Ex-Terror Detainee Says U.S. Tortured Him

Tells 60 Minutes He Was Held Underwater, Shocked And Suspended From the Ceiling

(CBS)  At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror. He was from Germany, traveling in Pakistan, and was picked up three months after 9/11. But there seemed to be ample evidence that Kurnaz was an innocent man with no connection to terrorism. The FBI thought so, U.S. intelligence thought so, and German intelligence agreed. But once he was picked up, Kurnaz found himself in a prison system that required no evidence and answered to no one.

The story Kurnaz told 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley is a rare look inside that clandestine system of justice, where the government's own secret files reveal that an innocent man lost his liberty, his dignity, his identity, and ultimately five years of his life.

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60 Minutes found Murat Kurnaz in Bremen, Germany, where he was born and raised. His parents emigrated there from Turkey. His father works in the Mercedes factory. Kurnaz wasn’t particularly religious growing up, but in 2001 he was marrying a Turkish girl who was. And he decided to learn more about Islam.

"I didn't know how to pray. I didn't know anything," Kurnaz says. "So I had to study more about Islam so I could go to the mosque and pray."

In Bremen, he met Islamic missionaries who urged him to go to Pakistan for study. As he was planning the trip, 9/11 happened. He told 60 Minutes he was horrified by the attacks, and had never heard of al Qaeda. He decided to go ahead with his trip anyway.

"You went to Pakistan several weeks after 9/11," Pelley remarks. "Did you begin to think that that wasn't a great idea?"

"Today, I know it wasn't a great idea," Kurnaz says.

Kurnaz told 60 Minutes his story using the English that he learned from his American guards. If he seems a little distant, reserved, you'll understand why as his story unfolds. It begins in 2001, when he was at the end of that trip to Pakistan. He was headed to the airport to fly home to Germany when his bus was stopped at a routine checkpoint.

"They stopped the bus and because of my color, I’m much more different than Pakistani guys," says Kurnaz, who is lighter-skinned. "He looked into the bus and he knocked on my window."

"He" was a Pakistani cop who pulled Kurnaz off the bus. The reason Kurnaz was singled out may always be a mystery. But at the time, the U.S. was paying bounties for suspicious foreigners. Kurnaz, who'd been rambling across Pakistan with Islamic pilgrims, seemed to fit the bill. Kurnaz says that he was told that U.S. intelligence paid $3,000 for him. He ended up bound and shackled on an American military plane.

"I was sure soon as they would find out I'm not a terrorist, they will apologize for it and let me go back home," he says.

But the plane flew him out of Pakistan and to a U.S. base in Kandahar, Afghanistan, where he was mixed with prisoners fresh off the battlefield. His new identity was "number 53." He was kept in an outdoor pen, in sub-freezing weather and interrogated daily.

"They asked me, 'Where is Osama bin Laden,' and if I am from al Qaeda or from Taliban. Questions like that. I told them, 'I don't know where is Osama bin Laden, I never saw him and I don't know anything about al Qaeda. I don't know what it is.' And I spent all my time in Pakistan," he says.

Asked what happened next, Kurnaz says, "I told them just they can call Germany to ask who I am and they can ask anybody in Germany who I am."

Back in Germany, Bremen police were investigating, and what they were hearing made matters worse: Kurnaz's worried mother told them her son had recently become more religious, had grown a beard and was attending a new mosque; schoolmates said that Kurnaz might have been headed to Afghanistan.

"It was just guessing, just fear, no more. But the fear turns into a fact," says attorney Bernhard Docke, who was hired by Kurnaz’s mother.

He says there was no reason to suspect Kurnaz knew anything about al Qaeda. But this was weeks after 9/11 and some of the hijackers had been living in Hamburg. "And so close after 9/11, and close after Germany realized that 9/11 started with the Hamburg cell in Germany, everybody in the secret services got crazy," Docke says.

