Experts Doubt Tweens Would Attack Teacher

Psychologists Say Third-Graders Were Unlikely To Follow Through With Plot To Stab Teacher

(CBS/AP)  Allegations that third-graders hatched an elaborate plot to knock out, handcuff and stab their teacher were met with shock by neighbors and with doubt by psychiatry experts who said it is unlikely that children that young seriously intended to hurt anyone.

Police say the plot at Center Elementary School began because the children, ages 8 to 10, were apparently angry after the teacher disciplined one of the students for standing on a chair.

All of the accused children have learning disabilities, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann.

Students brought a crystal paperweight, a steak knife with a broken handle, steel handcuffs and other items as part of last week's plot, police said Tuesday. They said nine students were involved, but prosecutors are seeking juvenile charges against only three of them.

That morning before school, another student saw two of the plotters passing the knife and was threatened with it, reports Strassmann. Police are looking into whether still another child was menaced at knifepoint earlier in the week.

Experts said children that age are certainly imaginative and capable of creating elaborate games. But Dr. Louis Kraus, a child psychiatry expert at Rush University Medical Center in Chicago, said he doubts they would have actually attacked.

"The reality is it is highly unlikely they would have been successful at this," Kraus said. "Even if it had begun, it's unclear whether they actually would have followed through with it."

Most premeditated acts of student violence in schools usually don't occur until high school, Kraus said. Younger children have been known to bring knives or other weapons to school, experts said, but often it's more a matter of showing off or acting tough than part of a deliberate assault attempt.

However, one psychologist says the crimes are not age-appropriate at all and a cause for more concern.

"It's the elaborateness that really concerns me," psychologist Dr. Lisa Boesky told CBS News' The Early Show. Boesky added that, "even if they couldn't carry this out, who's to say they wouldn't bring rat poison the next time and put in it the teacher's coffee or bring your father's gun to school."

Police said the plot had been organized enough that some students were assigned specific roles such as covering classroom windows and cleaning up any mess.

Most children under the age of 12 don't generally experience the kind of long-standing anger necessary for a premeditated crime, said Dan Mears, an associate professor at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice.

"Kids tend to be more spontaneous," Mears said. "If they're angry, they act on it right then."

The district attorney is seeking juvenile charges of conspiracy to commit aggravated assault against an 8-year-old boy and two girls, ages 9 and 10. The girls are also charged with bringing weapons to school.

News of the alleged plot spread quickly through this small south Georgia city on the northern edge of the Okefenokee Swamp, where residents are preparing for their annual SwampFest celebration this weekend.

"They were so young, I just couldn't believe it," said Euleathia Harris, 50, who lives in a public housing complex near the school. "I wouldn't think anything like that would happen in little ol' Waycross. I guess if it can happen in the big cities, it can happen here."

Police Chief Tony Tanner said the plot unraveled when a student reported to school officials Friday that a classmate had a knife in her backpack.

School officials say they punished all nine students, and some received long-term suspension, but they would not be more specific. Under school system rules, children who bring weapons to school may also face expulsion.

Defense attorney Michael Bryant told The Early Show that it is highly unlikely that the suspected kids will end up in the juvenile system, saying the students are too young.

"They're going to have some intensive counseling along with the parents to find out what was the cause of this," he predicts. "Were they watching too many Scooby-Doo cartoons or is it nor nefarious than that?"

[Gary Kempf]

If I remember right, several years ago. A seven and eight year old murdered a three year old, for fun.

Difference being an adult, Experts in their own mind only!!!! They have no more idea what these kids are capable of......

[dronemonk]

Be afraid! We need detention camps for children! It''s the only way to be sure of our sacred safety!

[rchanning12]

Since when did psychologists become experts at predicting the future?!?! These so called experts are complete morons. If these juvenile delinquents had enough will and desire to collect the items needed to commit a crime, then they already crossed the line. Enough said. The evidence speaks for itself. If grown adults had done the same, I can assure you that they would be locked up already.

[truth832-2009]

rchanning12

The complete moron is you!

[smiley676]

The evidence speaks for itself. If grown adults had done the same, I can assure you that they would be locked up already.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by rchanning12

They are NOT ADULTS. That is the point. They DO NOT think the same way adults think. These aren''t even teenagers, these are children.

Obviously "locking them up" is not going to help. They need to be taught that what they did was wrong, but they are still just children. It is doubtful that they even understand how terrible their act was. That is something that needs to be taught to them. Counseling is required and keeping them in some sort of educational program.

[stillhealing]

Please stop referring to the psychologists and profilers as experts. Yes they have degrees and experience, but we are all novices here. We are walking in uncharted territory. The details of this incident as well as the lockdown at Millersville University illustrate the alarming trend of school violence as it continues to escalate in both the range of methods and the number of occurences.What began in the 90''s as incidents isolated and beyond our comprehension in Paducah and Littleton are now almost accepted. The ages of school shooters span from preteens to thirties, no more a specific killing season, settings from rural, urban, rich, poor, worldwide, and the first female shooter. The shootings have transcended all measurable boundaries - age, culture, economics, education, gender, language, location, religions to the point there are too many factors to even begin to profile a shooter. Each of the shootings is not an isolated, disconnected event. Please do not say it was highly unlikely that these young children would have carried thru. We just do not know. April 24, 2003 was the day my life took an unplanned turn as a student brought several guns to school. Killing the principal and himself. I am thankful he stopped, I am finally thankful I have survived.I am still healing and forgiving even now five years later. We just do not know what our children are capable of. It is time to recognize we have a crisis on our hands and make changes.

