Army Won't End Stop-Loss Practice In 2008

Forcing Some Soldiers To Stay In Service Beyond Obligation Will Continue Through Fall Next Year

(AP)  It will be more than a year before the Army can end the unpopular practice of forcing soldiers to stay in the service beyond their retirement or re-enlistment dates, a top official said Monday.

Lt. Gen. James D. Thurman, deputy chief of staff for operations, said he hoped that wartime demand for troops will decline enough by around the fall of next year to end "stop-loss." He said there are more than 12,000 currently serving under the practice - an action that critics have called a "backdoor draft."

Thurman also said that as officials continue to increase the size of the Army, it could be possible by the fall of 2011 for troops to be home two years for every year they are deployed.

The two issues of stop-loss and long tours of duty have been among the Pentagon's most disliked practices among troops. Thousands have been forced to stay in the service beyond their contracts since the start of the global war on terrorism. And tours of duty were increased to 15 months from 12 months a year ago so the Army could come up with the extra forces President Bush ordered for the troop buildup in Iraq.

Now that most of the extra troops are being drawn down by the end of July, Mr. Bush early this month ordered the tours cut back to 12 months, a move Thurman said would help the Army begin to restore its balance.

"We want to reduce the strain and stress on our soldiers and our families," he told a Pentagon news conference.

There are currently 17 Army combat brigade teams deployed - 15 in Iraq and two in Afghanistan. Two are scheduled to come out of Iraq in the drawdown.

Though that allows officials to shorten tour lengths, it will be a while before they also can end stop-loss, he said.

"As the demand (for troops) comes down, we should be able to get us weaned off of stop-loss ... it's our intent to do that," Thurman said.

"But the demand exceeds supply right now," he told a Pentagon news conference.

He said he hoped, but couldn't promise, that if demand stabilized at around 15 brigades, the use of stop-loss could be ended by the end of budget year 2009, or beginning of budget year 2010.

Those currently being held even though their service is supposed to be finished include more than 6,800 active-duty Army, about 3,800 in the Army National Guard and close to 1,500 in the Reserves, he said.

The high tempo of operations in recent years has not only strained troops and increased separations and stress on their families, but prevented troops from training for the full range of possible operations. They have focused training on counterinsurgency operations and neglected other skills because counterinsurgency is what's needed in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Though the Pentagon is expected to increase the number of troops in Afghanistan sometime next year, Thurman said he had not been asked for such troops.

"Could that happen? Yes," he said.

The United States now has about 31,000 troops there - the most since the war began in October 2001 - and also has been pressing the allies to contribute more.

[hbevis]

NavyChief8
THANKS FOR THE COME BACK. AND I WANT TO WISH YOU THE VERY BEST ON YOUR NEW DEPLOYMENT..

[navychief8]

NavyChief8

Is this comment directed to me? ---I understand how you all feel. But your comments don''''''''t help us, the troops. If so tell me what I have said wrong and I will surely correct the problem.

Posted by hbevis at 04:54 PM : Apr 22, 2008

No, no! not directed at you at all. I agree with your feelings. I just used your feelings as sort of a starting point for what I see in our society.

Sorry If I confused you.

Cheers

[hbevis]

To: dog7771 and everyone else that is interested.

You know, I am sure that some of our Vets are not cared for in the way they should be. I am a vet. and I have always been taken care of in what I think is the proper way. I see the same Doctor each time and I get whatever I need. There has been a big STINK about some of the VA Hospitals and some HEADS need to Roll. And the sooner the Better. But, this problem does not exist at each Hospital or Clinic. One problem with the big VA hospitals is SECUTITY. It is unsafe to walk around these places at night, some in the daytime, without being afraid of getting mugged or robbed. Or maybe even getting KILLED. This kind of thing needs to be seen to and the problem solved once and for all. I say again to all, this giving the government H*** does not solve anything. The people in power just ignore all of this stuff. If you want to be able to make a difference, then do it in the right way and you stand some chance of making a change.

[hbevis]

http://www.armytimes.com/

HONOR THE FALLEN
Not forgotten
Give the world the best you
have and the best will come
back to you. %u2014Madeline Bridges

http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor.html


Any one that cares can go to these sites above and look at the pictures and read of some of the TROOPS that have given their life to protect your right to Raise H*** about what you think your problem may be.

If you were to do that, maybe, just maybe some of you would change you song and dance.

