Right To Bear Arms On Campus?

College Students In Utah Can Carry Guns, And Lawmakers In Nine Other States Are Considering Issue

(CBS)  In Thomas McCrory's morning routine, he gets his books, and gets his gun. He's ready for school.

McCrory's a junior at the University of Utah.

In 2006, Utah's Supreme Court explicitly allowed guns on college campuses for anyone with a concealed weapons permit, CBS News correspondent Mark Strassmann reports.

It's the only state where that's allowed.

You carry it on your hip?

"Yeah, I carry it on my side, underneath the jacket," McCrory said.

McCrory, a ski-patroler, was paralyzed in a 60-foot fall. He felt vulnerable.

Then came the massacres at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University.

He started carrying a gun.

"It's a comfort to me knowing that I would have a fighting chance if something like that would happen," he said.

Now lawmakers in nine other states are debating whether guns belong on college campuses.

Georgia's one of them.

"How many kids must die before we realize that firearms in law-abiding hands actually save lives?" asked Georgia state Rep. Tim Bearden, a gun-rights advocate.

But the University of Georgia's police chief says more guns would make it harder to spot the real threat.

"There's only going to be a split-second there," said University of Georgia police chief Jimmy Williamson. "And I could see innocent people being shot by police."

A lot about this scares critics - starting with the image of armed college kids at a Saturday night keg party. And Utah's law says nothing about marksmanship. Students carrying a gun may have no idea how to use it.

But many in Utah are eager to learn.

"There are evil people out there," said Utah senior Molly Metcalf. "I don't know, I just want to feel safe."

McCrory practices every week - a growing trend in his undergraduate business school.

"At any given day, there's at least a dozen people within a hundred yards of me that are armed," he said.

Now students in other states want to arm themselves ... with the right to return fire.

[guysdigdirt]

The predetors will go to the place where there will be the lease amount of resistance. If they know they will meet none on a campus, they will go there. If you allow the students to arm themselves, there will be less risk predetors will attack there.

[paperregiste]

"[Utah] It''s the only state where that''s allowed."

It''s a shame the lack of actual research news services with a political agenda do when they want to push that agenda on their audience.

Colorado State University and Blue Ridge Community College, in Virginia, also explicitly permit CCW holders to carry even to class.

In most other states it is only campus policy and not law that forbids students from carrying.

[usbrit-2009]

I would have to agree with your observation about CBS''''s coverage. Seems downright lazy at times. They have 4 guns stories going at once here, most slanted negatively.

Posted by dragonwagon5

Hey dragon - Just how do you slant stories about multiple murderers positively. "In another case of a perfectly good gun being used exactly what it was designed for, a (up till this point) law-abiding gun owner shot three people at a hospital."???

[gunownerdan]

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-- Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in "On Crimes and Punishment"(1764)

Self Defense
A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[bhappy2-2]

Allowing concealed carry on campuses would do two things:
1. It would allow unarmed victims to change their status to armed defenders.
2. It would give those who come onto campus to kill something to think about.

Next we need to get rid of the unarmed victim zones at malls and shopping centers.

[notblue]

USbrit, it goes sometihng like this, an armed gunman was shot and killed after opening fore on shoppers, luckily one of the people present, who had a permit to carry, stopped the gunman before more lives could be taken.

[tucano2]

It should not be an option, it should be a requirement, and the law, that all American citizens over age 17 carry a concealed weapon and know how and when to use it. The dead at Va Tech and No Ill and many Malls would likely be alive had those around them been packing and instantly returned fire. The nutcase would have gone down, dead, with multiple fatal wounds before he/she could have squeezed the trigger a second time.

[bot5plus]

People of America: carry a gun whether your stupid phFucccking state says you can or not. Carry a gun whether you get a permit or not. Stupid, ssshhhiiitty assssed laws are met to be broken. PPhhuckk the government and their jaaackkassed laws. We need guns to protect ourselves against the criminals and this ****** group we call the government (which are legalized criminals)

[usbrit-2009]

USbrit, it goes sometihng like this, an armed gunman was shot and killed after opening fore on shoppers, luckily one of the people present, who had a permit to carry, stopped the gunman before more lives could be taken.

Posted by notblue

No it goes like this in the end: an armed gunman was shot and killed after opening fire on shoppers. Unfortunately several of the people present were armed and all immediately opened fire. 27 by-standers were killed in the cross-fire as were all the armed defenders when the police showed up with their fully automatic uzis and couldn''t figure out who the original shooter was and whether he was dead or alive thanks to the mayhem.

