Democratic Debate's Winner: McCain?

The Nation: Obama, Clinton Event Offered No Clear Victor, Except For Right-Wing Talking Points

(The Nation)  This column was written by John Nichols.

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And the winner of the 21st debate of the Democratic presidential race is...

Right-Wing Talking Points.

At a moment when even John McCain agrees that the American economy is in a recession, when the U.S. trade deficit is breaking records, when the vice president and the secretary of state stand accused of organizing torture parties in Washington, when the president has gotten us bogged down in two foreign quagmires, and when official gaming of globalization has stirred up food riots around the world, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton spent most of the last debate before the critical Pennsylvania primary trying to out-FOX one another.

Instead of engaging in a needed discussion about economic issues - especially the trade policies that are devastating the Keystone State and so much of the rest of the country - the Democratic contenders sounded as if they were reading outtakes from a particularly lame Bill O'Reilly program.

To be fair, this was not entirely the fault of the candidates. The line of questioning from ABC "News" personalities Charlie Gibson and George Stephanopoulos - Wednesday night's moderators, who pummeled Obama for most of the night - almost made a viewer long for a long-winded intervention by the CNN's self-absorbed but reasonably serious Wolf Blitzer. And the questions from viewers appeared to have been selected with the purpose of raising doubts about whether these people may be spending just a little too much time listening to Rush Limbaugh.

There were, of course, inquiries about the Rev, Jeremiah Wright Jr., including a demand that Obama explain whether he thinks an ex-Marine who raised legitimate questions about U.S. foreign policy should be considered "patriotic." Clinton made a bad moment worse by bringing up Hamas and Minister Louis Farrakhan in an obvious attempt to link Wright - and by extension Obama - to groups and individuals who do not get an especially free ride in U.S. media.

Clinton's trip to Bosnia was revisited, as was a comment she made 16 years ago about baking cookies.

Obama got asked why he does not wear a flag pin.

And both candidates were prodded by millionaire media personalities to talk about "elitism."

But the absolute low point of a debate that rarely left the low road came when former Clinton aide Stephanopoulos asked Obama about his meetings with Bill Ayers, a 1960s Weather Underground radical who went on to become a college professor.
Obama said he did not think he should be held to account for something someone he knows did "40 years ago when I was 8 years old."

Then, sounding more like Sean Hannity than a former anti-war activist from the '60s, Clinton said, "I also believe that Senator Obama served on a board with Mr. Ayers for a period of time, the Woods Foundation, which was a paid directorship position. And if I'm not mistaken, that relationship with Mr. Ayers on this board continued after 9/11 and after (Ayers') reported comments, which were deeply hurtful to people in New York, and I would hope to every American, because they were published on 9/11, and he said that he was just sorry they hadn't done more... I know Senator Obama is a good man, and I respect him greatly. But I think this is an issue that certainly the Republicans will be raising."

Remarkably, Obama went down the Hannity hole with Clinton, complaining that Clinton's husband, when he served as president, "pardoned or commuted the sentences of two members of the Weather Underground, which I think is a slightly more significant act than me serving on a board with somebody for actions that he did 40 years ago."

This was an ugly, unilluminating debate that neglected meaningful concerns because so much time was spent introducing what had been the silly side issues of the far right to the mainstream discourse. It was especially rough on Obama. But there was no winner, expect, perhaps, John McCain.

[parachutepol]

Look! Sen.Obama is a good man trying to fix some of the problem that divides us. Get it!

[element51]

gce65....If the media was even half as hard on McCain as they are on Obama his campaign would be over in a week. I too wonder why he isn''t getting any tough questions. Some guy on this board was whining about the "liberal media" but they don''t seem very liberal to me. McCain has more skeletons in his closet than a halloween costume shop but we never hear about them from the media. It''s time for some hard ball here.

[it_oldtimer]

McSame, you are such a despicable w*h*o*r*e for the right wing s*l*u*t*s -- you should feel so filthy for letting them use you this way!

[it_oldtimer]

Good bye, Hillary, good bye! It was nice knowing you! Too bad you were such an insufferable, self-aggrandizing ***!

[ajmarine1]

erasmus,


A special woman?


There''s the women I''d have s*x with,
and there''s the women I''d wanna have s*x with,
and there''s the women I have s*x with.

And then there''s you.


Tim McLaughlin



Until 1:00 AM.

[element51]

perceptions5....Your "perception" on this one is a little off the mark. Who do you think owns the main stream media. It''s the big corporations who control the republican party. What possible reason would they have to promote Obama? One of the biggest media moguls is Rupert Murdoch and I doubt that he is a big Obama supporter. It gets kinda old listening to you guys cry about how the "liberal media" is so unfair. And look up the work "liberal" in the dictionary before you sling it around like it was something dirty.

[rushlimpdrug]

Did anyone wake up Mclame to tell him he won the debate?

If/when they wake him up straighten him out about the sunni/shiite guys.
He may have forgotten.

[perceptions5]

One thing is for sure, Obama is a "product" of the most corrupt institution in America today, our mostly liberal MSM wolfpack press.

Just like Hilter was promoted by Joseph Gobbels, this Obama guy is being promoted in much the same manner, mass propaganda campaigns by his fellow admirers in our elite liberal press.

This isn''''t exactly the "separation" that our Founding Fathers wanted between our "press and state".

We need major reforms within our "free left-wing press".

