Lawyers Say Vets Dying Waiting for VA Care

Federal Lawsuit Against Department Of Veterans Affairs Comes To A Close

(CBS)  CBS News producer Pia Malbran wrote this for CBSNews.com.

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In closing arguments in a federal lawsuit against the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), plaintiff lawyers accusing the agency of failing to effectively take care of our nation’s military veterans said, “1,457 veterans died while their appeals were pending” in the last six months alone.

“More of these veterans are dying in the United States than out in combat,” attorney Arturo Gonzalez said.

Two veterans rights groups - Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans United for Truth - sued the VA hoping a federal judge could order the government agency to overhaul and improve its system. The trial took place in San Francisco with seven days of court testimony. Closing remarks were held Wednesday.

Plaintiff lawyers claimed the agency has dropped the ball in a number of ways and as a result has not provided proper access to health care and benefits to veterans. For example, they said the VA has yet to fully implement the Mental Health Strategic Plan that was introduced back in 2004. Gonzalez said, “there is no plan for dealing with all of these veterans who are returning and who are in need of help.” The argument was also made that veterans are waiting too long to get medical appointments and the benefits they deserve.

Daniel Bensing, the Department of Justice lawyer representing the VA, told the judge that the VA has a “very well-regarded system for providing health care.” He insisted that 80 percent of the Mental Health Strategic Plan recommendations have been adopted and he said, “98 percent of Iraq/Afghanistan veterans are seen within 30 days.”

The issue of suicide also played a big part in the trial. Damaging internal e-mails made public early on, as reported by CBS News, showed top officials at the VA discussing how to withhold critical information about the risk of suicide among veterans from the public. Gonzalez and his team said the emails show how the VA’s top brass are not dealing with the true scope of mental health issues facing veterans.

Bensing did not talk specifically about the e-mails in his closing statement but said “we don’t dispute that suicide is a major, serious problem among veterans.” He said the issue of suicide is already a “major priority” for the VA and claimed the evidence presented by other attorneys on the issue of suicide was “unnecessary.” Furthermore, he said the mental health budget has increased from $3.2 billion to $3.5 billion annually and 3,700 new mental health professionals have recently been hired by the VA.

U.S. District Court judge Samuel Conti now has to make a decision in the case and will do so after receiving post-trial summaries from both sides which is scheduled to happen May 9 and May 19.

[libh8er]

This is a perfect example of what government run healthcare is all about.

For you people who think socialized medicine is the bee''s knees, you''re in for a very rude awakening.

[singingrick]

Don''t worry vets. Help is on the way. Bush is going to send you all a nice new "support our troops" bumper sticker courtesy of the RNC.

[extremophil]

"Lawyers Say Vets Dying Waiting for VA Care"

What the heck do you think the lawyers would say?

[wdrussell1]

You don''t see nine digit McCain crying about needing government help.

[armydog2]

socialized medicine is not the issue here, this administration''s lack of concern and forsight when you enter a war and you lie 935 times to do it you will end up with Veterans and Soldiers who need medical care. They have earned it by voluntarily putting their lives on the line for this Country, and the disgrace here is bush and the neocons don''t give a *** about our Veterans.And that includes mccain who should know better than to turn his back on our Veterans.

[singingrick]

So this is what Republicans mean when they say support our troops?

Thousands dying while waiting for medical care?

With support like this who needs Al Qaeda?

[shortyinmo]

Listen up, unless you work in a VA like I do you shouldn''t be opening your mouth about this. We work very hard to get our new veterans in asap! Consults have to be awnsered within 30 days. Also don''t forget that we have WWII vets here still dying in nursing care, and Vietnam vets here who have all kinds of ill nesses. This is like a regular hospital in the sense that we can to as many patients as we can. We are not super human. You don''t work 24/7 and neither do we. There is a lot of false sense of entitlement going on that the general public doesn''t see and that is a big part of the problem. Everyone wants something (mostly for free...or should I say at yours and mine expense). There are also plenty of vets who never get interviewed that are completely satisfied with the services they get here but the liberal media can''t pring that on their pages or they won''t sell any ******* papers.

