Fighting For God And Country
Sunday Morning: Are Service Members Discriminated Against By Evangelists Within The U.S. Military?
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Eye on Religion
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When it comes to the role of religion in the military, a famous saying from World War II seems to sum things up:
"There are no atheists in foxholes."
Immortalized in the 1942 film "Wake Island," the line reinforces the idea that there' s just nothing quite like bombs and bullets to convert a non-believer.
Whoever decided that owes Jeremy Hall an apology.
Army Specialist Hall was a turret gunner who has been deployed to Iraq twice. His Humvee came under fire - a bullet nearly killed him - but he didn't find God, and he wasn't looking…
"I'm an atheist," Hall told Spencer. "I just don't have any belief in supernatural, any forces - deities, luck, fate, destiny - that's about it really. It's very simple."
And he says atheism has cost him. After he refused to join in a prayer, he says he was ostracized and passed over for promotion. He sued the Army for discrimination. Then he was threatened when word got out that he had filed a lawsuit.
"They had found out who I was," Hall said. "And I had about six to eight guys following me around in Qatar. And they were saying stuff like, 'atheist ass pirate,' 'faggot,' 'I'm gonna beat your ass.'"
Things got so bad the Army assigned him a full-time bodyguard.
Hall's lawsuit is the latest skirmish in the debate about whether the military has become, in essence, a Christian organization. This, in a country that has "In God we trust" on its currency, but separation of church and state in its constitution.
"You gotta be able to minister to soldiers of all different faith groups, and some who don't have faith groups," said Chaplain David Shurtleff.
Chaplain Shurtleff is based in Fort Riley, Kansas. He says protecting the rights of those non-believers is essential, but he doesn't see any harm in a voluntary prayer.
"It's a two-way street," he said. "And so, you know, the atheist soldier should be happy that some of his band of brothers were able to have that religious experience, whereas, you know, there was no pressure put on him to participate in it."
Try telling that to Mikey Weinstein.
"It's very hard to argue when we have the evidence, the clear evidence - not just implicitly, but explicitly - that we're turning our American military into government-paid Christian missionaries."
Perhaps no one in America is as angry about Jeremy Hall's situation as he is.
"In the U.S. military today, if you wanna get ahead, well, you're promoted by who you pray with," Weinstein said.
You'd be hard pressed to find a family more dedicated to military service: Weinstein's father was a distinguished graduate from the Naval Academy's class of 1953. He's a graduate of the Air Force Academy, as are both his sons and his daughter-in-law.
But in 2005 his love affair with the military came to an abrupt halt, when his son Casey experienced virulant anti-Semitism at the academy.
As documented in the film "Constantine's Sword," Casey Weinstein said, "I never heard it in high school - if people knew I was Jewish, they never made any point, never got mentioned. But once I got to the academy, I became so aware of it, that I was different."
The Pentagon investigated, and said mistakes were made, admitting to "incidents where some superior officers and some cadets were engaged in inappropriate religious behavior."
Suspecting this was but the tip of the iceberg, Weinstein started the Military Religious Freedom Foundation and got a torrent of calls.
"We just recently went over 7,500 members: active duty members of the U.S. Marine Corps, Navy, Army and Air Force, Reserve and Guard, and vets, both officers and enlisted, who have come to us, you know, begging for help."
As evidence that Christianity is being forced on soldiers, there is a promotional video from a group called the Christian Embassy shot inside the Pentagon and featuring several generals.
Then there's the Web site of the Officers Christian Fellowship, which has representatives on nearly all U.S. military bases worldwide.
"They're unabashed about it," Mikey Weinstein said. "Goal number one, they wanna see 'a spiritually transformed United States military.' Goal number two, with ambassadors for Christ - now listen to the prepositional phrase 'in uniform.' Now parenthetically that hasn't worked out too well for planet Earth the last 2,000 years."
