ELDORADO, Texas, April 10, 2008

Forced Sex Alleged At Compound Temple

Young Girls In Polygamist Sect Required To Have Sex In White Temple, Court Documents Say

  • Play CBS Video Video Prosecutors Target Polygamists

    Legal proceedings have begun against a polygamist sect in Texas from which over 400 children were removed amid allegations of sexual and physical abuse. Hari Sreenivasan reports.

  • Video Polygamy Sect Kids Questioned

    The 401 children removed from a polygamist compound in Texas are being questioned individually. Authorities believe that all of them have been abused or neglected. Hari Sreenivasan reports.

  • Video Texas' Child Abuse Case

    Authorities say more than 400 children have been taken from a polygamist compound and placed in state custody as they investigate if one of them had been an underage bride. Hari Sreenivasan reports.

    • A law enforcement official is seen as members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints sit along the covered porch of a structure at the groups temporary housing, Fort Concho National Historic Landmark, in San Angelo, Texas, Tuesday, April 8, 2008. Photo

      A law enforcement official is seen as members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints sit along the covered porch of a structure at the groups temporary housing, Fort Concho National Historic Landmark, in San Angelo, Texas, Tuesday, April 8, 2008.  (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

    • Levi Barlow Jeffs, 19 and Johnson Steed, 41, who were arrested April 7, 2008 on charges of felony tampering with evidence in connection with the investigation at the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints near Eldorado, Texas. Photo

      Levi Barlow Jeffs, 19 and Johnson Steed, 41, who were arrested April 7, 2008 on charges of felony tampering with evidence in connection with the investigation at the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints near Eldorado, Texas.  (AP/Texas Dept. of Public Safety)

    • Adult members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, stand around as children play with bottles of bubble water at their temporary housing, Fort Concho National Historic Landmark, in San Angelo, Texas, April 7, 2008. Photo

      Adult members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, stand around as children play with bottles of bubble water at their temporary housing, Fort Concho National Historic Landmark, in San Angelo, Texas, April 7, 2008.  (AP)

    • This aerial view shows the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints compound under construction near Eldorado, Texas, in this March 2, 2005 file photo. Photo

      This aerial view shows the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints compound under construction near Eldorado, Texas, in this March 2, 2005 file photo.  (AP Photo/Donna McWilliam, file)

    • Law enforcement officials escort members of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints onto a school bus in Eldorado, Texas, Sunday, April 6, 2008. Authorities took 220 women and children from the compound. The group was relocated to San Angelo, Texas. Photo

      Law enforcement officials escort members of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints onto a school bus in Eldorado, Texas, Sunday, April 6, 2008. Authorities took 220 women and children from the compound. The group was relocated to San Angelo, Texas.  (AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez)

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  • Photo Essay Polygamist Compound Raid

    Secret calls from alleged abuse victim lead to raid of religious sect's compound.

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    Find out more about the beliefs, practices and history of some of the world's major religions.

(CBS/AP)  Young teenage girls at a polygamist compound in West Texas were required to have sex in a soaring white temple after they were married in sect-recognized unions, according to court documents unsealed Wednesday.

The temple "contains an area where there is a bed where males over the age of 17 engage in sexual activity with female children under the age of 17," said an affidavit quoting a confidential informant who left the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Agents found a bed in the temple with disturbed linens and what appeared to be a female hair, said the affidavit signed by Texas Ranger Leslie Brooks Long. The Rangers are the state's investigative law enforcement arm.

The temple also contained multiple locked safes, vaults and desk drawers that authorities sought access to as they searched for records showing alleged marriages of underage girls as young as 12 or 13 to older men and births among the teens. The affidavit unsealed Wednesday mentions a 16-year-old girl who has four children.

Texas law prohibits polygamy and the marriage of girls under 16.

Early Show national correspondent Hattie Kauffman reports that compounds like the one in Texas is paid for by taxpayers in the form of welfare.

The more kids, the bigger the welfare check, Kauffman says.

Lori Allen, a woman who had escaped from polygamy, said, "Some of the women in this town have 26 babies."

Also Wednesday, Texas Department of Public Safety troopers completed a weeklong search of the 1,700-acre grounds, said spokeswoman Tela Mange.

Lawyers for the sect had wanted to cut off the wide-ranging search as it dragged on but agreed in court Wednesday to the appointment of a special master who will vet what is expected to be hundreds of boxes of records, computers and even family Bibles for records that should not become evidence for legal or religious reasons.

