Deadly Clashes Break Out In Basra, Baghdad

Iraqi Leaders Face Grave Shiite Crisis As U.S. And Iraqi Troops Battle Militia Loyal To Al-Sadr

(CBS/AP)  Iraq's leaders faced their gravest challenge in months Tuesday as Shiite militiamen loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr battled for control of the southern oil capital, fought U.S. and Iraqi troops in Baghdad and unleashed rockets on the Green Zone.

Armed Mahdi Army militiamen appeared on some Baghdad streets for the first time in more than six months, as al-Sadr's followers announced a nationwide campaign of strikes and demonstrations to protest a government crackdown on their movement. Merchants shuttered their shops in commercial districts in several Baghdad neighborhoods.

U.S. and Iraqi troops backed by helicopters fought Shiite militiamen in Baghdad's Sadr City district after the local office of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's Dawa Party came under attack, the U.S. said. Residents of the area reported intermittent explosions and gunfire in the area late Tuesday.

Al-Sadr's spokesman called for a general strike across Iraq, followed by a popular revolt and threatened war as a final option, reports CBS News chief foreign correspondent Lara Logan. In an effort to win sympathy, the radical cleric ordered his Mahdi Army militiamen to deliver the Holy Koran to Iraqi soldiers and police manning checkpoints - the gesture apparently well received.

An American soldier was killed in fighting Tuesday afternoon in Baghdad, the U.S. military said. No further details were released, and it was unclear whether Shiite militiamen were responsible.

Although all sides appeared reluctant to trigger a conflagration, Brig. Gen. Ed Cardon, assistant commander of the U.S. task force operating south of Baghdad, said the situation in the south was "very complicated" and "the potential for miscalculation is high."

The burgeoning crisis - part of an intense power struggle among Shiite political factions - has major implications for the United States. An escalation could unravel the cease-fire which al-Sadr proclaimed last August. A resumption of fighting by his militia could kill more U.S. soldiers and threaten - at least in the short run - the security gains Washington has hailed as a sign that Iraq is on the road to recovery.

The confrontation will also test the skill and resolve of Iraq's Shiite-led government in dealing with Shiite militias, with whom the national leadership had maintained close ties.

Underscoring the serious stakes at play, al-Maliki, a Shiite, remained in the southern city of Basra to command the security operation. Sweeps were launched at dawn to rid the city of militias and criminal gangs that ruled the streets even before the British handed over control to the Iraqis in December.

U.S. and Iraqi officials believe some factions of al-Sadr's movement maintain close ties with Iran, which provides them with weapons, money and training. Iran denies the allegation.

Basra, located near the Iranian border about 340 miles southeast of Baghdad, is the center of the country's vast oil industry. Stability in the city is essential if Iraq is to attract huge investments needed to restore its neglected oil fields and export facilities.

Throughout the day, the sounds of explosions and machine gunfire echoed through Basra's streets as Iraqi soldiers and police fought the Mahdi Army in at least four strategic neighborhoods.

Logan reports that as many as 10,000 members of Iraqi forces were involved in the operation.

At least 31 people were killed and 88 wounded, according to police and hospital officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not supposed to release the information.

Associated Press Television News video showed smoke rising over Basra, and coalition jets prowling the skies while ambulances raced through the streets.

Iraqi police and soldiers prevented journalists from reaching the areas of heaviest fighting, and it was unclear which side had the upper hand by sundown.

Iraqi military spokesman Col. Karim al-Zaidi acknowledged that government troops were facing stiff resistance.

Residents of one neighborhood said Mahdi Army snipers were firing from rooftops. Others fired rocket-propelled grenades at the troops, then scurried away on motorcycles. Other residents said police fled their posts.

Residents spoke by telephone on condition of anonymity because of fear of reprisals, and their accounts could not be confirmed.

British troops remained at their base at the airport outside Basra and were not involved in the ground fighting Tuesday, according to the British Ministry of Defense. Air support was being provided, but a spokesman would not say if it was U.S. or British planes.

The British had given assurances that the Iraqis could handle security in the city when they withdrew last year.

In Baghdad, several salvos of rockets were fired at the U.S.-protected Green Zone, which houses the American and British embassies. There were no reports of casualties, but the blasts sent people scurrying for concrete bunkers.

Lawmakers from al-Sadr's movement announced that a civil disobedience campaign which began Monday in selected neighborhoods of the capital was being extended nationwide. The campaign was seen as an indication that the Sadrists want to assert their power without provoking a major showdown with the Americans, who inflicted massive casualties on the Mahdi Army during fighting in 2004.

Iraq's national security adviser, Mouwaffak al-Rubaie, was in contact with the Sadrist leadership in hopes of easing the crisis, said a top Sadrist official, Liwa Smeism.

Schools and shops were closed in many predominantly Shiite districts. "All shops are closed in my area except bakeries and vegetable stands," said Furat Ali, 35, a merchant in southwestern Baghdad.

Police also reported fighting between Iraqi security forces and Mahdi militiamen in the Shiite cities of Hillah and Kut, which lies on a major route between Baghdad and the Iranian border.

The showdown with al-Sadr has been brewing for months but has accelerated since parliament agreed in February to hold provincial elections by the fall. The U.S. had been pressing for new elections to give Sunnis, who boycotted the last provincial balloting three years ago, a chance for greater power.