The Air Force Academy discrimination case is the subject of a new documentary, "Constantine's Sword," in which the Academy is characterized as putting their "stamp" on conservative Christian ideology.
Oren Jacoby, the film's writer and director, said, "As a filmmaker, I like to find stories about people who have real courage."
"Going back to the Roman Empire, when Constantine first made Christianity the state religion, it's a very dangerous thing when military might and religious fervor come together, because it inflames people. It inflames hatred of the 'other.'"
Critics say being perceived as a Christian army on a crusade is especially dangerous today, lest our country be seen as engaging in a holy war.
Deputy Defense Under-secretary Bill Carr, point man on personnel issues, thinks religious freedom is always a balancing act.
"I don't see it as a major problem," Carr said. "But it is something that requires attention so that it doesn't become a problem.
"I think the important part for the military is to be inclusive," he said. "When it does gather together, if a prayer is offered, that that prayer would not be faith-specific, naming, for example, Jesus Christ or Allah, but instead would lift the spirits of those that are present."
Carr points out that the generals in that Christian Embassy video were told they were out of line. Any evangelizing, he says, is strictly against the rules.
Carr said it is his firm belief that Christianity is not pushed in the military, "except in rare cases.
"Some people don't recognize that they've made an error. That's why we coach each other in the rules of the game, so that we respect each other and respect our traditions."
But that wasn't his experience, said Jeremy Hall, whose discrimination case is winding its way through the Kansas courts.
And where does his experience leave him as far as the military goes?
"I have about a year left in the military," Hall said. "I did plan to make a career out of it. I still love my country. I still love the service. But I don't believe you can continue to work for somebody who's infringed upon your rights.
"I hope the military changes. And if it does, I might just come back in."
And whether he wins or loses in court, just for the record, that old saying "There are no atheists in foxholes" - true?
"It's not," Hall said. "Ii know plenty of atheists in foxholes."
And, he says, they can be excellent soldiers.
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See all 921 CommentsA cult is a cult - no matter how you candy-coat the thing.
The Bu$h cabal based their entire oil-grab scheme on the US hating Muslums - that''s what 9/11 was all about...
This is no surprise. I suffered it in Germany in 1987. I was an atheist, and it was well known, and I had to pull guard duty 5 Sunday mornings in a row, "since I wasn''t going to church anyway", like that somehow made it fair.
If your going to church is like a chore or a job, then don''t go. But I shouldn''t have to pick up YOUR SLACK, because YOU want to go to church!!
At least the Nazis knew the Jews. Or lived among them. We don''t live among Arabs. Last Arab I saw was on some terrorism teevee show.
I was in the military, and I can tell ya first hand that it can be extremely lonely. And thats what religion did for me. It made me feel at home. Its like the McDonalds food chain: "Recognizable food where ever ya go." Same thing with religion in the military.
"Going back to the Roman Empire, when Constantine first made Christianity the state religion, it''s a very dangerous thing when military might and religious fervor come together, because it inflames people. It inflames hatred of the ''other.''"
Critics say being perceived as a Christian army on a crusade is especially dangerous today, lest our country be seen as engaging in a holy war.
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Well, just how do they expect people to go and sacrifice their lives without belief in something beyond death? Even Stalin recognized that without religion he didn''t have much hope fighting Hitler. So he brought back all the priests he previously ran off.
No, if you expect people to throw away their life after some war, you had better offer something more than 10,000 dollars to their families after they die.
But even the military ain''t dumb enough to not let people be people.
The other day it was about an obscure local-level Republican speaking at a Nazi organization. Today it''s about an obscure atheist claiming he''s discrimated against. Tomorrow it will be a heart-rending story about an Islamic terrorist claiming he was tortured.
The resultant posts are as predictable as the snacks regularly served up by CBS.
Maybe the Jewish lawyer who was so offended should get his facts stright on what Christian values contributed to the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, WWI and WWII, where 90% or more of those who died had the beliefs and expressed those beliefs that he hates. they died so he could have a different religion, although most Jews in Israel for instance are not Jewish at all.