[democrat122]

Sad day when these type of stories pass as journalism. FYI - VA "appeals" is a legal term which refers to those who are appealing some aspect of the "Service Connection" system of the VA - a system which pays a sort of monthly ''disability'' to all Veterans whose medical problems may have resulted in some way from their Service. This has nothing to do with "waiting for medical care" - those individuals were by definition already receiving care from the VA, what they were "appealing" was their level of monthly monetary remuneration which they receive in addition to their medical care. Terrible and misleading reporting.

[flreason]

"This is a perfect example of what government run healthcare is all about.

For you people who think socialized medicine is the bee''''s knees, you''''re in for a very rude awakening."
Posted by LibH8er

This isn''t about a health care system failure, it''s about a treasonous transfer of funds meant for military support to private corporations and individuals. The neo-con agenda is the transfer of public funds to corporations like Haliburton, and ultimately to themselves. Jefferson was right: "Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains."

[lindaredtail]

This is an example of a Republican philosophy which wants to spend money to wage war but not to care for the soldiers they sent to fight. It has always been this way with the Republicans. How many military scandals do there have to be before something is done?

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by shortyinmo

If you are, as you say, a VA employee, then you should know that it is not the employees that are being criticized, it is the way that adequate funding to care for all of those who put their lives at risk, seems to be a running joke among the "we cut taxes, so we don''t have the budget" people, most of whom are on your side of the aisle.

The neocons have no problem however, with lying to start wars, wasting and embezzling trillions of dollars getting the soldiers injured in the first place, but have a strange case of amnesia when it comes to actually "supporting the troops".

And you support these people...

[lindaredtail]

Everyone has the right to "open their mouths" about an issue. Frankly you sound like part of the problem. I worked with veterans as well and they deserve all the services that they receive. You sound dissatisfied Republican who doesn''t like entitlement programs. But people who fight in battle for their country (unlike some we know who get deferrments or don''t fulfill their service) deserve all the care they need delivered in as efficient way as possible.

[singingrick]

"Thousands of vets dying waiting for medical care."

Is this what Republicans mean by support our troops?

[murp0147]

Socialized Medicine? Rude Awakening? I have a rude awakening for you; enlist. Maybe you should pick up an M4 and execute combat patrols in theater. Maybe then you''ll see just how ridiculous your detritus argument really is. Veterans who don''t receive sufficient medical care is UNSAT. You should be ashamed of yourself for allowing the debate to drift from the focus: VA support for returning Vets. Medical care for vets isn''t just parlor talk, it''s real life. PTSD to missing limbs, this isn''t a philosophical discussion. If you want to wax poetic, ruminate on this: why isn''t the nation more outraged? Why are returning vets, in the context of medical support, becoming a second class of citizens?

[mcvet]

This has nothing to do with "waiting for medical care" - those individuals were by definition already receiving care from the VA, what they were "appealing" was their level of monthly monetary remuneration which they receive in addition to their medical care. Terrible and misleading reporting.


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Posted by democrat122 at 10:25 AM : May 02, 2008
+ report abuse

How is that Swastika Breath?? If they have been DENIED then they are NOT recieving benefits.. I KNOW I''m a Disabled Veteran and know what happened to those in my DAV now who didn''t have a disablitity or had a disablitity NOT recognized by the Defense Department at the time of discharge. This LAW Suit is BY Veterans you pathetic Bootlicker... VETERAN''s ORGANIZATIONS brought the suit.. that''s the STORY! Sieg Heil Bush!! God but you Nazi''s are sleazy creatures... VERY sleazy indeed.

[murp0147]

Socialized Medicine? Rude Awakening? I have a rude awakening for you; enlist. Maybe you should pick up an M4 and execute combat patrols in theater. Maybe then you''ll see just how ridiculous your detritus argument really is. Veterans who don''t receive sufficient medical care is UNSAT. You should be ashamed of yourself for allowing the debate to drift from the focus: VA support for returning Vets. Medical care for vets isn''t just parlor talk, it''s real life. PTSD to missing limbs, this isn''t a philosophical discussion. If you want to wax poetic, ruminate on this: why isn''t the nation more outraged? Why are returning vets, in the context of medical support, becoming a second class of citizens?