Al-Sadr's followers have also been eager for elections, believing they can make significant gains in the oil-rich Shiite south at the expense of Shiite parties with close U.S. ties.

Sadrists have accused rival Shiite parties, which control Iraqi security forces, of engineering the arrests to prevent them from mounting an effective election campaign.

They also complain that few of their followers have been granted amnesty under a new law designed to free thousands held by the Iraqis and Americans.

"The police and army are being used for political goals, while they should be used for the benefits of all the Iraqi people," said Nassar al-Rubaei, leader of the Sadrist bloc in parliament. "If these violations continue, a huge popular eruption will take place that no power on Earth can stop."

In other developments:

Senior administration and military officials tell The New York Times that U.S. troop levels in Iraq will stay at similar levels during the previous five years of the war through 2008, according to plans presented to President Bush by Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and the U.S. Ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker.

The FBI said it has recovered the remains of two kidnapped U.S. contractors in Iraq. The agency identified the contractors as Ronald Withrow of Roaring Springs, Texas, and John Roy Young of Kansas City, Missouri.

The White House said Monday it was "a sober moment" as the U.S. death toll in Iraq climbed to 4,000.

© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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by zootallures2 March 25, 2008 6:09 AM PDT

Check out the: Week In Iraq Photos

Well...um... The US tanks have a nice paint job...?

Reply to this comment

by mcvet March 25, 2008 6:59 AM PDT

It appears that this Cleric, who is the real power in Iraq, my not continue his cease fire, in which case I believe the Civil War will start up yet again. All this trash by the Bush Administration about Al Queda in Iraq and the rest of it is just more Bush Lies. This Cleric IS a Major Player in Iraq and he''s been keeping a low profile while the Paid Sunni''s have been killing Radical Sunni''s. Sieg Heil Bush.

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by skyk-2009 March 25, 2008 7:02 AM PDT

It appears that this Cleric, who is the real power in Iraq, my not continue his cease fire, in which case I believe the Civil War will start up yet again. All this trash by the Bush Administration about Al Queda in Iraq and the rest of it is just more Bush Lies. This Cleric IS a Major Player in Iraq and he''''s been keeping a low profile while the Paid Sunni''''s have been killing Radical Sunni''''s. Sieg Heil Bush.


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Posted by MCVet at 06:59 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

I believe you are right on this Sarge but what is so concerning is that the Republican Canidate for President wouldn''t have understood a word you posted. He doesn''t know who the players are and isn''t going to figure that out in the near future it appears.

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by tulcak March 25, 2008 7:09 AM PDT

REPEAT AFTER ME: THE SURGE IS WORKING... THE SURGE IS WORKING...

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by afmca March 25, 2008 8:31 AM PDT

Once al-Sadr calls off his cease fire all of America will be exposed to the lie that the surge is working. American troops will NEVER bring either stability of peace to Iraq - Iraqis will fight a brutal civil war and another in a long line of dictators will take Saddam''s place. This time it will probably by Shiite aligned with Iran; instead of Sunni, but the end result will be the same or worse. All America will have to show for Bush''s stupidity is 4,000+ dead, thousands more wounded, military corporations rich, and domestic needs unfunded. The Bush legacy.

Reply to this comment

by ajaxtheleast March 25, 2008 8:42 AM PDT

"powerful" Madhi army? Compared to what?
So far Sadr has been smart. He hasn''t fallen
for the bait. Bush wants him out in the
open as an army. Sadr remembers the thrashing
his army received against the US. His cease
fire isn''t from the goodness of his heart.

If Bush wants the Medhi army out, Sadr should
not end the cease fire.

I''d like to see whatever of the Mahdi army
that is fighting in Basra give the Iraqi
army all that they can handel.

Also, can Maliki''s heart really
be in this?

Reply to this comment

by prinzowhales March 25, 2008 9:10 AM PDT

Since Afghanistan does not exist in the CBS matrix today...here is a link to an article from Reuters regarding the Afgahn freedom fighters destroying tankers carrying fuel to the NATO occupation forces... and, it was a really big fire, apparently.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=8282

...thirty-six tankers at the Pak-Afghan border...

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by prinzowhales March 25, 2008 9:22 AM PDT

Betrayus has finally confirmed that the "surge" was not a "surge" but a simple reinforcement.

The Iraqi Regime has upped the ante and begun to attack the Sadr people...apparently, they have no desire to to maintain the truce. The US, which calls everyone they want to a "terrorist" will have no problem declaring any Sadrist they want to a "renegade" to justify action against them.

"Conducting suspicious activity" merits the death penalty in Iraq today....Like that "suspicious" family that lost 15 members when the US rocketed their home in Baquba..."Why, oh why do they hate us?"

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by venkata4--2008 March 25, 2008 9:37 AM PDT

"Since Afghanistan ..here is a link to an article from Reuters regarding really big fire, .. www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=8282
...thirty-six tankers at the Pak-Afghan border.by Prinzowhales at 09:10 AM : Mar 25, 2008"

Persons with military back ground were good presidents in the future. They know what does it means being in the battle field. This Prez. & VP never served all they could see is 20% world oil reserves and a weak dictator with bag full of sins and problems.

