US Airways Pilot's Gun Fires In Cockpit

"Accidental Discharge" First Time Shot Fired Under Federal Armed Pilots Program

(AP)  A gun belonging to the pilot of a US Airways plane went off as the aircraft was on approach to land in North Carolina over the weekend, the first time a weapon issued under a federal program to arm pilots was fired, authorities said.

The "accidental discharge" Saturday aboard Flight 1536 from Denver, Colorado, to Charlotte, North Carolina, did not endanger the aircraft or the 124 passengers, two pilots and three flight attendants aboard, said Greg Alter of the Federal Air Marshal Service.

"We know that there was never any danger to the aircraft or to the occupants on board," Alter said Monday.

It is the first time a pilot's weapon has been fired on a plane under a program created after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks to allow pilots and others to use a firearm to defend against any act of air piracy or criminal violence, he said.

The federal Transportation Security Administration is investigating how the gun discharged and is being assisted by the Air Marshal Service, Alter said. Officials did not say where the bullet hit.

The service declined to release additional details.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Mike Fergus said his agency is also investigating to make sure that the plane is safe. The Airbus A319 has been removed from service, the airline said.

The TSA initially opposed the Flight Deck Officer program to arm and train cockpit personnel. Agency officials worried that introducing a weapon to commercial flights was dangerous and that other security improvements made it unnecessary. Congress and pilots backed the program.

"The TSA has never been real supportive of this program," said Mike Boyd, who runs the Colorado-based aviation consulting firm The Boyd Group. "It's something I think Congress kind of put on them."

Pilots must volunteer, take a psychological test and complete a weeklong firearms training program run by the government to keep a gun in the cockpit.

Boyd said he supports the program to arm pilots, saying, "if somebody who has the ability to fly a 747 across the Pacific wants a gun, you give it to them." But he said Saturday's incident could have been much worse.

"If that bullet had compromised the shell of the airplane, i.e., gone through a window, the airplane could have gone down," he said.

[downtowner97]

Maybe the gun course should be a day longer and include a section on how to use the safety lever on a gun.

[tulcak]

oh yeah, i feel safer now... this should illustrate the point that whenever guns are involved things get LESS safe, not more safe. if our first response to anything is to pick up a gun, then we will go down in a blaze of foolishness.

[clew37]

You were playing John Wayne weren''t you boys?

[sistatee-2009]

Next time, put the *** gun on auto pilot!

[missingamerica]

Maybe the gun course should be a day longer and include a section on how to use the safety lever on a gun.

Posted by downtowner97 at 03:17 AM : Mar 25, 2008

Or maybe the flight checklist should include ensuring that all weapons are safed...

[zootallures2]

Well, expect no less on "US" Airways. You hear the gun shot and... "Oh, honey, it''s great to be back home in US and A." "Yes, dear, glad we had that life insurance on Billy before the school shooting so we could finnaly have a vacation."

[zootallures2]

Welcome to the United States of America *POW!* *POW!* *POW!*... and thank you for flying US Airways. And don''t forget to check out the gun show in the lobby and the Army Recruiting station near the taxi gate.

[zootallures2]

"This is the pilot speaking, we,ll have a short delay on landing in Dubai Internation as we need another bombing run over Baghdad. If you look out your window to the left you''ll see the explosive force of our new super nuetron laser guided suitcase smart bomb. It also comes in blue denem or real leather with key or combination lock.

[excoachken]

Now that we see how well it works, lets "arm" all elementary teachers, Walmart greeters, and allow the Disney characters pack a concealed weapon, just in case.

[brianbwb-2009]

Boyd said he supports the program to arm pilots, saying, "if somebody who has the ability to fly a 747 across the Pacific wants a gun, you give it to them."

How about this, "if someone who has the ability to walk to the grocery store wants a gun, you give it to him"

Or this one "if someone who has the ability to play piano wants a gun, you give it to him"

Or this one, "if someone has the ability to reenact two girls one cup solo wants a gun, you give it to him"

Boyd''s comment is one of the stupidest associations I have ever read, the lack of relevance between flying ability and gun use is so obvious, there must be a new word invented to describe it, so here it is...wait for it...

"Man, that was some pure D. Boyd!"...

[zootallures2]

The federal Transportation Security Administration said he was just drunk and they will now require pilots to have a cup of coffee before take off and landings.

[bozworth4]

This is just toooooooooooo easy!


oh yeah, i feel safer now... this should illustrate the point that whenever guns are involved things get LESS safe, not more safe. if our first response to anything is to pick up a gun, then we will go down in a blaze of foolishness.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by tulcak at 04:17 AM : Mar 25, 2008

Kinda like Iraq, don''t talk, don''t believe what''s said, just SHOOT!

