Polygamy Sect Moms Told To Leave Children

Authorities Allow Only Mothers With Children 4 Or Younger To Stay During Custody Hearings

(CBS/AP)  Texas officials who took 416 children from a polygamist retreat into state custody sent many of their mothers away Monday, as a judge and lawyers struggled with a legal and logistical morass in one of the biggest child-custody cases in U.S. history.

Of the 139 women who voluntarily left the compound with their children since an April 3 raid, only those with children 4 or younger were allowed to continue staying with them, said Marissa Gonzales, spokeswoman for the state Children's Protective Services agency. She did not know how many women stayed.

"It is not the normal practice to allow parents to accompany the child when an abuse allegation is made," she said.

The women were given a choice: Return to the Eldorado ranch of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a renegade Mormon sect, or go to another safe location. Some women chose the latter, Gonzales said.

The agency said they took this action after consulting mental health experts and attorneys who thought it would be best to separate the mothers from their children, reports CBS News correspondent Hari Sreenivasan.

On Monday night, about three dozen women, many of them mothers, sobbed and held onto each other outside a log cabin on the sect's ranch, recounting the way police officers encircled them in a room and told them that they could not stay.

One woman, Marie, said the women weren't allowed to say goodbye to their crying children.

"They said, 'your children are ours,"' said the sobbing 32-year-old whose three sons are aged 9, 7 and 5 and who would not give her last name. "We could not even ask a question."

She said the children at the ranch have not been abused, but she feels like "they are being abused from this experience." She said the children have been "have been so protected and loved."

The women believe the abuse complaint that led to the raid came from a bitter person outside their community.

Brenda, a 37-year-old mother of two, said CPS officials did not tell the women they would be separated from their children or why the children were removed from the compound. CPS also gave the women inaccurate information about opportunities to meet with attorneys, she said.

"We got to where we said, we cannot believe a word you say. We cannot trust you," she said.

A call to CPS for comment on the women's claims was not immediately returned Monday night.

The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption. The sheer size of the case was an obstacle.

"Quite frankly, I'm not sure what we're going to do," Texas District Judge Barbara Walther said after a conference that included three to four dozen attorneys either representing or hoping to represent youngsters.

The mothers were taken away Monday after they and the children were taken by bus under heavy security out of historic Fort Concho, where they had been staying, to the San Angelo Coliseum, which holds nearly 5,000 people and is used for hockey games, rodeos and concerts. The polygamist retreat is about 45 miles south of San Angelo.

Some of the youngsters' mothers complained to Gov. Rick Perry that the children were getting sick in the crowded fort. About 20 children had a mild case of chickenpox, said Dr. Sandra Guerra-Cantu with the state Health Department.

Perry spokesman Robert Black said the governor did not believe the children were being housed in poor conditions at the West Texas fort. "Let's be honest here, this is not the Ritz," Black said, but he called the accommodations "clean and neat."

CPS said the move to the coliseum had been in the works since last week, but couldn't be done sooner because the facility had been booked for another event and had to be cleaned and set up for the children.

CPS also said about two dozen teenage boys were moved to a facility outside San Angelo with the judge's permission. "We don't normally say where we place teens," Gonzales said when asked where they were sent.

Monday's courtroom conference was held to work out the ground rules for a court hearing beginning Thursday on the fate of the children.

The judge made no immediate decisions on how the hearing will be carried out. Among the questions left unanswered: Would a courtroom big enough to hold everyone be available at the Tom Green County Courthouse, or would some kind of video link be employed?
Texas bar officials said more than 350 lawyers from across the state have volunteered to represent the children free of charge. Moreover, the 139 mothers who voluntarily left the sect to be with their children will need lawyers, too, to help them fight for custody.

The sheer numbers left the judge perplexed as she considered suggestions from the lawyers for how to handle Thursday's hearing.

"It would seem inefficient to have a witness testify 416 times," the judge offered. "If I gave everybody five minutes, that would be 70 hours."

In an unintended illustration of the problem, Walther gave the lawyers 30 minutes to break into groups and report back to her with ideas. It took almost two hours for everyone to reassemble.

The raid followed a call to a domestic violence hot line from a 16-year-old girl who said she was beaten and raped by her 50-year-old husband.

In addition to becoming a monumental legal morass, the case is proving to be a public-relations headache for the state.