As for the solider, Hall, he doesn''t have to fit the norm the same as *** and others. But because they set themselves apart due to their own beliefs they can''t expect to be accepted. Their beliefs are an insult to the majority. They insist on acceptance but do not accept the majority.
As for the commentator, she is not a journalist, that would require objectivity. The whole segment is an insult to the majority of us who understand our history and why the belief in Christ is essential for our values and our form of government.
All I can do is not watch you station anymore, and I will take that action as my statement on your corporate beliefs and the type of journalism you profess.
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How true, how true!! We see that in "other" religions but we don''t see it in christianity, but it''s there for all to see if they would just "open" their mind.
Our founding fathers knew the dangers of having a "national" religion.
I am white and in the adjoining room, this black lady came to my bed and said she saw me at the foot of her bed, she laid hands on me and I knew I was going to make it. Faith came alive in me and I left the hospital and my husband really saw how God''s hand moved in my body and my life. She was my Angel and I am so thankful she came and prayed for me.
"In our every deliberation, we must consider the impact of our decisions on the next seven generations." - From The Great Law of The Iroquois Confederacy
I''m glad you (your body/a living organizm) survived, BUT it had NOTHING to do with "Angels" or an "Invisible Sky Wizard"...they DO NOT exist...and have NEVER existed...and to think otherwise is Delusion.
If I told you your husband was having an affair, what would you say to me? You would want PROOF. If I told you your son stole money from me, what would you say to me? You would want PROOF. So why is it that you DO NOT require PROOF about Angels and the Invisible Sky Wizard?
Put some "THOUGHT" into the issue and you will finally see.
Posted by Bastages3
Actually, the reasons for the failure of the Roman Empire was not religion. Corruption was huge. The military was incapable of sustaining itself. The Empire split into two after Constantine moved the capital. Christianity had nothing to do with it. Actually, Christianity was responsible for saving Western civilization and making it the dominant culture in the world. Were it not for the unity brought about by the Roman Catholic Church in central and western Europe, the Muslim forces of the Middle East and Africa would have completely engulfed Europe. Spain never would have been freed. France and Italy and Germany would have been "Muslimized". And as a result, no colonization of the New World.
The New World was colonized primarily for religious freedom, but also for religious conversion. Much of Spanish conquest was for the purpose of spreading the gospel to the Indians and westernizing the whole area. That force called Christianity, which you criticize, is the most influential movement in the history of the world. Without it, we would be Muslim, and we would still be living in the Old World.
Posted by bjrober
Why are you sad about it?
Religious leaders rely on these tools to keep the mental delusion going, generation after generation.
Stop the insanity.
Use your brains and realize there''s no magical, invisible, friends, looking down and judging our every action from somewhere far above.
Snap out it!!!
Posted by headpop2 at 12:12 PM : Apr 27, 2008
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Really?? What history books have "ya" been reading, headpop2? The people who left England left because of the king "and" his "state" religion.
The GOD delusion: When one person is deluded it''s called insanity; when several people are deluded it''s called religion.
Politics has killed hundreds of thousands; religion has killed hundreds of millions.
Christianity today is nothing like the "new" Judaism that Christ was teaching.
We need to get rid of discrimination based on religion, race, skin color, sexual orientation. How can we fight and win this war being so much divided?
Tolerance? What ever became of it - or did we never have it to begin with?
Posted by bjrober at 12:33 PM : Apr 27, 2008
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How conceited is THAT statement!! Don''t be sad for people who do not believe in the supernatural. You don''t believe in multiple gods (as the pagans did) and we just happen to believe in one less god than you do.
As for your healing; cancer does go into remission and there''s obviously a medical answer for your remission. Just because we haven''t discovered the answer yet doesn''t make it a "miracle."
Scary... Christ must be rolling in his grave LHAO!!
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