[rushlimpdrug]

If the co-pilot had a gun he could have stopped the pilot.

This is a good reason to arm co-pilots.

Of course to stop the co-pilot from doing something stupid with his gun it would only be right to arm the flight attendant.

[xraytwonine]

"...gone through a window, the airplane could have gone down" Mike Boyd, Aviation consultant

What kind of aviation bull$hit is this? plenty of airlines have survived extreme damage, what the hell is this guy talking about?! Quit trying to scare everyone with your buu$hit

[RedCoat999]

"We know that there was never any danger to the aircraft or to the occupants on board," ...Excuse me? Understatement of the year award or what? Guns aren''t dangerous now? If a bullet meets flesh, the bullet usually wins...

[rowdytexan2]

Yowser!!!

[mrvolleyba11]

What kind of aviation bull$hit is this? plenty of airlines have survived extreme damage, what the hell is this guy talking about?! Quit trying to scare everyone with your buu$hit
------------------------------------------------------
Posted by xraytwonine


I think he is talking about a bullit going thru the cockpit window at 35,000 feet and 600MPH! ...I really don''t think the cockpit window would hold up to that! and no body would be able to fly a jet with that wind hitting them in the face, think about it before you post Bull$hit!

[robertkjjj]

Incredibly doubtful you could make a large commercial jet "go down" by firing a handgun anywhere at it, or in it, during flight. Remember: these jets have suffered massive damage during flights many times worse than a single bullet hole and landed safely. This includes a 737 near Hawaii: a 15-foot section of the ceiling above the passengers simply ripped off in flight and the plane didn%u2019t crash. A 747 over the Pacific had a cargo door rip off and a massive hole in the side of the plane, and it landed. A 737 over England had the windshield blow out in flight, and it landed. Again and again these planes prove how resilient they are, yet this bozo wants us to believe you''ll "go down" from a single pistol bullet? Not likely.

[mrvolleyba11]

xraytwonine

not to mention if it had hit any vital controls need for flight! ...and just because a very few aircraft have survived major damage in flight doesn''t mean they all can!

[flreason]

As usual, the government agency is in denial. Arming pilots couldn''t possibly endanger passengers! They''re determined to arm pilots to protect us against terrorists weilding 3 oz. tubes of toothpaste.

Human ingenuity being what it is, if terrorists wanted to take over an airplane, they''d find a way to do it. What the government wants to do is to scare you into supporting the huge contracts that they are funneling to the Halliburton subsidiaries. Don''t you feel safer with Cheney, Inc. in control? ...

Federal Marshal: The "accidental discharge" Saturday aboard Flight 1536 from Denver, Colorado, to Charlotte, North Carolina, did not endanger the aircraft or the 124 passengers, two pilots and three flight attendants aboard, said Greg Alter of the Federal Air Marshal Service."

Mike Boyd, Aviation Consultant: "If that bullet had compromised the shell of the airplane, i.e., gone through a window, the airplane could have gone down."

Which version do YOU believe?!!!

[mrvolleyba11]

it is very possible for a single bullet could take it down, maybe not likey but it is "possible". aircraft have gone down for a lot smaller issues/damage just as they have not crashed for some serious issues/damage!

[usbrit-2009]

As usual, the government agency is in denial. Arming pilots couldn''''t possibly endanger passengers! They''''re determined to arm pilots to protect us against terrorists weilding 3 oz. tubes of toothpaste.

Posted by flreason

Note the story states that the TSA was/is not happy with the idea of arming pilots. The program was foisted on them by congress.

[mrvolleyba11]

the real issue is how did it go off, I don''t believe he was just sitting there and it all of a sudden discharged? having handled many guns target practing and hunting I''d find that unlikey!

[macusweil]

Great the pilot has a gun but doesn''t know how to use it and 99% of the flights in US have no air marshal. Fewer than 1 percent are protected by on-board, armed federal air marshals, a nationwide CNN investigation has found.

GOP is really keeping us safer.. I''m voting republican in 2008 all the way!! Occupation in Iraq for the next 100 years, here we come!!!

[generey]

One bullet thru the aircraft skin would not decompress the aircraft or bring it down. Yea, if it took out the cockpit window there would be a problem, but as someone already said, a gun does''nt just fire, unless someone was handling it say, showing it off to someone else. I''d say there is a job as a pilot with US Airway''s about to open up.

[macusweil]

"They are determined to arm pilots to protect us against terrorists wielding 3 oz. tubes of toothpaste. "

Yeah because that is cheaper than paying silly over-priced air marshals. Let pilots fly the plane and shoot bad guys at same time. It will save a lot of money so we can $$ spend more in Iraq spreading democracy.