[comnsence]

And since he''s got no proof, no witnesses, no one to validate his story in any way, 60 Minutes still jumps on it. And, why? Because, it''s anti-American! And, ANY anti-American propaganda MUST be presented on 60 Minutes. What a pathetic staff. I can remember when this show used to be something more than a Communist propaganda machine. The only thing 60 Minutes does now is offer proof that maybe Joe McCarthy was right.

[loublain]

every day that goes by the shrubs justification of our Iraq policy sounds more like macbeth "I am in blood / Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more, / Returning were as tedious as go o%u2019er" It made no sense then and it does''nt now... by the way... macbeth ends in the destruction of him and his kingdom

[adamdrussell]

The fact that he was held long after there was evidence showing him innocent lends credence to his assertions of torture.

[straightupyo]

Why on earth should anyone believe him? If you believe him it''s only because of your own bias - you want to believe him because it fits into your little bash-America paradigm. This guy is full of b.s.

[tonydarbo]

No proof but the moonbats at CBS and the liberals in general eat it up like free cheese.

[specopsmike]

nothing but bad mouthing America, again. so what, you say? adamdrussel, and loublain, welcome to your theories. enjoy your video. mike http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=675aa_4207

[borysd]

No it is anti-American to use torture and it is against the Geneva Convention.....and evidence of torture is starting to pile up! Water boarding is torture!

[dcunning30]

If 60 minutes can get an interview of any of the captives the terrorists have held, then that would be a coup!

But unfortunately, I doubt this can be done since THEY ARE ALL DEAD!!!!!

CBS, and this bunch, such bias and a lack of common sense! Sheesh!

[borysd]

No it is anti-American to use torture and it is against the Geneva Convention.....and evidence of torture is starting to pile up! Water boarding is torture!

[rntrnt]

Follow the money. Get a good lawyer to create some money for you.

[nunny]

Hey, I was tortured by Al Gore because I refused to believe him about Global Warming. And Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi tortured me because I refused to vote Democrat.

PROVE ME WRONG! Just because he STATES he was tortured, doesn''t mean he was. Does it occur to anyone that if he was guilty, then he knows (because they received a handbook telling them to) that he should assert torture because of this visceral reaction?

60 Minutes used to be semi-fair trying to show both sides of an issue, but they don''t even try any more. They hate our military, don''t believe we should be the harbinger of Democracy, and will do anything to move their views forward.

Sad...

[jaltieri]

A key part of Al Quaeda training is to invent stories about torture and detention as part of their publicity strategy to discredit the west. It''s long been their MO and it is outlined in their various training materials. As easy as it would be to check this out, most in the media seems to forget to mention this.

The reason it doesn''t occur to most in the media to be skeptical about stories like this, is that the idea of the US torturing terrorist prisoners fits into their already formed stereotype. Peter Arnett lost his job for this very reason. He reported as fact an invented story about US Special Forces in Vietnam using poison gas to assassinate American defectors. Of course it wasn''t true, but in his mind it fit an existing bias.

[straightupyo]

just once, can''t the liberal media investigate and "expose" something the terrorists are doing instead of more of the same America bashing? The poster SpecOpsBob or whatever his name is has lost his mind.... More Bush Derangement Syndrome on display for everyone to see... keeping it real

[prndy5]

Poor baby. Why was he in a war zone. We gave them months to leave before we defended ourselfs. I think we were attacked if I remember right.

[chris30338]

Sorry but its true. I have buddies who were over there in 2002 and they were pretty rough with anyone they suspected of being Al-Qaeda. His description is similar to what I''ve been told. Considering that waterboarding, sensory deprivation, beatings, etc, were "approved" techniques, why is anyone surprised??? Didn''t the other German guy who was kidnapped from Macedonia and who spent a year in US custody is Afghanistan have a similar story? Sorry folks, you can wave the flag all you want, say my country is right when its wrong, but blind faith in your country is just stupid when the evidence contrary to what you think keeps piling up.

Also considering they let him go from Gitmo (remember that Rumsfeld assured everyone that these guys were all the "worst of the worst") pretty much says that he was indeed innocent.

Its a sad state of affairs that our country has come to this. You idiots who cry "UNPATRIOTIC" need to open your eyes and get a life. Remember Abu Gharib? I remember idiots like you saying the same ***. And guess what? It all turned out to be true.