[gunownerdan]

USBrit,
I guarantee you will find MANY more real examples of what notblue was talking about compared to what you are talking about.

[gunownerdan]

About 40 states allow good citizens to carry concealed weapons. At first all the emotional gun heters were saying "There''s going to be wild-west-style shootouts in the streets with innocent bystanders being killed all over the place!".
Of course their fears never came true and now those states have seen a reduction in crimes because 5,000,000 good citizens have the ability and the means to protect themselves.

[usbrit-2009]

USBrit,
I guarantee you will find MANY more real examples of what notblue was talking about compared to what you are talking about.

Posted by gunownerdan

Thats only because not everyone has a concealed weapon thank God.

[gunownerdan]

sweetreeeed,
I don''t know what you''ve been told, but LSD is not good for the brain.

[usbrit-2009]

sweetreeeed,
I don''''t know what you''''ve been told, but LSD is not good for the brain.

Posted by gunownerdan

I''ve been wondering what''s up with this guy for a while - I think you nailed it. (LOL)

[gunownerdan]

"..the peaceable part of mankind will be continually overrun by the vile and abandoned, while they neglect the means of self defense."
-- Thomas Paine, The Writings of Thomas Paine, Vol. I (1774-1779) [1774]

A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[guysdigdirt]

Thats only because not everyone has a concealed weapon thank God.
Posted by USBrit

I am very glad you do not want a ccw, we are all better off that way. But do not try and tell me what is best for me.

Gus kill people like a spoon made rosie fat.

[snoopy28173]

The right to bear arms on campus? I don''t think so. The last time I checked, schools and colleges were supposed to be safe havens. Now people arm themselves and think they are safe. What''s to keep the gun from landing in the hands of the wrong person? What''s to keep a person from lieing or having an alterer motive?

[guysdigdirt]

No it goes like this in the end: an armed gunman was shot and killed after opening fire on shoppers. Unfortunately several of the people present were armed and all immediately opened fire. 27 by-standers were killed in the cross-fire as were all the armed defenders when the police showed up with their fully automatic uzis and couldn''''t figure out who the original shooter was and whether he was dead or alive thanks to the mayhem.
Posted by USBrit

Such and overactive and negative and fantasy imagination. Concealed carry has increased in the US over the last 20 years, yet in that same time crime has decreased. Quite the opposite is true of the UK.

[guysdigdirt]

The right to bear arms on campus? I don''''t think so. The last time I checked, schools and colleges were supposed to be safe havens. Now people arm themselves and think they are safe. What''''s to keep the gun from landing in the hands of the wrong person? What''''s to keep a person from lieing or having an alterer motive?
Posted by snoopy28173

Snoops, it is proven that where there are more legal citizen''s carrying a concealed weapon, crime decreases.

To answer your questions about someone telling a lie or a gun falling into the wrong hands, think about it for a moment. If someone is to tell a lie in the first place they will not seek permission to carry a weapon and if someone with the "wrong hands" wants a weapon they will get one. So telling the non-criminal they cannot carry a weapon puts them at an automatic disadvantage to the criminal who will carry one and use it no matter what the law says.

[gunownerdan]

Virginia Tech is a GUN-FREE ZONE.
The killer obviously couldn''t care less!
Sure, the signs made some students FEEL safer, but were they REALLY safer?

"Let me make a point here, in case this isn''t becoming extremely clear. My state has gun control laws. It did not keep Hennard from coming in and killing everybody! What it did do, was keep me from protecting my family! That''s the only thing that cotton pickin'' law did! OK! Understand that! That''s ...that''s so important!"
- Dr. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, Killeen Texas Luby''s massacre survivor

A-HUMAN-RIGHT.com

[guysdigdirt]

My question to you would be how do you NOT cover 60,000 to 80,000 stories per year of legal gun owners protecting themselves and still cover EVERY story involving someone whose "cheese has slid off their cracker"?
Posted by dragonwagon5

Good news does not sell newspapers, magazines or get your tv news watched.

[guysdigdirt]

Brit, are you telling us the UK has it all figured out, or is it that the people there have given up any rights they did have and now submit to their fate of having no rights and no ability to protect themselves... like sheep to the slaughter. So they are not killed, they do subject themselves to daily putting their lives in the hands of the criminals and hope the bobbies show up. That is not living, that is a cage.