[psk123-2009]

How sad is this story when our Vets can not get all the care they need. They put their lives on the line (for all of us) and deserve nothing less than the best care available when they need it.

[mcvet]

There are also plenty of vets who never get interviewed that are completely satisfied with the services they get here but the liberal media can''''t pring that on their pages or they won''''t sell any ******* papers.


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Posted by shortyinmo at 10:18 AM : May 02, 2008
+ report abuse

Well of course they are... I am one of them. But I''M already in the system... this is about guys who WANT help, who DESERVE help, but are being refused. Now put the Swastika Away, a lot of us are Liberal out here and pay our taxes just like everyone else, and let''s try to be AMERICAN for a Change. We made a VERY big mistake in the 2000 election... that''s just a fact. Time to own up to it and move on... time to get a President who will put people in charge who KNOW what and how to fix these things. Sieg Heil Bush

[excoachken]

The Republicans apparently feel they have completed their obligation to our veterans with those "Support the Troops" magnets on the back of their SUVs.

[murp0147]

Shorty, I''m a vet. I don''t feel entitled to more than I was promised, and I submit to you that your work ethic is the exception and not the rule. Further, the issue is with the administration and not the health care providers; let''s stay on task. PS: The "liberal media" has not approved this message.

[three-o-six]

As a VietNam Vet I have seen it both ways. A lot depends on which facility you go to. Example -- The VA in Albuquerque is excellent -- you can sense that they care. Appoints are made and you usually see a doctor on the day of your appointment. El Paso VA on the other hand gives you the impression that they would rather pick their teeth that serve a veteran. So I experienced good VA hospitals and I''ve experienced bad VA Hospitals.

[lindaredtail]

I worked at a social setting detox as a referral counselor. A huge amount of the clients were veterans. The first President to really cut Veterans Funding was Ronald Reagan. He cut the funding to the veterans who needed drug and alcohol treatment and other services as well. The cuts have continued to this time. For years funding for veterans programs has been cut. How many scandals over funding have we seen in the Bush Administration? First Walter Reed. Then the coverup over the Percentage of mental illness, then the Barracks being in unliveable condition just two days ago and now this. I just told you about a previous one. How many have there been covered up between then and now? The Republicans love to post how many years that they''ve held the presidency. Wonderful in good times. Now its time to take responsibility. It will be 20 years to 8 when Bush''s term is done. So who should we look at for this debacle? And until 2006 the Republicans had controlled Congress from 1994. Except for a short 3 month period of time. HI MCVET!

[missingamerica]

That is "government health care" when it is infested by the attitude that "Government should be run like a Business".

Dead people cost less than sick people.

[lindaredtail]

I think that there are many hardworking government employees. There are some slackers but there are slackers in private industry too. What I just read is just more of the Republican corporate propaganda machine that would rather the services were supplied by private companies. And we all know how well that''s worked out in Iraq. The private contractors (aka mercenaries) who have been accused of all kinds of wrongdoing and huge amounts of MISSING FUNDS measuring in the billions of dollars. And the same in Katrina ravaged areas. Huge amounts of missing funds. Because all of these private contractors are so honest, upright and trustworthy. (LOL0

[luvny-2009]

It''s a sin the way our Vet''s are treated. They should have the best of the best no matter what. They stepped up to the plate for us whether they agreed with the wars or not. Yeah support the troops magnets do a hell of a lot of good when a kid is hurt. We dem are always accused of giving too much well here''s a perfect example of NOT giving enough.

[erasmus81]

"For you people who think socialized medicine is the bee''''s knees, you''''re in for a very rude awakening." Posted by LibH8er at 09:46 AM : May 02, 2008

I don''t know what you are classifying as "socialized medicine", but here in Canada, there are no veterans or anyone else for that matter, dying from lack of healthcare.