[straightupyo]

To Chris30338 - just because this guy says it makes it so? Why would he be released if he could then spill the beans about what had happened to him? Why wait so long? Where is any corroboration concerning this guy? When we doubt his story, we are not calling people "unpatriotic." When people rush to embrace his story and then bash - once again - America without listening to the other side, I call them UNPATRIOTIC. Blind criticism of your own country is just as bad as blind faith... Get real dude.

[neitherone]

Remember McCarthy time? Nobody believed that innocents were jailed back then. I won''t be surprised at all if what Murat claims here is true (despite the fact that he''s promoting his book.) We Americans hold no moral superiority to other peoples around the world. And tourture had been used repeatedly in the course of history.

[straightupyo]

Further, there were no former inmates of Abu G who broke that story. It was other military personnel, people doing the right thing.

[tonic1661]

republicans you are so defensive...

This man was let go because he was innocent or maybe the judge was a co conspirator with al queda.

[maestro2911]

I get a huge kick out of all these people crying about how America tortured them while they enjoy the talk show circuit, staying in lavish hotels and pretty much living it up after their alleged torture.

Why doesn''t 60 Minutes interview Daniel Pearl? Wait, his torture ended with a beaheding. How about they interview Eugene Armstrong? Oops... his torture ended with a beheading as well. Maybe they could interview Jack Hensley! ***, the enemy beheaded him as well.

OK, I guess all they can do is interview those who were "brutally" tortured by Americans. None of those tortured by the enemy seem to still have their head.

[jaxstatealum]

Last I checked we (USA) were the ones that had our noses bloodied in Sept. 2001. For some reason the liberal, tree hugging, whinners led by Gore seem to forget that. WE ARE STILL AT WAR!! It is W''s policies and leadership that has prevented us from being attacked again.

This German sissy needs to stop whinning - and so do all the other anti Bush war haters - and move on with life. Deal with it! It matters not who will be elected in Nov - we are NOT leaving Iraq - we simply can''t!

60 minutes running this story... what do we expect from this bunch...

[kscislaw]

Does CBS hate this country so much that it will do anything to undermine our nation during a time of war? Why doesn''t CBS just re-hire Dan Rather. Why even bother with the pretense that this *** organization has anything to do with journalism and everything to do with partisan political anti-American agendas?

CBS makes me ill.

[deano812]

You''re right PRNDY5, we were attacked...

-after decades of occupying other countries
-propping up brutal dictators that suppressed freedom in their own country
-helping overthrow democratically elected leaders in other countries and replacing them with dictators that favored us

can''t imagine why anyone wanted to attack us

[iknowbest-2009]

Well, when a Democrat gets in the White House, they''ll let him stay in the Lincoln bedroom, after making a publich apology and formally surrending to Muslim fundamentalist terrorists.

[chris30338]

straightupyo, the evidense just keeps piling up. Remember when the administration told us they don''t do torture? Then Bingo! It comes out that waterboarding, sensory deprivation, stress positions, sleep deprivation were all standard operating procedures approved by the White House. Remember Extraordinary Rendition and Secret Prisons? How many times did the administration deny that? Turns out it was true. How much proof do you need? Someone need to draw you a picture???

[ltnconservat]

Journalism at its best. No evidence, no witnesses, and pure speculation. Continuing Dan Rather''s example, it is apparent CBS does not concern itself with corroborating evidence. BDS syndrome seems to reach internationally. 60 Minutes should be part of Al-Jazeera''s primetime lineup.

[rac647]

Oh brother. Nice try Herr Kurnaz. Your story just doesn''t wash. Better luck next time.

[prndy5]

Don''t worry Obama will fix all our problems. Change is the word, let''s what you will have left after paying taxes. Let me ask a question. If 90% of white people voted for Clinton. Would that be could racism? And if so,why isn''t it called that for Obama and the black community?

[chris30338]

This German sissy needs to stop whinning - and so do all the other anti Bush war haters - and move on with life.