[gunownerdan]

My question to you would be how do you NOT cover 60,000 to 80,000 stories per year of legal gun owners protecting themselves and still cover EVERY story involving someone whose "cheese has slid off their cracker"?
Posted by dragonwagon5

This is a very good question dragonwagon5.
Could be because many cases of armed self defense are not reported to police. Could also be because reporting on murders can sell more papers or attract more viewers than reporting on self defense.
With well over 200 cases of armed self defense every single day there would also not be much time to talk about anything else.
But there certainly seems to be an anti-gun and anti-self defense agenda in the mainstream media.
After all, how can everyone rely on the police and the government for protection when they learn that they can be more than capable of protecting themselves?

[gunownerdan]

Sadly there are a lot of bad, and truly disturbed people out there who have absolutely no regard for others or the law.
Unfortunately I know this first hand.
A few years ago my friend and I got attacked by two strangers in a shopping mall parking lot while we
were getting into my car to go home.
I don''t know if they wanted to rob us, carjack me, beat us up, or what but I decided I did not want to find out!
Luckily I always try to be aware of my surroundings and any strangers nearby when I go out in public.
I saw these two guys walking up to us so I prepared myself by getting into my car as quickly as I could
and locked my door. That''s when they began attacking my friend before he could get in the car. Without even thinking about it I immediately started the engine, threw the car into reverse, yelled at my friend to jump in while they were beating him, and then I floored it running over both of the attackers at the same time. In just a split second I ended the situation by having a cool head and knowing what I had to do to stop the attack.
If I did not react the way I did, we could have both been killed and the two thugs would have probably taken my car!
Since then I take my own personal defense very seriously and I advise everyone to do the same.
Criminals will always prefer easy victims!

[gunownerdan]

Last year I purchased a "switchblade knife" for my uncle, a Korean War veteran.
He always wanted one and being a collector I was more than happy to help him get one!
Last time I saw him he told me about how he likes to carry it with him. One day he went to the grocery store with his friends and as they were leaving, two kids came up with a little knife and demanded money!
My uncle pulled out his switchblade and flicked out the blade, then he said "You will need to go through this first!".
He said the eyes on those two kids just about popped out of their heads and they ran away as fast as they could!
I hope they learned a lesson because my uncle sure did.
Self Defense: NEVER LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!

[michellem99-2009]

School is where ye get yer education and guns have no business in the classroom. None. Them bloody mormans they messed UT up. When I was there they picked fights and I was minding my own business. I got the hell out of there.I got picked on and I told the lady shut up and mind her business. She could not think for herself. I DO NOT LIKE GUNS.

[keithle1]

College kids with guns! College kids get drunk! College kids do impulsive, crazy things!

Ah well. Whatever thins the herd.

[gunownerdan]

Can you tell me why asault rifles should be allowed to be purchased by the general public? That is the one class of weapon that I feel should be considered for a ban because they were designed for combat and not hunting, their magazines hold more rounds than would be practical for civilian use, the operator needs little or no training to operate it, the tumbling round inflicts heavy tissue damage on a target, and they are effective from short and long range.
Posted by dragonwagon5

Today basically any common semi-automatic rifle or shotgun are called "assault rifles" including popular hunting shotguns and .22 plinking rifles.
But true assault rifles are fully automatic machine guns and they are already heavily restricted and not available to the average citizen without paying an expensive tax for a license and a complete background check that can take months.
Calling any semi-automatic firearm an "assault weapon" just makes it easier to demonize and ban all handguns and rifles that use a magazine.

[gunownerdan]

Only a responsible adult with proper training and no criminal record, no history of violence, and no mental problems can get a concealed carry permit.
These people are allowed to carry a concealed handgun anywhere they go in public EXCEPT most college campuses.
There are about 5,000,000 citizens in America that have a concealed carry permit and they have proven themselves to be more law-abiding than the average citizen.
Why should these responsible people not be allowed to protect themselves on campus when they can do it everywhere else they go???
Criminals prefer unarmed victims.

[beehive21-2009]

You people will live to see the day when everyone carries a weapon , like the wild west.Why because mankind naturally loves to kill,many have contained the demon and many don''t care too.Gangbangers, bully the weak and would enter your home and help themselves to all your belongings including your children.One good reason for a SKS, M16 , Shot Guns ,etc. in the home or vehicle.

