Some In Sect May Have Given Birth At 13

Investigator Testifies At Custody Hearing For Children Seized From Polygamist Compound

(CBS/AP)  After hours of lawyers popping up with similar objections and questions, a custody hearing for 416 children seized from a polygamist sect finally turned to whether they were abused: A child welfare worker said some women at the sect's ranch may have had children when they were minors, some as young as 13.

The testimony came late Thursday, the first day of a court hearing to determine whether the children, swept up in a raid on the ranch two weeks ago, will remain in state custody. Child welfare officials claim the children were abused or in imminent danger of abuse because the sect encourages girls younger than 18 to marry and have children.

Child welfare investigator Angie Voss testified that at least five girls who are younger than 18 are pregnant or have children. Voss said some of the women identified as adults with children may be juveniles, or may have had children when they were younger than 18.

Identifying children and parents has been difficult because members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have given different names and ages at various times, Voss said. The state has asked that DNA be taken from all of the children and their alleged parents to help determine biological connections. The judge has not ruled on that request.

One of the issues is whether authorities overstepped their bounds, reports CBS News correspondent Hari Sreenivasan. In a household where abuse is suspected, Texas law allows every child to be removed, so defining "household" could become pivotal.

In a possibly related development, police in Colorado Springs, Colo., have made an arrest of a 33-year-old woman and charged her with false reporting to authorities, reports Sreenivasan. At the moment, it is in an unrelated case, but the arrest did happen a day after Texas rangers were investigating what happened in San Angelo.

The court hearing, which continues Friday morning, disintegrated into farce early Thursday, as hundreds of lawyers who descended on San Angelo for the proceedings shouted objections or queued up to cross-examine witnesses. The judge struggled to maintain order.

"I've tried to impose some structure to this free-for-all," said Texas District Judge Barbara Walther.

The case - one of the biggest, most convoluted child-custody hearings in U.S. history - presented an extraordinary spectacle: big-city lawyers in suits and mothers in 19th-century, pioneer-style dresses, all packed into a historic courtroom and an auditorium two blocks away that was patched into the proceedings by a grainy video feed.

The state wants to keep the children in its custody, and likely move them to foster homes while officials continue investigating abuse allegations. The state must provide evidence the children were physically or sexually abused, or are in imminent danger of abuse.

In 11 hours on Thursday, only three witnesses testified, including Voss.

As lawyers shouted, dozens of mothers sat quietly in their long cotton dresses and braided upswept hair. They were sworn in as possible witnesses at the hearing's outset, but it was not clear when they might testify.

In the satellite courtroom at City Hall, hundreds of people strained to see and hear a large projector set up on the auditorium's stage. But the feed was blurry and barely audible.

"I'm not in a position to advocate for anything," complained Susan Hays, the appointed attorney for a 2-year-old sect member.

No decisions were made on the fate of any of the youngsters, and more cross-examination of Voss was likely Friday.

The children, most of whom are being kept in a domed coliseum in San Angelo, range in age from 6 months to 17 years. About 130 are under 4 years old, Voss said.

She said she was concerned about how the children and women followed the orders of the church's prophet, identified as jailed leader Warren Jeffs.

"The children reported that if the prophet heard from the Heavenly Father that they were to marry at any age, they were to do that. If the prophet said they were to lie, they were to do that," Voss said.

Jeffs is currently awaiting trial in a Kingman, Ariz., jail on charges related to the promotion of underage marriages. He previously was convicted of being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old wed to her cousin in a Utah case.

The sect came to West Texas in 2003, relocating some members from the church's traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. Voss said the ranch was considered a special place, the sect's Zion.

Authorities raided the 1,700-acre ranch south of here in Eldorado on April 3 and began removing children while seeking evidence of underage girls being married to adults. Walther signed an emergency order giving the state custody of the children taken from the ranch.

The raid was prompted by a call from someone identifying herself as a 16-year-old girl with the sect. She claimed her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her.

The girl has yet to be identified, though Voss said a girl matching her description was seen by other girls in the ranch garden four days before the raid began.

