Slow Progress On Guns And The Mentally Ill

One Year After Virginia Tech, Still Only A Fraction Of Those Declared Mentally Ill Get To FBI Database

(CBS)  One year ago Wednesday, Holly Sherman lost her daughter Leslie at Virginia Tech.

"She was everything I ever could've wanted in a child," Sherman said.

She's still mystified that Seung-Hui Cho, who had a history of bizarre and threatening behavior, so easily bought two handguns, CBS News correspondent Chip Reid reports.

Cho had been declared dangerously mentally ill by a court. Under federal law, Virginia authorities should have sent his name to an FBI database. When the gun stores ran their instant background checks his purchases should have been denied.

In the past year Virginia tightened its laws, sending thousands of names to the FBI, and Congress gave all the states financial incentives to do the same. But progress has been slow, at best.

A year ago there were 166,000 names in the FBI database, today, about 402,000. But an estimated 2.6 million Americans have been declared dangerously mentally ill.

"Eight out of 10 people that have a history of being dangerously mentally ill are still going to be able to buy a gun in this country," said Paul Helmke of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Seventeen states have yet to send a single name to the FBI.

Helmke notes that even if Cho's name had been in the system, he still could have bought his weapons at a gun show, where in 35 states no background check is required.

Virginia recently defeated an effort to close the so-called gun show loophole, despite lobbying by parents of Virginia Tech victims.

"If you have someone who's intent on committing criminal acts and they want to get a gun, they're gonna find a way to get a gun," said Morgan Griffith, the majority leader of the Virginia House of Delegates.

Holly Sherman agrees gun control is only part of the answer. The key, she says, is identifying people as disturbed as Cho long before they buy a gun, so that they can't do to other communities, what he did to Virginia Tech.

"Starting tomorrow, I'm going to try to turn around, and try to live again," Sherman said. "No matter where I have to turn to do it, that's what my goal is."

Turning over a new leaf is a goal shared by many at Virginia Tech.

[nodemotwit]

I would like to see the access to both firearms and ammunition by criminals and the mentally unstable minimized, specifically by having the Firearm part of the ATF take on some responsibilities that are similar to the Center of Disease Control (CDC). In the latter case, when someone contracts a population threatening disease (eg: tuberculoses), the CDC is, by law, notified by medical practitioners then acts A.R. to prevent the spread to the rest of the population. So, for the ATF, this would mean that :

** Medical practitioners would be required, by law, to report mentally unstable patients to the ATF in every case that they are deemed a threat to themselves or their family or the general population.
** The Armed services would be required, by law, to report any discharge from the service for serious mental problems.

Similarly, given the youth of many of these perps, a special case needs to be made wrt juvenile criminal records, specifically:

** Juvenile violent offenses would, by law, be reported to the ATF, and considered by the ATF until the age of 25, after which those records would be purged, unless those individuals developed an adult rap sheet involving more violent offenses by age 25.

THEN, the ATF, firearm dealers and gun show promoters would need to modernize their equipment such that both firearm and ammunition purchases are vetted by the ATF, online, w/128 bit encryption (ie: same security as CC purchases).

(cont)

[nodemotwit]

(cont)

And for those conservatives worried about the ATF tracking ammunition purchases, every purchasers name/address could be submitted by the gun shops computer along with a pool of randomly picked local state residents, with the ATF computer on the other end quickly (less that 1 second) providing an electronic thumbs up/down for all of them, then the gun shops computer would filter out all but the intended buyer. If the ATF were to track in this scenario then it would appear, over time, that 100% of the states adult residents are purchasing ammunition.


Since we give medical data to the CDC to protect the general populace I do not think it is as big stretch to give similar data to the ATF to, again, protect the general populace.

=======================



Additionally, the ATF needs to set national standards within which the state governments can restrict the parameters of firearm ownership AND interstate transportation for travel/vacation purposes.

** The former: To avoid DC-like scenarios, where self defense becomes a non-option. For example, states which wish to minimize clip capacity would have the single option of 10 rounds, nothing else. And truly self-defense threatening restrictions, like requiring a firearm to be disassembled and scattered into 4 corners of a house in individually locked
containers, or requiring a special tool to change a clip, like in CA, would be illegal per Federal law.