[gzuckier]

now now, who among us has not had an accidental discharge now and then? however, mine has never jeopardized an airliner.

[jumkey]

Ah, another responsible gun owner. You guys certainly are model citizens.

I think possessing a handgun is like driving while talking on a cellphone - just the act itself seems to correspond to a drop of 20 IQ points.

Well thank god he didn''t randomly walk the plane shooting passengers, although I''m sure that''s next. Gun owners seem to be nothing but copycats. "Hey, that guy shot up an airplane! I''m gonna shoot one up too!"

Fortunately no one was killed, I''m not sure I could take endless moronic nonsensical comments on this forum about how it was necessary to kill the unarmed people to preserve the rights of the handguns to exists.

[newsjunky5]

Good thing he didn''t shoot the other pilot, then become so traumatized he couldn''t fly the plane. Because the cockpit door is locked, and nobody can get in. Imagine trying to talk sense to a flipped out pilot through the cabin door, as the plane wanders into restricted airspace. I can almost see the sidewinders from the window seat now.

[newsjunky5]

I feel a bumpersticker coming on:

"Pilots Have More Accidental Discharges"

[kattyclayz]

To you anti-gun freaks,(AKA:jumkey) not everyone who owns a gun is irresponsible or moronic. What do you intend to do when the criminals are the only people with guns because the weapons have been banned completely? Do you REALLY think that people won''t be able to get their hands on guns with a ban? They can, and it will mostly be the people who want to rob you and kill you just for the heck of it. Get a clue.

Yes, it''s horrible that this man''s gun went off in the cockpit of an airplane. If it would have his the windows it would have brought down the plane like one of those styrofoam airplanes I used to have as a child. Thank God that no one was hurt. I can''t say that I blame the pilot because, it happens. Just ask our VP. hehehe.(I still think that''s funny) After 9/11, what pilot wouldn''t think, "***, I need SOMETHING to protect myself and the plane with, what about a gun?" Maybe next time he should make sure the trigger lock is on and he has to *** it to get the bullet in the chamber to fire.. Good luck Mr. Pilot!

[berniepeders]

I recently watched a documentary about how peoples'' behavior can change based on their circumstances. They had a group of people who admitted they were "non-violent peace lovers", and after subjecting them to just a few hours of psychological and physical stress, most of them became violent and aggressive. I think a lot of you anti-gun people, if you were in the right situation, would thank your lucky stars that there was someone there with a gun to take out a threat to your life. It has happened many times.
Pax vobiscum

[inmo-2009]

"Ah, another responsible gun owner. You guys certainly are model citizens.I think possessing a handgun is like driving while talking on a cellphone - just the act itself seems to correspond to a drop of 20 IQ points." posted by jumkey
Well I take offense to that. There is a gun in my home that is hidden, gun lock on and the bullets are in a totally different room. So am I a morno - what about the farmers who have sghotguns - just in case they need it - or the off duty police officer/militray person who has personal guns - or what about tpeople just wanting to protect their family who just leave the gun in a safe place. Accidents happen - no one was hurt other than those of us who had to read your moronic post.

[berniepeders]

There is a gun in my home that is hidden, gun lock on and the bullets are in a totally different room.

Posted by InMo at 10:36 AM : Mar 25, 2008

InMo: Don''t get me wrong, I''m a gun owner too, but I don''t understand what good a gun is if it''s all locked up, and the bullets are in another room. Mine is in my sock drawer, right at the foot of our bed, and it is loaded at all times. It''s been there for 12 years, and the only time I''ve taken it out was for target practice and to clean it. But if and when I need it, I won''t have to run around the house trying to unlock it and load it, while someone is breaking into our home.
P.S. We don''t have kids, and if we did, they would be taught at an early age how to use a weapon, and also when Daddy says don''t touch my gun, it means DON''T TOUCH MY GUN!.
Pax vobiscum

[option-allie]

Perhaps the round was of the "frangible" variety and not a solid round. Either way, a very close call. Hope he didn''t leave Denver on a Rocky Mountain High! Oh, the drug screen should tell.......

[j3pup]

As an airline transport pilot and a gun supporter, it deeply saddens me to see that the flying public still believes that a bullet through a window will bring an airplane down. This is completely false!!!! These aircraft have two "outflow valves that regulate the pressure within the aircraft by opening and closing.

Bulletholes in a window are about the size of your pinky, both outflow valves are approximately the size of a basketball. If a hole in a window or even an entire window would blow out these valves would open to increase the flow of air into the cabin, thus equalizing the pressure instantly. Mythbusters recently simulated this situation and was not able to make anything nasty happen to the aircraft firing multiple shots through the windows with a high pressure differential. All it did was a create a little bit of a whistle. They were so frustrated at the lack of a big bang, that they took coordite and blow half the fuselage away for fun.

