Finding The Truth In Eldorado

Is The FLDS Raid About Stopping Child Abuse, Or Is Freedom Of Religion Being Abused?

(CBS)  Strong emotions exist on both sides of the debate and nobody involved wants to see children get hurt, but in the case of 416 children removed from a religious sect's compound in Texas, how do you compromise when you're negotiating with people who live by religious laws in conflict with U.S. law? CBS News' Hari Sreenivasan has been talking to people on both sides of the question.

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"This is about children who are at imminent risk of harm," said Texas Child Protective Service's Marleigh Meisner.

"We are very much against child abuse in our society," insisted a representative of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

So which is it?

When Texas authorities raided the Yearning for Zion ranch in Eldorado, Texas, they not only brought out 416 children, they brought a reclusive society blinking into the sunlight.

"They came in with guns," said one horrified resident of the ranch. "They were armed - SWAT teams - we were removed from our homes at gunpoint."

They are members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or FLDS. CBS News correspondent Hari Sreenivasan sat down with three of the FLDS women: Janet, Amy and Sally.

"We're different and we hold many things sacred," one of them told Sreenivasan, "but that doesn't mean we're trying to hide wrongdoing."

But in two days of child custody hearings, a judge heard testimony about underage girls giving birth and arranged plural marriages.

"The majority of marriages that we're aware of happen between 14 and 16, said Flora Jessup. "However, we do know of marriages that have occurred to as young as 8- or 9-year-old children."

Jessup escaped from the FLDS 22 years ago and is now a CBS News consultant. She says marriages are arranged by their leader, whom they call a prophet.

"All the girls' names are added into this book called the 'Joy Book,' and the prophet goes through and gets revelation from God," explained Jessup.

Marci Hamilton, a church and state scholar at Cardozo Law School in New York, is an expert on childhood sex abuse. She has one word for it: pedophilia.

"They've created a society in which it's appropriate to have sex with girls as young as 13," said Hamilton. "And also, it's an organization that operates on a patriarchal system, so that men are in charge; women are subservient; and the children are beneath the women."

Sreenivasan asked the FLDS women if they felt it was okay for a young woman who is still a teenager to be married to a man who could be twice her age.

"If that happened," answered Sally, "she would be very much loved and taken care of. There's no fear of anything like that."

Polygamy has been outlawed by the Mormon church for more than one hundred years, but FLDS members say they are clinging to the original teachings of church founder Joseph Smith. They believe it's a matter of religious faith - faith that Jim Bradshaw, a lawyer representing the FLDS, says has been attacked by this month's raids.

"In terms of a parallel in modern American history of violation of civil rights, I don't know that there is one," said Bradshaw. "To take away that many children from that many families based upon something that's completely unsubstantiated, that doesn't appear to have any foundation in credibility, it's ludicrous."

But there IS a parallel. Fifty-five years ago, in 1953, the government raided a remote FLDS compound at Short Creek, on the Arizona-Utah border.

More than 100 police went in, arresting several dozen men; 86 women and 263 children were taken into custody. Reporters were invited along on the raid, a strategy, says Peg McEntee, an assistant managing editor at the Salt Lake Tribune, that backfired.

"There were cameras and news people there who recorded this entire event, and those images and stories went all across the nation, which rose up and indignation and shock that the state had just arbitrarily raided this place and taken all these people into their custody," recalled McEntee.

Life magazine headlined "The Lonely Men of Short Creek," who were stunned as they had to make their own breakfast.

"The men were ultimately placed on probation," said McEntee, "were made to promise that they would never indulge in polygamy again. The women were kept as wards of the states. Many of the children lived in foster homes for about two years until they were released and allowed to go back. What happened was everybody just went back to Short Creek and began their lives again."

Today Short Creek is still an FLDS stronghold, now called the communities of Colorado City, Arizona and Hilldale, Utah.

The next major police action against the FLDS came just two years ago, with the arrest of reputed leader Warren Jeffs. He was convicted of rape as an accomplice, for arranging marriages to underage girls.

His major accuser was Elissa Wall, who testified she was forced into marriage at the age of 14. After the trial, the now 21-year-old Wall felt the case had sent a message.

