The Military's Showdown Over PTSD

Battle Between The Old School And New School Methods For Handling Troops' Mental Health

(CBS)  Twenty-two year old combat medic Jonathan Norrell volunteered for every mission during his year in Iraq.

He was bombed, ambushed, treating wounded under fire - and the memories still haunt him, CBS News correspondent Kimberly Dozier reports.

"The things that affected me the most weren't the IEDs, which I went through six or seven of, and all the firefights, and all the combat," Norrell said. "It was the psychological stuff, the people I failed to help."

By the time he came off his tour of duty he was diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder: anxiety, sleeplessness, flashbacks. Military doctors recommended immediate discharge and treatment but the command refused.

Instead they forced him into combat training exercises. He turned to drugs and alcohol.

"I just lost it," Norrell said. "I didn't wanna do it anymore."

So the Army he served so well in Iraq threatened to expel him without medical benefits.

Norrell's case reveals the showdown inside the military, between the new school and old school view on how to handle PTSD - one of the signature injuries of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

And experts warn there's a storm coming: a generation of soldiers coming home with PTSD.

A new study estimates that roughly one in five U.S. troops is suffering from major depression or post-traumatic stress from serving in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and an equal number have suffered brain injuries.

CBS News has been given documents showing more than 100,000 vets of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are seeking help for mental health disorders.

Norrell decided to fight back by reaching out to veteran's groups and advocates like Carissa Picard of Military Spouses for Change. Picard's husband leaves for Iraq in June.

"Our soldiers didn't choose to wage this war; they didn't choose to go to Iraq or Afghanistan," she said. "We've sent them there. We need to take responsibility for what happens to them."

Norrell's struggle for help took months of meetings, phone calls, e-mails, lobbying Congressmen and the top levels of the Pentagon before she finally got help at Fort Hood.

We asked the man in charge there why it took so long.

"The field commander recognizes the soldier has a problem, and they request the soldier to be transferred to the warrior transition unit," said Col. Casper P. Jones III.

Dozier said: "That sounds great, but we know in this situation, for several months, it didn't happen."

"It didn't happen," Jones said. "I think there are lessons from this case that can help us all as we move forward."

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FYI: Warning Signs, Symptoms and How To Find Help for PTSD

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CBS News has learned that top Pentagon officials have made visits to bases across the country. They're telling Army commanders to take their doctors' diagnoses more seriously, and get the troops treatment.

Norrell hopes that by speaking out, other troops won't have to fight so hard to get the help they need.

"Hopefully what happened to me won't happen to any more soldiers," he said.

[tanna4676]

My thanks also go to IIbear1009 for your help in getting this story in print. Our service men and women should not have to fight for their god given rights. We as a nation owe them the help they deserve. God bless all who have served and those who will serve in the future.

[tanna4676]

My thanks to AdrienneJ76 for the info you have posted. I will be checking out all the websites you have referred to. I was appalled at the info that the VA people are told not to help with paper work. He has two valices full of paperwork and doesn''t have a clue what to do with it. My son is doing all the leg work for his own guard unit. They want to help but they don''t have all the info either. Would it be possible to talk to you outside of this forum?

[carssapicard]

Moreover, with PTSD, Americans pay for it one way or another, sooner or later. We can either pay for it in a larger DoD budget now (for mental health care and immediate crisis intervention and treatment) or we can pay for it later at the state level and federal level as our at-risk veterans deteriorate and fail to successfully reintegrate into peacetime society (thus placing increasing demands on our emergency services, social services, police services, etc.).

The fact remains we cannot ask our young men and women to perform and witness inhumane activities and conditions and still expect them to return unchanged.

From substandard living quarters for recovering wounded warriors at Walter Reed (and other DoD facilities) to soldier suicides to delays in receiving disability benefits, many believe that OEF/OIF has revealed a systemic inability by our military and veteran institutions to adequately support our servicemembers who have been physically and/or emotionally traumatized by combat. MSC believes it is time to change that.

[carssapicard]

I would like to emphasize that we (Military Spouses for Change) realize that our service members volunteered to join the military. However, the fact that they volunteered does not absolve our country from its role in, and responsibility for, the mental and physical traumas that are inflicted upon them as a result of their service. In fact, as we face a crisis in maintaining this all volunteer force, it is critical that we now, more than ever, exhibit not only the ability, but the WILLINGNESS, to effectively identify and MEANINGFULLY treat those traumas.