Over the weekend, some of the mothers went on the offensive, complaining the children are falling ill and are frightened and traumatized from living in cramped conditions at the fort, with cots, cribs and playpens lined up side by side.

The secretive nature of the sect - and the indoctrination children receive from birth to mistrust outsiders - have added to the confusion.

Randoll Stout, one of the lawyers who plan to represent some of the children, said the youngsters "seem to change their names. Adults change their names. Children are passed around."

Betty Balli Torres, executive director of the Texas Access to Justice Foundation, said 10 women went into the San Angelo legal aid office last week seeking help and reported there were 100 more women who needed lawyers.

Attorneys began meeting with the women over the weekend. She said it was vital that the mothers be represented by lawyers. Otherwise, they could lose their children - "what we call kind of the death penalty of family law cases," she said.

A church lawyer, Rod Parker, said the 60 or so men remaining on the 1,700-acre ranch have offered to leave the compound if the state would allow the women and children to return to the place with child welfare monitors. But the state Children's Protective Services agency said it had not yet seen the offer and had no comment on it.

The sect practices polygamy in arranged marriages between underage girls and older men. The group has thousands of followers in two side-by-side towns in Arizona and Utah. The sect's prophet and spiritual leader, Warren Jeffs, is in prison for forcing an underage age into a marriage in Utah.

[naturaltwo]

Two wrongs do not make a right and the Texas authoritites have proven why they have and get no respect. They are just as totalitarian as the sect is. "Your children are ours now." Only until you get tired of them and shove them off on other abusers.

May they both rot in the hell of their arrogance.

[skyk-2009]

Two wrongs do not make a right and the Texas authoritites have proven why they have and get no respect. They are just as totalitarian as the sect is. "Your children are ours now." Only until you get tired of them and shove them off on other abusers.

May they both rot in the hell of their arrogance.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by naturaltwo at 06:56 AM : Apr 15, 2008
+ report abuse

My God what is wrong with you people. This KIDS were being ABUSED, used as Sexual Slaves!! You don''t just nod and wink at women who have sat back and ALLOWED this to go on, and on, and on! These Women were PART of and involved in Crimes so breath taking it''s hard to imagine. Maybe they didn''t force those kids to have *** with men old enough to be their grand fathers and then again maybe they did, we just don''t know at this point. What we do KNOW is that they stayed in that place KNOW it was going on and did absolutely NOTHING to stop it. God were do people like you come from???

[fibonacci_]

Wake up religious people! You all believe in a bunch of baloney! Every one of you seems to "know" you are right. Curious, huh?

[sevenveils]

Isn''t it odd that not one single picture has been shown of a male POLYGAMIST? One would think that these male criminals would have been arrested or at least held in check by now. These men are the root of every crime committed in the band of outlaws.

[itgranny]

this story rings of the cuban elian gonzolez story, taking kids away from their parents. I guess my problem is why they didn''t bother getting more evidence first before they picked up the moms and kids. From how evil these people seem to be (???), it must be out there. Yet another case of cart before the horse.

[donevis-2009]

I''m glad we have people like MyOpinion1 around. Such great insight to be able to convict a group of people with out a trial. Wake up idiot!! The men that committed the crimes are supposed to be the ones we arrest and put on trial. Lets just tear children away from their mothers because MyOpinion1 is Judge and Jury!! Go back to Russia!!

[eamundok]

Obviously we do not have enough, or any, federal laws on the books that explicitly define cults. What were we waiting for? "It''s time to drink your kool-aid, dear." I''ve seen nothing about where they were burying their dead. Did they have a graveyard? Were deaths reported to the local ME? Where did they seek medical help, or did they? Were only a few of the young males chosen to remain in order to maintain a favorable male to female ratio?
The mothers are just as brainwashed as the children - they only know what propaganda has been fed to them by the males in control. To them, life in the compound was the way it is supposed to be -- They''ve been taught that the boogie-man lives outside the compound. The whole time the male leaders accummulate money and collect child concubines. Were they carrying a tax-exempt status too? Were the children working the cheese factory?
When is a religion a cult? When those in authoritative positions completely control and exploit those in weaker positions for their own self-indulgence.

[kennedy7955]

The government hasn''t done its homework and taken children away from their parents without cause. I expect this will go badly for the government. What jury would allow this?

The rule of law would be to arrest each of the guilty (both men and women), and then due process would decide the fate of the children.

What is going on in this country?

[kennedy7955]

This say''s it all...