Attorneys for the church argued that a search of the 1,700-acre compound was unconstitutional, reports CBS News correspondent Hari Sreenivasan.

Gerry Goldstein, a San Antonio lawyer flanked by nine other attorneys the church hired, said the search of the temple is analogous to a law enforcement search of the Vatican or other holy places. The church lawyers described in documents three men being dragged from the temple as law enforcement sought entry for the search.

Troopers also arrested two men over the week and charged them with interfering with the search.

Prosecutor Allison Palmer argued the search was to uncover any evidence of criminal activity, not to malign a religion.

The search of the compound in Eldorado, 40 miles south of San Angelo, began last Thursday after a 16-year-old girl called a local family violence shelter to report her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her. The search warrant covered all documents related to marriages among sect members, including photos and entries possibly written in family Bibles.

Fast Fact

State officials said the women and children were in good overall health but would not comment on pregnancies.

Since then, the state has taken legal custody of 416 children, who are being housed at two sites in San Angelo, about 200 miles west of San Antonio. Another 139 women voluntarily left the compound of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - known as the YFZ Ranch - and were being housed with the children.

Goldstein said a federal search warrant was issued as well as the state warrants.

Outside court, Goldstein declined to comment on the allegations against the church.

Court documents said a number of teen girls at the compound were pregnant, and all the children were removed on the grounds that they were in danger of "emotional, physical, and-or sexual abuse."

On Wednesday, state officials said the women and children were in good overall health but would not comment on pregnancies. About a dozen children appear to have chicken pox but were being separated at the evacuation sites, which include an old historic fort and a convention center here, said Child Protective Services spokesman Chris Van Deusen.

Authorities were trying to determine the identities and parentage of many of the children; some were unwilling or unable to provide the names of their biological parents or identified multiple mothers.

Officials still aren't sure where the 16-year-old girl is who made the initial call, and she is not named among the children in initial custody petitions by the state.

Texas has an outstanding arrest warrant for the man alleged to have been the girl's husband, Dale Barlow, 50. He's a registered sex offender who pleaded no contest to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor in Mohave County, Ariz., last year.

An unknown number of men and women stayed at the ranch while authorities completed the search of the gleaming 80-foot-high temple, a cheese-making plant, a cement plant, a school, a doctor's office and housing units.

The Texas investigation is the state's first of FLDS members, but prosecutors in Utah and Arizona have pursued several church members in recent years, including sect leader Warren Jeffs. He is serving two consecutive sentences of five years to life for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old wed to her cousin in Utah. He awaits trial on other charges in Arizona.



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Add a Comment See all 478 Comments
by fibonacci_ April 9, 2008 9:25 AM PDT
Almost anything goes under the cover of religion.
Reply to this comment
by drivelphobe April 9, 2008 9:38 AM PDT
Isn''t religion great? Child abuse seems to be the great motivator. How sick. From sacrificing young virgins, female genital mutilation to raping children, it just keeps going on and on. Nice. Pass the plate.
Reply to this comment
by speakinup April 9, 2008 9:39 AM PDT
"Almost anything goes under the cover of religion. Posted by fibonacci


Sure - fibonacci. With respect to your statement showing your prejudice about religions. Your statement is the same as if I were to say, "Almost anything goes under the cover of being an Atheist."


Because of the actions of a few, you condemn the whole. Are ALL atheists this way ?
Reply to this comment
by speakinup April 9, 2008 9:40 AM PDT
Well - they seem to be getting closer to all being prejudice - given drivelphobe''s statement.
Reply to this comment
by lochlan-2009 April 9, 2008 9:55 AM PDT
These poor children. This has to be done, but seperating them from their parents is devestating for the mothers and the children. On the other hand, we don''t know how dangerous these people could be to their children if they are allowed next to them, they might try to hurt them or kill them.
It''s really unfortunate for these kids and the mothers caught up in this abuse, who might never see each other again. That''s where the government are beginning to step over the line on their authority.
Reply to this comment
by dorlockt April 9, 2008 10:03 AM PDT
If the people that post here were as intelligent as they think they are then they would know this is a cult, not a religion.

Posted by shammock112 at 09:55 AM : Apr 09, 2008

This is CBSnews.com. Where''s the intelligence in that?
Reply to this comment
by dorlockt April 9, 2008 10:19 AM PDT
G*ds work, religious failure, lets not forget the catholic church and its rape of children by priests, and they showed a "blind eye" to what was happening to those kids. And people complain and condemn librals and atheists.