"I hope all FLDS girls and women will understand that no matter what anyone may say, you are created equal," said Wall.

How has that message been received?

"I know you didn't set out to be making statements on behalf of your faith or your practice, Sreenivasan told the FLDS women, "but how would you help people understand that your kids are safe here?"

"Well, to begin with," one of them answered, "our leader teaches us how to be clean and pure and virtuous. The men teach us, we follow their direction because it's the best way of life. And they themselves are clean and pure."

There are months, perhaps years of legal fighting ahead for the men, women and children of Eldorado. If there are criminal convictions, Professor Hamilton believes it would be the end of this compound.

"There is nothing in the First Amendment that says that any religious group has the right to exist," she said, "no matter what they do."

But Peg McEntee says, keep in mind the lessons of the raid of 1953.

"I do know they are people strong in their faith," she said, "strong in their convictions, and as we saw in Short Creek they kept to their faith, to their families, kept to their way of life. And I see that as a great possibility in the years to come after this raid."

As for the women of Yearning for Zion, they just want it to be over with and to be left alone.

"We've been out in the world. We were raised in the world. We know what it's like," said one.

"We chose," another explained. "We chose to be here because it is such a wonderful life here."

[grandysw]

I would like to express appreciation for your news story noting that the FLDS Church is in no way associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, it was frustrating that the background music used in the story was The Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Since the choir is likely the most well-known element of the LDS Church, using it in your story about polygamy once again underscored the myth that the Church practices and endorses polygamy. It is also important to understand that while the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy for a short time 138 years ago, it was never intended to become a church-wide practice or policy. LDS Church doctrine has never endorsed the abuse of young women and children or the subjection of them to subservience.

[grandysw]

I would like to express appreciation for your news story noting that the FLDS Church is in no way associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. However, it was frustrating that the background music used in the story was The Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Since the choir is likely the most well-known element of the LDS Church, using it in your story about polygamy once again underscored the myth that the Church practices and endorses polygamy. It is also important to understand that while the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practiced polygamy for a short time 138 years ago, it was never intended to become a church-wide practice or policy. LDS Church doctrine has never endorsed the abuse of young women and children or the subjection of them to subservience.

[pjoseph133]

And, raising children without access to GameBoys and Television is NOT abuse. Getting married at an early age is not illegal and abusive in and of itself. With parental consent girls in Texas at 16 may marry; and with an order from a judge can marry as young as 14 (before 2001 she could be 13). A number of other States allow marriage with parental consent as young as 12. [By the way she doesn''t need parental consent to have *** and get pregnant at 17, but she does still need parental approval to marry the guy.]

Whether I agree with their religious views or not, they didn''t just dream them up yesterday. They have been continually practicing their faith for over a century. In fact, their ancestors practiced polygamy BEFORE it became illegal in the US. While Israel doesn''t allow it''s citizens to marry multiple wifes, it acknowledges that if an immigrant to Israel had multiple wives from a community elsewhere in the world where it was the community norm, then Israel acknowledges and accepts their marriage. A number of Muslim countries follow a similar view, paying attention to whether the marriages were consummated in line with the local community norm.

[pjoseph133]

I am horrified that a women in Arizona can make a false report by calling and claiming that she is an underage girl who is being abused; with the consequences being that Texas authorities can raid every building in a community. I know of plenty of small Texas communities. If someone in Washington makes a call to Texas authorities, then an entire community might be subjected to a blanket search and seizure without any evidence or proof of a crime? The 4th amendment means nothing if a Judge can blanket a search of every home.

[krisd999-2009]

It''s time to round up the Jews too. Don''t they declare boys to be men at 14 in their secretive barmitzva ceremonies. Who knows what goes on, so lets round them all up. There are about 6 million of them so we''ll need some concentrated place to keep them. The Catholic church likes little boys too and members keep going back even though they know what their priests do, so rounding up the whole congregations would be advisable too. Send in the SWAT! Why can''t these people be normal like the man getting DNA tested about fathering 5 children with 4 women on the Maury show the other day. He is a normal guy, not a polygamist. Since the precedent will be now set, any teenager giving birth earlier than 18 years 9 months should have her baby DNA tested and the father identified for prosecution.