Good suggestion. So now when one of our guys gets the same treatment, we need to heed this suggestion. In fact, lets just invite any country that captures our guys in future conflicts to treat our guys the same way. Why the heck not? If we can do it why can''t they do the same?

Bottom line: Next time our soldiers get captured and tortured, they should move on and get a life.

[kap45]

It is typical of our faithful left wing to side with a terrorist over their own country. I don''t believe his story for a second. If I was president I would have exucuted all of the detainees in Gitmo without apology. This creep should have had a bullet put directly into his face rather than getting 3 square from taxpayers.

[tonic1661]

this man was found innocent but i guess everyone is lying and the judge is really with al queda.

shame on america.

[maestro2911]

***..... self loathing America haters! Why don''t you all just get the hell out of here you hate it so much!

[chris30338]

IKnowBest, judging from your screen name, you are a master of irony.

[seaver257]

Well...what a surprise CBS had to become the Terrorist Sympathy network! Why don''t you just get all of the terrorist out of their garb...heck shave Osama''s beard...slick back his hair, put him in western clothes and have him tell the tale of how America ruined his life by bombing his house and 25 wives and how he has been living like a homeless person for years because of the evil George Bush. Heck, maybe even CBS lawyers could represent him in a lawsuit against America!! CBS there is a reason I NEVER turn your network on for ANYTHING you broadcast! This is why!!

[prndy5]

Kill them all and let
God sort it out!

[lilvinnyb]

I dont think lieberals are unpatriotic...just weak and not willing to do things necessary to keep out country "pro-actively" safe. Remember, Clinton had Obama in his sights and didnt pull the trigger because there were some other sheiks around. While liberals reach out a hand to our enemies to make friends, our enemies just want to cut them off.

[tonic1661]

maestro 2811, i love america, but i want the leaders to behave like this is america. where people have a right to a trial and are not tortured.

this man was found innocent !!!! and name calling will not change that. try speaking on an intelligent level.

[chris30338]

Posted by Maestro2911 said***..... self loathing America haters! Why don''''t you all just get the hell out of here you hate it so much!


Here''s a quote for people like yourself:
Theodore Roosevelt: To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. (1918)

Here''s another one:
Sinclair Lewis: When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.

You are the one who needs to perhaps book that flight.

[dwwhit]

chris30338,

since when did sleep deprivation become torture? can I sue my university for torture? if dunking someones head under water and keeping them awake is "shocking to the senses" (geneva verbage) then perhaps it''s time we all grew some thicker skin and manned up. as for this guy, what credibility does someone have that was arrested on suspicion of torture and held for 5 years. shouldn''t we assume, innocent or guilty, he has it out for the u.s.? we take his word as gospel but dismiss the u.s. officials. sure is fair and balanced...

[skikirk680]

60mins...can you maybe do a little research? Evidence? If he was shocked on the bottoms of his feet, would there not be marks?! Can a doctor look at his shoulders to find evidence of hanging form a ceiling for 5 days(thats complete b.s. by the way)? I really like the way all the anti-American poaters are just chomping at the bit to believe this. Who need proof if it makes Bush look bad? Right folks? Oh, and WHY was he in custody already? Is it safe to assume that this isn''t the stand-up citizen that 60 mins want to portray? Just more completely inept reporting by CBS! I wish I could cut every corner on my job and still get paid.

[skikirk680]

60mins...can you maybe do a little research? Evidence? If he was shocked on the bottoms of his feet, would there not be marks?! Can a doctor look at his shoulders to find evidence of hanging form a ceiling for 5 days(thats complete b.s. by the way)? I really like the way all the anti-American poaters are just chomping at the bit to believe this. Who need proof if it makes Bush look bad? Right folks? Oh, and WHY was he in custody already? Is it safe to assume that this isn''t the stand-up citizen that 60 mins want to portray? Just more completely inept reporting by CBS! I wish I could cut every corner on my job and still get paid.

[jaxstatealum]

Quote - Good suggestion. So now when one of our guys gets the same treatment, we need to heed this suggestion. In fact, lets just invite any country that captures our guys in future conflicts to treat our guys the same way. Why the heck not? If we can do it why can''''t they do the same?

