CHICAGO, May 5, 2008
Who Should Doctors Let Die In A Pandemic?
Report: The Very Elderly, Seriously Hurt Trauma Victims Among Those Who Wouldn't Be Treated
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Now, an influential group of physicians has drafted a grimly specific list of recommendations for which patients wouldn't be treated. They include the very elderly, seriously hurt trauma victims, severely burned patients and those with severe dementia.
The suggested list was compiled by a task force whose members come from prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health and Human Services.
The proposed guidelines are designed to be a blueprint for hospitals "so that everybody will be thinking in the same way" when pandemic flu or another widespread health care disaster hits, said Dr. Asha Devereaux. She is a critical care specialist in San Diego and lead writer of the task force report.
The idea is to try to make sure that scarce resources - including ventilators, medicine and doctors and nurses - are used in a uniform, objective way, task force members said.
Their recommendations appear in a report appearing Monday in the May edition of Chest, the medical journal of the American College of Chest Physicians.
"If a mass casualty critical care event were to occur tomorrow, many people with clinical conditions that are survivable under usual health care system conditions may have to forgo life-sustaining interventions owing to deficiencies in supply or staffing," the report states.
To prepare, hospitals should designate a triage team with the Godlike task of deciding who will and who won't get lifesaving care, the task force wrote. Those out of luck are the people at high risk of death and a slim chance of long-term survival. But the recommendations get much more specific, and include:
Dr. Kevin Yeskey, director of the preparedness and emergency operations office at the Department of Health and Human Services, was on the task force. He said the report would be among many the agency reviews as part of preparedness efforts.
Public health law expert Lawrence Gostin of Georgetown University called the report an important initiative but also "a political minefield and a legal minefield."
Fast Fact
The recommendations would probably violate federal laws against age discrimination and disability discrimination, said Gostin, who was not on the task force.If followed to a tee, such rules could exclude care for the poorest, most disadvantaged citizens who suffer disproportionately from chronic disease and disability.
If followed to a tee, such rules could exclude care for the poorest, most disadvantaged citizens who suffer disproportionately from chronic disease and disability, he said. While health care rationing will be necessary in a mass disaster, "there are some real ethical concerns here."
James Bentley, a senior vice president at American Hospital Association, said the report will give guidance to hospitals in shaping their own preparedness plans even if they don't follow all the suggestions.
He said the proposals resemble a battlefield approach in which limited health care resources are reserved for those most likely to survive.
Bentley said it's not the first time this type of approach has been recommended for a catastrophic pandemic, but that "this is the most detailed one I have seen from a professional group."
While the notion of rationing health care is unpleasant, the report could help the public understand that it will be necessary, Bentley said.
Devereaux said compiling the list "was emotionally difficult for everyone."
That's partly because members believe it's just a matter of time before such a health care disaster hits, she said.
"You never know," Devereaux said. "SARS took a lot of folks by surprise. We didn't even know it existed."
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See all 163 CommentsThat''s easy... Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O''Reilley and Anne Coulter would be a great start!
BTW, I consider the Pandemic Planning List as a test balloon for how health care will be rationed if Clinton or Obama get their way.
Posted by godseyesore at 09:33 AM : May 05, 2008
The reason for doing this is that with limited resources and limited time to spend on each patient, doctors are forced to make choices. Sure they can spend considerable time, effort and resources to keep an Alzheimers patient alive, and they may well succeed, but what about the 10 other people they didn''t have a chance to get to because of all the effort expended on one person? You okay with them dying just because the Alzheimers patient happened to be wheeled in first? I sure hope doctors are exempt - we need them alive to minimize the odds of the rest of us dying.
Peace.
Their rationale was simple: if you didn''t think or act like a "normal" human being, you were killed. No mental hospitals, no medicines, no extra expense to the state to take care of you; just a shot in the arm and a hole in the ground!
This is what our country has come to! Another Nazi state!
SIG HEIL, BUSH!!!!
sig heil, more of the same, McCain!!!
1. Liberal Politicians.
2. Liberal Professors.
3. Trial Lawyers.
Not necessarily in that order.
Tough question, but don''t pick me.
Oil Company Executives
Mortgage Company Executives
Credit Card Company Executives
President Bush
-Not necessarily in that order
Peace.
Posted by berniepeders at 09:47 AM : May 05, 2008
I certainly wouldn''t be happy about it and I''m not even viewing this in a happy light now. I just know that sometimes hard choices have to be made and there''s no point in burying your head in the sand and pretending the problem isn''t there. Unlike me and you who would be swayed by emotions because this would involve our relatives, the doctors who don''t know any of us would (and should) view things more dispassionately. Let me turn things around and ask you what you would do if you were in the shoes of the physicians. You have limited resources, time and manpower - and the sick are coming in. Your underlings look to you for orders. What will those orders be?
this is a no brainer
Lieberal Democr@p
Start with liberal democrats and then work backwards from there!
