Polygamy Custody Hearings Chaotic So Far

Lawyers For More Than 400 Children Taken In Raid Demand To Read Evidence

(CBS/AP)  A court hearing to decide the fates of hundreds of children seized from a polygamist retreat was off to a chaotic start Thursday as hundreds of lawyers in two different locations demanded to study the first piece of evidence before it could be introduced.

State District Judge Barbara Walther called a recess 40 minutes after the hearing began in what could be the nation's largest child custody case. She wanted to allow the 350 lawyers spread out in two buildings to read the evidence and decide whether to object en masse or make individual objections.

The hearing resumed about an hour later.

The lawyers are representing the 416 children and dozens of parents from the Yearning For Zion ranch owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon sect accused of forcing underage girls into polygamous marriages.

CBS News correspondent Hari Sreenivasan reports that authorities presented into evidence interviews conducted with teenage girls on the ranch, medical records, and a document called a "bishop's record" found in a safe. It details 38 families with names of men, their wives and their children.

At least 10 women were married by the age of 16, some to men as old as 56. One man had 22 wives.

The 80-year-old Tom Green County courtroom and a satellite courtroom set up in a City Hall auditorium two blocks away were jammed with dozens of mothers from the retreat, dressed in their iconic pastel prairie dresses and braided upswept hair.

In the satellite courtroom, about 175 people strained to see and hear a large projector set up on the auditorium's stage, which offered a grainy live feed of the proceedings with barely audible sound.

"I'm not in a position to advocate for anything," complained Susan Hays, the appointed attorney for a 2-year-old sect member.

The mothers in the primary courtroom were sworn in as witnesses, standing and mumbling their 'I do's' in timid voices. As they sat silently, the flock of lawyers buzzed with murmurs and popped up to make motions or object as Walther tried to maintain order.

But when prosecutors tried to enter into evidence the medical records of three girls - two 17-year-olds and an 18-year-old - the lawyers jumped to their feet and crammed the aisles trying to see the papers. That's when Walther called the recess.

Outside, where satellite trucks lined the street in front of the courthouse's columned facade, a man who said he was an FLDS father waved a photo of himself surrounded by his four children, ranging in age from an infant to about 9.

"Look, look, look," the father said. "These children are all smiling, we're happy."

Walther signed an emergency order nearly two weeks ago giving the state custody of the children after a 16-year-old girl called an abuse hot line claiming her husband, a 50-year-old member of the sect, beat and raped her.

The girl has yet to be identified, but Sreenivasan reports that court documents revealed today that teenage girls interviewed at the ranch say they knew, and had seen the girl who may have made the phone call that started this all.

Authorities raided the Eldorado ranch and spent a week collecting documents and disk drives that might provide evidence of underage girls being married to adults.

The children, first taken to local shelters, were later moved to a historic fort and then to a domed coliseum on the fairgrounds in San Angelo. All but 27 adolescent boys are staying in the coliseum and a nearby building; the teenage boys are at a boys ranch near Amarillo.

If the judge gives the state permanent custody of the children, the child services agency will begin looking for foster homes in a case that has already stretched the legal resources of San Angelo and the state's child welfare system.

The custody case is one of the largest in U.S. history and involves children from 6 months to 17 years in age. Roughly 100 of the children are under age 4.

Responding to criticism that the raid on the compound has destroyed the lives of the families, Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott told CBS' The Early Show the state's goal is to protect the children and remove them from any alleged "dangerous situation."

State officials contend the children were being physically and sexually abused or were in imminent danger of such abuse.

FLDS members say the state is persecuting them for their faith and that their 1,700-acre Yearning for Zion Ranch, with its soaring white temple and log cabin-style houses, is simply a home isolated from a hostile and sinful world.

They deny children were abused.

"It's the furthest thing away from what we do here," said Dan, a sect member who spoke at the compound Wednesday but declined to give his last name because he fears how it will affect his children in state custody. "There's nothing that's more disliked and more trained against."

Flora Jessop, a former wife in a polygamous sect who later escaped, defended the state's handling of the situation. "Texas did the right thing," Jessop told The Early Show. "They went in to help the child. Regardless of what happens, the system worked."