When Mr. Powell and others suggested a strong 300,000 to 500,000 troops for peace keeping no body bothered. A surge able to keep a better peace atleast for some time. Imagine following Mr. Powell''s suggestion. Under UN many nations were ready to commit their troops. Now it is a big mess and no body wants to touch. And in Afghanistan Taliban is becoming powerful and there no oil or natural gas reserves it is last in the list. NATO was asked to increase troops. Like Halliburton''s KBR no body is getting any no bid contracts in EU so why would they commit ?
Very sad that troops are paying the ultimate price. Due to tax cuts to richest and war is run with internal barrowing record 3 trillions our grand children have those debts. Remember we are told war is going to cost 50 billions and 2nd year onwards with Iraqi oil exports war can be run, and 685 billions and counting where is Iraq and it''s money ? This Prez., VP cannot see beyond big oil & defense suppliers bottom lines.

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by venkata4--2008 March 25, 2008 9:40 AM PDT

"Persons with military back ground were good presidents in the future.
Posted by venkata4 at 09:37 AM : Mar 25, 2008"

Sorry I meant in the past.

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by singingrick March 25, 2008 9:41 AM PDT

Ultimately, all Sadr has to do is withdraw into the shadows and fight a Gorilla war. With the backing of Iran, he can be far more menacing than Sunni insurgents have been so far.

This boondoggle will end with the U.S. bankrupted and thousands of lives wasted for nothing. You cannot win a gorilla war in Iraq or anywhere else when the will of their people is against you.

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by stn_sage March 25, 2008 9:55 AM PDT

What? More evidence we''re winning the war?!

Just like the German propaganda machine kept telling the German public, up to the time the Russians started their assault on Berlin, that Germany was winning the war---so to, will the Bush administration be making the same claim after handing this war off to the next president to deal with!

And ofcourse, it''s a war that will have to be won by the Iraqis themselves!

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by prinzowhales March 25, 2008 10:02 AM PDT

venkata4--I''ve read, but haven''t bothered to confirm, that Afghanistan has huge untapped energy reserves.

Using "other people''s money" is the way to great wealth, and as long as the people are paying in blood and treasure for the maintenance of the narco-Regime in Kabul, the Opium interests don''t seem to have much of a downside and lots of profit.

The pipeline route that Big Oil wanted through Afghanistan is also on the table...We are paying for Big Oil''s failure to strike a deal with the Taliban over transit rights and payments.

There is also a geopolitical consideration that seems rather specious to me.

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by prinzowhales March 25, 2008 10:04 AM PDT

stn-sage--Actually, the Germans were more accurate than the British up until Stalingrad.

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by mcvet March 25, 2008 10:09 AM PDT

Remember we are told war is going to cost 50 billions and 2nd year onwards with Iraqi oil exports war can be run, and 685 billions and counting where is Iraq and it''''s money ? This Prez., VP cannot see beyond big oil & defense suppliers bottom lines.


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Posted by venkata4 at 09:37 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

Military background is no promise of a great leader. Bush HAD all the training and Darth was linked to the Military for years... they have both been complete failures. TRUTH and UNITY is the key to this nation winning anything. This fight was lost the day after 9/11 when the Republican Base came out and started using the attack for political purposes. It continued non stop through the 2004 elections. The Number of troops isn''t as important as the PEOPLE behind those troops being united and understanding the mission. That leads to the biggest failure here.. the 935 lies told to start this war. That no Leader, military or not can overcome. An American Mom has a hard time parting with her son but when someone LIES to her about that reason?? Well that''s just something you are not going to get away with. Sieg Heil Bush

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by prinzowhales March 25, 2008 10:09 AM PDT

venkata4--I always think of USS Grant when I think of bad presidents...On the other hand, I think of Andrew Jackson and George Washington when I think of great ones...

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by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 10:12 AM PDT

Ultimately, all Sadr has to do is withdraw into the ..shadows and fight a Gorilla war... not win a gorilla war

Posted by singingrick

-------------------------
------
--
Noun 1. guerilla - a member of an irregular armed force that fights a stronger force by sabotage and harassment
guerrilla, irregular, insurgent
guerilla force, guerrilla force - an irregular armed force that fights by sabotage and harassment; often rural and organized in large groups
Maquis, Maquisard - a guerrilla fighter in the French underground in World War II
urban guerrilla - a guerrilla who fights only in cities and towns

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Gorilla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gorillas, the largest of the living primates, are ground-dwelling omnivores that inhabit the forests of Africa.

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by stn_sage March 25, 2008 10:14 AM PDT

stn-sage--Actually, the Germans were more accurate than the British up until Stalingrad.
Posted by Prinzowhales at 10:04 AM : Mar 25, 2008

My response: I don''t follow your post. What are you referring to, ...more accurate than the British, what are you saying, what do you mean? In terms of what?
Please elaborate.

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by joyous88 March 25, 2008 10:15 AM PDT

mission accomplished

the surge is working

we are all safe from the orange alerts now

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by prinzowhales March 25, 2008 10:16 AM PDT

This year, we have three nothings running for office...a lousy pilot and security risk and two ambitious attorneys who have to lie to boost their curriculum vitae while keeping their shady dealings suppressed.

Even Truman had a career as a Senator...He came within an inch of getting a Bush indicted under the "Trading with the Enemy Act" and got one of the Queen''s horsey set, who headed Standard of New Jersey, dismissed in disgrace for their actions of behalf of the Nazis. Neither Obama nor Clinton have distinguished themselves in that ignoble body.