"Quite frankly, I''m not sure what we''re going to do."
Texas District Judge Barbara Walther

Another incompetent in our justice system.

[bwright923]

How long has this sect been around? I ask that because when looking at the picture of the women talking to the man some of them, especially the younger ones, look a little....inbred.

[fibonacci_]

The dresses they are wearing remind me of what Anthony Perkins wears when playing Norma Bates in Psycho.

Wake up religious! Dont believe that baloney! After all, there is no evidence for it!

[grumpas]

I will have to agree with MyOpinion1 all the way! I don''t think most of you have clue what you are talking about. You assume because the government did this en mass that they are wrong. These fundamentalist people (and I call them people loosely) hide behind religion to do their dirty work. It''s nothing for all the daughters in a family to be raped by their father regularly. This is common practice because they are a community shut off from normal society mores. There is no one around to stop such an animal. The girls are expected to obey their parents down to who they marry. If they don''t the girls are beaten. How do you escape abuse when you have no where to go????? You have no money and have shut off from the outside world all your life. Most of you are making the mistake of assuming these are normal religious people when they aren''t!

[cocallag]

How does this sect support itself? What do they do for a living? It must have cost millions to build that compound. It doesn''t seem like welfare dollars would be enough to pay for all of that.

[itgranny]

If they did their homework so well and are so prepared for this, why are these kids being warehoused in churches etc? One would think that they would have thought things through enough to wonder how they were going to accomodate 450 kids.

Why arent'' these men sitting in jail cells facing rape charges? That''s what would happen in the real world. Why arent'' these women sitting in jail facing child abuse charges?

Because of sloppy plans, these people are going to get away with this, just like the group did in 1953. Do some research and you''ll find the "outside world" (us) can be made into the boogy monster because they didn''t put enough planning and foresite into the matter. What I want is for this practice to come to an end and as it looks right now, we can huff and puff all we want, but some slick lawyer is going to get these sickos off.

[cocallag]

How does this sect support itself? What do they do for a living? It must have cost millions to build that compound. It doesn''t seem like welfare dollars would be enough to pay for all of that.

[afmca]

This is another one of the sick, sadistic male dominanted sects operating under the disguise of religion. When will we learn that even the most established religions are male dominated and were set up to maintain that order? These sects just take it to the extreme and their abuse of women and female children is dispicable. That they then raise another generation of sadistic male dominating sexists is the real poison these groups bring to society. Seperate the women until the brain washing goes away and never let the children return so they can have a chance for a normal life.

[barbaraf4]

How does this sect support itself? What do they do for a living? It must have cost millions to build that compound. It doesn''t seem like welfare dollars would be enough to pay for all of that. Posted by cocallag
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Welfare just might be financing this. Consider that we would only recognize one legal wife per "marriage". Everyone else is a single mother.

[displeased]

They know from the countless hours spent investigating the leader of the pedophiles, Jeffs, and convicting that thing and getting him into prison that getting those children OUT of there asap was a top priority.
Posted by MyOpinion1

Yes, and the countless hours (four years) they spent investigating the compound. I would hope the police wouldn''t waste their time with an investigation if their wasn''t a certain level of reasonable suspicion. I am disappointed with their lack of "after the raid" planning. It kind of reminds me of Bush''s lack of "after invasion" planning with Iraq. It must be a Texas thing.

[displeased]

Most of you are making the mistake of assuming these are normal religious people when they aren''''t!
Posted by grumpas

I didn''t know there was a such thing as "normal" religious people.

[pastdue1]

The poster who said that the men should have been removed, not the children, was right (and, incidently, hanged by their genitals in the colisium) According to the article, the remaining men at the compound have offered to leave, but judging from the judgment of Texans in authority, they probably will not accept this solution, citing some legalese to prevent it. Invasive action with no planning, pre or post, seems to be a Texan characteristic. Hopefully, this lack of judgment by those with power will only cost Texas, not the whole world.

[newmark3]

These are some sick evil sadistic men to do this perverted thing. I feel sorry for the kids and women because they are brain washed. I agree with (afmca) break up this cult and if there are any more of these cults in this country they need to be disposed of, these men are pedophiles and using religion to do this perverted act. Keep the women separated and get them some mental help and and assist them with raising all these kids. This is when the government needs to spend money to help these types of situations in our country. This is modern day sexual slavery.