[rwm2_2000]

Crazy as it sounds we cannot put ANY restrictions on religion unless U do away w/all religion as in the schools. PLEASE PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTION!!!CALL UR CONGRESSMEN!!!NOW

[cpaide]

ha, and there is still NOTHING good proof and evidence of ANYTHING of this allegations made by the KLK (krazy lesbians kult) social workers, but clean good proof of this false police reports by that 30-year-old woman who is saying she is 16-year-old girl who is raped by nasty old mormans, but this 50-year-old man is living in arizona--not in texas! do not believe what this KLK is telling you!

[lizziegirl10]

Well first I need to inform people that this sect is not mormon..... They have different religious believes then the mainstream mormons in Utah. I know I am in Utah. So please stop calling them Mormon.
I have no issues if they want to practice polygamy but the real problem here is that children are being offered as wives when they are in their teenage years.Something some people also don''t know is that young boys that are teenagers are being kicked out of the culture for being a boy and a threat to these men having more wives. That''s sending a 13 year old boy to the wolves because you want to moleste his sister..... to me it''s fine if they want to be polygamist but they need to wait till the children are not children anymore.

[rwm2_2000]

PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL UR CONGRESSMEN NOW! I already have...We must protect our Constitution or our president won''t. He''s already called it just another sheet of paper! PLEASE EMAIL UR CONGRESSMEN NOW!

[rwm2_2000]

These folks TRULY believe in God yet our Gov''t is persecuting them. Why is what I''m wondering? I believe it''s because they can''t control them or their thoughts. The rest of us are controlled by our TV sets brainwashing us about the truth. Do U really think a guy in a cave in another country could send folks over here and do all the damage of 9-11. What about NORAD-they are suppose to be there to protect us. As far as them saying there wasn''t time, NORAD was able to tell us in 20 minutes what was going on with the Golfer who lost cabin pressure and died. He left Fla and his plane flew til it gave out of gas and crashed. It was an hour and 20 minutes between the time the 1st plane hit the 1st world trade center and the time the pentagon was hit. Are we to believe NORAD was asleep and if they were then why was NO ONE punished? I know this is about a completely different subject but it still boils down to-DO U TRUST THE GOV''T. They immediately started talking about National Security as Hitler did in 1933. PLEASE STAND UP FOR UR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS or U will lose them. The Gov''t has now started taking the DNA from prisoners saying they have no right to object. Unless they are no longer citizens of the US THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO OBJECT. And if we allow them to take about the citizenship of the prisoners they''ll have every right to sell body parts around the world, as China already does...PLEASE STAND UP FOR THE PRISONERS RIGHTS OR YOUR RIGHTS WILL BE IN JEOPARDY SOMEDAY

[blackyowe]

According to the AP, a CDC study found that 1 in 4 teen girls, aged 14 to 19, has a sexually transmitted disease in the USA. The infection rate among those who have ever had "relations" was 40%. Hmmmmm maybe all girls should cover up and wear long dresses I am thinking!

[facts6]

This sect is an old fhartz dream!

[maba7]

I''ve been trying to convince family members for years that we should get together and form our own church. No income taxes to pay, live very, very well, ask for money on national TV,and praise God all the way to the bank.
Now we have this group, they did mind their own business, but they don''t bother follow the law of the land. They are reclusive, but how do they support themselves?

[rwm2_2000]

Folks, Folks, Folks...It''s not about child abuse...It''s about the abuse of UR rights and UR childrens rights and the erosion of the CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA...Please don''t continue to think like they want U to and fuss amongst ourselves. Please run to the congressmen and fuss to them to preserve UR constitution-less we all end up as slaves or as body parts for our Gov''t to sell once our DNA is recorded and our Childrens DNA to.Don''t think they won''t do this-the Chinese gov''t has done it to their people for ages. The only way I know to stop our DNA from being recorded and stored is to stop it before it starts-It''s already started on prisoners and once they have completed this they will probably start on the general population with one excuse or another-And don''t think that once they know UR DNA and UR kids DNA as it''s already being gathered from these kids that they would hesitate to sell parts from anybody they want to. PLEASE CALL UR CONGRESSMEN OR EMAIL THEM AS I HAVE!!!