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by notblue March 25, 2008 10:16 AM PDT

Floydcreep, di you bother to read the article? IRAQI FORCES are now battling the thugs! You know, your brothers, Al Sadres militants. Regardless, the Iraqis are doing the fighting not Americans, that is TRUE progress.

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by prinzowhales March 25, 2008 10:17 AM PDT

stn-sage--...more accurate in terms of the news regarding the war.

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by notblue March 25, 2008 10:21 AM PDT

McVet, do you have anything to offer other than the same move.on propoghanda for the weak minded sheep, we have all heard those talking points every day for every article. Why not try something RELEVANT to the article for a change if your capable.

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by notblue March 25, 2008 10:26 AM PDT

Floydzepp,I guess the miltant thugs just aren''t ready to give up yet, it is difficult for brainwashed terrorists to just quit. You are a classic example of that. Unlike you and most Leftwing Americans who were ready to surrender to this evil months ago, calling this campaign in Iraq against the radicals a failure, these militants have the will to fight freedom knowing their days are numbered. you people need to read all articles pertaining to Iraq, the enemy is losing and progress is being made on EVERY front. You people will look like fools when the Iraqis take full control oftheir destiny thanks to the U.S.

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by joyous88 March 25, 2008 10:29 AM PDT

if the surge is working

than why does this, look, sound, and smell,

like the civil war bush keeps denying?

you know, bush denys global climate change (look up ice age in the dictionary if you doubt climate change)
and bush denys evolution

I wonder what else the nut does not believe in?

Oh yea! a solid economy

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by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 10:30 AM PDT

FloydZepp n. - 1. Term used to describe child in adult body/name calling immature adult. 2. Plays poorly with other people. 3. See also, Bush obsession/derangement syndrome, adult child, loner, loser, social misfit, scapegoat artist, egocentric, narcissism, mind reader.

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by iceman_1960 March 25, 2008 10:36 AM PDT

Has Joe Lieberman told John McCain what public statement to make about this yet ?

McCain has got to stop making propaganda statements for his captors. It"s a bad habit he picked up in North Vietnam.

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by stn_sage March 25, 2008 10:37 AM PDT

Prinzowhales - Okay! I see what you''re saying, while your post is not directly related to my post, I agree with your point. Things didn''t go well for the U.K. in the early years, and their press didn''t always report the full extent of the problems! Whereas, the Germans were winning and it was much easier for their press to report this. I agree.

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by ramos937 March 25, 2008 10:48 AM PDT

Does anyone in the McCain camp have the guts to tell McCain how ridiculous he appears when he says that Iraq is now more peaceful and that great strides have been made in Iraq to secure it? Yet this week''s events directly contradict him. McCain deserves better than this from his staff.

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by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 10:53 AM PDT

bhoog, did you Shrub Sucklers throw a party when No. 4000 died?

Mission Accomplished!
The Insurgents are in their last Throes!
Freedom''''s on the March!

The Surge is Working!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by FloydZepp at 10:47 AM : Mar 25, 2008

---------------------
--------

FloydZepp , you may want to get professional help.

I voted for Kerry

I was against this war.

Reply to this comment

by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 11:12 AM PDT

I think you need to re-evaluate who you judge just by listening to a program....
Posted by jh6379 at 11:05 AM : Mar 25, 2008

---------------
-
''''''

Zepp is just swinging at everyone. Seems to have the same discrimination as a wacko mall shooter.

Reply to this comment

by ewnnrj March 25, 2008 11:13 AM PDT

Okay, you good ''journalists'' and Bush backers, repeat after me: "the surge is working, the surge is working..." Ooops, guess not. The Surge coincided with Sadr''s truce, which probably an attempt on his part to manipulate the ''08 elections in the US; but on the 5th anniversary of the conquest, Sadr''s people obviously decided on their own they''d had enough - now there''s democracy for you! Well, how about another Surge? I suggest we surge all our soldiers out of Iraq NOW!

Reply to this comment

by mcvet March 25, 2008 11:18 AM PDT

No bush vote here.
I''''m a pinko, socialist, bed-wetting lib and *** proud of it!

Anything is better than a neocon scumbag.


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Posted by jh6379 at 10:52 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

You Nazi''s have been repeating this tired old line since your fuhrer was McCarthy... Has it ever occured to you that maybe you should change the line. Maybe put a memo in to you Nazi Youth Commander?? Sieg Heil Bush

Reply to this comment

by mcvet March 25, 2008 11:20 AM PDT

Ze
pp is just swinging at everyone. Seems to have the same discrimination as a wacko mall shooter.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by bhoogren at 11:12 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

Doesn''t sound that way to me... maybe you need to get off you knees and stop licking those boots. The world may have a different view from the standing position... And for GOD''s Sake take off the swastika''s... they look silly! Sieg Heil Bush

Reply to this comment

by joyous88 March 25, 2008 11:21 AM PDT

check out the british comedy called

''absolutely fabulous'' you will see a tall blond that

is the spitting image of McBushCain''s wife

Reply to this comment

by pfd572 March 25, 2008 11:27 AM PDT

This is now a civil war, no matter how dub tries to spin it. There will be fighting between factions until one is able to overpower and repress the weaker. Sound familiar? Isn''t that what was happening before we invaded? It hasn''t ended because we are there. Does dub and the other self-seeking, self-centered, sociopathic, avaricious, brain injured, right-wing butchers plan on sacrificing American troops until no one is left? These are religious fanatics who see rapture in dying for their beliefs. Armed troops will not change their minds or their commitment to their beliefs that Sunnis think Shiite Muslims are heretics and vice versa. Iraqi troops are made up of the same groups that are fighting each other, so how long before there is a total breakdown. Let them fight their own civil war. BRING OUR TROOPS HOME.