Posted by zoe2006 at 09:19 AM : Apr 09, 2008


People don''t randomly condemn liberals. People condemn liberals and atheists moreso than conservatives because with conservatives, being a complete degenerate is the exception rather than the rule.

And this is by no means, God''s work.
Reply to this comment
by dogsoul April 9, 2008 10:32 AM PDT
...(begin sarcastic tone) yes, before modern religions came onto the seen, everyone lived & peace & harmony - there was never any rape, pillage or plunder - yes... the Godless world would be soooo much better (end sarcastic tone)

Fact is that with a few distinct exceptions - religion has done FAR more to mitigate the innate savage nature of man than it has exacerbated it... Atheists are too egocentric & frankly stupid to understand that their OWN sense of morals has been driven by the very religions they curse...
Reply to this comment
by whateves April 9, 2008 10:54 AM PDT
I 3 Jesus freaks!
Reply to this comment
by mcharlton April 9, 2008 11:03 AM PDT
This whole thing is sickening. This is no cultural debate. I don''t care what religion you belong to. There''s no excuse for a 12-year-old to be forced to a sexual relationship with a 40 year old. We call these men pedophiles. They''re criminals that should be arrested, taken to jail, and their kids should be taken from them and put in a safe place; far away. I''m glad Texas had the backbone put a stop to this.

These men do a great job serving themselves. Women have to remain faithful, but the guys can go lusting after any young girl he wants to. If he finds another one he can mate with, all he has to do is marry her and add her to his collection.

Allowing this to continue would be a terrible disservice to the brainwashed and abused girls who are trapped with these pedophiles. This was nothing short of a wife breeding criminal ring.
Reply to this comment
by down-ndirty April 9, 2008 11:04 AM PDT
Fact is that with a few distinct exceptions - religion has done FAR more to mitigate the innate savage nature of man than it has exacerbated it... Atheists are too egocentric & frankly stupid to understand that their OWN sense of morals has been driven by the very religions they curse...
Posted by dogsoul at 10:32 AM : Apr 09, 2008
------------------------

Fact: 75% of the top (highest crime rate) 25 cities for violent crime are in Republican (religious) states.

Fact: 68% of the bottom (lowest crime rate) 25 cities for violent crime in in Democratic (atheist??? HA HA HA) states.

Fact: 85% of highly intelligent people are atheists.

Fact: 87% of low intelligence people are very religious.

Fact: Politics has killed thousands, but religion has killed millions.

Fact: When one person is deluded it''s called insanity; when a group of people are deluded it''s called religion.
Reply to this comment
by bkylws April 9, 2008 11:05 AM PDT
God is not the problem. Religious theology is created by man, who is an imperfect being. God is a God of love, NOT torture or abuse. He gave us free will to think for ourselves and hopefully choose right from wrong.
Reply to this comment
by azcagirl April 9, 2008 11:05 AM PDT
I hope all the best for those kids and the women involved. I hope they can go on leading happy lives after all is said and done.
Reply to this comment
by bkylws April 9, 2008 11:08 AM PDT
Fact: Politics has killed thousands, but religion has killed millions. -- Posted by down-ndirty

What publication did you get your facts from - "Athiest Monthly"?
Reply to this comment
by cpaide April 9, 2008 11:14 AM PDT
"a series of secret calls that triggered an investigation of the polygamist sect here."

all of this is made up bush-*** designed to entertain and divert the ignorant masses from important issues--like the "war" in the middle east and the "war" on terrorism.

happy april 15--bend over and pay bush and his cronies.
Reply to this comment
by dorlockt April 9, 2008 11:21 AM PDT
Fact is that with a few distinct exceptions - religion has done FAR more to mitigate the innate savage nature of man than it has exacerbated it... Atheists are too egocentric & frankly stupid to understand that their OWN sense of morals has been driven by the very religions they curse...

Posted by dogsoul at 10:32 AM : Apr 09, 2008

I know... I always love hearing an atheist talk about that their morals have no root in religion at all, but rather it''s free choice that drives them to make morally correct decisions. It''s like the teenager that thinks they are the first one to ever listen to The Doors. So original...
Reply to this comment
by dorlockt April 9, 2008 11:24 AM PDT
Fact: 75% of the top (highest crime rate) 25 cities for violent crime are in Republican (religious) states.