People have a different view of what it is about. And for every country it can be slightly different. The only time it is bad is if you have a corrupt government, and the people have no say.

[lindaredtail]

We Dems do need to do a lot more. We need to win in November (Military is under President) and overhaul the VA. Our veterans should have everything that they need. I don''t agree with the war but I do support the troops. (That those who disagree with the war don''t support the troops is a right-wing extremist Republican myth.) They should get everything they need, for as long as they need it. And the money to pay for it needs to be found no matter what.

[libh8er]

How sad is this story when our Vets can not get all the care they need.
Posted by psk123 at 10:39 AM : May 02, 2008

Welcome to government run healthcare. The government can''t even take care of our troops, so how in the hell are they going to run healthcare for everyone.

And for all you bedwetting libs who think this is all Bush''s fault, think again. My mom wasn an RN and she worked at the VA Hospital in New Orleans for 12 years.

It has ALWAYS been this way! Why? Because it''s run by the government!!!!!

[lindaredtail]

erasmus (love the name) you are listening to the usual false war-cry "socialized medicine" The extremist Republicans have constantly used that slogan implying that people believe in socialism as a way to stop health-care from being enacted. And they have succeeded so far. All Americans should have health care. That is not socialism. That children and veterans do not have adequate health care in the wealthiest nation in the world is a disgrace. We dishonor ourselves.

[samrensho]

Bet Shrub and Shooter get all the medical care they want and they''re such war heroes. The government makes me sick.

[lindaredtail]

Rightwingman your premises are fault. You blame the government for not discovering the overbilling. Yet these companies know what they charged, when they charged it, who they charged it to. They know that they were being overbilled yet accepted the money anyways where HONESTY would say not too. Or to return it which they do not. But that is what we encourage citizens to do when they find money, or the bank gives them too much. We encourage them to return it as an act of character and integrity. Once again the idea that Corporations are entiltled to a different set of moral and ethics than the rest of us is a fallacy and a falsehood. What you stated also does not explain the MISSING MONEY. Blaming the government for the lack of morals,ethics,integrity,honor of a company is illogical.

[erasmus81]

Posted by ritewingman at 11:36 AM : May 02, 2008

I don''t know how many MRI machines we have, but I also do not know of anyone that has had to wait for an MRI or anything else for that matter.

[lindaredtail]

I do not know what you read but there are millions of children in this country who do not have health care and suffer terribly for it. It is a disgrace and there is no doubt that it is no matter what shade of lipstick you put on the pig. Using hospitals as a primary care provider costs even more money. Do I believe that every American should have equal health care. Yes I do. And I do not believe that there is any ethically sound position otherwise.

[Renegade.Rivers]

Part 1:

I am a 100% disabled veteran, and I have to depend on the VA for all of my medical treatment and have for the past 35 years. I can''t work and since I can''t their is no chance of me getting insurance. People on welfare get better medical treatment than we do, and they can get it in the community. While in my case I have to drive 100 miles to even see a doctor. Oh sure they pay for my transportation, at least they pretend to, in reality, they pay only about 1/2 of the cost. Then once we get to the VA hospital, the doctors that we see are nearly all foreigners, who have no concept of what a veteran is actually going through.

Then when we do see a doctor, the odds of them actually treating what ills us, is slim to none. They will make excuses, act like we are crazy, and that it is impossible for us to be suffering from the symptoms that we describe. Most of the doctors have no idea about the chemicals we have been exposed to, and the uncountable number of shots that we were required to take from basic training on, some of which we cannot even find out what they were, because they are still hidden in a cloak of secrecy. The military has at various times used us soldiers as guinea pigs for what ever concoctions that they develop, with no regards to what damage it may cause us in the years that follow.

[Renegade.Rivers]

Part 2:

While there are those in the VA system who do care, the majority of them are just there for the paycheck and quitting time. they have developed new programs that are suppose to make the care better, but in fact it has made the care less efficient.