Reply to this comment

by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 11:29 AM PDT

...and get over YOUR hypocrisy as well. I''''ve read your posts in the past too....

Posted by FloydZepp at 11:22 AM : Mar 25, 2008
-------------
----
Get help, such a smart mind to sound like you do.

Reply to this comment

by pfd572 March 25, 2008 11:32 AM PDT

And let''s all try and be adults. Attacking Cindy McCain for the way she looks (or anyone else) is about as childish as grade schoolers making fun of the overweight kids or the kids with glasses. It completely erases any credibility you may have about relevant issues.

Reply to this comment

by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 11:35 AM PDT

Try again with your Martyr Approach. That didn''''t sound sincere as you insulted me with sugar.....

Posted by FloydZepp at 11:32 AM : Mar 25, 2008

------------------
--------
Sad, very sad. Just swinging wildly away.

Reply to this comment

by geecee827 March 25, 2008 11:35 AM PDT

Ah, what a surprise! Problems popping up in Basra. Gee, I thought the surge WAS working. Oh, well, after 5 years, (longer than it took us to defeat the Germans AND the Japanese!!) we are still there and making very little progress. Of course, a half trillion dollars spent should make some difference, but I would like to see exactly what and where the progress has been made. The Iraqi government, such as it is, would love to have us stay there and keep pouring our "unlimited" resources (troops and dollars) into Iraq for the next 50 years. I think I am just resigned to having our troops stay there indefinitely and sending the U.S.A. bankrupt (morally and fiscally) in the process. Such a pleasant thought. Thank you, Bush/Cheney for the past 8 years of HELL. Your plan to control the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world hasn''t worked has it, or we wouldn''t be paying $3.29 a gallon for gasoline. Have we learned our lesson yet??

Reply to this comment

by underdogus March 25, 2008 11:37 AM PDT

I would challenge you to accept the one true god. Most holy Allah. posted by FloydZepp march 23,2008

Reply to this comment

by pfd572 March 25, 2008 11:37 AM PDT

With what I posted about the civil war, there is a need to end widespread genocide. But, that being said, it has to be a UN operation, not just the United States. Other countries need to make it clear that genocide will not be ignored or condoned for oil or other financial benefits. I just wish we knew how to do it right.

Reply to this comment

by March 25, 2008 11:38 AM PDT

It''s the same old stuff, give the surge time! it looks like it''s working. It''s like a scratched record that keeps skipping and drives you nut''s. Get a new record and surge out of Iraq "NOW"....

Reply to this comment

by underdogus March 25, 2008 11:39 AM PDT

Floyd Zepp the numb.1 terrorist supporter...

Reply to this comment

by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 11:39 AM PDT

That Martyr thing isn''''t working for you....you can''''t appear above it all while still playing the same tune as those you accuse.

Posted by FloydZepp at 11:37 AM : Mar 25, 2008
-------------
As you get older you''ll mellow out. Those young hormones make you crazy with control urges.

I feel you''re a good person at heart.

Reply to this comment

by pfd572 March 25, 2008 11:41 AM PDT

floydzapp: bush, mccain, clinton, obama are being bashed for their politics, etc. Not for their physical appearance. That is childish. And if you want to exchange digs with other posters, go right ahead. They can answer you directly. What difference is there in my expressing my disgust with certain behavior and your expressing your views? Guilty conscience? And, for the record, Cindy McCain is running for office, her husband is.

Reply to this comment

by underdogus March 25, 2008 11:41 AM PDT

when the wheels fall off, we will track down all terrorist supporters!!!

Reply to this comment

by pfd572 March 25, 2008 11:43 AM PDT

should have been: Cindy McCain NOT running....

Reply to this comment

by pfd572 March 25, 2008 11:44 AM PDT

How are you defining ''terrorist supporters''?

Reply to this comment

by Latrocinor March 25, 2008 11:45 AM PDT

Overview

According to Sigmund Freud, projection is a psychological defense mechanism whereby one "projects" one''s own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else. It is a common process that every person uses to some degree.[3]
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." [5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

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[zootallures2]

Check out the: Week In Iraq Photos

Well...um... The US tanks have a nice paint job...?

[mcvet]

It appears that this Cleric, who is the real power in Iraq, my not continue his cease fire, in which case I believe the Civil War will start up yet again. All this trash by the Bush Administration about Al Queda in Iraq and the rest of it is just more Bush Lies. This Cleric IS a Major Player in Iraq and he''s been keeping a low profile while the Paid Sunni''s have been killing Radical Sunni''s. Sieg Heil Bush.

[skyk-2009]

It appears that this Cleric, who is the real power in Iraq, my not continue his cease fire, in which case I believe the Civil War will start up yet again. All this trash by the Bush Administration about Al Queda in Iraq and the rest of it is just more Bush Lies. This Cleric IS a Major Player in Iraq and he''''s been keeping a low profile while the Paid Sunni''''s have been killing Radical Sunni''''s. Sieg Heil Bush.


