The Military's Showdown Over PTSD
Battle Between The Old School And New School Methods For Handling Troops' Mental Health
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Soldiers Denied PTSD Treatment
Experts warn that a new generation of soldiers is positioned to suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. But as Kimberly Dozier reports, the military is doing little to ease their pain.
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Twenty-two year old combat medic Jonathan Norrell is still haunted by his memories of war. Now, his battle over PTSD illustrates the military's internal disagreements over the disorder. (CBS)
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(CBS/AP)
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He was bombed, ambushed, treating wounded under fire - and the memories still haunt him, CBS News correspondent Kimberly Dozier reports.
"The things that affected me the most weren't the IEDs, which I went through six or seven of, and all the firefights, and all the combat," Norrell said. "It was the psychological stuff, the people I failed to help."
By the time he came off his tour of duty he was diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: anxiety, sleeplessness, flashbacks. Military doctors recommended immediate discharge and treatment but the command refused.
Instead they forced him into combat training exercises. He turned to drugs and alcohol.
"I just lost it," Norrell said. "I didn't wanna do it anymore."
So the Army he served so well in Iraq threatened to expel him without medical benefits.
Norrell's case reveals the showdown inside the military, between the new school and old school view on how to handle PTSD - one of the signature injuries of the Afghan and Iraq wars.
And experts warn there's a storm coming: a generation of soldiers coming home with PTSD.
A new study estimates that roughly one in five U.S. troops is suffering from major depression or post-traumatic stress from serving in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and an equal number have suffered brain injuries.
CBS News has been given documents showing more than 100,000 vets of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are seeking help for mental health disorders.
Norrell decided to fight back by reaching out to veteran's groups and advocates like Carissa Picard of Military Spouses for Change. Picard's husband leaves for Iraq in June.
"Our soldiers didn't choose to wage this war; they didn't choose to go to Iraq or Afghanistan," she said. "We've sent them there. We need to take responsibility for what happens to them."
Norrell's struggle for help took months of meetings, phone calls, e-mails, lobbying Congressmen and the top levels of the Pentagon before she finally got help at Fort Hood.
We asked the man in charge there why it took so long.
"The field commander recognizes the soldier has a problem, and they request the soldier to be transferred to the warrior transition unit," said Col. Casper P. Jones III.
Dozier said: "That sounds great, but we know in this situation, for several months, it didn't happen."
"It didn't happen," Jones said. "I think there are lessons from this case that can help us all as we move forward."
CBS News has learned that top Pentagon officials have made visits to bases across the country. They're telling Army commanders to take their doctors' diagnoses more seriously, and get the troops treatment.FYI: Warning Signs, Symptoms and How To Find Help for PTSD
Norrell hopes that by speaking out, other troops won't have to fight so hard to get the help they need.
"Hopefully what happened to me won't happen to any more soldiers," he said.
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FYI: Warning Signs, Symptoms and How To Find Help for PTSD



"Our soldiers didn''t choose to wage this war; they didn''t choose to go to Iraq or Afghanistan," she said. "We''ve sent them there. We need to take responsibility for what happens to them.""
This is ridiculous. I watched this woman speak earlier, and I was absolutely disgusted. These men and women may not have wanted to go to war - who does? - and they may not get to choose whether they go or not, but they DECIDED by themselves to enlist into the armed forces. There was no draft sending people over against their will. They signed up to live this lifestyle, saying that they will obey the Commander in Chief, protect their country and the country''s freedom. It is possible that when a man or woman signed up, they didnt know there was going to be a war, but again, you agree to do the previous above. My father went to Afghanistan and Iraq back in 2003 and a close family friend has been over 3 times who had been in some of the worst parts of the war. They both did what they had to do and did what they enlisted for, even though they didnt want to leave us behind.
So, to Carissa Picard - get your mind straight and your words before you speak. Your husband CHOSE to do this, dont you dare say he was forced to.
Sadly even if you are diagnosed with PTSD there really is no help. At least where we stand. My husband returned from Iraq in November 2003. Not long after I noticed a change. Eventually I ended up contacting the nearest VA to where we live and took him to the emergency room. He then saw not only a psycologist but an actual psychiatrist and was diagnosed with PTSD. The only problem was that the doctor who is the PTSD specialist at this particular VA Medical Center in my opinion is a quack.