[sevenveils]

This religon reduces the woman to nothing but a baby factory. She is trained from birth to obey without question her husband. The upbringing of women in this cult makes the women of the most fundamentalist Islamic faith seem liberated.

[brianbwb-2009]

The constitution forbids laws that abridge freedom of religion, but it has not been determined what constitutes a religion.

[aggiekat2004]

Zombies...these women are zombies. No life in them whatsoever...timid and subservient. This is sick!

[sspaur]

Lets look at what is really going on. Texas has over steped it authority. Take over 400 kids from their homes becasue they could be abused. I guess they will close all Cathloic and churces next since Preist have abused kids in both settings. If they cannot close the schools and churches Im sure they will want to remove all the children from the homes of parents that decide to send their children to places whre Priest may be. Where will it stop? Time for the Federal Courts to get involved.

[rwexler648]

We hear the mothers deny anything was wrong and the state justify tearing the children not only from the ranch but also from their mothers because it will be easier to get their stories out of them. (Maybe so. Waterboarding the children also would be an easy way to get their stories %u2013 but that%u2019s not a good idea either).
But here%u2019s the third side of the story: The children may have needed to be removed from the ranch. But under the laws that govern American child welfare systems there is no way they%u2019re going back until and unless their %u201Cstories%u201D are fully known; and probably not then, either. So there was no excuse for further traumatizing them by tearing them from their mothers. And Texas CPS has announced it%u2019s even going to separate infants from their mothers. Why? So the infants will be more likely to talk? There is no reason the children and their mothers could not be resettled, in effect, as refugees.
The actions of Texas CPS remind me more than anything of a notorious comment made by a general during the Vietnam War. Surveying the destruction of a village he explained that %u201Cwe had to destroy the village in order to save it.%u201D
So here%u2019s the third side of the story in Texas: Don%u2019t destroy these children in order to save them
Richard Wexler
National Coalition for Child Protection Reform
www.nccpr.org

[rwexler648]

We hear the mothers deny anything was wrong and the state justify tearing the children not only from the ranch but also from their mothers because it will be easier to get their stories out of them. (Maybe so. Waterboarding the children also would be an easy way to get their stories %u2013 but that%u2019s not a good idea either).
But here%u2019s the third side of the story: The children may have needed to be removed from the ranch. But under the laws that govern American child welfare systems there is no way they%u2019re going back until and unless their %u201Cstories%u201D are fully known; and probably not then, either. So there was no excuse for further traumatizing them by tearing them from their mothers. And Texas CPS has announced it%u2019s even going to separate infants from their mothers. Why? So the infants will be more likely to talk? There is no reason the children and their mothers could not be resettled, in effect, as refugees.
The actions of Texas CPS remind me more than anything of a notorious comment made by a general during the Vietnam War. Surveying the destruction of a village he explained that %u201Cwe had to destroy the village in order to save it.%u201D
So here%u2019s the third side of the story in Texas: Don%u2019t destroy these children in order to save them
Richard Wexler
National Coalition for Child Protection Reform
www.nccpr.org

[rwexler648]

We hear the mothers deny anything was wrong and the state justify tearing the children not only from the ranch but also from their mothers because it will be easier to get their stories out of them. (Maybe so. Waterboarding the children also would be an easy way to get their stories %u2013 but that%u2019s not a good idea either).
But here%u2019s the third side of the story: The children may have needed to be removed from the ranch. But under the laws that govern American child welfare systems there is no way they%u2019re going back until and unless their %u201Cstories%u201D are fully known; and probably not then, either. So there was no excuse for further traumatizing them by tearing them from their mothers. And Texas CPS has announced it%u2019s even going to separate infants from their mothers. Why? So the infants will be more likely to talk? There is no reason the children and their mothers could not be resettled, in effect, as refugees.
The actions of Texas CPS remind me more than anything of a notorious comment made by a general during the Vietnam War. Surveying the destruction of a village he explained that %u201Cwe had to destroy the village in order to save it.%u201D
So here%u2019s the third side of the story in Texas: Don%u2019t destroy these children in order to save them
Richard Wexler
National Coalition for Child Protection Reform
www.nccpr.org