[rowdytexan2]

I agree it would''ve been better to remove the men from the compound. But to do that, they would''ve had to have warrants, and they couldn''t get warrants until they had proof.

Taking the women and children out was the best thing they could do at the time to ensure their safety until they could get the evidence they need. God knows what these screwed up men would''ve done in desperation.

I hope they can return these women and children back to their homes and create some kind of stability. They should hire enough children''s service personnel, and some psychologists to be there with them 24/7 and help to debug the brainwashing of these women and children until they can function as free thinking individuals.

They have been abused by these men long enough!

[inventagod]

Why aren''t Cathoholics ordered to do the same?
Again, a religious cult, abusing kids - with parents allowing it...

[swwils]

Well of course these mothers are upset,they have been brain washed since they were infants by these leaders.They have no clue how modern society even functions.They will scream,and rant and rave,because they have some high dollar attorneys telling them how to act,you can guarantee that.They have big money at that sect,because they were bleeding the welfare system dry.

[Latrocinor]

How silly the whole thing is.

All people and property belong to the government to do with as it see''s fit.

DUH!

[mswolfestock]

My head is spinning with the ridiculousness of this whole situation. It looks to me like a cult-like religion has caused mass hysteria and irrationality in the state of Texas. They just don''t want another Waco/David Koresh thing to happen again, but that is no excuse for them to get buffaloed by some nut case calling in to a domestic abuse hotline. I think a prank got way, way out of hand, but those people in the Yearning For Zion Ranch need to quit isolating themselves and keeping their members in a constant state of paranoia and fear of the "outside world." This is what happens when Two Worlds Collide.

[wdrussell1]

Notice how quiet the religious right is on this.
Fr. Graham, Falwell jr, Hagee, Wildmon, Robertson, Roberts, the AFA.
As long as it is their pedophiles getting laid they don''''t have a problem with it.
________

[fibonacci_]

Wake up religious people! You believe in things where there is no evidence for it whatsoever! Be strong!

[cpaide]

"only those with children 4 or younger were allowed to continue staying with them, said Marissa Gonzales, spokeswoman for the state Children''s Protective Services agency." "Quite frankly, I''m not sure what we''re going to do," Texas District Judge Barbara Walther

are there any non-lesbians involved with this case?

"The agency said they took this action after consulting mental health experts and attorneys who thought it would be best to separate the mothers from their children"

ya, attorneys who want to take the white children and adopt them out for a nice fee. and who is the mental health expert? "doctor" phil?

[cpaide]

"we dont need their ''little house on the Prairie'' moms continuing the process."
Posted by DaVicar2

yes, let''s hurry and get them in the hands of some mtv and south park moms like you so we can turn them into little ***** like your kids.

[reedtaz73]

You people don''t get it...The government fabricated that story of the pregnant teen to gain entrance inside the church. That is wrong...kind of like that ''weapons of mass destruction'' fiasco that has us sending our youth to their deaths. The government lied about coinpro by not announcing it''s existance, the so called drug war against users but not manufactuers,and the government demanding financial records of mega churches. What''s next?

[Syndicate]

At this point you arm yourself and storm the state capital.

[minnick8-2009]

Raiding the compound is not going to stop polygamy any more than other things are going to stop out in the real world like prostitution, adultery, divorce, remarriage, divorce remarriage, divorce remarriage, and on and on, alternative lifestyles such as g a y s, or anything else going on that people dream up under the sun.

It would be very nice if the polygamists would at least monitor themselves to the point that they allow their young girls to grow to legal age unmolested and make their own decisions about education, marriage, and children. They should at least allow their children the opportunity of a high school education while they are growing unmolested. The way they work their system is that by the time a woman is old enough to realize she has personal power to make her own choices, she already has ten children and no education. Of course she is going to stay at that point. If she left, she wouldn''t be allowed to take her children.

This whole fiasco in Texas is going to take years to provide counseling to the women and children and help them with job skills to work towards self sufficiency.

[bdrlnt4rl]

anyone bored yet?

[minnick8-2009]

WD Russell1,

The situation with the polygamists doesn''t have anything to do with Graham, Falwell jr., Hagee, Wildmon, Robertson, or Roberts. Why should they have comments?

