Philly Police Probe Beating Caught On Tape

6 Officers Removed From Street Duty; Commissioner: Behavior On Video "Unacceptable"

(CBS/AP)  One police sergeant and five officers were removed from street duty Wednesday as authorities investigated television footage that showed a group of police officers kicking, punching and beating three suspects during a traffic stop.

More than a dozen officers were involved in the response, but Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey said investigators were having the videotape enhanced to help determine how many of them were actually striking the suspects. Police are also relaying their information to the district attorney's office, which will determine if charges are warranted.

"We certainly are concerned about what we saw on the tape," Ramsey said at a news conference. "The behavior that at least was exhibited on the tape is unacceptable."

Ramsey said it was too early to say what kind of discipline the might be warranted. He told CBS' The Early Show that should the district attorney's office throw the case back to the police department, "I'll take appropriate action," adding that he'd judge each officer involved individually.

Police stopped the suspects' car while investigating a triple shooting in the city's Hunting Park neighborhood Monday night. No weapons were found in the car or on the suspects, Ramsey said, but officers said they had witnessed them shoot three people on a drug corner moments earlier.

The video, shot by WTXF-TV from a helicopter, shows three police cars stopping a car on the side of a road. Officers gather around the vehicle and pull three men out. About a half-dozen officers hold two of the men on the ground on the driver's side. Both are kicked repeatedly, while one is seen being punched; one also appears to be struck with a baton.

On the other side of the car, the video shows another group of officers kicking a third man who ends up on the ground.

The three suspects - Dwayne Dyches, Brian Hall and Pete Hopkins, all of Philadelphia - were each charged with attempted murder and related counts in connection with the earlier shooting, police said.

Hopkins' father, Pete, told The Early Show he thinks the officers involved in the beating should be arrested, saying they used "brute force."

"One of them could have been killed," Hopkins said.

The beating happened two days after the fatal shooting of a Philadelphia policeman, the third city officer slain on duty in two years. Ramsey said that officers have been on edge Officer Stephen Liczbinski was slain, but that they still need to maintain a high standard of conduct.

Police are not saying the three men were connected to the police officer's murder, but the killing, the third in two years, weighs heavily on the minds of every Philadelphia cop, CBS News correspondent Randall Pinkston reports.

"There's no excuse for not concucting ourselves properly," Ramsey told CBS News. "There's a lot of stress, a lot of tension."

He added, however that, "The sergeant should have taken some kind of action to intervene."

Liczbinski was shot with an assault rifle after a robbery in the city's Port Richmond section on Saturday. One man was fatally shot by police soon after, another was arrested Sunday and a third was captured late Wednesday.

One expert on the use of police force said the law gives officers broad leeway.

Eugene O'Donnell, a professor of law and police studies at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said supervisors would likely review the tape to see if there were signs that the suspects were acquiescing even as they were being beaten.

"It is certainly far from unheard of that somebody who was compliant engages in a fatal attack," said O'Donnell, a former prosecutor and police officer in New York. "Until somebody is handcuffed and secured, they could be a threat."

O'Donnell also said that the sheer number of homicides in the city - nearly 400 last year - is enough to put officers on edge.

"If you let your guard down, you can get yourself very seriously hurt," he said. "In the back of your mind, sure it's a city where anybody can get killed. Three days before that, your colleague got killed."

D. Scott Perrine, an attorney for the three suspects, has said that, as terrible as the officer's death was, it does not excuse for what police did to the three men. Dyches suffered a welt on his head the size of a baseball and that one of his legs was seriously injured, Perrine said. He said he didn't know the extent of the other men's injuries.

The mother of one of the suspects said she was outraged.

"I'm horrified to see that our city cops would beat some human being like they did, like a gang-style fight," Leomia Dyches said. "I'd actually like to see them in the criminal justice system. I'd like to see them tried for what they did."

[trenticus-2009]

Curious why the three guys were running in the first place?

[acolton1]

Just another case of the heavy handed police doing what they do best is assult you and then put you in jail and then blame it on somebody else. I bet if they would have shot the guy 50 times this would not even be in the news.