Fact: 68% of the bottom (lowest crime rate) 25 cities for violent crime in in Democratic (atheist??? HA HA HA) states.

Fact: 85% of highly intelligent people are atheists.

Fact: 87% of low intelligence people are very religious.

Fact: Politics has killed thousands, but religion has killed millions.

Fact: When one person is deluded it''''s called insanity; when a group of people are deluded it''''s called religion.

Posted by down-ndirty at 11:04 AM : Apr 09, 2008

Directly from the DailyKOS website....thanks for this.
Reply to this comment
by bkylws April 9, 2008 11:28 AM PDT
"Daily KOS - Daily weblog with political analysis on US current events from a liberal perspective." Also taken directly from Daily KOS.

Liberal perspective? Sounds like just another publication to inspire conspiracy theories.
Reply to this comment
by edward1975-2009 April 9, 2008 11:31 AM PDT
Government has allowed this practice to go on since the 1800''s, and did nothing to stop it. Had the teenager inside not called authorities, they never would have gone in. It''s the constant turning the blind eye practice that leads to corruption of the law.
Reply to this comment
by edward1975-2009 April 9, 2008 11:38 AM PDT
Bleem3: Try reading a book on occasion, the practice of polygamy was banned in the LDS in 1859. Speaking from ignorance only betrays a weak mind.
Reply to this comment
by edward1975-2009 April 9, 2008 11:38 AM PDT
Bleem3: The LDS banned polygamy in 1859, try reading a book. Ignorance is no place to speak from.
Reply to this comment
by kwynn21 April 9, 2008 11:43 AM PDT
disgusting....just disgusting.
Reply to this comment
by mjm117 April 9, 2008 11:48 AM PDT
Posted by Trueprogress at 11:30 AM : Apr 09, 2008


First off, do you ever start a post differently?

Second, do you ned to post something numerous times?

And finally, SHUT UP.

Although I do agree the people in this church should be locked up
Reply to this comment
by edward1975-2009 April 9, 2008 11:53 AM PDT
Bleem3: Your ignorance only supercedes your feeble mind. Try reading something not published by Marvel.
Reply to this comment
by minnick8-2009 April 9, 2008 12:00 PM PDT
While the state of Texas now has custody of 416 children, I do sinceely hope that they are prepared to assist those young women, the children and their babies for the long-run. The girls need counseling and education; it is going to take years to prepare them to survive on the outside of the culture to which they have been brainwashed.

I despise the polygamists. Where I live, there are many who are in close proximity geographically and I have had relatives involved in that culture. Polygamy will continue. If I could change anything about their practice, I would beg them to at least let their daughters grow up unmolested until the legal age of consent and allow them to seek education during those years.
Reply to this comment
by newsjunky5 April 9, 2008 12:02 PM PDT
The mormons don''t know about making a Faraday cage out of brass mesh. Or perhaps it was not yet installed in their compound still under construction. It could have prevented this whole mess by shielding the girl from cellphone signals. That''s where Creationism and Intelligent Design fail the zealots, and Science could serve them.
Reply to this comment
by minnick8-2009 April 9, 2008 12:03 PM PDT
Bleem

I assure you that I, in no way "succumb," to any man on earth. If God had not wanted me to use my brain, he would have given me a lobotomy.
Reply to this comment
by minnick8-2009 April 9, 2008 12:12 PM PDT
I''m sure it is all George Bush''s fault.
Reply to this comment
by edward1975-2009 April 9, 2008 12:12 PM PDT
mediabrat60: Having study religion for the better part of 15 yrs. now, you are wrong. Though all organized religion is terribly flawed, there is no Christian religion that require anyone to relinquish there free will. And to state to the contrary is a falicy.
Reply to this comment
by mahdeealoo April 9, 2008 12:27 PM PDT
Mind control by ANYONE is a crime. These people need to be punished to the max for what they have done to ruin the lives of the innocents. The abuses and atrocities suffered by these young ones needs to end permanently. Tear down the buildings, let the females free after unprogramming them and jail the men forever. Like any other rapist gets jailed for life.
Reply to this comment
by sistatee-2009 April 9, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
There probably was deviant stuff going on inside the place, but the phone call was phony. The government staged it for an excuse to raid the facility.
Reply to this comment
by squidly8 April 9, 2008 12:45 PM PDT
Bleem3, you are probably one of the most unintelligent people that I have ever seen post here.