[xcopper61]

I want to argue this topic more but this 1500 character limit makes it impossible..Does anyone have any idea where we can move this to so that we don''t have to break down these posts into paragraphs. There are a lot of valid points and we can all learn. This is a good debate lets keep it rolling, I don''t play on forums so if anyone has any ideas lets move this and keep it rolling what''s the risk? we may all learn something here

[xcopper61]

I refuse to let anything run my life unless it was something that I did wrong. Like JEGibbons reiterated what I said before if we supported our troops they would be a heck of a lot better off. The VA is trying they are overwhelmed and understaffed as well. They are part of the military, The same military that Clinton cut down to nothing. So they arejust as frustrated as the people they are trying to treat. They are doctors, psychiatrists, nurses and the like. Their calling in life is to help people and to not have the means, supplies, support, and money to help all these men and women that need it makes them feel like failures....

[xcopper61]

Do you think people weren''t bipolar 40 yrs ago and do you think there wasn''t PTSD 40 yrs ago..Now the drug companies come in with their cure all pills. I am in the medical field now..Half these pills cause the symptoms we are trying to fix. Yes PTSD is very real. I have seen more things in my career then I care to discuss. Do they bother me hell yea..Do they run my life no, I sat with a fellow officer after he shot himself in the head after he found out his wife was cheating on him..That image never leaves me. I watched and heard him die I saw his brains splattered all over the wall. But my parents brought me up to cope with what life throws at you.

[xcopper61]

I am ashamed to say I tried the meds on my son,,But he took himself off of them and refused to take them. He was a handful and a half. I am a single parent. But he was told what would happen if he got out of line and I set an example for him. He has turned out to be a great kid and is on his way to joining the police dept..Our society as a hole is too eager to treat with a pill instead of the old fashioned way

[xcopper61]

Let us get off Iraq and war in general..Someone said there was PTSD way back only they called it something else...Well as an adult I now know that I am extremely ADD, my son is ADD, my dad is ADD, both my brothers are ADD. We are the only successful ones in the entire family when we were kids we were held accountable for our actions not thrown a pill. It''s called a swat on the butt. And it''s not child abuse it is behavior modification there is a vast difference. I have seen child abuse and if I could have gotten my hands on the people responsible I would be an ex-cop in jail...

[xcopper61]

Yo porchhound what''s your claim to fame in life?.. Your picking on an obviously intelligent 16 year old..Who has watched her dad deploy...How can that NOT BE traumatic for a kid...

[xcopper61]

9/11=Afghanistan; Saudi Arabia; Osama; Al Qaeda

Oil+Money Israel More greed lies=Iraq (No 9/11)

Xcop....Don''''t use 9/11 to justify the war in Iraq. You sound like Rudy and Cheney


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Posted by apprxam

Unfortunately this allows so little space for arguments/debates..Is there a forum we csn that this to where we don''t have to cut to 1500 characters it makes it very hard to follow...I don''t use 9/11 to justify the Iraqi War..Remember Congress..They saw the same intelligence that President Bush did..They approved the war so don''t blame him for this..

[xcopper61]

Redo sorry my dog threw her tennis ball on the keyboard and hit the insert key...

Thank you for your service...I was a kid when Vietnam was in full play...You hit it right on the head...Shame on these people that treated you soldiers the way they did when when you made it home. They make me SICK...Your a hero..I lost people that lived in the neughborhood I grew up in..You deserved to step foot on this countries soil as the heros that you are...Not being denegrated for following orders and protecting this country

[xcopper61]

JEGibbons
I am a Viet Nam Combat Veteran.
The PTSD I suffer, if any, is from all the do-gooder, propagandists on the left who don''''t give a real care for a single man or women in uniform, its all rhetoric. Go pay a visit to a VA Hospital.

Those WHO THEMSELVES have NEVER SERVED but who continually spew HYPOCRISY as if these soldiers were THEIR FIRST priority when in TRUTH given the opportiunity to serve they did and would flee.

I feel for these soldiers. I was one. Let us take care of our own.