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Posted by MCVet at 06:59 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

I believe you are right on this Sarge but what is so concerning is that the Republican Canidate for President wouldn''t have understood a word you posted. He doesn''t know who the players are and isn''t going to figure that out in the near future it appears.

[tulcak]

REPEAT AFTER ME: THE SURGE IS WORKING... THE SURGE IS WORKING...

[afmca]

Once al-Sadr calls off his cease fire all of America will be exposed to the lie that the surge is working. American troops will NEVER bring either stability of peace to Iraq - Iraqis will fight a brutal civil war and another in a long line of dictators will take Saddam''s place. This time it will probably by Shiite aligned with Iran; instead of Sunni, but the end result will be the same or worse. All America will have to show for Bush''s stupidity is 4,000+ dead, thousands more wounded, military corporations rich, and domestic needs unfunded. The Bush legacy.

[ajaxtheleast]

"powerful" Madhi army? Compared to what?
So far Sadr has been smart. He hasn''t fallen
for the bait. Bush wants him out in the
open as an army. Sadr remembers the thrashing
his army received against the US. His cease
fire isn''t from the goodness of his heart.

If Bush wants the Medhi army out, Sadr should
not end the cease fire.

I''d like to see whatever of the Mahdi army
that is fighting in Basra give the Iraqi
army all that they can handel.

Also, can Maliki''s heart really
be in this?

[prinzowhales]

Since Afghanistan does not exist in the CBS matrix today...here is a link to an article from Reuters regarding the Afgahn freedom fighters destroying tankers carrying fuel to the NATO occupation forces... and, it was a really big fire, apparently.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=8282

...thirty-six tankers at the Pak-Afghan border...

[prinzowhales]

Betrayus has finally confirmed that the "surge" was not a "surge" but a simple reinforcement.

The Iraqi Regime has upped the ante and begun to attack the Sadr people...apparently, they have no desire to to maintain the truce. The US, which calls everyone they want to a "terrorist" will have no problem declaring any Sadrist they want to a "renegade" to justify action against them.

"Conducting suspicious activity" merits the death penalty in Iraq today....Like that "suspicious" family that lost 15 members when the US rocketed their home in Baquba..."Why, oh why do they hate us?"

[venkata4--2008]

"Since Afghanistan ..here is a link to an article from Reuters regarding really big fire, .. www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=8282
...thirty-six tankers at the Pak-Afghan border.by Prinzowhales at 09:10 AM : Mar 25, 2008"

Persons with military back ground were good presidents in the future. They know what does it means being in the battle field. This Prez. & VP never served all they could see is 20% world oil reserves and a weak dictator with bag full of sins and problems.

When Mr. Powell and others suggested a strong 300,000 to 500,000 troops for peace keeping no body bothered. A surge able to keep a better peace atleast for some time. Imagine following Mr. Powell''s suggestion. Under UN many nations were ready to commit their troops. Now it is a big mess and no body wants to touch. And in Afghanistan Taliban is becoming powerful and there no oil or natural gas reserves it is last in the list. NATO was asked to increase troops. Like Halliburton''s KBR no body is getting any no bid contracts in EU so why would they commit ?
Very sad that troops are paying the ultimate price. Due to tax cuts to richest and war is run with internal barrowing record 3 trillions our grand children have those debts. Remember we are told war is going to cost 50 billions and 2nd year onwards with Iraqi oil exports war can be run, and 685 billions and counting where is Iraq and it''s money ? This Prez., VP cannot see beyond big oil & defense suppliers bottom lines.

[venkata4--2008]

"Persons with military back ground were good presidents in the future.
Posted by venkata4 at 09:37 AM : Mar 25, 2008"

Sorry I meant in the past.

[singingrick]

Ultimately, all Sadr has to do is withdraw into the shadows and fight a Gorilla war. With the backing of Iran, he can be far more menacing than Sunni insurgents have been so far.

This boondoggle will end with the U.S. bankrupted and thousands of lives wasted for nothing. You cannot win a gorilla war in Iraq or anywhere else when the will of their people is against you.

[stn_sage]

What? More evidence we''re winning the war?!

Just like the German propaganda machine kept telling the German public, up to the time the Russians started their assault on Berlin, that Germany was winning the war---so to, will the Bush administration be making the same claim after handing this war off to the next president to deal with!

And ofcourse, it''s a war that will have to be won by the Iraqis themselves!

[prinzowhales]

venkata4--I''ve read, but haven''t bothered to confirm, that Afghanistan has huge untapped energy reserves.

Using "other people''s money" is the way to great wealth, and as long as the people are paying in blood and treasure for the maintenance of the narco-Regime in Kabul, the Opium interests don''t seem to have much of a downside and lots of profit.

The pipeline route that Big Oil wanted through Afghanistan is also on the table...We are paying for Big Oil''s failure to strike a deal with the Taliban over transit rights and payments.

There is also a geopolitical consideration that seems rather specious to me.

[prinzowhales]

stn-sage--Actually, the Germans were more accurate than the British up until Stalingrad.

[mcvet]

Remember we are told war is going to cost 50 billions and 2nd year onwards with Iraqi oil exports war can be run, and 685 billions and counting where is Iraq and it''''s money ? This Prez., VP cannot see beyond big oil & defense suppliers bottom lines.