He hasn''t had an appointment with his doctor in over 2 years and has since quit taking his medication that was prescribed to him because it was making him suicidal and depressed and when he expressed these concerns with the doctor he was told by the doctor that there wasn''t any pill that would make his problem go away. A little over 3 years ago he filed for diaability through the VA and has yet to recieve any benefits. He has called several times and each time is told that it is processing. Due to the PTSD he has had a hard time finding a job and keeping it because of his constant paranoia and agoraphobia. So he stays home and takes care of the house and I work to support our family. Honestly you would think that for our soldiers who risked thier own lives for our freedom would recieve better care and would have a lot less of a hard time in recieving their benefits. While I do understand that there are many many cases that the disabilty office has to go through and approve I do not understand why some soldiers who were in his unit and in Iraq at the same time as he was are already recieving their benefits while we just sit back and wait. I do know however that the VA will pay back for those years past upto the date he first filed but at the same time, we are struggling to make ends meet.
How is this just? I know that my husband is not alone and I do wish that more people would speak up in hopes that maybe that it will speed up the process. But in the mean time what are families like ours supposed to do? We are having to live on food stamps and government assisted housing and we feel as if we have come to a dead end. We hope that one day soon we won''t have to depend on these federal agencies but at this point what else are we supposed to do. There is no way with what I am making at my job that we can survive any other way. It has really made me take a different look at the way our government works. It seems to me that it is ok for our men and women to risk thir lives in the name of freedom just so that the government can turn their backs on them in their time of need.
Posted by OBXdiver
See this is the problem, you know someone who went, you never went yourself, so you have zero clue as to what is happening. I suggest you go enlist yourself, go fight over there, then come back and tell us what it''s like. Trust me your daddy cannot explain it to you, you will never know until you''ve been there.
The problem now is the same as it was for those in Vietnam, the leaders have no clue. We need to put their *** in the thick of it day after day, deployment after deployment before they will, most of them have done not much more than push papers.
The problem now is the same as it was for those in Vietnam, the leaders have no clue. We need to put their *** in the thick of it day after day, deployment after deployment before they will, most of them have done not much more than push papers."
Dont you dare underestimate what I know, what my father has SHOWN and told me. Believe me, I might not have been there, but I have a pretty *** good idea of what it would be like. Mind you, I may be 16, but that doesnt mean Im some mindless, uneducated, careless kid. My father and my mother who have been with the military for over a combined total of 40 years have educated me about this war and everything that goes on it it. I know that I will never know what it will be like to be over there right now, but Im not some *** who thinks they know what theyre talking about.
did I not say I will never know what it would ACTUALLY be like?
Also, I think PTSD is a real issue, I never said it wasn''t. I just felt disgusted at the statement Cassie Picard had made saying that men and women are being forced to be sent over there.
By the way, I do have a driver''s license!
They just started a blogging site for raising awareness and encouraging military spouses to speak out as well (AWESOME!): www.milspousepress.com.
She is making all of us SO PROUD.
WAY TO GO, Carissa!!
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
Don''t discount the opinions of todays teenagers, they are more informed than ever before about todays world, especially those of military families. Pourchhound, OBXdivers most traumatic day of her life was probably when her father deployed to WAR, not knowing if she would ever see him again. Did you even consider that? Don''t you think that''s a little traumatic to an elevin year old.
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Typing the oath of service isn''t proving much of a point, except that you''re okay with blind, thoughtless personnel. Now, just as in Vietnam, the DOD and Va is denying these men their fair deal by, again, claming that these men are feigning sickness.
THese soldiers are at the whim of evil and stupid men who are weak liars and false patroits. The worst kind of patroits that use empty phrases such as "support the troops" and in the same f*ckin'' breathe deny equipment, a sound strategy and the dignity of having their imparements recognize. everytime Cheney and Bush pin a soldier, lay a wreath or chant a hym, the nation should collectively heave and weep.
Oil+Money Israel More greed lies=Iraq (No 9/11)
Xcop....Don''t use 9/11 to justify the war in Iraq. You sound like Rudy and Cheney
clgl_fubar:
''If you do NOT understand that when you raise your hand to take the oath, then you should keep the hand down, and the mouth shut.''