[tjdesocio]

you people who don''t know anything about the many religions out there should stop spewing. why doesn''t texas just show these kids how to have fun, and read them the actual bible, and let them sing their songs, then if they get to go back the the ''ranch'' they can start asking some informed questions about why their ''religion'' is soooooooo different than what the bible says

[dragonmouse-2009]

I don''t know anymore. IF abuse was being committed then the WOMEN should be convicted just as the men if they took part in wittnessing it.

To me a simple DNA test to pair childern of girl 17 and under with the men over 30 would be documentation of possible abuse. If they find that several men 25-30 fathered children by under underage mothers then they have grounds for abuse.

If not...well then as much as we disagree they are free to do what they do. I would put forth a simple doctrine encouraging all girls 10 and up to get some sort of "predator" training to prevent this.

[bm6005]

So how does this fit in with the usual black welfare queen theories we hear about so often? They all look white to me! Come on rednecks, your turn!

[minnick8-2009]

tjdescio,

So, what exactly to you know about the polygamists that makes you an expert?

[minnick8-2009]

I don''t think that anyone ever said the only people on welfare are black.

[marcodele]

Send in the Fashion Police and arrest them all.

[bm6005]

I don''''t think that anyone ever said the only people on welfare are black.
Posted by minnick8

Obviously you don''t know any rednecks. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence and records most rednecks believe that blacks are the majority on welfare rolls! I didn''t mean to imply that this was discussed here, just an observation. These people (FLDS) are supported by lots of welfare dollars.

[minnick8-2009]

bm

Hahahah, I''m glad to know you think I don''t know any rednecks. Does everyone in here think that everyone else in here is stupid? Why would you presume to know more about the polygamists than, for example, me?

[blogsiren]

Although our Constitution allows for freedom of religion, the "men" running this guise are using the system on many levels. These men are pedophiles. It is that simple. The women are indentured slaves and that some are seeking freedom from this environment is not a surprise. What is a surprise, is any of them would want their son''s and daughters to continue in a lifestyle where they themselves recognize the abuses. Whether or not they are abusing our governmental systems isn''t as big an issue as allowing them to live as free people and not victims.

[minnick8-2009]

Raiding the compound is not going to stop polygamy any more than other things are going to stop out in the real world like prostitution, adultery, divorce, remarriage, divorce remarriage, divorce remarriage, and on and on, alternative lifestyles such as g a y s, or anything else going on that people dream up under the sun.

It would be very nice if the polygamists would at least monitor themselves to the point that they allow their young girls to grow to legal age unmolested and make their own decisions about education, marriage, and children. They should at least allow their children the opportunity of a high school education while they are growing unmolested. The way they work their system is that by the time a woman is old enough to realize she has personal power to make her own choices, she already has ten children and no education. Of course she is going to stay at that point. If she left, she wouldn''''t be allowed to take her children.

This whole fiasco in Texas is going to take years to provide counseling to the women and children and help them with job skills to work towards self sufficiency.

[minnick8-2009]

Well, now we certainly do have a bonifide idiot in here. It is time to work.

[gurusavant]

why would men think it is their god given privilege to copulate with several women at the same time? NOTHING anyone in this compound has done has contributed positively to society as a whole, that would at least hint toward the beneficiality of their insatiable, and questionable sexual desire...not even their awkward attempts to explain ''god'' to the rest of the world.

[dinodavid220]

minnick8.......I dont think i dreamed up being GAY. Wasnt much of a choice for me.
You sure type alot of BLAA BLAA BLAA.....seems you should be at work and stop being a no-it all blogger.....

[oleander8]

"The state is accusing the sect of physically and sexually abusing the youngsters and wants to strip their parents of custody and place the children in foster care or put them up for adoption."

I don''t know what the answer is to this very real problem - but the answer is not throwing these children into the foster-care system, or removing their mothers from their lives. This smacks of when American Indian children were forcibly removed from their families and raised in institution in order to "assimilate" them -- that didn''t work either.

[minnick8-2009]

The young girls who are indoctrinated into the polygamist life at puberty for the purpose of creating children for their husbands do not know that they have a choice. They don''t know about choices until they are in their twenties and thirties, and by that time, they have ten children and no education.

What I type about polygamy is not blah blah blah. My mother was in polygamy, my sister was in polygamy, and my three brothers were raised in it. I tried to get my brothers out and help them have a better life. My one brother spend 17 years in a mental institution, one brother has been divorced and remarried twice, and his alcoholism has affected at least 9 children, and my last brother is in prison in Nevada for molesting his step daughter; he will probably never get out. I think I know something about the subject.