Additionally on any aircraft you fly on l
ook around the aircraft doors, occasionally you can see light to the outside. These aircraft leak air all over, but just whistle a little.

This Boyd guy doesn''t have a clue about aircraft apparently and the reporter who wrote this story should not have added that ignorant comment. Of course as I have seen in many cases over the years, that wouldn''t sell papers.

Here is a link to the Mythbusters results...
http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2004/01/mythbusters_explosive_decompre.html

[slim1h2o]

"Pilots Have More Accidental Discharges"

Posted by newsjunky5 at 10:28 AM : Mar 25, 2008

Don''t you mean premature? LOL

[dbstevens]

It''s absurd to have a regular gun on an aircraft for obvious reasons. Piercing the hull of the craft would be too easy and could bring the plane down. What the pilots should have should be some sort of lesser force weapon that could immediately disable a threatening person but not be powerful enough to pierce the hull or a window of an aircraft. Is there no intelligence at ALL with some of these decisions? Sheesh.

[gunownerdan]

Why is it that gun haters almost always rely on sterotypes and childish insults?

[jumkey]

InMo: really, does Kattyclayz belong in the pantheon of "responsible gun owners"?

"Just ask our VP. hehehe.(I still think that''s funny)"

She thinks it''s "funny" that someone accidentally got shot in the face. You''re defending this sentiment? Oh, and it''s only "horrible" that a gun went off in a cockpit of a commercial airliner endangering the lives of hundreds of people in the air and on the ground? Who''s the "freak" here?

Gun owners care more about their pieces of metal (whose only purpose is the false sense of power it gives them) than the lives of their children. I''m sorry for you that you think this way.

Desiring to own a handgun is the best reason not to be allowed to do so.

[jumkey]

gunownerdan: pot kettle black pal.

[gunownerdan]

Piercing the hull of the craft would be too easy and could bring the plane down.
Posted by brucestevens

I think they proved this is false on the show "Mythbusters". A bullet hole in a plane will not bring it down unless the bullet hits some important wires or hoses.

[gunownerdan]

jumkey,
Are stereotypes and insults all you really have to support your "argument"?

[flreason]

"As an airline transport pilot and a gun supporter, it deeply saddens me to see that the flying public still believes that a bullet through a window will bring an airplane down. This is completely false!!!!"
Posted by j3pup

It''s good to have the perspective of someone with expertise. However, I can still see dangers regarding firearms on airplanes, even if a bullet can''t bring the plane down. How about using tazers instead? Airline personnel would still have tools to use against terrorists, but the dangers associated with accidental discharge of a firearm would be eliminated. The same kind of training would, of course, be necessary to ensure that airline employees didn''t resort to its use in circumstances other than terrorist or other extreme threat situations.

[gunownerdan]

Desiring to own a handgun is the best reason not to be allowed to do so.
Posted by jumkey

Tell that to the single mother who''s life has been threatened many times by her abusive ex-boyfriend.
Tell that to the elderly woman who lives alone in a high-crime neighborhood and who''s home has already been broken into.

[thgdriver]

Jay Leno last night said the pilot was trying to open a can of beer with it when it discharged. I laughed my aiss off.

The gun debate still rages here I see, ain''t nobody changed their minds and I don''t give a rats aiss.

I am licensed to carry firearms in my state and on occasion I do. Other wise my loaded 357 snub nose revolver is right by my bed in the night stand.

When visitors arrive at my home, I, or my wife lock the bedroom door.

[gunownerdan]

How about using tazers instead?
Posted by flreason

The problem with tasers is the fact that you only get one shot.
What if you miss?
What if there is more than one attacker?
That''s why many believe pilots armed with a handgun is the best defense against hijackings.
And bullets are made that can disintegrate on impact to avoid punching holes in the fuselage.

[tulcak]

j3pup and dangunowner, both of you just shut the f**k up. the fact that pilots have to carry guns should tell you the state of our security... none, thank you bush and cheney.. i don''t give one flying f**k whether or not you are allowed to own a hand gun... A HAND GUN... only one purpose for that.. to kill other people.. i wish all of you gun lovers would take your guns, but the barrel in your mouth pointing at your single brain cell and pull the f**king trigger.

[gunownerdan]

tulcak,
All that rage and hatefulness can''t be very good for your emotional health.

[tulcak]

let''s go one further: oops! pentagon admits missile mixup: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/25/national/main3966059.shtml

gee, isn''t it great how weapons make us safer and more moral people,... hand guns; hey, you can kill dozens; missles; hey, you can kill freakin millions!!!
oh my god!!! whewwww hooo!!!!! yeah!!! kill em all!!!