[antoniof123]

Curious why the three guys were running in the first place?

Posted by trenticus at 08:07 AM : May 08, 2008

It does not matter why they were running the laws are for everyone.

[notblue]

THe POLICE witnessed these criminals gun down aanother human being. THey were guilty that''s why they fled, lucky they weren''t gunned down, the police had every right. The police showed incredible restraint as these criminals were allowed to live.

""Please remember to kill or violate the civil rights of minorities ONLY. If you are rude to a white person ............."" then it is not newsworthy.

[payasyougo]

Did the truck have Texas plates?

That might explain the Philly reaction...

[ann3332]

These police officers should be ashamed of themselves it makes the good one look bads.They should be charge for what they did. again shame on these officers

[notblue]

Leftwing libs=sympathy for the devil, criminals, terrorists anyone but righteous Americans.

[pollroller1]

As I''ve said before, those were just love kicks. They were just showing their love for those guys that''s all.

[vmcneal2]

THe POLICE witnessed these criminals gun down aanother human being. THey were guilty that''''s why they fled, lucky they weren''''t gunned down, the police had every right. The police showed incredible restraint as these criminals were allowed to live.


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Posted by notblue at 09:16 AM : May 08, 2008


In America the police arrest people suspected of a crime. In this case the police conduct was completly out of line. I''m all for law and order and if these guys did the crime they should be punished, but that''s for the courts to decide, not the police.

[eferrell1]

They should be fired for being stupid. Everybody with half a brain knows there are cameras everywhere!

[nolalou]

The police showed incredible restraint as these criminals were allowed to live. Posted by notblue

That''s your definition of ''restraint'', that they allowed the suspects to live? First, there were no weapons found on the suspects, so we only have the officers word that they got the right people! Second, the beatings went on even after all suspects were secured. their own police Commissioner said this behavior was at the very least ''unacceptable''.

It seems that people don''t understand that its stuff like this that makes people hate cops and then they end up getting shot. How would you feel if your brother was killed on his wedding day while not doing anything wrong and no one was punished for it. I would definitely want to fatally hurt one of those cops. I can bet that the three men were black and we all know blacks will never get fair treatment.

"The three suspects - Dwayne Dyches, Brian Hall and Pete Hopkins, all of Philadelphia - were each charged with attempted murder and related counts in connection with the earlier shooting, police said."
Some of you need to learn how to read and comprehend. Where did it say that cops witnessed these men gunning down anyone? Even though they are "guilty until proven innocent," THEY ARE SUSPECTS.

[goinginsane2]

What no one is talking about is what happened prior the the stop. . Why would a helicopter be flying over a "typical" traffic stop. . Did the guys run? what were the chain of events leading up to the stop? I understand the guys were arrested and charged with attempted murder. . So did the officers radio in for the stop and then all the units converged including the helo, and then stop them? Everyone is making comments only about what happened after the stop but no one is talking about or viewing any video of before the stop. . .

[displeased]

Some of you need to learn how to read and comprehend. Where did it say that cops witnessed these men gunning down anyone?
Posted by keisha11213

The statement below is in the 5th paragraph:

"No weapons were found in the car or on the suspects, Ramsey said, but officers said they had witnessed them shoot three people on a drug corner moments earlier."

[notblue]

vmcneal2, LOL! Typical lib!

[redveg]

What happened before the stop is irrelevant. They claim that these three guys did something, which means they have to arrest them and prove it in court. If we let the police be judge, jury, and executioner, then we have lost all meaning of the United States of America. If the police are telling the truth, then they are still in the wrong and should go to prison just like anyone else who commits the crime that they committed; but so far the evidence doesn%u2019t even back up their story. If they truly witnessed them shooting, and if they saw them well enough for a certain identity, then why didn%u2019t they see what happened to the gun(s).

[displeased]

It doesn''''t justify the behavior of the police to nearly beat some "human" being to death and think its ok.
Posted by zoe2006

I''m not sure how they can justify their behavior. I just can''t figure any reason to beat somebody while they''re being held down. I guess we''ll hear their side eventually, after they have time to modify their stories. I doubt if any will admit they have anger management issues.

[mexinvasion]

Just think. None of this would have been a controversy if it hadn''t been filmed.

[cwhatiknow]

Lets say these gentlemen were coming from a shooting that the cops observed, what happen at the shooting that they were not arrested at the scene. There were no guns found in the car or on the men. So if the cops seen them shooting, where are the guns. Oh yeah and if the cops were at the scene i''m sure they were observing the gentlemen leaving the scene, so where are the guns? To me this sounds like another excuse for the cops. And whats up with the high behind bails? They really don''t want any one to see how bad the beat those gentlemen up.

[displeased]

None of this would have been a controversy if it hadn''''t been filmed.
Posted by MexInvasion

Good point. How many other beatings go unreported or are concealed due to police "justification"?

[bostonpaul14]

Hey, 11213 K, Ramsey said, but officers said they had witnessed them shoot three people on a drug corner moments earlier

What about the college girls on tape beating that girl up? THEY are in trouble right? Assault and battery is illegal. The police have no right to beat on people unless it is in self defense or the suspect is trying to get away and needs to be subdued. The officers "holding" the suspect down should have put the cuffs on him and that is the end of it.
RedVeg has it right! In an unrelated story, in my home town of Hull, the police are now conducting
"PRACTISE" lock-downs where they are actually "SEARCHING" students, without probable cause,
(because it is a ''practise'' lockdown right?) and arresting students if they find anything! This is in clear violation of the rules of search and seizure. The police are supposed to follow the law just like you and I. I wish CBS NEWS would look into this.

[cwhatiknow]

What shooting are the cops talking about? If they really witness them at a shooting trust and believe we would of heard about it and the officers would not be on DESK DUTY!! This is a prime example of a cover up that people be talking about.

[vmcneal2]

Do you want to know the secret to not getting your *** kicked by the cops after you shoot someone... Don''''t shoot anyone. Simple. Obey the Friggin law.


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Posted by guyfrompa45 at 09:56 AM : May 08, 2008

Nobody likes people who shoot people. At the time of the police beating these guys were "suspects" and we can''t allow our police to act like thugs. We don''t want to turn America into a police state.

[lochlan-2009]

"but officers said they had witnessed them shoot three people on a drug corner moments earlier"

If you believe that these people shot someone in front of police officers, I have ocean front property for sale in Arizona. Quite obviously the police are lieing (nothing new), now it''s the DA''s turn to show where his loyalties lie, the victemized citizen or crooked, abusive cops.

Why haven''t these officers been fired. They clearly have shown already they don''t warrant the responsibility to wear those badges. If it was up to me, all abuses of authority would triple your sentence on your charges.

FIRE THEM, CHARGE THEM, AND PUT THEM IN JAIL!!!

[prinzowhales]

A real investigation would have revealed if the suspects had fired a weapon prior to their arrest. As a matter of fact, such a test should have already been made and the results reported...If the testing was not done, it tells us that the Philly cops do not believe their own story...if it was done, it tells us that more than likely it was negative...otherwise, it would have been released to bolster the government case for detaining the suspects. Now, what is the status of the paraffin tests?

[waganupa]

We need laws. Don''t blame the police for all the crime, and get BOTH sides of the story before passing judgment. For those of you who do not know, there are drugs that can make the average person strong enough to break their own bones struggling. The police must deal with this without anything except the "law" on their side. I have seen, while I was waiting in the emergency room, a small young man on drugs, break loose from 4 police officers and run out of the building. The officers could not shoot or restrain this person. They had to let him go. People do drugs; they buy and sell - and all of this goes down with violence and death. Drug dealers get shot and shoot people. The sooner we face this the better off we will all be. The police have a nearly impossible job, however this does not excuse them from breaking the law. So, what do we do? Deny it all and get angry when we see violence in the news? It seems like this is all our culture can do for now. No one seems to be grappling with WHY we have a drug problem in this country in the first place.

[dat1guysd]

whether or not those guys were seen shooting someone, they still have rights, if the police involved get just a slap on the wrist i hope the citizens of Philly riot. this one is obviously going too get people stirred up.

"Can''t we all just get along?"

[notblue]

dragonwagon5, of course your giving the criminal shooters the benefit of doubt while assuming the police are in the wrong just like the way you blame America for the crimes of the Muslim extremists, that''s the leftwing way.

[bobnjersey]

[We don''''t want to turn America into a police state.]
[Posted by vmcneal2 at 11:22 AM : May 08, 2008]

it''s already there.

[goinginsane2]

I bet all the same people doing all the crying for them are the same ones that don''t think it is right to whip and/or punish children "gee wonder why he acts that way" My children get punished when they do wrong and praised when they do right and when my friends and family are around they always compliment how well behaved they are. I got my butt tore up as a kid and let me tell, I believe it makes a difference.

Do I think these officers over-did it. . Yes I do Do I think officers have a need to use force. . ABSOLUTELY. . My father was an officer for years and I can tell you some crazy stories about guys hopped up on drugs and still going after being shot three or more times and some even crazier ones.

[bobnjersey]

[dragonwagon5, of course your giving the criminal shooters the benefit of doubt while assuming the police are in the wrong just like the way you blame America for the crimes of the Muslim extremists, that''''s the leftwing way.]
[Posted by notblue at 12:57 PM : May 08, 2008]

here ... let me explain it to you.

right thinkers are ''ends justify means'' types ... and generally see things with a self interested perspective. right thinkers are like ''glass is half full'' types.

left thinkers would never justify means w/ the ends ... and generally see things from others perspective. left thinkers are like ''glass is half empty'' types.

right thinkers see the state of something ... and are ok with it as long as it serves them ... regardless of how complete it might be ... it''s good/right because it''s good/right for them. right thinkers are content w/ the glass being only half full ... cause they see it as their half of the glass.

left thinkers see the state of something ... and aren''t content until they see it in a state where it''s fair for all. left thinkers aren''t content w/ the glass being half full ... they''re past the part of the glass that''s full ... they''re focusing on the half that''s empty ... wanting to make that right (full) as well.

glass is half empty types are typically labeled as negative or cynical ... but in reality they just have a higher standard for what''s acceptable.

do you understand now?

[willymack]

Parts of Philly are in a constant war Zone. Drugs, automtic weapons, murders etc. One of the commentors mentioned no human being should be treated like the men assaulted by the police officers. This statement assumes that the beaten ones were in fact human beings. My guess is probably not. More than likely they and others like them have murdered innocent people and police officers. There is only one way to stop drugs. Give the pusher two choices, death or life in prison if he names his source. Arrest the source and give him the same choice. In a short period of time you will reach the king pins and the drug problem will be erased. I think I could live in that kind of police state, quite nicely.

[far_point200]

Hmmm... I wonder what the set the cops off?

No donuts in the area?

Or law abiding Philly citizens accidentally breaking a minor city ordinance.

Or maybe just some punks asking for a good arse whipping?

[prinzowhales]

The CIA drug planes--one with 5.5 tons of cocaine on board-- captured in Mexico, of course, has nothing to do with the street corner dealers in the US that everyone is so gung ho on destroying. It was tied to renditions as well...even better reason for good little Americans to ignore its existence while calling for strong-arm tactics on America''s streets.

[bobnjersey]

["In many authoritarian regimes the prosecution case is, in practice, believed by default unless the accused can prove they are innocent, a practice called presumption of guilt."]
[Posted by lochlan at 01:27 PM : May 08, 2008]

those remaining that support gwb and his view of the world are known as ''authoritarian followers''. their leaders are referred to as ''authoritarian leaders''. the followers will believe anything that their leaders say ... never question ... never doubt. their leaders know this ... and leverage it to their advantage in all that they do and say.

gwb and his gang are ''authoritarian leaders'' ... and the remaining 30% or so of those that tirelessly support their policies are ''authoritarian followers''.

this is generally viewed as a personality profile (some might say disorder) and is well documented.

many of the online posters both here on cbs ... and on the internet at large are text book examples of these profiles.

here''s one source where this dynamic is outlined well:

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

other sources for this are titles written by george lakoff (prof of linguistics ucb), and in the book ''conservatives without conscience'' by john dean.