No question about it........ask Saturday Night Live

ps. The Nation is a member of the Pro-Obama movement too...........like I had to tell everyone that.

Really sad indeed.........

[vmcneal2]

Yeah, just wait..because the Terrorists better run and hide, Maverick McCain will not take threats against the U.S.


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Posted by JoeCoolSwat at 04:57 PM : Apr 18, 2008


John McSame should take care of his wifes drug problem before he goes after the bad guys.

[element51]

JoeCool....Yeah, just what we need. Another shoot from the hip, bring em on cowboy. Scares me and I''m fearless. Look, diplomacy and negoation are the keys to keeping us all safe. The Chinese have a saying, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". Makes a great deal of sense if you think about it. We need someone who will concentrate on making our ports and borders more secure while at the same time doing everything possible to gain the support of the rest of the world. My dad always told me not to start fights but that if I ever ran from one he would kick my azz. Since he was quite able to back that threat I learned the value of diplomacy pretty early on. I also learned that negoation was much preferable to a knuckle sandwich. I had exactly two fights in my life and "won" both of them. In one I broke my finger and in the other one I got a new shirt that I paid for ripped to shreads. Did I really win?

[joecoolswat]

Yeah, just wait..because the Terrorists better run and hide, Maverick McCain will not take threats against the U.S.

[noloyalisti]

Can you imagine the war-mongering mcBush being president. He is a crazy angry Bush on steroids. You think the conservative lunatics have made it bad for us now? Just wait until the corporate media fascists select this lunatic.

[element51]

Glenncinca....Doesn''t it feel so much better to have a respectful exchange than to spit insults at each other? I''m glad you posted back. While it''s clear that our political philosophies differ I don''t take exception with a single thing you said about McCain. In fact there was a time when I said that I wouldn''t have a problem with him in the White House. For several reasons that I won''t elaborate on I no longer feel that way but I don''t take a thing away from him as a patriot. We both know that this upcoming election is probably the most important one we have ever seen and it is imperative that the winner have our support until that support is no longer deserved. No one will get it all right. Mistakes will be made but let''s hope they are small ones. You know what they say about opinions...and it is certainly true with you and I. But I respect you and as I said we are both passengers on the same ship. Let''s pull together and help keep her afloat.

[glenncinca-2009]

To Wakeup60
You are obviously a true wacko. The institution you must be posting from should unplug your internet cable.

[blackspirit3]

IF BEING A NASTY TRIFFLIN SLEAZY LIER MEANS YOU WON THE DEBATE - THEN BY ALL MEANS HILLARY - YOU''RE THE CHUMP - I MEAN CHAMP LMAO

[glenncinca-2009]

Elements51
You''re redeemed. No wild-eyed liberal. Just left of center politically. You were in the service. We share that in common. Look, the point is that McCain is NOT Bush, and is NOT guilty by association. Joining him at the hip with failed Bush policies is liberal crazy-talking points. Republicans view him as a maverick, and aren''t sure what to make of him. But like us, he is a true patriot. His service to our country has gone far beyond what you and I could possibly imagine. His character and strength have been tested to the limit. Politically, he is moderate. If joined to the hip with anyone, it''s Joe Lieberman! McCain''s policies will be much different from Bush''s. Regarding Bush, we''re tired of mindless liberal Bush-bashing mantras. On terrorism, remember he''s kept us safe every day since 9/11. It''s no accident. If there is blame for 9/11, look at what Hillary and Bill didn''t do during their co-presidency to prevent 9/11 and get Osama off the streets when it was easy. On Iraq, re-read the news stories leading up to the invasion. There was strong bi-partisan support, including Hillary%u2019s. Hussein snookered the world into thinking he had bad things hidden. Bush%u2019s post-invasion tactics were opposed by McCain. We''d already be out if McCain had had his way. Whether or not we should have gone into Iraq, we DO owe it to the good Iraqi people to stay and help them recover. Cut and run is irresponsible retreat from our moral obligation to them.

[blackspirit3]

IF BEING SLEEVY IS A WINNER - THEN HILL-DA-BEAST WON
IF BEING TRIFFLIN IS A WINNER - THEN HILL-DA-BEAST WON
IF BEING A LIER IS A WINNER - THEN HILL-DA-BEAST WON
IF BEING A SCAPEGOAT FOR A LIER IS A WINNER - THEN ABC WON

[element51]

wakeup60...Thank you for the kind words.

[wakeup60]

Element 51''s 1st and 2nd comments were "RIGHT ON"-the Right!And said very eloquently I might add...As to Glenncinca''s 2 cent''s worth-I''m assured JFK knew several unsavory people peppered into the long list of greats along his path...as well as ANYONE else that is climbing any kind of LADDER/whether it be in politics, business, religion,etc.,etc.,etc.,...does not automatically make one The Anti-Christ. And thank somebody/that Nixon "WASN"T" in office 8 years earlier/he was good in foreign policy/but he also was a wiz on the piano,in the dark,talking to himself speaking & planning lots of bad stuff with Hoover-The Drudgery Cross Dresser and doer of mayhem for alot. Oh,Mr.Richard did turn out to be a CROOD-didn''t he!
I am very assured Mrs.Obama loves her country very much,as her husband does/she will make a Fine First Lady...a refreshing new face that will accomplish alot...for many.

[johnny343sc]

Obama is a racist... plain and simple- go ahead, drink Barry Hussein''s kool-aid.

McCain 2008!!!
McCain 2008!!!
McCain 2008!!!


;)