Prehistoric Bones Found In Wis. Cave

Animal Vertebrae Between Nearly 6,000 Years Old May Be Some Of The Oldest Ever Found

(CBS/AP)  Excavators have unearthed what are believed to be some of the oldest prehistoric bones discovered in a cave in Wisconsin, according to a University of Wisconsin-Green Bay professor.

The bones have been dated to between 5,600 and 5,800 years old, said Dr. John Luczaj, an earth science professor. They were discovered in New Hope Cave at Cherney Maribel Caves County Park in January and February.

The bones were dated using collagen extracted from the bones, Luczaj said, according to the Manitowoc Herald Times Reporter.

"We believe there are older bones yet to be discovered further into the cave from data collected during the exploratory excavations done during the 1990s," J.D. Skattebo, chairman and founder of the Friends of Maribel Caves, wrote in an e-mail.

Scientists have yet to identify the animal the two vertebrae came from, but it could have been a small mammal "bigger than a bat but smaller than a woodchuck," Luczaj said.

The vertebrae each were less than a centimeter in length.

Skattebo and other excavators discovered the bones beneath flow or float stone, which is created by calcium carbonate flowing into the cave from spring melt water, he said.

The cave's sediment is at least as old as the bones and probably similar in age to that in other caves in Northeastern Wisconsin, Luczaj said. The fossils could help researchers understand what happened in the entire cave system, he said.

"We can infer things about climate if we understand how old the deposits are and what was the environment that these organisms lived in," he said.

Excavators will resume work on the cave north of Manitowoc either in May or June, depending on weather conditions, Skattebo said.

"Our goal is to learn and understand why the caves are still there, how did they fill, and when and why," said Skattebo. "We are also studying the groundwater interaction with the water table."

Luczaj said he is planning to submit an application for another grant to radiocarbon date a shoulder blade bone that was discovered elsewhere in the park, according to the Herald Times Reporter.

liberalbias1: Dinosaurs have been extinct for ~65 million years, so of course their fossils are millions of years old. Floral and faunal remains found in association with human remains - in this hemisphere anyway - are all under 15,000 years old (so far). There are plenty of fossilized mammal remains in the rest of the world that are millions of years old. Some that come to mind are:
Sahelanthropus tchadensis
Ardipithecus ramidus
Australopithecus anamensis
Australopithecus afarensis
Kenyanthropus platyops
Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus garhi
Australopithecus aethiopicus
Australopithecus robustus

Those are just some of the hominids that have been discovered so far. There are plenty of others.

Atheists aren''t out to "get" christians. They do oppose the oppressive attitudes that many christians display, however. I for one have a lot of trouble with the genocide they commited in North America in the 16th-19th centuries in the name of christianity. They slaughtered millions.

TheGateway1: these are actual bones, not fossilized bone.

[actornaught]

I only read the parts that fit my agenda....
Posted by liberalbias1 at 03:47 PM : Apr 03, 2008

So what finally got your ''singinrick'' account banned?

[actornaught]

if you read this thread....
Posted by liberalbias1 at 02:37 PM : Apr 03, 2008

There ya go, all i saw were long anti-evolution obsessed s''ick posts in a science article. If you were baited by somebody else, learn something from it...

[infidel_us]

Has anyone seen Sen Byrd lately? Just asking. :)

[actornaught]

Why are you not scorning the anti-Creationists?...
Posted by liberalbias1 at 02:17 PM : Apr 03, 2008

This is a science article, not a religion article.

btw, like cojnelso, i''m Christian. Faith is faith, it isn''t belaboring off-topic discussions.

[actornaught]

Pretty funny seeing the anti-evolution obsessed post on another article that has nothing to do with evolution..

[termtex01]

"Excavators have unearthed what are believed to be some of the oldest prehistoric bones discovered...The bones have been dated to between 5,600 and 5,800 years old..."

Does anyone else see the glaring mistake in this article? Where the heck are the CBS science advisors, on coffee break?

This story makes you think these are the oldest bones discovered. They are off by hundreds of millions of years. They need to make it clear they mean the oldest bones in that cave. Not the oldest prehistoric bones.

[cojnelso]

IMHO there are many Christians that question the scientific findings. I''m deeply Christian myself, but really don''t see a conflict with science and religion. We''re told that "God works in mysterious ways"...why can''t God''s hand work through evolutionary means? I think these findings are exciting, we''ll get to learn more about how God created our race and our world.
There really shouldn''t be a conflict with Christianity and Science, like I said...God works in mysterious ways, ways that we don''t fully understand but should learn to accept with faith.
That''s my two bits.

[newsterl]

The greatest flaw in MOST Christians (or any other faith for that matter) is that they are hostage to a demand for unequivocal faith/belief, which, in effect prohibits questions about the bible, et al, or actually thinking for themselves.

Posted by jn122736"

Thats because in the old days questioning the church, policies or the book of death could being you torture, jail or even DEATH as a heretic, or a witch.
The church controlled peopled big time back then, they lost all that power and are fading away slowly, but the dumb sheeple still have the attachment to this relic.

atheism2.freeforums.org/

[rushlimpdrug]

Christians know that this story is a lie.
How?
How could there have been caves in Wisconsin THOUSANDS of years ago?
Wisconsin was not a state back then.
So everyone calm down.
The story is totally bogus.

[wonderyman-2009]

This must be a belated April 1st. article.

[generey]

Gawwd I hope it''s not my ex-muther in law.

[fibonacci_]

"Its almost they are afraid of what scientists COULD find."

- Definately, and the second scientist found bones older than 8000 years, they would say that the dating methods were flawed. Must be tough work having to constantly come up with ways to defend something where evidence keeps coming up suggesting it is not true. Good luck, little Christians!

[grammawhamma]

I believe God created evolution.

[jn122736]

I think its funny how religious people dont like or appreciate these bones. Its almost they are afraid of what scientists COULD find. whether its nothing or the discovery of what people did or were like "back in the day." Its almost like they are convinced implacably that whatever the church tells them is nonnegotiable and 100% right all the time. Yet they are the ones that rely on science to help cure their ailment(s).

Much like my college biology teacher once said (who is a religious man), "There are things we don''''t know about the bible and religion and there are things we don''''t know about science. How far each one really goes to, is a mystery."
Posted by marcosis78 at 03:51 PM : Apr 02, 2008
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

marcosis78; it would be funny if it were not so tragically sad.

The greatest flaw in MOST Christians (or any other faith for that matter) is that they are hostage to a demand for unequivocal faith/belief, which, in effect prohibits questions about the bible, et al, or actually thinking for themselves.

Posters on this site have, many times, accused others of not being a true Christian because they have agreed that the bible contains many contradictory and logically impossible statements/verses.

[marcosis78]

I think its funny how religious people dont like or appreciate these bones. Its almost they are afraid of what scientists COULD find. whether its nothing or the discovery of what people did or were like "back in the day." Its almost like they are convinced implacably that whatever the church tells them is nonnegotiable and 100% right all the time. Yet they are the ones that rely on science to help cure their ailment(s).

Much like my college biology teacher once said (who is a religious man), "There are things we don''t know about the bible and religion and there are things we don''t know about science. How far each one really goes to, is a mystery."

[jn122736]

I find the continued research and discoveries about the prehistoric past to be very interesting.

Even the bones of small creatures hold a lot of answers to earth life and evolution.

Thanks CBS, for articles like this.

[fibonacci_]

Oh sorry, I am 2000 years off ;) God you guys are retards.

[consciousnes]

Not old enough, read your bible athiest