2. This IS a serious issue. It is also a good first step towards the real necessary discussion if the government is going to take over the personal responsibility of Health Care. These are EXACTLY the questions that need to be be asked before you craft a program. So many are screaming the Government has to institute a program now. BUT NO ONE is talking about what the coverage should be. First question is How much do you owe me to keep me alive? Indefinately drooling in my bed on life support? Terminal but go ahead and spend 500k on a liver transplant? Lifelong Alchoholic who has destroyed his liver, still is drinking and wants a new liver? Old? Young? Folks. This is a very serious subject and the discussion is not only valid, but also long overdue.
Posted by NonayaBiness at 10:43 AM : May 05, 2008
I am not accusing them of playing GOD, but this policy making is one more step in the path to Euthanasia. look closer and see the footprints leading to the future.
It is just a matter of time before we have a pandemic. I don''t trust these other countries to control the bird flu, ebola, etc. When it hits, we are in big trouble.
1. Liberal Politicians.
2. Liberal Professors.
3. Trial Lawyers.
Not necessarily in that order.
Posted by HawkSprings at 10:05 AM : May 05, 2008
#4 Global warming non-believers.:)
Lets see
Pedophiles, Drug Dealers, Corrupt cops would be a good start.
Peace.
Posted by berniepeders at 09:47 AM : May 05, 2008
If I had Alzhiemers, I don''t know if I would even know what was going on.
We are talking about a hypothetical scenario in which things have gone very bad, and we are worried about the survival of hundreds of thousands, amybe millions. In situations like this, I cully agree, triage is necessary. it is a terrible siuation. But if I were old and sick and I knew the effort spent to save my life could be better served and perhaps, those rexources could save five younger persons with their lives in front of them, then I would understand.
Just my opinion.
Posted by erasmus81 at 10:56 AM : May 05, 2008
I agree with you erasmus. Given the global air traffic network things could spread very quickly. Imagine if one of these diseases mutates to become easily transmissible by inhalation and has a long-enough incubation time for it to spread widely before symptoms show up. Things could get really ugly really fast. Pandemics have happened numerous times in the past (eg. influenza in WWI) and it is probably just a matter of time.
Posted by erasmus81 at 10:56 AM : May 05, 2008
I also agree Erasmus. And I think the "coming pandemic" will be
much worst than the "great Flu pandemic" of 1918. Since people in the US already hate each other there
will be mass murders, looting, rape ect.,ect.,ect., on
a massive scale.
I say unto you Sportfans......."Keep Your Powder Dry."
Posted by ToolMangler at 11:10 AM : May 05, 2008
Well, sooner or later we''ll all fall off the list. It''s just a matter of time.
cheap slave die off. That will be 20 million slots taken away from born in the USA Americans.
Posted by rational_1 at 11:13 AM : May 05, 2008
Too true, thats why I hate lists, Hitler made his list and 12 million plus died in the ovens. How long do you think we have before another "final solution" will be enacted?
too late.
If I was a doctor, ToolMangler, you would be at the top of the list of people to save....well, almost.:)
After reading it, it took me a long time not to cringe when someone coughed.
Posted by erasmus81 at 11:32 AM : May 05, 2008
I have erasmus, but a far superior book in my opinion is one written by George Stewart in the 1940s called Earth Abides, that details one man''s life after the fall of civilization (ironically after a pandemic). Check it out on Amazon.com for a synopsis.
Thanks, I will.
Look, We all have the same right to get treatment in this situation. Those with guns can ensure those rights are never taken.
Ask nicely.
Call your insurance company
Sue them (yes,during the pandemic.)
Die.
Posted by RingADing3
I agree. The irrational fear that causes Democrats to be endlessly negative and angry is the reason for this %u201CStory%u201D. Is this %u201CStory%u201D really important to the average American Voter? No, but it is vitally important the Self Absorbed, Negative, Angry, Atheist, Anything Sexuall Democrats who see a Government Conspiracy around every corner.
[Posted by RingADing3 at 11:57 AM : May 05, 2008]
rabid conservatism ... of the neocon variety ... is a documented personality disorder.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
what research to you have on liberals?
without trying to help them, is the same as the destruction of "Wisdom".
Add to the destruction of "Wisdom" a forthcoming GOP
book burning and we have the end of the free world.
No Human is expendable based on age.
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