THANK YOU.
and to apprxam:
if no one had stepped in and at least tried to shut down all the terrorists in the Middle East...where do you think we would be today? Peace and quiet? I dont think so. Destruction and chaos seem to be what could have been forshadowed if no action was taken.
"Our soldiers didn''t choose to wage this war; they didn''t choose to go to Iraq or Afghanistan" "We''ve sent them there. We need to take responsibility for what happens to them".
Carissa Picard is right. The government sent them to war on a lie and they stayed because the government told them to. Now they need our govenments help. How un-patriotic can Bush & Friends be? After all the screaming they did how those that did not support the war are, they now want to forget the men & women who served their lie?
That%u2019s Democrat code word for I hate Bush.
(2)"24 Year old Medic."
Medics don''t do front combat, they are too valuable.
(3)"Military doctors recommended immediate discharge and treatment but the command refused."
No Command anywhere can over-ride the findings of a military medical review, not even in War-Time.
(4)"Kimberly Dozier reports, the military is doing little to ease their pain." The military is spending Billions on new care facilities and doctors especially psychological professionals.
(5)"So the Army he served so well in Iraq threatened to expel him without medical benefits." That''s a hate George Bush Statement. He was told he could be discharged because of Drug Abuse. Drug use will normally get you kicked out immediately with no recourse. He is one in a million could do drugs and stay active.
(6)Lies, Lies and more Democrat Anti-American Lies. CBS (Communist Broadcast System) did not bother to mention that this Three Year Old "story" is based on information in a legal deposition. The Democrat Trial Lawyers Association is suing the military on this members behalf as they have done in many Anti-War Anti-America cases. I believe that soldiers should get all the care they need. But the truth is, Democrats could not give a DANMNN about the lives of Soldiers. This is just another case of Democrats using people in an attempt to gain advantage for their evil political Agenda.
CBS once again, is reporting only those facts that spin their story to make it sound as sensational as they possibly can.
1- The VA determines and treats PTSD every day.
2- The Army has no influence over the VA, especially since a soldier must be discharged to qualify for VA healthcare.
3- All medical needs of the discharged veteran are the responsibility of the Veteran''s Administration, a civilian run and managed care system.
4- If a conflict exists, it could be an active duty soldier refusing a duty assignment and is thereby dishonorably discharged. This could jeopardize VA benefits. But in a case like that there are appeals processes. And the VA tends to very lenient with regards mental health issues.
The soldier in this story MUST assume some responsibility for his own mental health issues since he is an admitted abuser of DRUGS & ALCOHOL.
The Bleeding Heart Liberals trust that it is the government''s responsibility to fix everyone of their personal demons.
In other words the entire PREMISE for this STORY IS PURE BUNK!
I just want to say that I am amazed at how many military experts and strategists there are here on this board - especially those that have never served.
I think that the military soldier deserves all of the respect and reverence in the world. He/she sacrifices a lot for freedom. The government should take care of them - but it should be said that the government does have to protect itself from the people that abuse the system, also. This is where the bureaucracy comes in. It is just as bad in peace time as in war. I have had to deal with it.
This being said - I think that when it is so blatantly obvious that someone is disabled, there is no excuse for the hold up. The problem with something like PTSD is that it is one diagnosis that seems to be a catch all for "I don''t know what is wrong." My ex-wife was diagnosed with it - due to a divorce she wanted. She played the system.
I wish all the soldiers the best of luck with their claims. I hope they get what is coming to them. Baileysmom -- the payment will be made from the date that the claim was filed - they do pay back pay to that date. Good luck to you and your family.
The PTSD I suffer, if any, is from all the do-gooder, propagandists on the left who don''t give a real care for a single man or women in uniform, its all rhetoric. Go pay a visit to a VA Hospital.
Those WHO THEMSELVES have NEVER SERVED but who continually spew HYPOCRISY as if these soldiers were THEIR FIRST priority when in TRUTH given the opportiunity to serve they did and would flee.
I feel for these soldiers. I was one. Let us take care of our own.
The rest of you PHONIES should go back and hunker down in your doomsday shelters.