(cont)

[nodemotwit]

(cont)

** The latter: To avoid the imbecilic hodge-podge of different state firearm transportation rules across the US.


Finally, the ATF could be empowered to take steps to make it more costly for individuals w/a history of violent misdemeanor convictions (but no felonies) to LEGALLY (key word) acquire guns. For example, for a period of time (5yrs ?) after their most recent violent misdemeanor conviction they could be required to adhere to NFA-like requirements (mug shot, prints, gun tax, gun registration, interstate transportation restrictions, etc.). That would be a way to try and dissuade these individuals from proceeding onto violent felony infractions, and make it easier to ID the ones that do. But to thwart the inevitable vindictive spousal units associated w/US divorce you would need some stiff penalties for staged events leading to false convictions.

(cont)

[nodemotwit]

(cont)

But this only addresses part of the problem. Some other aspects are that :

** In certain states, liberals encourage illegal immigration and, by default, the illegal documentation industries that enable the former, and therefore the ''drivers license as ID'' for gun/ammunition purchases, as vetted in such an ATF system/responsibility upgrade as outlined above, would be much less robust. For this reason, National ID or similar protocols may be required.

** In certain states, human life has become too cheap. For example, the rap sheet of the perp Arthur Mann, who recently (2-28-08) got life in GA for shooting his ex-girlfriend, in public, shows that he was previously released after serving only FOUR years of a pathetic 10yr sentence for a prior murder in FL. I do not know if this is due to the liberal anthem of the ''perp is the victim'', or neocons who are too cheap to push for execution-or-life incarceration for murder, or maybe both, but FOUR years for murder ??
And even when these murderers are condemned to life in prison, what are they faced with ?
A lifetime of :
__free medical care,
__free food
__bed with fresh linen
__air conditioning and heat
__exercise, and
__reading materials.

All at taxpayer expense.
Wow.
I bet Arthur Mann was in that GA courtroom, just begging for the death penalty.

(cont)

[nodemotwit]

(cont)

(As a side note, why is it OK to use DNA evidence to free a death row inmate, but not OK to use DNA evidence to put someone on death row ? And if DNA evidence can accelerate someone off death row quickly (and rightly so), why couldnt it also accelerate their execution, especially when multiple witness and/or video of the crime are also involved ? ).

** In certain states, conservatives have implemented what are known as Project Exile laws (eg: VA). Specifically, felons are already prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms (which, of course, does not prevent them from doing so when they leave prison, eg: Arthur Mann), but, with Project Exile, a felon even being caught jaywalking while in possession of a firearm will result in a 5yr incarceration w/o parole. This should be made into a Federal law applicable to all states, whether the sates want it or not, but it would have to be prosecuted in Federal courts to not financially burden states.

(cont)

[nodemotwit]

(cont)

This would still leave states to restrict citizen carry laws off their property, outside of their autos, as the state sees fit. Keep in mind though, that still would leave the looney left entities to make their childish gun laws, like requiring law abiding gun owners to transport their firearms outside their homes in a locked container with the word ''''GUN'''' in big white letters on the case (eg: Boulder, CO, Jan 17, 2001). Presumably this was so that their non-gun owning neighbors could be alerted to such a heinous threat so that they could start running around their home interiors, in circular desperation, hands flailing in the air, shrieking, until their law abiding but obviously evil gun-owning neighbor drove out of sight.


But, that being said, I do not see why some common sense steps, possibly those outlined above, could not be taken to restrict access to both firearms and ammunition by criminals and the mentally unstable. The only problem is that all of this would require our liberal, conservative and independent representatives to come together and make it happen. Seeing all the other un-enforced laws they are already collectively responsible for, Im not holding my breath.

[memerider]

America has no "love affair" with guns. We have a history that reminds us that we fought off the British and later fought off slavery with guns. And the only reasonable means of self-defense, especially for women and the frail, is a gun.

We are seeing world-wide what happens when people allow their right to keep and bear arms limited. Mexico has criminals, corrupt government officials, the military and police all raping and brutalizing people, enslaving them in drug processing or prostitution. The military actually had to disarm the police because it was so bad!

Wake up, people. Your only means of self-defense for a home invasion or car-jacking is a gun. Period. Dropped 911 calls or police arriving 5 minutes after-the-fact are not helpful.

[memerider]

The real problem is well-known to psychiatrists--it''s impossible to predict who might snap. So we take draconian measures, setting up expensive, complex databases that require many dollars and man-hours to purchase, populate, and maintain for limited or no results, keeping more police in the office.

Sociopaths exhibit animal cunning, and are not easily identified. They hide their dark side and learn from psychologists how to beat the system.