A major issue will be how a home is defined - whether by the individual house each child lived in or by the larger ranch, Susan Hays said. Under Texas law, if sexual abuse is occurring in a home and a parent does not stop it, then the parent can lose custodial rights.

The judge also must decide whether it's in the best interest of children who have lived insulated lives to be suddenly placed into mainstream society, Hays said.

Typically, each child would be given a separate hearing, but given the number of cases, it's likely the judge will have the state, the children's attorneys and the parents' attorneys make consolidated presentations, at least initially, said Harper Estes, president-elect of the state bar.

If the judge gives the state permanent custody, it will have an enormous challenge in finding homes for the children.

The agency has relied on volunteers to help feed the children, launder linens and provide crafts and games for them in a dorm-style setting for the past two weeks. But the agency will have to find stable homes and try to decipher sibling relationships that should be preserved if it gets permanent custody.

Even identifying groups of siblings has been challenging so far.

"There's quite a lot of difficulty in identifying how many of these children are biologically related to one another. There's a large number who are half-siblings," Gonzales said.

The children, who dress in pioneer-style clothes meant to emphasize modesty, have been raised in the insular FLDS community.

The sect came to West Texas in 2003, relocating some members from the church's traditional home along the Utah-Arizona state line. It traces its religious roots to the early theology of the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which now denounces polygamy and excommunicates members found practicing it.

[cpaide]

i understand your ignorance and fear and bigotry, that is for certain. may you can go to my country where your high attitude is more suitable.

you love to talk of this tolerance but you have none for anyone who does not think as you. you love to talk of this freedoms but you have lost them because of your ignorance.

your are led around by the nose like animals by this filthy pope and filthy president bush and you will not admit it to yourself that you have no moral value or standards, so you are pointing at this nice clean mormans when you should be pointing at your own nasty little childrens who are having $ex and getting pregnant, taking this drugs, laughing at your face and you can do nothing for fear of this social workers charging you with "abuse."

and so you are jealous of this mormans and want them to be miserable as you are.

i pity you.

[rwm2_2000]

They are talking about recording the DNA of all these kids and the DNA of all prisoners. The gov''t should NOT be allowed to DNA anyone. This is an invasion of their privacy. WE ALL NEED TO PROTEST THE RECORDING OF ANYONES DNA. Once they have all our DNA the gov''t can just lock us up and tell folks we are criminals and no longer have any rights. After that they can sell body parts worldwide as China does. PLEASE CALL OR EMAIL UR CONGRESSMEN NOW TO REGISTER UR OPINION AGAINST THIS! I already have.

[cpaide]

why you not arrest this filthy pope and put him in the rodeo arena in texas with the lustful old mormans men, and free this poor humble clean mormans womens and children?

[michellem99-2009]

I am an ex lds and even there is kind mormons I had to get out..Thank God Allmighty I did. The lds has a dark side yep the main ones..It was not their dress code..but their hatred or whitey views..I am white. I was so brainwashed that I could not think for myself..A christian who is legally blind got his bible out and told me that I better understsnd why they are wrong..I had no idea..I PITY THOSE WOMEN AS THEY KNOW NO BETTER..In America it is wrong to have multi spoues''..just as it is to lust after a minor..it is wrong and SICK. Thry are free to worship as they see as long it is legal to do so..Who will pay the highest price out of this mess..The helpless ones..the children and the women..
I say that as they were abused as well.Denied an education..The only thing they know is babies.It looks as thought they can''t read and write..Why..the old fartt want to control them and if they have little schooling..he has complete comtrol..

[toolmangler-2009]

I don''t care if they have 40,000 lawyers, they are wrong, with or without evidence. they themselves admit to child rape.