You are a complete IDIOT, IDIOT, IDIOT! Wake up and smell the coffee the REPUBLICANS started this war and George W Bush single handedly has Started this Recession and has spent more than 1/2 a trillion dollars on this war and has driven the us currency to its lowest value in history. IT''S A REPUBLICAN AGENDA and there was no strategy in getting out of IRAQ. What was George W Bush thinking that he would bet a parade in Bagdad with roses on the street for over throwing Saddam Hussein and everybody would get along MAGICALLY AFTER THE WAR. You and George W Bush need to go back to the GROUP HOME where you both came from and grow a brain. Democratic evil political Agenda your an IDIOT!
1) EDUCATE YOURSELF.
2) NO ONE SAID IT WAS AN MEB. In the military, PURSUANT TO DOD (that would be Department of Defense) regulation, it is SOLELY WITHIN THE DISCRETION OF THE SERVICE MEMBER''S COMMANDER to decide HOW TO SEPARATE the service member--EVEN WHEN THERE IS A RECOMMENDATION from medical doctors, including psychiatrist, for medical or mental health care. Granted, it can be appealed later, but at the time, it is TOTALLY within the commander''s discretion.
Under the DoD regs, the Commander essentially "owns" the soldier.
Like Carissa, I am an attorney, a milspouse, and a veterans advocate.
Unlike you, obviously, I DEAL WITH THESE REGULATIONS on a regular basis.
3) Lastly, combat medics travel with EVERY infantry unit in Iraq. He was a COMBAT medic. COmbat medics are some of the most traumatized soldiers/marines that return from OIF/OEF because of what they see.
JUST BECAUSE YOU DON"T LIKE IT DOESN"T MAKE IT A LIE.
Why doesn''t it surprise me that A TWISTED MIND can TWIST WORDS & THEIR INTENT?
What a disgrace!! 40,000 Americans dead or wounded and countless more with PTSD left to rot in mold infested VA hospitals or worse denied treatment at all.
Shame on us for not ending this insane occupation already. How many more must fall for nothing?
Posted by exaag at 10:03 AM : Apr 18, 2008
I bet you''re a great prosecutor. Here''s hoping you have an equally skilled defense attorney at St. Peter''s Gate.
1. Soldiers injured on active duty are eligible for military medical benefits, separate from the VA, which the military controls.
2. An Army task force recently told VA workers near Fort Drum that they aren%u2019t allowed to help soldiers figure out how to fill out their paperwork. Here''s the memo: http://media.npr.org/documents/2008/feb/ftdrum.pdf
3. The VA treats veterans with PTSD every day, but there is currently a backlog of 600,000 claims leaving all of those veterans in limbo. I should know, I work in the VA.
4. I served in the Army for ten years and now see many of my friends suffering from PTSD. Our soldiers put their lives on the line thinking the government means it when it says they will be taken care of. When soldiers see the reality it can be very hard to handle and if I were in that situation I%u2019d probably start drinking too.
5. You must not have served if you don''t know that medics see combat.
6. Commanders do have the authority to override medical decisions and even medical boards. You can check out www.military.com for stories on that one.
7. It%u2019s been my experience that the sooner a soldier experiencing problems getting medical help goes public, the quicker the military is to start doing right by them. Don%u2019t be afraid to stand up for yourselves. If you need help, check out http://veteransforamerica.org/.
peace,
Adrienne
I hope that Kim is given the opportunity to follow Jon in the months and years to come. I plan to. I want to thank CBS for its commitment in terms of time and money required to produce this story.
I hope this is just Chapter 1.
Thank you, Carissa & Liz. Because you care, you rock!
Posted by gammap at 10:01 AM : Apr 18, 2008
+ report abuse
I appreciated your comment,, and to me it is a shame you have to say these things to an American public who seem to want the best for our veterans. This should be automatic, when these combat veterans lay there life and limb down for all Americans nothing should short change these brave troops, They are being short changed and it is appalling to me.It is your commander in chief your representatives that make the laws, and injuries are there last resort to give, and It Makes Me Sick Every American should write to these fat cats in Wash d.c. and remind them how they got there who is paying there salaries and they can be and will be replaced. We are tired of writing over and over again to protect these combat veterans with every means at our disposal. They Don"t get it