[mommajommah]

i''d like to see a statistic of how many murders have been comitted by conceal-carry permit holders. then id like to see how many students would have been spared their lives if someone had been carrying in some of these school shootings.

[keithle1]

Do you think you with the gun on your hip are gonna be cool & calm when you''re confronted with an armed criminal? You think you''re gonna be Dirty Harry?

[michellem99-2009]

Keithle Dear AMERICA LOVES 3 THINGS...money,cars and guns..No the wild west is the bloody TV shows like Gunsmoke,have gun will travel.The bloody hollywood..Years ago it was not so crazy..They can can kick that gun out of yer paw..Not every one will be toting a gun..The human animal kills not the item..

[libsrweak]

Why should they be allowed?

Posted by dragonwagon5 at 09:34 AM : Mar 30, 2008
+ report abuse

***********

better yet, why do you think i should not be allowed to own one??

[libsrweak]

Do you think you with the gun on your hip are gonna be cool & calm when you''''re confronted with an armed criminal? You think you''''re gonna be Dirty Harry?

Posted by Keithle1 at 05:15 PM : Mar 29, 2008
+ report abuse

********************

no but you are changing your position away from a victim

[libsrweak]

bottomline, these kids are too stupid and too pussyfied to own one let alone use to protect themselves..I would say they just revamp thier campus police and STOP CATERING TO THESE idiotic whiney people.."dont taze me bro"?? come on these college kids these days are all about "I"

iphone, ipod..

[billorights]

I was thinking more along the lines of military issue weapons like AR15''''s, AK47''''s, Mini 14''''s, M16''''s and the german HK series, just to name a few examples. These particular weapons carry up to 30 small caliber high speed tumbling rounds that can kill without actually hitting a kill zone due to their migratory characteristics and extensive tissue damage once they enter the body. Close range or long range they are deadly. Why should they be allowed? - Posted by dragonwagon5

The AR15 is the civilian (not automatic) version of the M16. The Ruger Mini 14 is a civilian semiautomatic rifle similar to the M14. The AK47 is military issue, not available for civilian purchase in the USA. There are civilian semiautomatic versions similar in appearance.These rifles are capable of accepting a magazine capable of various volumes of ammunition. Regarding your reference to tumbling rounds, do not confuse the ammunition with the rifle used to fire it. The only one of the weapons that you have referenced above known to have a tumbling characteristic is the AR15/M16. These use a .223 cal (aka 5.56mm) bullet. The jacketed military version has been known to tumble internally upon contact with bone. The other weapons use a .308 cal (aka 7.62mm) bullet known the world over as a common hunting round. Why should any of these not be allowed? The weapons are all practical in given situations for self-defense. The right to keep and bear arms is not limited to sporting weapons.

[guadalcanal3]

Arming students???...on campus???...I think I''ll settle for home education.

[michellem99-2009]

I can''t bear arms as I lack the sight and hearing to use it properly. Yes it is a right but the young feel they have to own a ton of fire power..They were raised on TV, so they saw that stuff growing up. They fell for hollywood''s wild west and is sad. If they were raised right then the gun would not be on their mind and 24/7. True it is a right that is abused. When the fathers sat down as a people they had the right idea for America. We were young Nation. We did not have a military,police, so they had to be citizen military and cop. Now they are in place. We have talked about this at family table.Ye don''t need a bloody gun just to prove what a bad asre ye are. Every day some one pulls it. My sighted friend said if they do it will be used. Ye want to bear it fine just put a means in it so only the proper owner can use it by their print. They talk about such a system that is all it is.TALK. I think the fathers would be in horror had they been able to see today.

[billorights]

To dragonwagon5 -

Actually, I do not carry any weapon, 24/7 or otherwise. Here in the Republik of Southern Kalifornia, the average citizen cannot qualify for a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit, because as you know, here in a purely urban setting, self defense is not necessary because we have a police force capable of preventing any harm from coming to you.

Additionally, my comments were not related specifically to carrying a concealed weapon for defensive purposes. It is conceivable that an individual would have to defend themselves or their family from a threat outside the effective range of the average handgun. In such a situation, a handgun would be useless. Need an example? How about if your friendly neighborhood assailant is shooting at you with a rifle from beyond handgun range? True, it is not an everyday occurrence, but it is not inconceivable. Can you recall any riots happening in the last 100 years? Would you rather see your neighbor carrying a rifle, or a carload of armed thugs stopping to pay a visit at your house?