a car and a truck and head-out to kill the infidel Americans. They get within about 600-700 yds of the outpost and the stupid bastarges couldn''t even get out of their vehicles before our soldiers were cutting them down like jack rabbits. The guy carrying the camera begins to run away and they pop him in the back and all you hear is a faint "ayargggggg" and he and the camera hit the ground. It is a COOL, COOL video that shows WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING TO THOSE IDIOTS that dare mess with us over there! You all should go watch it ... it is VERY entertaining! It is on military.com in the top 2o selections.

[lefeaoux]

What these democraps fail to realize is that these Islamic whack-jobs are NEVER going to "play-fair" and they are NEVER going to stop what they are doing OR leave us alone no matter what we do! They will NEVER cooperate with the U.N. (big surprise there). They (Islamic Terrorists) are focusing on us right now because we are scaring them and are a definite threat to their organizations. We have them on the run (despite democrap propaganda that suggests otherwise)and that is why they have begun to plead to the LIBERAL WHACK-JOBS in this country to elect a president that will withdrawal our troops and leave them alone. They are desperate. Only a moron wouldn''t be able to see that!

[lefeaoux]

Hmmm, Islamic terrorists cut-out the eyes of our soldiers, torture them WITH NO RESTRICTIONS whatsoever, force them to admit to false war crimes and saw their heads off with dull saws and throw them into the street so their kids can play soccer with them and the democraps think that WE are out of line for torturing THEM?

We need to torture them WITH THE MOST OUTLANDISH, CRUEL METHODS WE CAN THINK OF! You think I am going to feel sorry for any of those rag-headed idiots? NOT IN THIS LIFETIME!

[impeach_w]

I bet the basics are:
Waterboarding is legal as long as it is not used to "torture" (undefined). It''s legal because of the MOTIVE. You can''t do it for the sake of doing it. Just understand there is a differce between a punishment and a negative reinforcement.
It will say it can only be used when authorized by top administration, for a specific amount of time and
in certain circumstances after the other harsh methods have failed.
It will say it is ok as long as it is used for the specific purpose of: making detainees think they are in another country where is this act is legal and anything goes (false flag).
I t will say it can be combined with a chest slap which is legal for the specific purpose of:
creating a situation where you can''t hold your breath past the maximum authorised time limit.

I''d wager 3-5 minutes is what is authorised since no one has made it much longer than 2 minutes.
Any bets?

[mcvet]

Ricknuber and McVet, I need you guys to clear up a coule of things, McVet calls fellow conservative American citizens nazi fascists which are completely differnt than stalinist socialists. Which are we? Do you understand the difference?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by notblue at 12:51 PM : May 09, 2008
+ report abuse

Can''t speak for the other guy but I base MY view on SOLID FACTS obtained during the Fuhrer''s rule which have been submitted to several Political Scientist. Sieg Heil Bush

[kansas1946]

"There are things that the government does that the public doesn''''''''t need to know about.."
Posted by cornbiker at 10:32 AM : May 09, 2008

Spoken like a true Stalinist. Please enlighten us as to the sort of things, specifically in a representative democracy, the public doesn''''t need to know about?

You obviously have a very loose grasp on the whole "of, by and for the people" thing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by RickNuber at 12:17 PM : May 09, 2008
************************************

Amen, Rick. Don''t the sheep amaze you sometimes, how they glibly brush off the constitutional protections that a whole lot of people died for establishing this free nation. These are the same types that would ratting out their neighbors under Stalin, for the "good" of the country. Sad.

[newsjunky5]

Didn''t Bush Sr. call someone a "Card carrying member of the ACLU" in an insinuation that the ACLU is communist, to smear them?

"Now read the FIRST line in that Document. It say''''s.. "WE the PEOPLE of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union..." WE the PEOPLE are the Government.."
OMG, all that talk about the people''s this and that, and unions and such, sounds like communism, too. In fact, having a greedy despotic leader who ignores The Constitution and the desires of the people on that government is probably the farthest thing from communism. Wouldn''t you agree, notblue?
PS: I''m not a communist or neocon, just like spinning the absurd into something wearable.

[l8c6]

Ricknuber and McVet, I need you guys to clear up a coule of things, McVet calls fellow conservative American citizens nazi fascists which are completely differnt than stalinist socialists. Which are we? Do you understand the difference?

Posted by notblue

If your mind is receptive to truth you will seek it and find that extremism is often the ill. Old style republicans are being labeled liberal by the warped right wing privatizing elite global capitalist one world order neo con fascist modern day republicon.

[ioweign]

LIBS are more concerned with lynching a U.S. President

Posted by mbcsmith at 10:01 AM : May 09, 2008

And how much did the GOP and Ken Starr spend on a blue dress ?

[notblue]

Ricknuber and McVet, I need you guys to clear up a coule of things, McVet calls fellow conservative American citizens nazi fascists which are completely differnt than stalinist socialists. Which are we? Do you understand the difference?

[ioweign]

There are things that the government does that the public doesn''t need to know about..

Posted by cornbiker at 10:32 AM : May 09, 2008

Hmmm - deja vu for the last 7+ years and let me guess who gets to decide what goes public...

And we invaded Iraq to spread this kind of "democracy"...