trueprogress, dont you think you are stereotyping all men? That they are unable to follow the law simply because they are men? You advocate locking men up without any evidence as to their individual contribution to whatever went on here? I hope you teach at a small college because it is scary to think what kind of closed minded individuals your program puts out. Having a whole bunch of people thinking like you do isnt good for society. Judge someone for the content of their character as opposed to what does or does not hang between their legs.
Reply to this comment
by bdrlnt4rl April 9, 2008 12:51 PM PDT
the lds do not even look at them as part of what they believe. the real lds church encourage knowledge, because with knowledge you can tell the difference between what mediabrat60 says and the truth.

these people are not mormon or lds.
Reply to this comment
by honestabe8 April 9, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
Mind control by ANYONE is a crime. Posted by actornaught at 12:14 PM : Apr 09, 2008

Could you be any more vague? Lots of organizations participate in "mind control", not the least of them are advertising agencies, churches of all stripes, military, etc.
Reply to this comment
by squidly8 April 9, 2008 12:53 PM PDT
down-ndirty, maybe you could inform us what the religion of interest was for the collective tens to hundreds of millions killed by Hitler, Stalin, Tojo, Mao and Pol Pot?

I really am interested and I am sure that others here would be too. Oh, and links to on-biased sources is appreciated. A clue here, the Daily Kos is biased.
Reply to this comment
by michellem99-2009 April 9, 2008 1:11 PM PDT
What we have is a broken system in the name right to worship as we see fit..not when they pull this..lsd,flsd,rlds..They are the same in keep the female in the home ,baby after baby,that man treats her as a door mat..his slave..There an ugly side of the main cult lds..as an ex member I saw that side and with the help of friend we both out out. He met me and could not believe it..they had me so brain washed..the men control every part of a female''s life..I had callings..They belittled me..they told me to READ their books but yet they never helpped me get them in the format I needed.*.Sister M do leave that white cane home..* Talking books/lagre print. Sure the main line lds was told one spouse by the govt in the 1800s by Pres Wilson..had to..they were sued so the blacks have the same righrs and the white brothers and sisters in that in lds..They did not before 79.
Reply to this comment
by pensacola88 April 9, 2008 1:22 PM PDT
It gratifies me to read that this matter has been pursued in a civil way. The "First" time to achieve any challenge often proves the most difficult, and no one wants to see another "Waco" happen again, where the occupants fired on teh ATF and later set their complex afire.

Texas still has much work to do to actively hunt and pursue criminals who hide under the disguise of religion.

The perverts and most innovative criminals are flocking to Texas, because Texas does not have a full time State Legislature in session to react or proact to the needs of her residents. County District Attourneys and County Commissioners of large populous counties are exhibiting far more power to resolve issues that should be done by the state. Criminals are taking advantage of the leadership vaccumm. Residents are stubborn to accept changes, and then wonder why the worst masterminds of child and *** abuse are building up dens for their perverse behavior right in their backyard.

The IRS will award 503C Non-Profit status to anyone filing as a religious entity. They don''t check the criminal background or history of the entity. The paperwork is legnthy, but the rejection rate is low.

The US Attorney General has broad powers to police this type of crime, but political unpopularity with the GOP is always a risk.
Reply to this comment
by bdrlnt4rl April 9, 2008 1:26 PM PDT
MichelleM99

i am very sorry, but your information is very incorrect. the real lds respect their women and children to the full extend. they do not encourage baby after baby, that is up to the mother and father, not church.

the real lds encourage knowledge, not staying at home having babies.

being ex lds i can see that you have issues, they usually do. any one that is ex any religion will say false things about them.

what a wonderful foster family you must have had to have wanted to adopt a 15. you should look them up and tell them thank for at least trying to give you a loving family.
Reply to this comment
by abner212 April 9, 2008 1:42 PM PDT
Put aside the mind control issue and the male bashing. Lets be honest, this compound isn%u2019t the only place in our society that both of these issues exist. The fact of the matter is FLDS, and every deceptive sect thereof, is simply a group of filthy pedophile driven men. Who, under the guise of religion, are perpetrating acts of sexual abuse on intentionally uninformed young girls. It%u2019s a glorified *** mill.
Reply to this comment
by bdrlnt4rl April 9, 2008 2:03 PM PDT
abner212

you are right. the catholics kept the people uneducated in the early early days because if they had knowledge, then the church would unfold. when the people started to learn is when people started to break away.