[dog7771]

These are human beings, not machines or robots. They need rest, mental health breaks, and medical attention. Clean food and water would also be nice. This is simply a SUBVERSIVE WAY OF RIDDING OUR POPULATION OF YOUNG MEN THAT CAN STOP THE NEOCONS FROM TAKING OVER, EITHER BY VOTING THEM OUT (MIDDLE CLASS) OR BY FIGHTING THEM PHYSICALLY (1776 again) JUST LIKE THOSE TEXAS CULTISTS, GET RID OF THE YOUNG MALES AND DEGRADE THE FEMALES. IF THEY CARED ABOUT OUR VETS, THEY WOULD ALLOW THE PROPER REST TIMES AND GIVE THEM THE MEDICAL/MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT THEY NEED AND DESERVE. YOU NAYSAYERS ARE SICK, AND ARE PART OF THE BUSH DEATH SQUADS. DON''T THINK THEY CARE ABOUT YOU, YOU WILL BE STARVING AND UNABLE TO PAY YOUR RENT SOON ENOUGH! THEN COME CRYING TO THE "LIBERALS" TO HELP YOU OUT. HAHAHAHA!

[hbevis]

To Riptide213

I am glad to hear back from you on the serving matter.
What I don''t understand is the complaining part about the Military using the Stop Loss part of the contract that everyone signs when they enter the service. I know everyone thinks and feels different. But, I still think that this kind of talk is giving the people we are fighting the Resolve to keep going.

[hbevis]

To NavyChief8.

I worked for the Navy many years ago doing research and
Development work. I also worked for the USAF for many years doing the same type of work. I have been retired for a number of years. And the troops are on my mind almost 24/7. Thanks for serving this great country of our''s.

[hbevis]

NavyChief8

Is this comment directed to me? ---I understand how you all feel. But your comments don''''t help us, the troops. If so tell me what I have said wrong and I will surely correct the problem.

Continued,

Yes there is considerable debate about Iraq. But most will agree that we need to be in the Stan. In WW2 people had to go with out basic goods and sevices for the War effort. Scrap drives, war bonds, loose lips sink ships, it was part of our Identity, who we were. i don''''t think that people are the same today. Maybe we have become to much of a society of consummers, rather than producers. I understand how you all feel. But your comments don''''t help us, the troops. Let''''s finish this thing (the war) then we can have a debate. Ultimately, history will be the judge of us. But I know if we don''''t finish what we started, we will be back again.... and again.

Posted by NavyChief8 at 03:49 PM : Apr 22, 2008

[riptide213]

To answer hbevis.

Yes. I proudly served my complete military service obligation in our great all volunteer force plus an extra 15 months supporting Operation Enduring Freedom in SWA from October 2001 on you guessed it; Stop Loss.

At that time, days after 9/11 military members signing their Stop Loss notification paperwork (no one had heard the term before, so we had to be briefed) did not blink an eye or voice one disgruntled word about doing what had to be done for the country.

I always have and always will support our troops.

They are our ultimate source of combat capability to fight terrorism and protect America%u2019s freedoms.

Activate Selective Service or don%u2019t have it / fund it. A genuine need for Stop Loss is long past.

Sorry to see same so called emergency clause of Stop Loss and sense of urgency for immediate national security peril still being used or perhaps now abused at this point in 2008 for long term sustained operations still on going in Afghanistan and now also in Iraq.

As many before me did, I did, many do now, and many more will do in the future; military members will always do their duty.

Diplomats are just as essential in starting a war as soldiers are in finishing it. Will Rogers

[riptide213]

To answer hbevis.

Yes. I proudly served my complete military service obligation in our great all volunteer force plus an extra 15 months supporting Operation Enduring Freedom in SWA from October 2001 on you guessed it; Stop Loss.

At that time, days after 9/11 military members signing their Stop Loss notification paperwork (no one had heard the term before, so we had to be briefed) did not blink an eye or voice one disgruntled word about doing what had to be done for the country.

I always have and always will support our troops.

They are our ultimate source of combat capability to fight terrorism and protect America%u2019s freedoms.

Activate Selective Service or don%u2019t have it / fund it. A genuine need for Stop Loss is long past.

Sorry to see same so called emergency clause of Stop Loss and sense of urgency for immediate national security peril still being used or perhaps now abused at this point in 2008 for long term sustained operations still on going in Afghanistan and now also in Iraq.

As many before me did, I did, many do now, and many more will do in the future; military members will always do their duty.

Diplomats are just as essential in starting a war as soldiers are in finishing it. Will Rogers

[navychief8]

ways to do this..

increase R&D, build more drones

stop being politically correct and conduct a more ''''unorthodox'''' type of warfare.

Posted by libsrweak at 04:12 PM : Apr 22, 2008

Drones are great and have their uses. R&D gives us cool stuff. But you need to the boot on the ground to control the situation.

[navychief8]

One last note about officers and resigning their commisions. Why is this policy in place? It is not done out of preferential treatment for Offciers. The fact is, you may be able to force someone to serve in the Military, but you can''t force someone to lead. Yes, enlisted personnel are leaders to (I am a Navy Chief), but you can''t force a person to command. That is what offciers do. So it has to be of their own free will. And for the record, these are my opinions based on my service.