When you go to a civilian doctor, you get to know the doctor and his nurse on a personal basis. In the VA system nurses are shuffled from clinic to clinic, and because of that when you call about a problem the odds of the nurse understanding your ailments and your needs are nil. They also have what is called the "call-center" When you call in, instead of getting someone in your clinic that might know you, and what ails you, you get someone who answers the phone, and then if your lucky a nurse will call you back, a nurse that has no idea what is wrong with you, or what you may actually need, because she is in no way part of your treatment team. Then after she talks to you she has to refer your call to a nurse in your clinic who may never have treated you, that in turn refers your problems to a doctor, who if you are lucky may respond within days, not hours to your needs.

[Renegade.Rivers]

Part 3:

I know that every time I go to the VA, that I may very well have to fight for the care that I have coming to me. I can''t count the number of times I have had to go to the patient rep, or the chief-of-staff just to get a problem I have addressed, and at times I have had to go clear to the IG in Washington to get things straightened out.

We went and we fought, and we were wounded and maimed, and our minds have been scarred, yet, you Nazi bast@rds want to act like that we aren''t worth spit. Our leaders would rather spend billions on tax breaks and incentives for the big corporations, instead of spending it on the veterans who have fought for our country. Your a sick-in-the head bunch of morons, who deserve to be locked up and the key thrown away.

Am I mad, he11 yea I am mad, we were promised the moon when we went into the military, and all we get is a pig-in-the poke.

Come on America, wake up, your veterans deserve the very best, because they gave the very best years of their lives for this country. To give them any less is diabolical and evil.

[random_radar]

This is the abyssmal scenario we all will be facing with national health care in a few years. Have fun dying while waiting!

[lindaredtail]

Yes zoe2006 Haliburton no longer has it''s corporate office in the U.S. Doesn''t pay American taxes any longer. I think there is a reason. When Cheney ran for the Presidency he had to divinvest himself from Haliburton. He kept what are called deferred stock options (which isn''t illegal but morally lacking) When he leaves office he will be able to use those deferred stock options. The corporate office is now in Dubai which means he will not probably have to disclose what he receives which will be a huge amount of money (billions) from Haliburton''s contracts in Iraq. Americans will never know how wealthy he became from the war he so strongly advocated for. Leaves a bad taste and a scent of lack of character doesn''t it?

[erasmus81]

People think that our healthcare is free but it isn''t. We all pay something every month. Everyone does get the same healthcare and that is the BEST healthcare. No one does without. Are there some waits? I am sure there is for some things, but if it is an emergency, then they move to the top of the list. I or anyone else I know of has not had any long waits for anything. I have heard that Ontario isn''t the greatest, but then Ontario isn''t the greatest for anything.:)

I find that people have a completely distorted view of our healthcare system. There are some people that PANIC at the mere mention of the word "socialized".

[venkata4--2008]

"Part 1 Part 2 Posted by renrivers at 11:52 AM : May 02, 2008"

My sympathies are with all suffering veterans. US has largest military budget in general. I think the best practice can be to go to local doctor and get that reimbursed or something. May be we need to ask legislature for such bill so that president like this will know the cost of the war when it comes to allocating money in the budget for such reimbursement. My wishful thinking. In first gulf war itself returning cascades of fallen heroes coverage is taken off air for fear of people''s reaction. The VA affairs needs money which was never thought of before going to this war by neo cons as they were misinforming people that war will cost only 50 billions.

[erasmus81]

"I do not know what you read but there are millions of children in this country who do not have health care and suffer terribly for it." Posted by lindaredtail at 11:50 AM : May 02, 2008

I have read that and I find it unbelievable. I could not imagine having to constantly worry about my child getting sick and possibly dying from lack of healthcare.

[venkata4--2008]

"Yes zoe2006 Haliburton no longer has it''''s corporate office in the U.S. Doesn''''t pay American taxes --- Leaves a bad taste and a scent of lack of character doesn''''t it?