The rest of you PHONIES should go back and hunker down in your doomsday shelters.


Thank you for your service...I was a kid when Vietnam was in full play...You hit it right on the head...Shame on these people that treated you soldiers the way they did when when t SICK...Your a hero..I lost people that lived in thehey returned from Vietnam..You deserved to step foot on this countries soil as the heros that you are...

[xcopper61]

And floyd if you think for one minute Iraq was innocent in any of the Muslum attacks against this country you are a fool....

[xcopper61]

FLOYDZEPP.......I am an ex-cop because I was hurt in the line of duty...I have plates and acrews in my neck and pain every day of my life...TELL ME...What have you done with your life...I worked low income houseing, I''ve been shot at, I have stopped short of killing 3 people, I have been in fights almost every night, I was in the middle of a full blown riot...If I could stand the pain I would be out on the streets rigtht now..My neurosurgeon REFUSED to send me back to the streets..And btw I am a female I an 5''3 and weigh about 110 lbs and I have never hesitated to jump in a fight, help a stranger or a cop...So tell me your life story..

[usbrit-2009]

What would happen if somebody threw a war and nobody came. Who said that? I know it''ll never happen, but it''s a nice thought.

I''ve never been to war, had an uncle who was a WWII vet from Dunquerque and my grand father fought and almost died on the Somme. Neither of them ever talked about their war experiences. Both my parents grew up in England during WWII and remember the Blitz. PTSD has been around for ever in various guises. In WWI it was shell shock (they shot people at dawn for that one - on both sides); WWII - battle fatigue; only since Viet-Nam has it been recognised as PTSD. I''ve heard legions of stories about the VA''s inadquacy, mostly from Viet-Nam Vets (and I see a remarkable number on these boards; my thanks for your service abd your sacrifices) but now more and more from Gulf War Vets. I cannot believe that this government will not stand by their men to try and improve things. The whole veteran community should be behind the work of Ms. Piccard and her organization. For the likes of demslie and the other two or three equally deranged individuals of the ilk may I suggest that you follow Woody Allen''s famous words "I was declared 5H - in time of war, I''m a hostage." That way you''d be out of sight, out of mind and allowing some useful work to be done by people currently in that position.

[mjvw2]

This is what we all have to look forward to when we have government health care.

[makemyday2da]

Unfortunately, my oldest son is one of the stastics here. We have been fighting the USMC for over two years to get him the help he needs. My son did not ask to go to Iraq for he enlisted in 1999. He served honorably for his 4 years and come home when his enlistment was up. But six months later, he was called back and sent to Iraq. This has destroyed his life and I think it''s criminal they way he and so many others have been mistreated by our own government! He attends weekly support groups with other ''victims''. He was in the hospital just two weeks ago for his mental problems (PTSD). After he was returned from Iraq, in addition to the PTSD (which at first they accused him of faking!) he was diagnosed with Bi-Polar I (more serious form of bi-polar) which NEVER surfaced prior to Iraq. Therefore, it''s a "preexisting personality disorder" and denies the vets their benefits. But they picked the wrong guy to ''pick on'' because we''ll fight it all the way to the White House if need be. We, as his family, believe in him and his integrity. My parents have spent tens of thousands of dollars in legal and medical fees and we will not fold under any circumstances. However, my son often feels hopeless for his own case - but will do what it takes to help others in the same dilemma. This administration is SHAMEFUL!

[taddles-2009]

"My heart goes out to the men and women of the Iraq wars.

Posted by newsreader2 at 11:08 AM : Apr 18, 2008"



Nicely put.

Our Government an our Military has got to stop treating our soldiers as expendable commodities. They serve without question, they deserve respect and help when they get home not derision and indifference. The Government can spend 2 Billion a day fighting in Iraq, it can afford to spend a few bucks at home helping those who served.

[taddles-2009]

"As a "Nam vet, I recall our soldiers being portrayed as a bunch of drug-addicted psychopaths, while traitors like JohnKerry told the Congress we were a bunch of baby killers.

Posted by exaag at 10:03 AM : Apr 18, 2008"


IF you were a Nam vet and IF you are a prosecutor you''re a f**king disgrace to the uniform and to the legal profession. I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of Vets of every war to say a vehement F**K YOU!