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Posted by venkata4 at 09:37 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

Military background is no promise of a great leader. Bush HAD all the training and Darth was linked to the Military for years... they have both been complete failures. TRUTH and UNITY is the key to this nation winning anything. This fight was lost the day after 9/11 when the Republican Base came out and started using the attack for political purposes. It continued non stop through the 2004 elections. The Number of troops isn''t as important as the PEOPLE behind those troops being united and understanding the mission. That leads to the biggest failure here.. the 935 lies told to start this war. That no Leader, military or not can overcome. An American Mom has a hard time parting with her son but when someone LIES to her about that reason?? Well that''s just something you are not going to get away with. Sieg Heil Bush

[prinzowhales]

venkata4--I always think of USS Grant when I think of bad presidents...On the other hand, I think of Andrew Jackson and George Washington when I think of great ones...

[Latrocinor]

Ultimately, all Sadr has to do is withdraw into the ..shadows and fight a Gorilla war... not win a gorilla war

Posted by singingrick

-------------------------
------
--
Noun 1. guerilla - a member of an irregular armed force that fights a stronger force by sabotage and harassment
guerrilla, irregular, insurgent
guerilla force, guerrilla force - an irregular armed force that fights by sabotage and harassment; often rural and organized in large groups
Maquis, Maquisard - a guerrilla fighter in the French underground in World War II
urban guerrilla - a guerrilla who fights only in cities and towns

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Gorilla - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gorillas, the largest of the living primates, are ground-dwelling omnivores that inhabit the forests of Africa.

[stn_sage]

stn-sage--Actually, the Germans were more accurate than the British up until Stalingrad.
Posted by Prinzowhales at 10:04 AM : Mar 25, 2008

My response: I don''t follow your post. What are you referring to, ...more accurate than the British, what are you saying, what do you mean? In terms of what?
Please elaborate.

[joyous88]

mission accomplished

the surge is working

we are all safe from the orange alerts now

[prinzowhales]

This year, we have three nothings running for office...a lousy pilot and security risk and two ambitious attorneys who have to lie to boost their curriculum vitae while keeping their shady dealings suppressed.

Even Truman had a career as a Senator...He came within an inch of getting a Bush indicted under the "Trading with the Enemy Act" and got one of the Queen''s horsey set, who headed Standard of New Jersey, dismissed in disgrace for their actions of behalf of the Nazis. Neither Obama nor Clinton have distinguished themselves in that ignoble body.

[notblue]

Floydcreep, di you bother to read the article? IRAQI FORCES are now battling the thugs! You know, your brothers, Al Sadres militants. Regardless, the Iraqis are doing the fighting not Americans, that is TRUE progress.

[prinzowhales]

stn-sage--...more accurate in terms of the news regarding the war.

[notblue]

McVet, do you have anything to offer other than the same move.on propoghanda for the weak minded sheep, we have all heard those talking points every day for every article. Why not try something RELEVANT to the article for a change if your capable.

[notblue]

Floydzepp,I guess the miltant thugs just aren''t ready to give up yet, it is difficult for brainwashed terrorists to just quit. You are a classic example of that. Unlike you and most Leftwing Americans who were ready to surrender to this evil months ago, calling this campaign in Iraq against the radicals a failure, these militants have the will to fight freedom knowing their days are numbered. you people need to read all articles pertaining to Iraq, the enemy is losing and progress is being made on EVERY front. You people will look like fools when the Iraqis take full control oftheir destiny thanks to the U.S.

[joyous88]

if the surge is working

than why does this, look, sound, and smell,

like the civil war bush keeps denying?

you know, bush denys global climate change (look up ice age in the dictionary if you doubt climate change)
and bush denys evolution

I wonder what else the nut does not believe in?

Oh yea! a solid economy

[Latrocinor]

FloydZepp n. - 1. Term used to describe child in adult body/name calling immature adult. 2. Plays poorly with other people. 3. See also, Bush obsession/derangement syndrome, adult child, loner, loser, social misfit, scapegoat artist, egocentric, narcissism, mind reader.

[iceman_1960]

Has Joe Lieberman told John McCain what public statement to make about this yet ?

McCain has got to stop making propaganda statements for his captors. It"s a bad habit he picked up in North Vietnam.

[stn_sage]

Prinzowhales - Okay! I see what you''re saying, while your post is not directly related to my post, I agree with your point. Things didn''t go well for the U.K. in the early years, and their press didn''t always report the full extent of the problems! Whereas, the Germans were winning and it was much easier for their press to report this. I agree.

[ramos937]

Does anyone in the McCain camp have the guts to tell McCain how ridiculous he appears when he says that Iraq is now more peaceful and that great strides have been made in Iraq to secure it? Yet this week''s events directly contradict him. McCain deserves better than this from his staff.

[Latrocinor]

bhoog, did you Shrub Sucklers throw a party when No. 4000 died?

Mission Accomplished!
The Insurgents are in their last Throes!
Freedom''''s on the March!

The Surge is Working!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by FloydZepp at 10:47 AM : Mar 25, 2008

---------------------
--------

FloydZepp , you may want to get professional help.

I voted for Kerry

I was against this war.

[Latrocinor]

I think you need to re-evaluate who you judge just by listening to a program....
Posted by jh6379 at 11:05 AM : Mar 25, 2008

---------------
-
''''''

Zepp is just swinging at everyone. Seems to have the same discrimination as a wacko mall shooter.

