The Preacher's Wife

A Reverend's Wife Is Found Dead. Was It Suicide Or Was He Playing God?

(CBS)  But Matt found a powerful ally: Guy James Gray. Like Bill Johnston, Gray was once a high-powered prosecutor.

He said Kari's despair was spelled out in her own heartbreaking entries she wrote in her Bible after her daughter died. "Here’s a paragraph about how good Heaven is and I want to go to Kassidy," Gray pointed out.

He said that if Kari had been suffocated with a pillow or a similar object, there would be some evidence. "Some of that fiber is sucked into your lungs or nasal cavity or whatever. In the autopsy, they did not find any types of fiber," Gray said.

Asked about the abrasion on her nose, Gray said, "The first thing the emergency people did when they got there was put one of these artificial CPR deals over her mouth."

But Johnston said that the abrasion had to have been left there before Kari died and that Matt is the one who caused it.

Facing murder charges in Waco, Matt retreated to his childhood home in Kerrville, Texas. His old friends there were outraged at the accusations.

"Matt is a sweet loving caring, tender hearted person," one friend explained.

That's also how Jill Hotz, Kari's best friend, once felt about Matt. But today, she no longer believes in Matt, nor the story he tells about Kari. "I know she didn't take her own life," Jill said. "Someone with that kind of a zest for life, that kind of fight for life, she's not gonna take her own life. And she didn't do that."

Why does Jill suspect Matt? Because of a conversation Jill had with Kari just days before her death. "She was very, very upset," Jill remembered. "Crying extremely hard on the phone. And I said, 'Kari, what's wrong?' And she said, 'I think Matt is seeing someone else.' And you know how you have those moments in your life that you wish that you could just redo the whole thing? I tried to reassure her that Matt loved her. And he wouldn't do that."

And Kari told Jill that her preacher husband did something far worse - he blamed her for their child's death. "She said that Matt accused her of praying for Kassidy not to have to suffer anymore," Jill said. "And he said that God answered Kari's prayer instead of his prayer, which was for Kassidy to live to be an old lady and to have a full life."

But Matt said he never blamed Kari for Kassidy's death. "She misunderstood what I had said. I said that it hurt me that she felt her prayer was answered and mine wasn't."

But Matt had sent Kari this e-mail just days before she spoke with Jill: "I know deep down I hold a grudge against God and you for Him answering your prayer and not mine," he wrote. "In some ways, I do hold you…to blame for her death."

The day after Kari confided in Jill was the day Kari told her counselor she thought Matt was trying to kill her. The counselor confronted Matt at Kari's funeral.

Matt's reaction? "And I said, what? Well, wait, wait. And I'm like, 'What's going on here?'"

Matt denied he had any reason to kill Kari, denied cheating on her, and he insisted that the woman he spent so much time with, Vanessa Bulls, was only a friend. But he admitted that later in the summer he did want to date Vanessa.

According to Matt, Kari was suffering from severe anxiety that was apparent to everyone who saw her in the days before her death.

But 48 Hours could not find anyone who confirms that. On the contrary, even Jill said that when she last spoke to Kari, Kari said things had improved. "The day before she died, she was completely elated. And she said, 'We're trying to get everything patched back together.' She was very hopeful. Very future oriented," Jill recalled.

Those who saw Kari on her last day say her spirits were much higher than earlier in the week. Her friend Todd Monsey said she looked forward to the prospect of a new job. "She told me she had a great interview. She was excited," he recalled.

[sharoncalla]

This story has been so "heart breaking" to read, I have read it several times, trying to get the facts straight, Kassidy was said to have died of a brain tumor on March 22, 1997. Kasi Baker later died on April 8th, 2005. Kasi grieved hard for Kassidy, the astonishing thing is the "date". April 8th, within 30 days of Kassidy's death date. This woman shows me, she was in a "hell" all of her own, perhaps only while she was sleeping she could dream of Kassidy, and missing her more and more between 1999 and 2005. Finally it just took it's toll. That's why I don't think Matt is guilty. His remaining daughters need him, and he needs them, to heal, to mend. Think for a moment a child of 2, all toddlers need their mother, maybe Kasi felt "compelled" in a strong way to be with Kassidy. She trusted "all below" to care for Kensi and Grace.The mind is a very complex map, and ties emotions inward, so and the fact that Kasi wanted Matt to go get gas/get movie just get gone somewheres, is another clue, that he is not guilty. So on one other time she tried to "jump out of the car". Suicidal people attempt until they suceed. March 22, of any year was a da' ja' vu' date for Kasi, a date so profound that it was unshakeable. I hope the entire family both sides find peace, love, and understanding. I really believe everyone loved and cared for Kasi. This is just my opinon and she would want the family to be "close" rather than estranged. I hope for closure and best wishes for all of the family. SC

[JFKShannon]

Once again, you did not know Kari. The "facts" of which you speak are based on Matt's lies and not backed up by ANY fact. You are basing your feelings of innocence on what? What a man indicted for murder claims? "The fact Kasi [sic] wanted Matt to go get gas/movie..." isn't a fact. It's a claim by a man indicted for murder. The "fact" she tried to get out of a moving car isn't a fact. It's a claim by a man indicted for murder. Since she died within 30 days and 7-odd years of Kassidy shows you some "fact" that she was in a living "hell all her own" and that's proof she took her own life? I, too, am glad you are not on the jury.

Why not look at the true facts in the case to base your feelings on? You know, sometimes people on trial for murder lie to get out of being convicted. Heck, he's even been caught on video and in numerous interviews lying and changing his story. Look at the science and timelines and forensics. Those don't lie.

The only reason I can come up with for you persisting to denigrate Kari (someone you don't know) and lift Matt (someone you claim you don't know) up is that you are not completely UNinvolved in this case after all.

[csi-lover]

Here's the deal; the preacher lied as his stories changed. And another lover on the side who has now come forward to seal his fate. But what I find interesting is how he said he found his wife naked and put clothes on her. Why does a preacher kill his wife? Because he thought he was God, which he is not. This guy will be seeing hell quite soon folks, mark my words. No one has the right to kill anyone and get away with it. Not even the devil...

[sharoncalla]

Dear JFK Shannon, my apology to you, you are correct I did not know Kari, but as a mother my gut feeling is I may have "attempted suicide", had I lost a child. I would have felt that God did not love me, and my only crime in suicide would have been to be with my child. When Kari tried to open the car door and jump out, if Matt did not love her he wouldn't have stopped her, this is when I felt like he should have intervened with psychiatric care for Kari, nothing wrong with getting counseling, he should of taken her that day, but he thought she only lost it for " a moment". I am sure he feels pain, he lost a daughter and a wife, I will pray that justice prevails. The move may have been to "get away" from where the tragedy occured. Too many memories for the children. Then as a reader we are not given all the facts, but the girls will feel an added loss, if their innocent Dad is sent to prison. It will only compound to their mental health. Glad I'm not on the jury. Please once again, accept my apology. SC

[JFKShannon]

I will accept your apology, SC. And you have to accept the fact that while you don't know Kari and all you're basing your assumptions on is a few stories in the news and the 2% of evidence that has been made public, I knew Kari and saw her almost daily. I have also researched this case on MANY levels including going down to the McLennan County courthouse to review the files myself first hand. I have talked to countless family members and friends and former churchmates of Matt and Kari's. I have corresponded with people in Waco, Hewitt, Dallas, Kerrville, etc; While I obviously don't know everything (no one could), I think it's safe to say I have a better grasp on the realities and facts here so you may just have to trust me on some things. When the case goes to trial in September, you will understand.

Also note that the only person that was in that car when Matt claims Kari tried to get out while it was moving that is alive to talk about it is the man indicted for her murder. I think there is a slew of ulterior motives for him to say so many things that, well, only he can "attest" to now that Kari is dead. His statements about Kari's mood, demeanor and spirit are completely contradicted by everyone else that had contact with Kari. Completely.

Kari had a close, deep and intimate relationship with her Lord. While I know she was deeply wounded with the loss of Kassidy, she did NOT feel that God did not love her. It's a slap in her face/faith to even suggest something like that....especially when you didn't even know her. I wonder what your real motives are to speak so horribly about someone whose life was taken and that you didn't even know.

If their innocent dad is sent to prison? What if their guilty dad wasn't brought to trail and remained free? Would that bother you? I'm trying really hard to accept your apology but you just hurt Kari again and again. Why is that?

"The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them." ~LM Bujold

[hercule1122]

Everyone in this tale shares blame- the police who seemed to have done little in investigation, the medical authorities who botched the case, and a current of dumb people who said that the pastor could not harm his wife while he was seeking a new playmate for sex. Puhleeze, spare me from stupidity and idiots! The case is crystal clear for anyone who is willing to examine the details.

[virgosal]

"The truth will set you free." I'm glad Vanessa Bulls has decided to come forward and tell the truth. This is a woman with a conscience and Kari can now rest in peace. All her mother's suffering and ordeal should start to lighten and heal. The Preacher must have forgotten that there is an Unseen Hand in all of this.

[JFKShannon]

sharoncalla,
You obviously didn't know Kari. You couldn't be more off. Plus there is WAY TOO MUCH evidence to the contrary. For starters, Matt was only gone for approximately 45 minutes. She could not have consumed a bottle of pills, typed a suicide note, died, be taken by lividity and be cold enough to have died in an ice box....so say the experts....in 45 minutes. Of all of Matt's mistakes in his plan, the one that will do him in is that he didn't give himself near enough time in his timeline of the night's events. Add that in with his plethora of other mistakes and there's only one possible, realistic way this happened. And it has nothing to do with a "brain tumor."

[sharoncalla]

First of all, did this woman have a brain tumor? Which side of the family has this history?I think the puzzle may lie here. The mother felt maybe lesser of a person, lonesome for her child, and nothing could appease her, except death. Death to be in the relm where she thought her child would be. I think she loved Matt, and the two girls, but perhaps in her depression she thought she could strike a deal, ok I die and go see about Kassidy, and I leave Matt to take care of Kensi and Grace. Surely God would understand her acts of reasoning and perhaps extra pills taken caused an eventualy "build up" over time, enough to stop the heart. The body showed no acts of violence, stab wound, bullet holes, so and the death of Kassidy was real, just NOT acceptable by Kari. This was the one thing she JUST could NOT ACCEPT, and it happened. I think she sent Matt out, so he could not "intervene" with "her plan". She locked the door to keep the kids from being the ones to find her. This is tragic and I would find Matt, not guilty. I just wish he could of intervened with a psychiatrist, but even that would not have appeased Kari she explained in the note, she wanted to hold Kassidy one last time. A "My Way" type of story. Sad!!!!

[lsc--2008]

His story does not make sense. Unisom is diphenhydramine, the same thing as Benadryl. It is an antihistamine which main use is to treat allergic reactions. Drowsiness is a side effect that is exploited to help people fall asleep. This would never be a drug that someone would choose to use if they wanted to die. I don't know offhand what the lethal dose would be, but I have never heard of anyone dying of a diphenhydramine overdose, so it would not be easy to overdose on it. And, when her body was finally examined, no pill residue was found, which certainly wouldn't be the case in an actual oral drug overdose, where there would be numerous capsules/tablets in various states of dissolution left behind in her g.i. tract at the time of death.

I also think the way he was trying to portray her as some sort of a "fallen" woman because she had to take sleeping pills after the death of their daughter shows his total lack of knowledge and concern, and compassion. He was just trying to tar her with an "addict" brush to make her look bad. But literally millions of people take sleeping pills every day in order to get regular, wholesome sleep. They are not addicts, immoral or somehow mentally ill for doing so. The days of the barbiturate-type sleeping pills where people actually would become badly-behaved addicts and could die of overdoses are LONG gone. Modern sleeping pills such as Ambien, Lunesta, and Sonata are quite safe and can be taken regularly without need for dose increases even after a long period of time. They are not precursors to suicide. They certainly could be used to sedate someone before murdering them as appears the case here.

[carolcape]

It was commented that if she was going to commit suicide, there was in no way that she was going to be found in the nude, she would even think of that before she did it. Then there is the timeline with the colours and all that were on her body. This bastard is evil and he should get what's coming to him. Then at the end of the show, I understand his mistress came forward. Oh, he can't lie, it is shown all over his face. He made me sick watching him. Cruel for this to happen to this woman, so cruel.

[carolcape]

This was a show that was on before and I am so glad that this man was indicted. He has guilty looking all over his face. Imagine the shock when he didn't get away with it, the SOB. That was a very beautiful woman and she knew she was in danger. I can't understand why she didn't just take her children and go to her mom's and filed for divorce. She was right in her feelings of him killing her and it is a good thing she confided it. I hope he gets the death penalty. My cousin was just murdered down in the states and they are the same way, they can't believe he did it and are behind him. It is totally crazy. I mean we can all see, but the family at home when someone marrys, they just can't believe this ordinary men that look so great to everyone on the outside, are abusers of the worst kind and play in their minds how they are going to kill and then one day they just wake up an do it. More has to be done to expedite these criminals and the death penalty should be carried forward and not let them just spend days in jail. Pull the plug on the SOB and not waste the taxpayers money feeding them.

[wyo-kid]

The cops who responded to the 911 call should be investigated. If it turns out they were negligent in their job, then they should be reprimanded. If they were doing a key stone cop act, then they should be given more training. If they can't cut the mustard then they should be fired. The scumbag should have been hauled down to the station the same night, questioned and then maybe locked up.