this group has done the same thing. kept the children and women uneducated so they do not know any different.

i like to be with church groups who encourage high education, therefore most of my friends are members of the real lds church because of they are highly educated people.

plus they are very accepting to my beliefs and non judgemental of me and my family.
Reply to this comment
by quetzal0666 April 9, 2008 2:32 PM PDT
SinginRick is in there im sure of it!!!!!
Reply to this comment
by voltaire333 April 9, 2008 2:53 PM PDT
Well, I guess since the Bible condones the rape of virgins, there''s really nothing we can do about this. Numbers 31:7-18 NLT God bless religious freedom!
Reply to this comment
by random_radar April 9, 2008 2:58 PM PDT
What if a teenage girl on the next block called about abuse and the government rounded up all the women and children in your neighborhood and confined them in a holding camp? Wouldn''t you think that is extreme?

Why didn''t they execute a search warrant for the girl who claimed abuse instead of interning hundreds of women and children? The big laugh is that they can''t find the girl. They have everything but the girl.

I agree that it is good that the government agents didn''t kill all the women and children like they did at Waco. But still, how come they couldn''t investigate the actual abuse complaint instead of doing a dragnet of every woman and child they could grab?

The government seems more interested in creating a big PR event than actually helping a young girl who may be abused. This ham-fisted approach is going to do more harm than good. I bet that many girls in abusive situations are going to think twice about seeking help from the government due to this pathetic fiasco of government "services."
Reply to this comment
by voltaire333 April 9, 2008 3:04 PM PDT
This ham-fisted approach is going to do more harm than good. I bet that many girls in abusive situations are going to think twice about seeking help from the government due to this pathetic fiasco of government "services."
Posted by random_radar at 02:58 PM : Apr 09, 2008

Well, we have to do something about organized crime masquerading as religion. True, victims will always be concerned about reprisals for reporting their crimes, but that doesn''t mean we let the criminals get away with it!
Reply to this comment
by random_radar April 9, 2008 3:10 PM PDT
voltaire333,

You have a point, but I guess I am even more concerned about organized crime masquerading as government. This is just one more illustration of how our "government" reeks of authoritarianism.

I made a comment yesterday that this reminded me of how the women and children were separated from the men when they were "processed" in Auschwitz. Some people recoil at such comparisons, but blind nationalism was the stock in trade of the Nazis that allowed the Holocaust.

I don''t like Jeffs FLDS psuedo religion, and I think the abuse complaint needs to be investigated. But I am concerned about the government motives and methods because they don''t strike me as appropriate in this and other cases.
Reply to this comment
by anonbene April 9, 2008 3:17 PM PDT
I''ll bet there was no call from some girl. Just spiteful neighbors.
Reply to this comment
by down-ndirty April 9, 2008 3:30 PM PDT
(1) God is not the problem. (2) Religious theology is created by man, who is an imperfect being. (3) God is a God of love, NOT torture or abuse. (4) He gave us free will to think for ourselves and hopefully choose right from wrong.
Posted by bkylws at 11:05 AM : Apr 09, 2008
--------------------

(1) Maybe
(2) See (4)
(3) We don''t know that for sure since there is NO verifiable evidence that anyone has ever seen, heard, touched or smelled God. However, the God of the Old Testament is indeed a very viscious and vindictive God.
(4) A free will?? Isn''t God omniscient and omnipotent? If she were a loving God then certainly she would use her power to protect innocent children.

Doncha think?
Reply to this comment
by naucoming4u April 9, 2008 3:31 PM PDT
When should the freedom of "freedom of religion" stop?

When it harms or imprisons (physically or mentally), some, (if not all), of the people who belong to it.
Reply to this comment
by down-ndirty April 9, 2008 3:33 PM PDT
What publication did you get your facts from - "Athiest Monthly"?
Posted by bkylws at 11:08 AM : Apr 09, 2008
------------------------

The bible. The bible is excellent literature with great symbology; but it''s not something that should be taken literally.

Reply to this comment
by down-ndirty April 9, 2008 3:36 PM PDT
Bleem3: Try reading a book on occasion, the practice of polygamy was banned in the LDS in 1859. Speaking from ignorance only betrays a weak mind.
Posted by Edward1975 at 11:38 AM : Apr 09, 2008
----------------------

Actually it was 1890. And they (the Mormons) only banned it because they wanted statehood.
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