[cpaide]

i understand your ignorance and fear and bigotry, that

is for certain. may you can go to my country where

your high attitude is more suitable.


you love to talk of this tolerance but you have none

for anyone who does not think as you. you love to

talk of this freedoms but you have lost them because of your ignorance.

your are led around by the nose like animals by this

filthy pope and filthy president bush and you will

not admit it to yourself that you have no moral value

or standards, so you are pointing at this nice clean

mormans when you should be pointing at your own nasty

little childrens who are having $ex and getting

pregnant, taking this drugs, laughing at your face and

you can do nothing for fear of this social workers

charging you with "abuse."


and so you are jealous of this mormans and want them

to be miserable as you are.


i pity you.

[cpaide]

why you not arrest this filthy pope and put him in the rodeo arena in texas with the lustful old mormans men, and free this poor humble clean mormans womens and children?

[gurusavant]

it seems that the objective is to impregnate the girls before their first period. this way, with any following period thereafter, this bleeding can be turned into a punishment and sign of god, that they did not conform to any given rule (e.g. copulation), or that they can be regarded evil/vile/filthy/dirty because of it''s occurrence. therefore, they are indoctrinated early that they are in need of ''pure guidance'' (by a(ny) pure/clean male, of course).

[tbweb]

admit it to yourself, no one really care what this cazy lesbians social worker does to this clean humble mormans childrens. we are all very busy watching mtv and eating fast food dinners. but we can always pretend to care and point the finger at this mormans women, is it not?

Posted by cpaide at 12:30 AM : Apr 19, 2008,,,

Not exactly, there are groups who travel the world seeking out people who abuse children, especially sexually. Child Porn Laws are serious business and the Law and the Courts are showing no mercy if they catch offenders worldwide.

[cpaide]

admit it to yourself, no one really care what this cazy lesbians social worker does to this clean humble mormans childrens. we are all very busy watching mtv and eating fast food dinners. but we can always pretend to care and point the finger at this mormans women, is it not?

[tbweb]

13 year olds should not be having s.e.x. in any context, religious or not! 13 year old s.e.x. falls into the category of Child Porn Laws and Courts don''t play around when it comes to Child Porn, in addition based on the results of these upcoming DNA test, those adults involved in s.e.x. acts with minors, most notably 13 year olds will discover they are facing some serious jail time!

[zaksgrandmom]

wonder what the leaders and elders are saying now,is it "time to ride out of Texas" well yes it is for all the preverts and enablers of child abuse.

[jennifer_j_w]

Mitt Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The FLDS are a different religion. They are two different churches all together.

[zaksgrandmom]

This is the only way to id the fathers of these children. Yes and the mothers too for all of them,the mothers and fathers share in this sin against children.If a child age 13 has a child then yes thats all the proof you need. The men will scatter and when the state comes to test for dna they will not find any male dna on the ranch. Their leader has yet to show his face for he knew to leave as soon as the law was at his gate. Yes it is sad for all the children and women involved but even dogs will fight for their young and protect them from its owner if it feels the young might be harmed. All the women kept sayings was We want our children back.We need our children. Well now is that because without the children there will be no welfare checks and the men will have to support the older females. Just as they throw away the young men they throw away old women. So just wait and ranch will be on the market for sale and then the cult can move further south into the desert/just as the founding elders did. Just keep moving south,and take all dirty old men and women who would allow this crime against children. Oh and yes the crime against all tax payers.

[shanev137]

This doesn''t mean anything unless you prove it.

-------


Everyone involved is being DNA tested.

Don''t worry, the facts will be out soon enough and all your good Christian rapists will be behind bars shortly where they belong.

[veteran72]

If they were pregnant at thirteen, then they were being raped at 12. Yea, I sure wish we could get old Mitt to run with McBushcain. Then this would be happening from coast to coast.
Twisted, sick, deluded Fundies and Religious Retardds.
ALL Religion should be outlawed as the Mental Desease that it is.