[willymack]

Unlike some, I am not paranoid about a police state. I suppose some of us still call the police when a crime is in progress while others call the local drug king pin and pay him off to help. If there were only 2 or three police involved here, you might have reason to believe they are racists. But it looks like a lot of cops were highly pissed off so I suspect the poor innocent victims were not simply speeding. Wake up.

[prinzowhales]

Prinzowhales- You never seize to amaze me what an ****ole you really are.
Posted by guyfrompa45 at 01:05 PM : May 08, 2008
------------------------------
So, you have some kind of objection to the parrifin test, but are afraid to express it? (Why is that?)...instead you obtain the emotional release without the self-revelation by attacking me for bringing it up...Like a frustrated dog...biting a fence or even itself...

[prinzowhales]

Prinzowhales - actually it''''s because I see you on here constantly and your remarks and opinions are a Joke.
Posted by guyfrompa45 at 01:49 PM : May 08, 2008
--------------------------------
Once again you fail to express your objections to the parrafin test...yet, you can''t bring yourself NOT to respond...Perhaps, because the objection is not a ''Joke''...and you have no real response...beyond biting at the fence in frustration?

[gurusavant]

the residents of these kind of ''dangerous neighborhoods'' are on an violent and deadly pursuit of arming themselves and announcing their intention to declare civil war against (and killing) police, (aka ''the governemnt'' et al). they are not unorganized petty little drug dealers who need to make a dollar to get by. these groups are subversive and armed to the teeth...to the stupid who defend these killers, it looks like "oh the poor little poor man.." while if your not one of ''them'' they can care less about your life as well.

[prinzowhales]

guyfromPa45--So what is important in the case are your ''feelings''...this roadside beating really made you feel good?...Tell me, is the gratification you feel from this, of a sexual nature?

[cepe10-2009]

They all need to be fully prosecuted with multiple charges just like the criminal scumbags they are. Some were accomplices but all are very guilty.

They will get off because of the corrupt fellow officers of the court in the form of district attorneys and judges.

[Syndicate]

You know these dirty cops will walk. They always do. If a cop *** slaps you they walk. You argue with a cop you get to spend the next six months in court defending your self for "obstructing a police officer in the performance of his duties." Which is funny because I think thats one of the charges they are using against the victims.

[diazsraul]

@ 3:47 Pete Hopkins $miles without thinking that his (innocent) $on will be hit by a law suit from the person that he shot. Typical idiot. LOL!!!

[lochlan-2009]

They are already getting away with it. The people they beat were charged, but the police, "they need to look into it to see if charges need to be filed." Um, seemed pretty apparent to me 16 police officers were beating up 3 citizen. If they had murdered the president, it would still be illegal (whether the justice system ignores it or not) for them to beat up the person who did it. These "officers" have not even been charged, never mind put in jail or even fired!!!

American justice; ours, theirs, and the untouchables (the Bush Administration).

[closethippy1]

I have yet to see police officers behave like these towards rich folks or in a rich neighborhood.
It''''s true, it''''s not a matter of race but it is a matter of class.
The police across the US have always shown restraint when they patrol rich neighborhood, but that''''s not the case in poor neighborhoods.
It''''s always the poor that are looked upon as dispensable. Even during the nastiest wars rich neighborhoods for some reason are spared much of the destruction which only happens in poor and destitute areas.
We as a society need to mature beyond this point and stop devaluing people because of the little money they have.

[carpriddler]

The police gang. The police will have their own gang signs, lingo, and turf wars with other departments. The so-called brotherhood is more like the old *** Angeles. Sooner then later we will have riots like the one in L.A. in the 90''s if this keeps up.

[ranger1948]

closethippy1
I disagree with you. I always provided more service in the black neighborhoods than anywhere else because there was always more happening there. I never abused a prisoner, never saw any of my fellow officers abuse any, and i didn''t look down on the people in the black community. They needed my servive and i provided it as they also pay taxes for our service liek everyone else.