Posted by lindaredtail at 11:57 AM : May 02, 2008"

As of last year Halliburton subsidiaries are making 2 billions net profit per quarter for the first time in it''s 84 year old history. After Iraq war it''s stock price doubled. Moving HQ to Dubai as you have mentioned is great move by VP so that he will have good nest eggs for retirement.

[lindaredtail]

Like I said Rightwingman I do not know what you read but there is endless evidence of Americans without healthcare. Just google American health care and it will all be there. This is the typical behavior of conservatives who hate entitlement programs. Anyone who thinks there is merit in universal health care is a socialist which I am not. I am a moderate. I vote for moderate candidates usually and believe in moderate principles. Much of this conservative philosophy is based on principles of selfishness and greed (which they call personal responsibility) Government exists to serve the people. In the pure conservative philosophy there would be no services and each person would be like an island unto themselves. You follow the right-wing extremist line to its conclusion and that is where it goes. Government should serve the people like our veterans who served us with honor and vulnerable citizens children, elderly disabled. We have a responsiblity as a national community to do so. That is the difference. I do not promote socialism or marxism or communism. I promote that as a nation we are responsible for our citizens. That can be done in a free market economy. What you promote is selfishness and greed and unmitigated self-interest. Look up health care on sources that are honest.

[erasmus81]

renrivers

I have two things to say to you:

#1 I CARE.

#2 It is too bad you don''t live in Canada, because
if you did, you would not be going through this
c-r-a-p.

I am hoping that whoever your next president is, they will be better than who you have now, and that they will step up and do what is right for your country.

[lindaredtail]

I don''t know what that is lastdance but it looks like you''re the one taking up lots of space. If you don''t like someone''s posting (full of profanity) then report abuse.

[bobbyduck1]

What you really want is for everyone to have the same (top of the line) level of health care and that is 1)- socialized medicine and, 2) impossible - posted by ritewingman

As an American living permanently in Canada, I can assure you that you are so far wrong it''s unbelieveable. Health care for everyone is supported, along with all of the rest of the infrastructure across this country that dwarfs the U.S. and is supported by a population base equal to the state of California. Are there problems - YES, as in any system. But if we can do this well here with an incredibly limited tax base, the States could do ever so much more!

However, it would require that all of the insurance/health care industry nouthpieces in the GOP to take a deep breath and THINK for a minute. Oh wait, if they thought for a minute, they''d be Democrats!

Never mind, impossible...!!!!

[lindaredtail]

renrivers I also care. We need the VA to be overhauled. I hope we will and soon and that things will get better for you and the other veterans.

[swwils]

All right the system needs an over haul,I agree if it takes a lawsuit then so be it.I have been cared for by the VA for 15 years without a problem,apparently after reading this article I am fortunate.I believe they are just overwhelmed by all this war.Doctors,and Nurses go into the free world because of the money.The Government just don''t pay like the outside practices.We need some people that are not drawn into these fields for money,but for care,or Uncle Sam needs to increase their pay.

[michael0004]

The Department of Veterans Affairs under the Bush administration has been an enemy of the veteran rather than an advocate for the veteran. It will spend untold millions of dollars to try to block veterans from receiving health care and disability benefits that they deserve and that are required by law. Take for instance the case of Haas vs Nicholson in the US Court of Appeals. Haas is representative of thousands of other similarly situated veterans who were denied benefits and the associated health care by the VA in contravention of the the law. And despite the fact that the US Court of Appeals has yet to rule on this case (which has been going on for 6 years due to VA foot dragging), the VA, nonetheless, has initiated a proceeding to formally implement its policy that was ruled illegal by a lower court so as to provide a "fig" leaf to cover their illegal activity and continue to deny benefits that the lower court ruled it had a duty to provide. And of course, the Bush Administration wants to have all of its bases covered so it submitted draft legislation several months ago to the Senate to codify that which the VA has been doing in contravention of the current law and lower court rulings. For more information, "google" Haas vs Nicholson or "google" Blue Water Navy.

[dave_1958]

All this will be fixed when Hillary Clinton is president.