[tscrow]

I could not believe the comment from the woman at the end of the show who said that people with the spirit of god in them just don't do things like that. So not true, my best friends sister was murdered by her husband who was a well respected youth pastor at their church. She found out about his relationship with one of the teenage girls, they got in a fight, he murdered her while her son was upstairs sleeping, took her and buried her in a shallow grave and acted like she was missing. Then that sunday instead of going to church he went to the police station and confessed. Wow.....such a spirit of God.

[tuchagrey]

cbs eagerly and earnestly slants so much that I guess I give up. After all the spinning they do, I found myself looking for motives. Of the reporting, not in the death.

I empathize with the relatives, but truly have no idea whether we saw anything accurate -- could be just a Kouric-like fluff twist on a true tragedy

[puertoricola]

He did it!!! I am convinced of it. I hope he goes to prison for the rest of his life and then burns in hell!!!

[apolonia1]

note to defense attorney: get a psychiatric evaluation of victim''s affect and behavior on preceding day and on day of the suicide.
Testimony repeated by witnesses was her bright
affect and behavior during this time period.
This is the sure sign that the person has a plan
and intends to carry it out. RNCS,MSN

[JFKShannon]

Okay, if I have bright affect and behavior today and tomorrow, that's a sure sign I'm going to kill myself? News to me.

[blogmom]

I want to thank 48 Hours for this story. As a resident of the Waco area I am so disturbed by all that has happened and not happened in this case. Why do we not have a medical examiner? Why didn''t the police look more into what happened that night? Why hasn''t the DA done more to resolve this issue? I realize that the DA has an uphill battle with the way the crime scene was botched but this is has to be investigated further. The wholes in this story need to be filled. There are two little girls who need to know what really happened to their Mom.Again, thank you 48 Hours for bringing some light to this dark dark situation.

[blogmom]

I want to thank 48 Hours for this story. As a resident of the Waco area I am so disturbed by all that has happened and not happened in this case. Why do we not have a medical examiner? Why didn''t the police look more into what happened that night? Why hasn''t the DA done more to resolve this issue? According to a statement the police made to the local press, the DA has not even investigated this in the last 6 months. WHY IN THE WORLD? I realize that the DA has an uphill battle with the way the crime scene was botched but this is has to be investigated further. The wholes in this story need to be filled. There are two little girls who need to know what really happened to their Mom. They need to know if their Dad really did the things so many women have accused of him of doing. They don''t need to be raised by the man who killed their mom.

Again, thank you 48 Hours for bringing some light to this dark dark situation.

[twilahub]

My how my heart breaks for these young girls. Loss of a sister, loss of a mother, loss of time with grandparents, father is arrested, they are moved to a new town - new schools for the oldest. Yet I believe that God will reveal the truth and His Love is enough to heal the pain in these two young girls lives!

I have followed this story in Waco paper for a while now - sadly I missed the viewing of this show because I would have liked to see and hear what the "loving husband" had to say. Luckily for Kari God knows the truth and will hold Matt accountable even if our legal system fails in his case.

[bestillandno]

has anyone ever heard of ''''dead weight''''?????? think of how hard it would be to dress a dead body, on a bed that is soft, with the pooling of blood already taking place......sound suspecious to me


Posted by bdrlnt4rl at 06:11 PM : May 11, 2008


This sounded suspicious to me too, but for a different reason. Why would he go to all the trouble to dress her? If he was concerned for her modesty, fine, but it looks like he would have just covered her with a blanket or something, especially since paramedics would need access to her body to treat her had she still been alive. I guess you could say he wasnt'' thinking straigh, but it still sounds fishy.

[lzywomn]

Any one who really knows Linda will tell you that she doesn''t "sugar-coat" things. She is one person who will always let you know what she thinks and where she stands on issues.

Some mentioned that she should be more concerned for her granddaughters. Jim and Linda love those little girls. The grieving Mr. Baker took them to Kerrville where Jim and Linda have had a harder time visiting them. The Dulins have had to go to court just to see their granddaughters for more than an hour or two at a time.

I think the pain that one lady saw in his eyes is there because he thought he had gotten "away with murder," but now realizes that he may not have been quite as smart as he first thought.

Something that bothers me is that while being interviewed about the earlier death of Kassidy and the death of Kari, his voice showed no real sadness or emotion. Not once did I notice his voice breaking or getting shaky as I would have expected from a man who has lost such dear loved ones under such horrible circumstances.

What I think I saw was a man giving a well-rehearsed speech that he hoped and thought some would believe. I for one, didn''t believe it, and I never will.

Only Mr. Baker and God know what really happened the night of Kari''s death. Baker may get confused about what happened, but God won''t.