[smiley676]

psychologists and profilers are certainly experts

[ranger1948]

The weirdest people i have met were the so called experts. I don''t care if they are just children. They planned this crime in detail, brought verything to school. I think this clearly shows intent to carry out the crime. I think we have another Charles Manson clan developing here.

[jahmonhil]

See what happens when you take God out of any equation!!!!

[truth832-2009]

The weirdest people i have met were the so called experts. ranger1948

Perhaps more education is needed before you can recognize the benefit that experts can provide; meanwhile, silent ignorance is superior to showing it throug boasting. Shut the hell up you fool!

[rchanning12]

For those of you who say that they are just children, what would it take for you to be convinced that there was a potential for danger? Did someone have to be harmed before authorities stepped in? We were all children once. That didn''t mean that we collaborated, planned, and collected items to harm others. As for the article referring to psychologists as experts, they might be educated professionals when it comes to the human mind and behavior. That doesn''t mean that they can predict whether or not the crime would have been committed.

[truth832-2009]

"As for the article referring to psychologists as experts, they might be educated professionals when it comes to the human mind and behavior. That doesn''''t mean that they can predict whether or not the crime would have been committed." rchanning12

These are indeed children. Moreover, I would much rather rely on educated professionals in assessing the situation than on your opinion. Your lock ''em up attitude in case we can''t predict the future of what children might do is, unfortunately, harmful in so many ways. Please, don''t be so afraid!

[bks59]

no mention of parents or home life!

[dgal878]

Yeah well my bet is the experts would have bet against these kids ever loading up their weapons and taking them to school in the first place so I don''t buy it. We''ve seen what evil kids can do. Denial will not help anyone fix anything.

[Gary Kempf]

DaVicar2

Excellant!!!!!

[michellem99-2009]

please use the term pre teens not the dumb T teens. Children are minors. Pre teens 10,11,12. Teens 13 thru 19. They ARE children. They can''t think as an adult as they are children. I was called a pre teen then a teen at 13. An adult at 21. Even tho the law said 18. I was a foster child from 5 to 21. The problem is weak parents. They let their very young children boss Mum and Mum does nothing. I have seen it time and time. PARENTS WERE RAISED THAT WAY AS THEY ARE NOW RAISING THEIR CHILDREN MAYBE FAR WORSE. I was no angel. Dad gave me rules and I learnt to read his voice tones..I am and was legally blinded at birth. The family broke up when I was 5 or 6 went into bad foster homes. That was when my world fell apart. The state moved me from home to home. Denied a proper education. 1 am 53. We had 3 networks CBS,NBC and ABC when I was growing up. Yes there was a TY in the homes. We were not allowed it . There were programming she bar us to watch. We did not whine as no meant no. I lived in homes where guns were not allowed. Gunsmoke and Have Gun Will Travel,westerns barred. The TV was not the centre nor was guns..We were not given toy guns. I was not raised in the church. That was barred in the homes.

[michellem99-2009]

Part 2. We played out doors. This was pre computer. We did not get every thing we wanted. I am aware it is a digital world. People are into their own world. I remember the games they had every where yer pump quarters in them to play. I stopped going to places that thad them..It was awful..I told my friend can''t we eat in peace. Now it is yakking on the cell. In my day I never ever dreamed of this day and all the out of control greedy people who was raised on ME MYSELF AND I,DO YER OWN THING line of thinking. Adults are the one that buy the games the young play on computer. I have some on computer cards,board games and Fate I play against computer. Most are not fit for the young. TV is not a baby/child sitter.

[michellem99-2009]

If that is all those children saw in the home adults fighting hitting sure they will and do copy the adults they know no better. Don''t do as I do but do as I say line..Dad never used that line on me..Foster mothers did..It was mixed message that I could not understand I am not dumb the sighted world..

[toolmangler-2009]

"School officials say they punished all nine students, and some received long-term suspension, but they would not be more specific. Under school system rules, children who bring weapons to school may also face expulsion."



This is totally stupid, if you have a child that had done anything like this, the last thing you want to do is let them go unsupervised, Get them back in school and teach them properly this time.. (and keep your eyes open)

[dennishart4]

This is chilling. Whats wrong with these kids? www.theoandavirus.com

[michellem99-2009]

Tool.The parents need to be taught how to raise them properly. Some are worse than their kids. They need to check their child''s person, clothes, daypack/book bag. Tool, my foster mothers did that to me..I am 53. Yep. The school told her what was/was not allowed..Guns were not in the home there not allowed at school. Yer ears and eyes.

[slim1h2o]

Posted by ToolMangler at 08:46 PM : Apr 03, 2008

I agree!! And also,,they most likely will fall behind in their studies,, and in general society as well.

[swwils]

Experts doubt this,what are they experts in?This has happened to them I guess.Remember the little boys in Ky. that shot up the class,and killed the teacher.They weren''t very old either but killed,and hurt a lot of people.

[kashbaugh]

The experts certainly don''t include teachers. I invite these experts into a public school to get a dose of reality.

[kashbaugh]

The experts certainly don''t include teachers. I invite these experts into a public school to get a dose of reality. Not only can teachers be attacked by primary grade students, if the teacher tries to stop the attack, the parents of the attacker will sue.

[cantshutup]

they''re probably harry potter fanatics...