[krisd999-2009]

It''s time to round up the Jews too. Don''t they declare boys to be men at 14 in their secretive barmitzva ceremonies. Who knows what goes on, so lets round them all up. There are about 6 million of them so we''ll need some concentrated place to keep them. The Catholic church likes little boys too and members keep going back even though they know what their priests do, so rounding up the whole congregations would be advisable too. Send in the SWAT! Why can''t these people be normal like the man getting DNA tested about fathering 5 children with 4 women on the Maury show the other day. He is a normal guy, not a polygamist. Since the precedent will be now set, any teenager giving birth earlier than 18 years 9 months should have her baby DNA tested and the father identified for prosecution.

[idnnsg]

W-A-C-K-O-S, pure and simple. On second thought, perhaps they are suffering from a genetic defect. In either case, they should not be allowed to continue their pedophilia.

The Colorado City/Hildale area has the world''s highest incidence of fumarase deficiency, an extremely rare genetic condition which causes severe mental retardation. Geneticists attribute this to the prevalence of cousin marriage between descendants of two of the town''s founders, Joseph Smith Jessup and John Yeates Barlow; one local historian reports that 75%u201380 percent of the double-communities'' roughly 10,000 inhabitants are descended from one or both of these men.

[idnnsg]

W-A-C-K-O-S, pure and simple. On second thought, perhaps they are suffering from a genetic defect. In either case, they should not be allowed to continue their pedophilia.

The Colorado City/Hildale area has the world''s highest incidence of fumarase deficiency, an extremely rare genetic condition which causes severe mental retardation. Geneticists attribute this to the prevalence of cousin marriage between descendants of two of the town''s founders, Joseph Smith Jessup and John Yeates Barlow; one local historian reports that 75%u201380 percent of the double-communities'' roughly 10,000 inhabitants are descended from one or both of these men.

[idnnsg]

W-A-C-K-O-S, pure and simple. On second thought, perhaps they are suffering from a genetic defect. In wither case, they should not be allowed to continue their pedophilia.

The Colorado City/Hildale area has the world''s highest incidence of fumarase deficiency, an extremely rare genetic condition which causes severe mental retardation. Geneticists attribute this to the prevalence of cousin marriage between descendants of two of the town''s founders, Joseph Smith Jessup and John Yeates Barlow; one local historian reports that 75%u201380 percent of the double-communities'' roughly 10,000 inhabitants are descended from one or both of these men.

[krisd999-2009]

It''s time to round up the Jews too. Don''t they declare boys to be men at 14 in their secretive barmitzva ceremonies. Who knows what goes on, so lets round them all up. There are about 6 million of them so we''ll need some concentrated place to keep them. The Catholic church likes little boys too and members keep going back even though they know what their priests do, so rounding up the whole congregations would be advisable too. Send in the SWAT! Why can''t these people be normal like the man getting DNA tested about fathering 5 children with 4 women on the Maury show the other day. He is a normal guy, not a polygamist. Since the precedent will be now set, any teenager giving birth earlier than 18 years 9 months should have her baby DNA tested and the father identified for prosecution.

[wlmrtpatriot]

I will be happy when the media goes on to other issues.

[jerr11]

Now we have the truth on Eldorado, how about getting to the truth about the Iraq war?

In Eldorado they created a phony religion to practice pedophilia with impunity.

In Iraq, the neocons created a war to loot the nation''s treasury with impunity!

$12 Billion a month in Iraq. That''s a lot of cash for Bush and his cronies at Halliburton!

[mft0707]

What''s going to happen to the FLDS kids next?

Watch this for yourself...

http://video.woai.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=55809&tf=woaiviewer.tpl

Maybe putting them back with their mothers would be better...

Texas should stop trying to "save" people...they end up destroying lives instead...watch it to find the truth of what''s next for these kids ripped out of their mothers arms...

http://video.woai.com/viewer/viewerpage.php?Art_ID=55809&tf=woaiviewer.tpl