[momelyk-2009]

Freedom of religion not withstanding, how does this happen in The U.S. As a praticing Catholic I have no interest in the FLDS as a religion. My interests are solely based on the God-given liberties and freedoms garunteed in the constitution...There is no one among us that does not have somewhere in our family tree, a marriage with the age difference that is being reported in this story. It wasn''t that many generations ago that these kinds of marriages were commonplace... As for the polygamus charges, what would be the difference if a man and several women just lived together, and the man fathered children with all the women. As far as I know, that''s not illegal. Men father children with multiple women all the time. I don''t condone this, I''m just saying it happens without law enforcement busting down any doors and child protective services getting involved. The reaction of the state and media seem to be one solely based upon discrimination of a lifestyle and personal beliefs that they don''t agree with. All this hatred of something different is being couched in the refrain of "we must protect the children"...For example,Islam, the world''s largest religion, is not much different in how it treats women and children.Arranged marriages, women being treated as second-class citizens, large age differences between husbands and wifes, honor killings, ect.. Lately, we as a society, have been bending over backwards not insult muslims. We should extend the same courtesies to our fellow citizens.

[rwm2_2000]

This is to all the lawyers...U GO GIRL!!! I hope U give the law officers etc the devil. PLEASE BE SURE ALL OUR FREEDOM OF RELIGION ISSUES ARE PROTECTED...THANKS A LOT and be sure to charge the state all U can...Texas has plenty to pay up with since they have all our oil money.

[crate98]

My question is, who is footing the bill for all these attorneys to represent all these children? How much do you think attorneys charge? Or do you believe these bloodsuckers are going to do this pro bono?

[michellem99-2009]

Mum got a term for it...JAIL BATE...The age of an adult srart at 18..that should be nation wide.States should all have the same..That is not hate..

[justinCaseBorked]

dlhrn74, you said:
Peoples rights are protected within the means
of the law that the majority has put in place.
If you do not like the law, change it, or get out.
I am hateful and intolerant to those who don''''t
stand up for our country and what we believe.

WRONG!

What do you think the Civil Rights movement was about?

The Bill of Rights is a safe-guard to protect minorities from the Tyranny of the Majority.

Unfortunately, even with the protections imparted by the Bill of Rights, America has always been oppressive to certain minorities. The system has always been broken, and America keeps neglecting this.

You don''t believe that the system is broken? Look up ''prison'' on wikipedia:

Although the United States represents less
than 5% of the world''s population, over 25%
of the people incarcerated around the world
are housed in the American prison system.
...
so common is the prison experience that the
federal government predicts one in eleven men
will be incarcerated in his lifetime, one in
four if he is black.

You go right on and maintain status quo - it is predicted that by the year 2058 there will be more people in prison than out.

America is broken. The Tyranny of the Majority IS OPPRESSING massive numbers.

Mandating Tolerance for Non-Violent Acts of Consent is the ONLY way to a More Perfect Union.

[dlhrn74]

"Wow, dlhrn74, I was happy to have a little bit of civilized conversation, but you take it personal and see fit to be hateful in response. How is it that I defend peoples rights and get persecuted for it?"
Uncivilrights, at what point did I take any comment you made personal? AND What part of my response did you find hateful? I didn''t see either. You may voice your opinion just as I may voice mine, and in my opinion those who complain about this country should be advocating change in the legal system they complain about the same way we do everything else in this country. Get a majority to back your a*&, have em sign a petition take it to congress etc etc, otherwise you are a waste of space to sit and complain about this country, the same country that gives you the right to spout your opinion in a forum likes this, protected by our own ammendments. How am I the one being deemed hateful, intolerant over an issue NOT of peoples rights, but an issue of breaking the law. The majority of this country deems fit to have a law in place objecting to an adult (18+) having sexual encounters with a minor (under age 18.) Peoples rights are protected within the means of the law that the majority has put in place. If you do not like the law, change it, or get out. I am hateful and intolerant to those who don''t stand up for our country and what we believe.

[justinCaseBorked]

uncivilright,

Your tolerance is the hope of Freedom for all.

dlhrn74,

Your intolerance is the denial of Freedom for many. Intolerance such as you have opined draws America closer to the Middle East in nature. Have you ever pondered the situation in the Middle East? Why is the Middle East in such a miserable and oppressive situation?

I can tell you why... Intolerance.

Without Freedom, which mandates Tolerance, a Democracy is a Tyranny of the Majority.

[skeezix06]

Any "parent" willing to allow a 12 year old child to marry should be either be in jail or a mental institution. Take your pick.