[ewnnrj]

Okay, you good ''journalists'' and Bush backers, repeat after me: "the surge is working, the surge is working..." Ooops, guess not. The Surge coincided with Sadr''s truce, which probably an attempt on his part to manipulate the ''08 elections in the US; but on the 5th anniversary of the conquest, Sadr''s people obviously decided on their own they''d had enough - now there''s democracy for you! Well, how about another Surge? I suggest we surge all our soldiers out of Iraq NOW!

[mcvet]

No bush vote here.
I''''m a pinko, socialist, bed-wetting lib and *** proud of it!

Anything is better than a neocon scumbag.


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Posted by jh6379 at 10:52 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

You Nazi''s have been repeating this tired old line since your fuhrer was McCarthy... Has it ever occured to you that maybe you should change the line. Maybe put a memo in to you Nazi Youth Commander?? Sieg Heil Bush

[mcvet]

Ze
pp is just swinging at everyone. Seems to have the same discrimination as a wacko mall shooter.


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Posted by bhoogren at 11:12 AM : Mar 25, 2008
+ report abuse

Doesn''t sound that way to me... maybe you need to get off you knees and stop licking those boots. The world may have a different view from the standing position... And for GOD''s Sake take off the swastika''s... they look silly! Sieg Heil Bush

[joyous88]

check out the british comedy called

''absolutely fabulous'' you will see a tall blond that

is the spitting image of McBushCain''s wife

[pfd572]

This is now a civil war, no matter how dub tries to spin it. There will be fighting between factions until one is able to overpower and repress the weaker. Sound familiar? Isn''t that what was happening before we invaded? It hasn''t ended because we are there. Does dub and the other self-seeking, self-centered, sociopathic, avaricious, brain injured, right-wing butchers plan on sacrificing American troops until no one is left? These are religious fanatics who see rapture in dying for their beliefs. Armed troops will not change their minds or their commitment to their beliefs that Sunnis think Shiite Muslims are heretics and vice versa. Iraqi troops are made up of the same groups that are fighting each other, so how long before there is a total breakdown. Let them fight their own civil war. BRING OUR TROOPS HOME.

[Latrocinor]

...and get over YOUR hypocrisy as well. I''''ve read your posts in the past too....

Posted by FloydZepp at 11:22 AM : Mar 25, 2008
-------------
----
Get help, such a smart mind to sound like you do.

[pfd572]

And let''s all try and be adults. Attacking Cindy McCain for the way she looks (or anyone else) is about as childish as grade schoolers making fun of the overweight kids or the kids with glasses. It completely erases any credibility you may have about relevant issues.

[Latrocinor]

Try again with your Martyr Approach. That didn''''t sound sincere as you insulted me with sugar.....

Posted by FloydZepp at 11:32 AM : Mar 25, 2008

------------------
--------
Sad, very sad. Just swinging wildly away.

[geecee827]

Ah, what a surprise! Problems popping up in Basra. Gee, I thought the surge WAS working. Oh, well, after 5 years, (longer than it took us to defeat the Germans AND the Japanese!!) we are still there and making very little progress. Of course, a half trillion dollars spent should make some difference, but I would like to see exactly what and where the progress has been made. The Iraqi government, such as it is, would love to have us stay there and keep pouring our "unlimited" resources (troops and dollars) into Iraq for the next 50 years. I think I am just resigned to having our troops stay there indefinitely and sending the U.S.A. bankrupt (morally and fiscally) in the process. Such a pleasant thought. Thank you, Bush/Cheney for the past 8 years of HELL. Your plan to control the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world hasn''t worked has it, or we wouldn''t be paying $3.29 a gallon for gasoline. Have we learned our lesson yet??

[underdogus]

I would challenge you to accept the one true god. Most holy Allah. posted by FloydZepp march 23,2008

[pfd572]

With what I posted about the civil war, there is a need to end widespread genocide. But, that being said, it has to be a UN operation, not just the United States. Other countries need to make it clear that genocide will not be ignored or condoned for oil or other financial benefits. I just wish we knew how to do it right.

It''s the same old stuff, give the surge time! it looks like it''s working. It''s like a scratched record that keeps skipping and drives you nut''s. Get a new record and surge out of Iraq "NOW"....

[underdogus]

Floyd Zepp the numb.1 terrorist supporter...

[Latrocinor]

That Martyr thing isn''''t working for you....you can''''t appear above it all while still playing the same tune as those you accuse.

Posted by FloydZepp at 11:37 AM : Mar 25, 2008
-------------
As you get older you''ll mellow out. Those young hormones make you crazy with control urges.

I feel you''re a good person at heart.

[pfd572]

floydzapp: bush, mccain, clinton, obama are being bashed for their politics, etc. Not for their physical appearance. That is childish. And if you want to exchange digs with other posters, go right ahead. They can answer you directly. What difference is there in my expressing my disgust with certain behavior and your expressing your views? Guilty conscience? And, for the record, Cindy McCain is running for office, her husband is.

[underdogus]

when the wheels fall off, we will track down all terrorist supporters!!!

[pfd572]

should have been: Cindy McCain NOT running....

[pfd572]

How are you defining ''terrorist supporters''?

[Latrocinor]

Overview

According to Sigmund Freud, projection is a psychological defense mechanism whereby one "projects" one''s own undesirable thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings onto someone else. It is a common process that every person uses to some degree.[3]
"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." [5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection