Did Weak Rivets Help Do In The Titanic?

Authors Point To Them As Reason Ship Sank As Quickly As It Did

(CBS/AP)  The tragic sinking of the Titanic nearly a century ago can be blamed on low-grade rivets that the ship's builders used on some parts of the ill-fated liner, two experts on metals conclude in a new book.

The company, Harland and Wolff of Belfast, Northern Ireland, needed to build the ship quickly and at reasonable cost, which may have compromised quality, said co-author Timothy Foecke. That the shipyard was building two other vessels at the same time added to the difficulty of getting the millions of rivets needed, he added.

"Under the pressure to get these ships up, they ramped up the riveters, found materials from additional suppliers, and some was not of quality," said Foecke, a metallurgist at the U.S. government's National Institute of Standards and Technology who has been studying the Titanic for a decade.

The company denies book's conclusions.

More than 1,500 people died when the Titanic, advertised as an "unsinkable" luxury liner, struck an iceberg on its maiden voyage in 1912 and went down in the North Atlantic less than three hours later.

"The company knowingly purchased weaker rivets, but I think they did it not knowing they would be purchasing something substandard enough that when they hit an iceberg their ship would sink," said co-author Jennifer Hooper McCarty, who started researching the Titanic's rivets while working on her Ph.D. at Johns Hopkins University in 1999.

On The Early Show Saturday, Jeff Glor asked McCarty if she felt the company was using sub-par iron.

"Exactly," she responded. "A rivet works by holding two plates together on a ship. And, during the collision, pressure, or load on that plate would have caused the heads of the rivets to pop open. So, the theory really is that the sub-quality iron caused weak rivets, and therefore, the seams were weak, and opened up during the collision.

McCarty says it was "an engineering decision" to use the rivets they did, "and, considering the other safety factors on the ship, they felt it would be OK to do so. I mean, it was a one-in-a-million chance that all of these events would come together and cause this disaster. So, it's difficult to say that they could have known something like this would happen."

The company disputes the idea that inferior rivets were at fault. The theory has been around for years, but McCarty and Foecke's book, "What Really Sank the Titanic: New Forensic Discoveries," published last month, outlines their extensive research into the Harland and Wolff archives and surviving rivets from the Titanic.

"It's difficult for them to be able to counterpoint all of our arguments," McCarty remarked to Glor, "given that there's so much in the (company) archives that we've gone through."

McCarty spent two years in Britain studying the company's archives and works on the training and working conditions of shipyard workers. She and Foecke also studied engineering textbooks from the 1890s and early 1900s to learn more about shipbuilding practices and materials.

"I had the opportunity to study the metallurgy of several rivets," McCarty said. "It was a process of taking thousands of images of the inside of these rivets, finding out what the structure was like, doing chemical testing and computer modeling.

"Seeing the kind of levels we saw in different areas, in different parts of the ship led us to believe they would have ordered from different people," she said, adding this may have led to the weaker rivets.

The two metallurgists tested 48 rivets from the ship and found that slag concentrations were at 9 percent, when they should have been 2 to 3 percent. The slag is a byproduct of the smelting process.

[hypnotoad72]

I''m no expert, but sufficient force applied onto an object would go beyond its ability to withstand pressure.

Even if the rivets had not been bought from a cheaper source, or whatever the conditions may have been at the time, excessive force could have caused enough damage anyway. Icebergs are pretty solid entities; the sort you don''t want to pummel with in your local ocean, or bar.

As were the "design flaws" of the I35W bridge in Minneapolis. Were the rivets or the bridge designed to handle x amount of traffic, including vehicles of y weight at z intervals throughout the day? Between its time of construction and its collapse, several variables changed, and not for the better. But I digress.

[haoli25]

I am pretty sure that it was ''weak'' acting.

[aztecdakota]

Dark night, bad vision for the men on watch, Captain trying to break a speed record, and incidently, there was this REALLY BIG ICEBERG, directly in front of them, while they were running at top speed. Can anyone guess what happened? That ship could have been triple riveted, it was doomed, by human error, in the ships'' executive department.

[flajoe1]

"Did Weak Rivets Help Do In The Titanic?"

No, gravity did in the Titanic!
----

Posted by dragonwagon5 at 11:19 AM : Apr 19, 2008

Along with a lot of freaking water!

[naucoming4u]

Cutting corners for the sake of higher profit, ends up killing thousands of innocent people.


Now that''s a headline for the ages!

[imnho]

Gravity. Not just a good idea,its the law(of Physics)

[naucoming4u]

Gravity. Not just a good idea,its the law(of Physics)

Posted by IMNHO at 02:01 PM : Apr 19, 2008
............

You''ve never seen an 80+ year old woman naked have you?!

[wlmrtpatriot]

Happy Titanic sinking day! The new international Holiday. A paid holiday to stay home and watch Leonardo DiCaprio in a movie I hated. Also national rename a street day--how about Titanic Avenue, Titanic Blvd.Titanic Drive. I''m sure faulty contract work caused this...and gravity.
I am sorry people lost their lives in this tragedy.
Today I suppose is the day to honor these people.
(Not the movie)

[providence_h]

The sinking of the titanic is the biggest lesson on what happens when we do not look ahead in life. Its a shipwreck beyond belief. The shipwreck Soul can be found at http colon slash slash www dot pilgrimswaylighted dot blogspot dot com. This site addresses the reason to look ahead in life.

[providence_h]

The Titanic tragedy will always be remembered. The sinking of the titanic is the biggest lesson on what happens when we do not look ahead in life. Its a shipwreck beyond belief. The shipwreck Soul can be found at http colon slash slash www dot pilgrimswaylighted dot blogspot dot com. This site addresses the reason to look ahead in life.

[ontheleft]

Bush is the reincarnation of Captain Smith. Like Smith, Bush has steered us right into an iceberg and once again, there are not enough lifeboats to go around. Funny how history repeats itself.

[flajoe1]

Bush is the reincarnation of Captain Smith. Like Smith, Bush has steered us right into an iceberg and once again, there are not enough lifeboats to go around. Funny how history repeats itself. -----

Posted by ontheleft at 03:08 PM

Clinton is the reincarnation of Captain Smith. Like Smith, Clinton has steered us right into an iceberg and once again, there are not enough lifeboats to go around. Funny how history repeats itself.

Obama is the reincarnation of Captain Smith. Like Smith, Obama has steered us right into an iceberg and once again, there are not enough lifeboats to go around. Funny how history repeats itself.

McCain is the reincarnation of Captain Smith. Like Smith, McCain has steered us right into an iceberg and once again, there are not enough lifeboats to go around. Funny how history repeats itself.

[spy-vs-spy_]

The Titanic tragedy will always be remembered. The sinking of the titanic is the biggest lesson on what happens when we do not look ahead in life. Its a shipwreck beyond belief. The shipwreck Soul can be found at http colon slash slash www dot pilgrimswaylighted dot blogspot dot com. This site addresses the reason to look ahead in life.

[caliengineer]

The fate of the Titanic was sealed when one of the principal investors proclaimed, "Not even God can sink this ship!"

He was wrong.

[jankebenz]

The popping rivet theory is just that, a theory with weak evidence at that. I''ve seen the section of the hull of the titanic displayed at an exhibtion.The rivets showed little sign of popping, even though being subjected to tremendous forces when the ship ripped in halve. The more likely cause of the sinking, was that the ice tore through about 300 feet of plating thereby dooming the ship.Navel engineers have stated that had the titanic struck the iceberg head on, it would not have sunk. In any event, the tragedy was an expensive lesson in marine hazards, and served to improve safety on ocean ships.

[hoopersports]

How some of you bring George W Bush into this is beyond me. dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb people

[sblake63]

Lmao I just had to come look at the comments for this one. I just knew the left wing and yes you so called moderates would find a way to tie this story to Bush.

Next thing you know somebody will come on here and say that corporate greed caused the sinking of the Titanic because they wanted to save money on the rivets etc etc. Get over it, here''s some facts for you wackos!

There will never be universal health care. Face it, learn it and live it. This isnt europe!

There will ALWAYS be poor people, caused for the most part by their own screw ups!

Only one way to heaven - Christ.

Peace on earth? Not till Christ Returns

End of the war in Iraq? Umm no matter who''s right or wrong, we are in too deep. Too many security concerns. Hillary and Obama and LIARS they can not pull troops out!

And finally, there is no utopia LMAO. Protest, vote, scream, make fun of conservatives. Tell 1000 Bush jokes - What ever! The basic nature of man is evil - Period. You have already lost! It does not get any better till you make it to Heaven, assuming you even make it there :)

P.S. The titanic sunk almost 100 years ago and in 1912 they did not have the quality controls or knowledge of metallurgy like we do now. So why is this news?

[cattlekate]

Posted by jankebenz at 05:07 PM : Apr 19, 2008
Good Post, thank you.

I have heard the same about the head-on theory - that the hard a starboard doomed the ship.

And it took me a while to understand why the ship really turned to port.

Aye Aye, the story is still fascinating!

[bardesbp]

Until several World War II Liberty ships broke apart in cold (below 40 degrees) water, metallurgists didn''t know that steel gets brittle at low temperatures. I haven''t read the book in question, but if the authors didn''t consider the impact strength of the rivets at 32 degrees, they missed the point of examining the rivets.

[newsterl]

Corporate greed and cost cutting is a FACT of life, but in 1911 steel was still new and they didn''t have the testing ability we do now.

beamish99- that''s right, the compartments were not sealed to the ceiling- lousy design.


"The popping rivet theory is just that, a theory with weak evidence at that. I''''ve seen the section of the hull of the titanic displayed at an exhibtion.The rivets showed little sign of popping,
Posted by jerkaboner

Ummm if you knew anything about this ship''s hull and steel fabrication- the rivets are the weakest connection- they are like stitching on a pair of pants, you bend over too far the first thing that tears is the SEAM- the weakest part.
You saw *A SECTION* of plate, you did not see the portion buried under the mud still that had failed. The plates themselves made of the same steel being pushed in by the force of a collision- the rivets will fail.

The problem was with the steel- it was basically cast-iron- not maleable- you hit a piece of cast iron like and old bathtub hard with a hammer it will crack and break- you can break up an old tub with a hammer. The issue with steel is make it too HARD to strengthen it- it can break like cast iron, reduce it a bit to make it less brittle and it becomes too soft and easy to BEND and subject to fatigue failure and excess wear.
The ships steel was too brittle to begin with.

[gce65]

Weak rivets? I thought it was that pesky iceberg! Or simple gravity!

[spy-vs-spy_]

The Titanic tragedy will always be remembered. The sinking of the titanic is the biggest lesson on what happens when we do not look ahead in life. Its a shipwreck beyond belief. The shipwreck Soul can be found at http colon slash slash www dot pilgrimswaylighted dot blogspot dot com. This site addresses the reason to look ahead in life.

[j_flood]

Can we let this go? I''m so not interested in the Titanic - haven''t we played this out far beyond it''s use by date? Rivets smivets - it sunk - end of story.

[downsteamjim]

George Bush has so caused global warming that it has now become retroactive.

[thgdriver]

Can we let this go? I''''m so not interested in the Titanic - haven''''t we played this out far beyond it''''s use by date? Rivets smivets - it sunk - end of story.

Posted by j_flood

Then why did you click on this story in the first place?

Shut up and go away fool!

[thgdriver]

Well, except today when hard news is too much for the pups and we need to be fed something easier to digest.

Open wide... don''''t look at the world going to hell all around you...

Posted by sincityq

The choice of news story''s is wide open. You did not have to click in here either.

Shut up and go away fool!

[thgdriver]

P.S. The titanic sunk almost 100 years ago and in 1912 they did not have the quality controls or knowledge of metallurgy like we do now. So why is this news?

Posted by sblake63

If the story did not interest you why did you click in here in the first place. You are the third "Fool'' to do this.

[thgdriver]

This is an extremely interesting point the authors make.

I seem to recall a history channel show about this same theory about a year ago.

It''s a shame corporate greed was partly the cause of this disaster. It''s important that this sort of greed be pointed out no matter how much time passes.

Some have the audacity to log in here and tell the rest of us what should or should not interest us.

They log in here on a story that they say don''t interest them, thats got to be the dumbest thing yet.

[tucano2]

It''s been pretty well established, decades ago, that the combination of very cold water and an off-spec receipt
of steel contributed to the disaster. But the main reason for the un-necessary tragedy was the idiocy of the ship''s owner pressuring the Captain to take un-necessary risk in waters known to be very dangerous. Vanity and stupidity, far more than steel and temperature, killed, nay murdered, those that perished.

[thy1138]

Rivets were replaced by nuts and bolts in steel girder construction, specifically in the WTC maybe one of the first to exclusively use nuts and bolts. "Good better best never let it rest" till your good is better and your better is your best (seen on cast water tanks in Australia) leaves out the "best of best" rivets that went into the center section. I wonder if there was a grading of nuts? (and bolts). There''s a large nut factory "Star" on the NY State Thruway near Harriman that''s been bought by Kiryas Joel the Hasidim town mostly for the wells then the State has to put in a pipe to the aqueduct (Catch 23).

[marcpcbs]

I think that a high-speed collision with an iceberg may have weakened the rivets.

I don''t believe this article.

[newsterl]

...shipwreck beyond belief. The shipwreck Soul can be found at http colon slash slash www dot phuxjezus-lighted dot blogspot dot com. This site addresses the reason to look ahead in life.

Posted by SPY-VS-SPY


Still spamming with your gezus site I see RICK

[jaykay3141]

OK, it was almost a century ago and the ship and its passengers are gone, but that doesn''t mean we still can''t learn from it. To paraphrase Santayana, ignoring something because it''s "old news" makes it likely to become "new news" (!)

It''s surprising that no one mentioned the major reason for so many deaths: NOT ENOUGH LIFEBOATS. And why? The same cost-cutting, the same "it meets specs so that''s enough" mindset, the same antiquated rules that led to the use of substandard metal.

If death caused by technological hubris is "old news", please inform the families of the Challenger astronauts, the I-35 victims, the Meridian building firemen, and on and on.

P.S. "NAVAL" has to do with ships. "NAVEL" is your belly button. Sheesh.

[hbevis]

FROM WHAT I HAVE READ OVER THE YEARS THE TITANIC SUNK BECAUSE THE COMPARTMENT WERE NOT WATER TIGHT. IT SEEMS THAT THERE WAS NO TOP ON THE COMPARTMENTS. SO WHEN ENOUGH WATER GOT INTO THE SHIP IT SUNK. REMEMBER WHEN THE TITANIC WAS FOUND ON THE OCEAN FLOOR IT WAS IN TWO PIECES SOME DISTANCE APART. SO THE PEOPLE THAT WERE SURVIVORS WERE RIGHT WHEN THEY SAID THE SHIP BROKE APART JUST BEFORE IT WENT DOWN. THAT WOULD SEEM TO INDICATE THAT THE SEAMS IN THE PLATES WERE NOT STRONG ENOUGH. WHETHER IT WAS FROM RIVET STRENGTH OR THERE BEING TWO INSTEAD OF THREE RIVETS AT EACH POINT. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WHEN A BOLT OR RIVET IS UNDER A SHEAR CONDITION IT IS AS STRONG AS IT WOULD BE UNDER TENSION.

[titanicjulie]

i think its great that they are still reporting on the titanic. i just read 3 great books on the subject. ghosts of the abyss by ken marshall and don lynch, the night lives on by walter loyd and titanic by charles pelligreno. check these out if you want interesting reads about titanic. its great to read about everyones different takes on this disaster.