[libsrweak]

2 ways to do this..

increase R&D, build more drones

stop being politically correct and conduct a more ''unorthodox'' type of warfare.

[navychief8]

What civilian employer has ever told an employee - "No, you can''''t retire - we''''re going to make you stay another year." ?? Not one that I know of.

Posted by momtothree96 at 09:14 AM : Apr 22, 2008

Exaactly, we are not civilians. In fact as members of the Military, we have to live up to a higher standard than the average Civilian we swore an oath to protect.

[navychief8]

Continued,

Yes there is considerable debate about Iraq. But most will agree that we need to be in the Stan. In WW2 people had to go with out basic goods and sevices for the War effort. Scrap drives, war bonds, loose lips sink ships, it was part of our Identity, who we were. i don''t think that people are the same today. Maybe we have become to much of a society of consummers, rather than producers. I understand how you all feel. But your comments don''t help us, the troops. Let''s finish this thing (the war) then we can have a debate. Ultimately, history will be the judge of us. But I know if we don''t finish what we started, we will be back again.... and again.

[navychief8]

have a family member, as we speak, that is in training right now to go to Iraq or Afghanistan at the end of this year. They are in a Helicopter Unit and are training day and night firing Weapons and Rockets. As a lot of Units are doing. Training is rough because we are against a tough and rough enemy. I want to ask a question of anyone reading these notes. Why do you have to be running down our government during a time of War?? All you are doing is giving support to the people that we are fighting. And giving them the RESLOVE to just hang in there and we will just give up and leave. If I had my way we would have 500,00
Troops over there to bring this whole mess to an end. We did it during WW-II. Why not now.

Posted by hbevis at 03:29 PM : Apr 22, 2008

My Friend, I understand your worries, concerns, and sentiments. I to will be departing for Iraq in August. I will be doing a tour with the Army Corps of Engineers (provincial reconstruction team). The fact is, and this is my opinion, America has had to sacrificed very little since 9/11. Sure, the economy is not the best, and the housing market is down. But what have we really sacrificed in support of the war?

[hbevis]

I will admit that I was upset to some extent when I found out that our troops were having their time extended. But I figured that there was some explanation. And NavyChief8 has given us that very thing.
I have a family member, as we speak, that is in training right now to go to Iraq or Afghanistan at the end of this year. They are in a Helicopter Unit and are training day and night firing Weapons and Rockets. As a lot of Units are doing. Training is rough because we are against a tough and rough enemy. I want to ask a question of anyone reading these notes. Why do you have to be running down our government during a time of War?? All you are doing is giving support to the people that we are fighting. And giving them the RESLOVE to just hang in there and we will just give up and leave. If I had my way we would have 500,000 Troops over there to bring this whole mess to an end. We did it during WW-II. Why not now.

[hbevis]

I will admit that I was upset to some extent when I found out that our troops were having their time extended. But I figured that there was some explanation. And NavyChief8 has given us that very thing.
I have a family member, as we speak, that is in training right now to go to Iraq or Afghanistan at the end of this year. They are in a Helicopter Unit and are training day and night firing Weapons and Rockets. As a lot of Units are doing. Training is rough because we are against a tough and rough enemy. I want to ask a question of anyone reading these notes. Why do you have to be running down our government during a time of War?? All you are doing is giving support to the people that we are fighting. And giving them the RESLOVE to just hang in there and we will just give up and leave. If I had my way we would have 500,00
Troops over there to bring this whole mess to an end. We did it during WW-II. Why not now.

[navychief8]

RE: NavyChier8. Thanks for the correct information. I served from 1955 until 1959 in the USAF. So,
I have been out of the loop for many years.


Posted by hbevis at 03:15 PM : Apr 22, 2008

Your welcome. "At a boy, give em the guns!" And thank you for your service! On a side note, My Grandpa served in WW2 as a P-47 Thuderbolt pilot in the Pacific theater. He recently gave me his wings, medals and some momentos. When I retire, I am going to place his things in a shadow box mext to mine. So although I bleed Blue and Gold, I have a soft spot for the Airforce!

[navychief8]

those who volunteered to serve with good intent, honor, and have fulfilled a service obligation is disrespectful.

Using small print tactics to magically extent their now indentured service at the convenience of the President is unbecoming of even America%u2019s increasingly distasteful politics.

Whatever ever happened to Lincoln%u2019s government of the people, by the people, for the people

Posted by Riptide213 at 01:53 PM : Apr 22, 2008

Riptide, my suggestion is this: If you feel so strongly about this, and feel so badly for myself and my fellow service persons, man up! Go down to your recruiter and tell him/her that you want to ease the burden, and by enlisting, you want a Soldier to be released from their extension.