Bottom line: Next time our soldiers get captured and tortured, they should move on and get a life.

It is the brave men and women of this country that have provided you with the right to express your opinion. You as others have your right to be wrong! War is hell - period. Bad things happen. I served this country during the first Gulf War (USMC). I''ve earned the right to my opinion because I''ve been there.

Support our troops or go take their place! America - love it or leave it!!

[wgr85]

Given that this a%^hole went to Pakistan to study Islam right after 911, I believe that he was definitely up to no good. If you just want to learn about Islam, you don''t need to go to Pakistan. I don''t believe his story, but even if it were all true, I really don''t care. I don''t care if they beat the living *** out of these types every single day. I am so sick of hearing how humane and nice we always have to be to people that are lower than swine in my opinion. Kick the *** out of them and then shoot them.

[rafterman1]

More torture apologists trying to justify barbarity. Most of you who think waterboarding and sleep depravastion are no big deal would probably not volunteer to sign up for it, would you?

America is the country that''s upposed to set the example for the world to follow. Not put ourselves in the likes of North Korea, Saudi Arabia and other two-bit dictatorships. Yeah, we despite terrorists for what they do, so let''s be just like them. Good plan.

[miketx7]

CBS is such a left-wing propagandist tool for the Democrats that I would be very suspicious of anything they print or broadcast.

They scour the world to find anyone that will swear they were wronged by by the U.S. and run with it. Never mind the extenuating circumstances or the fact that many of these characters just outright lie.

Check out newsbusters dot org to keep track of all their blatant biases, half-truths and consistant support for all things anti-American.

Long live Bernie Goldberg!... whose written many books and articles about the ongoing biases of CBS.

[iknowbest-2009]

IKnowBest, judging from your screen name, you are a master of irony.


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Posted by chris30338 at 01:23 PM : Mar 28, 2008

No, what''s ironic is that once the Demmies get in, all the lives lost fighting the scourge of the globe will be wasted - because you''ll be rushing to kiss the behinds of the people that want you dead. Libs are cowards, plain and simple. What will be ironic is that fata$$ pukes like Michael Moore will set foreign policy - and the last thing you remember when you''re sold into slavery is that IKNOWBEST and you don''t.

[wgr85]

Maybe we should treat them the same way they treat kidnapped reporters and contractors. Read some *** in front of a video tape and then get everyone to hold them down while one guy hacks off their head with a knife. Don''t try to make me feel sorry for any of these detainees. My guess is this guy is lying through his teeth, however, I do know this. He looks healthy, can''t show any scars or proof and he definitely still has his head and is alive. If he was a prisoner in any or their camps, he wouldn''t be here to tell a story.

[areyoursure]

Oh, please..... is this another case of ''investigative reporting''? One guys story - and I am sure he is telling the truth - went to study in Pakistan! Yeah right.

Maybe he is recalling his training sessions with the Taliban.

Pure B. S.

Sure, CBS, keep trying to present the US in a bad light and see what happens to your ''free speech'' once the terrorists you like to support are in power!

[chris30338]

What will be ironic is that fata$$ pukes like Michael Moore will set foreign policy - and the last thing you remember when you''''re sold into slavery is that IKNOWBEST and you don''''t.
Posted by IKnowBest at 01:39 PM : Mar 28, 2008

Yeah, maybe then they''ll fight the war where the terrorists really are......Afghanistan. Are you one of those who still believe that Saddam Hussein and Iraq had anything to do with 9/11???

Are we still going to waste lives there so that " the sacrifices of our fallen are not in vain"??? Great logic. Let''s make a half hearted attempt to fight terrorists where they really are (Afghanistan) and waste lives in Iraq because wasting more lives will somehow justify wasting the lives of those who already died in a war (Iraq)that should have never been started or fought.

Great job Bushy/Cheney/Rummy!!!

[prndy5]

Does anybody remember 60 minutes and Dan Rathr lying about Bush National Guard record. So think about that when you watch this.