So all the Bra dy and Bloomb erg grandstanding ends up costing ordinary citizens their hard-earned money and their rights--for nothing. We all want to stop insane people and criminals from committing violent acts, but disarming ourselves so we have no means of self-defense and building databases isn''t it.

all the laws in the country cannot prevent someone
from buying a gun. there are enough stolen or
missing guns available from any and all types of
sources, you may as well pass a law limiting the
height of waves in the ocean.

[michellem99-2009]

what about this..have a means to lock/unlock a gun..by biomectic means,,password/senor that read the user''s print..THE LOVE AFFIAR WITH THE GUN IN AMERICA HAS TO HAVE LIMITS..WHERE TO DRAW THE LINE..here is the problem..gents and ladies..the gun can be bought on the street/black market..they can be built..well.

[libsrweak]

How about before any person is allowed to buy a gun
a 30 day waiting period be instituted that includes a full background check to see if this person should be allowed to own a firearm.

I don''''t see any problem with this,certainly is much better that trying to take firearms away from the
law abiding citizens out there.



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Posted by ratchow1962 at 12:02 PM : Apr 17, 2008
+ report abuse


***************

we already have that law...the problem is we are very relaxed with that law..too many political correctness involved.

[libsrweak]

Let me say this again,I am not in favor of punishing law abiding gun owners in the US anymore I do for law abiding gun owners in Canada,but just want to make getting a firearms much more diffucult for the criminals and the mentally ill persons in this country as well as your country.




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Posted by ratchow1962 at 02:07 PM : Apr 17, 2008
+ report abuse


*************

easy..ENFORCE THE LAW..instead of trying to find every excuse and reason to CIRCUMVENT THE LAW..

[ratchow1962]

gunownerdan

Just for the record here,I live in Canada,but do love and have a great respect for the US and and sickened by the senseless violence that as taken place such as the tragedy at Virginia Tech as well as many others across your great nation.

I can agree with the instant background check though as this story says,in 35 states they don''t do background checks at gunshows.How about if we close that loophole as well.


Let me say this again,I am not in favor of punishing law abiding gun owners in the US anymore I do for law abiding gun owners in Canada,but just want to make getting a firearms much more diffucult for the criminals and the mentally ill persons in this country as well as your country.

The most difficult part of trying to separate persons who are "disturbed" and "threatening" from guns is that so many of those who OWN guns are "disturbed" and "threatening." Charlton Heston brandishing a firearm above his head and ranting about "cold dead hands" does little to inspire our confidence in the sanity of gun holders. Listening or reading comments from persons bent on protecting the rest of humanity by carrying weapons on campuses just in case another nutcase shows up in an auditorium, actually bragging about the possibility of unleashing massive firepower in an enclosed space jammed with human bodies, does little to help us determine which are the persons with guns to be avoided and which are to be encouraged. America''s love affair with the gun needs a divorce.

[gunownerdan]

threatened, not threated.

[gunownerdan]

ratchow1962,
I don''t agree with a 30-day waiting period. Background checks can and should be done in minutes.
What if someone''s life has been threated by a dangerous person?
They should not be forced to wait a month before they can pick up their gun to defend themselves.

[ratchow1962]

gunownerdan

See if you agree with this.

How about before any person is allowed to buy a gun
a 30 day waiting period be instituted that includes a full background check to see if this person should be allowed to own a firearm.

I don''t see any problem with this,certainly is much better that trying to take firearms away from the
law abiding citizens out there.

[payasyougo]

"One year ago Wednesday, Holly Sherman lost her daughter Leslie at Virginia Tech...."

"Holly Sherman agrees gun control is only part of the answer. The key, she says, is identifying people as disturbed as Cho long before they buy a gun..."

...identifying people as disturbed as Cho long before they buy a gun..."

Or build a bomb, or a molotof coctail, or load their children in a car and drive it into a lake, or drive into a crowd near the street, or fly their small airplane into a building, ...

[gunownerdan]

Anyone with a history of severe mental illness or violence should never be allowed to have guns.
That''s just asking for trouble.
But the fact is no law can keep bad people from harming others.
Good people need to be able to protect themselves if they choose to do so.

"The peaceable part of mankind will be continually overrun by the vile and abandoned, while they neglect the means of self defense."
- Thomas Paine

[michellem99-2009]

I am for the guns being out of the paws that hsve no right to bear them..So the constution does give us rights and those rights mean we who can''t bear arms must not..I DON''T FOR BEING BLIND.Why was this man allowed a gun in the first place. I know if people would learn from this..then deal with why they must have that gun..Please put waiting peroids on them..