[tazmjam]

The decision by a three-judge panel reversed a Weld County case in which a judge ruled that a 15- year-old girl was too young to consent to a common-law marriage." Rocky Mtn News June 16 2006

Conventional marriage is 16 with court or parent approval, common law is still 12
Posted by uncivilright


Gov. Bill Owens signed a measure banning child brides, ending an uproar sparked by a court ruling that said 12-year-old girls could enter common-law marriages in Colorado.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/07/19/colorado_to_ban_child_marriages/

[uncivilright]

"I believe Colorado closed that Common-law marriage loop-hole a few years ago. Marriage age is 18 years without parents consent, 16 years with both parents consent." Posted by tazmjam

"The decision by a three-judge panel reversed a Weld County case in which a judge ruled that a 15- year-old girl was too young to consent to a common-law marriage." Rocky Mtn News June 16 2006

Conventional marriage is 16 with court or parent approval, common law is still 12

[tazmjam]

the law in here Colorado allows people as young as 12 to marry! Posted by uncivilright


I believe Colorada closed that Common-law marriage loop-hole a few years ago. Marriage age is 18 years without parents consent, 16 years with both parents consent.

[uncivilright]

Wow, dlhrn74, I was happy to have a little bit of civilized conversation, but you take it personal and see fit to be hateful in response. How is it that I defend peoples rights and get persecuted for it?

[uncivilright]

You know, I believe a lot of things. Yep, people broke the law, having multiple "wives" or marrying young (by the way, the law in here Colorado allows people as young as 12 to marry! What''s the law in your state?) How many states still have adultery and sodomy on their books as crimes? I, being an anthropologist, believe that just because a 16 year old has relations with a 50 year old, it doesn''t mean she''s scarred for life or abused because she is happy to follow what her religion mandates. We all make decisions based on how we are raised and just because you and I wouldn''t raise our daughters like that doesn''t make it as bad as everyone is making it. In fact, that sort of behavior has gone on in this country since its inception and until very recently, has become something we see as criminal. My beef is the way 400+ children could be ripped from their homes, the center of their universe, and taken into a world they know very little about, with little to no probable cause. (Doesn''t anyone think its fishy that Baptist vans took the kids, what is this c#@p???) WE HAVE RIGHTS PEOPLE! What about all the priests who never had charges filed against them for abusing alter boys? What about the male circumcision we practice with our boy babies? What about a lot of things.

[dlhrn74]

AND ANOTHER THING: uncivilright: you stated "We have such high and mighty puritanical opinions" Hey, wait, wan''t this country settled by puritans? Oh Yeah, it was!
In regard to your comment "I''''m so sick of the abuses of power in this country, I could just spit." PLEASE I AM BEGGING YOU do not contaminate this great country''s soil with your saliva. BY all means, if you are tired of the so-called abuse of power, pick another country to move to. How about a country that doesn''t abuse it''s power in some way shape or form.
P.S. IF you find one better, pleas let me know. I sincerely doubt you will cause you are sitting in one of the best and you bring discrace to this country with wanting to spit on the very ground that allows you to speak the ignornance you spout.

[dlhrn74]

Uncivilright, are you absolutely serious? I mean really, do you mean to tell me that you believe spritiually united people of this sect did NOT partake in consumation of the so-called marriage. Maybe the bed in the temple was just a prop to symbolize the act of sexual encounter. It must be the boys who are under age impregnating these girls under age. Honestly if that were the case, I could care less. The problem is, knowing the fundamentals or dare I say RADICAL mormons perspective on faith, they obviously do not believe in pre-marital ***, as most religions don''t. This means that girls under the age of 18 having babies would need to be married. They also believe in taking many wives and procreating as much as possible. As the dumba#@ Cpaide (probably terrorist...lol) so declared my "supid"ity with my last comment, it must be true. I am blind and do not realize that all the CHILDREN that walked out of that compound under the age of 18 and pregnant, must have been impregnated by a boy also under the age of 18. OH, wait, that isn''t the case is it? Hence, we have proven that sexual conduct on minors have been commited, and in this great country of ours (not perfect, but very great country) that act is one that is illegal.