Judge Okays School Ban On Female Teachers

Female Professor's Lawsuit Dismissed Based On School's 1st Amendment Religious Rights

(AP)  Leaders of a prominent Southern Baptist seminary who believe women are biblically forbidden from teaching men were within their rights when they told a female professor to leave, a federal judge has ruled.

Sheri Klouda, now a professor at Taylor University in Upland, Ind., was the only female professor teaching at the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary's School of Theology when officials decided not to renew her contract in 2006. Klouda claimed seminary officials breached an oral contract guaranteeing she would remain employed if her performance was favorable.

Seminary officials maintain Klouda was not dismissed but was told she would not be granted tenure. They said their actions were based on ecclesiastical decisions protected under the First Amendment's religion clauses. U.S. District Judge John McBryde agreed, dismissing Klouda's claims Wednesday.

"I'm disappointed by the outcome but ... it wasn't totally unexpected," Klouda said from her home in Indiana. "Generally speaking, federal courts try to avoid becoming entangled in matters dealing with religious institutions."

Klouda, who departed the seminary in Fort Worth after six years of teaching there, said she's considering appealing the decision.

Seminary President Paige Patterson issued a statement saying he is thankful for the decision.

"My response is simply one of gratitude to God and to a host of people," he said. "Americans everywhere may still rejoice in freedom of faith and the ordering of their churches and institutions accordingly."

Ten women are among the seminary's full-time faculty of 116. Only one works in the theology division and she teaches only women's classes, spokesman Thomas White said.

Klouda's departure was one example of the division between conservative and moderate factions within the Southern Baptist Convention. The case has prompted discussions about the role of women in the nation's largest Protestant denomination, which has more than 16 million members.

According to the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message, the denomination's most recent statement of beliefs, both men and women can serve the church but the office of pastor is limited to men. The statement is based on a verse in 1st Timothy in which the Apostle Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man."

After he was elected seminary president, Patterson told officials he believed all those teaching future ministers at the school of theology should be qualified to serve as pastors themselves. Klouda alleged in court documents Patterson told her she was a mistake the trustees needed to fix.

Klouda points out she taught Hebrew and Aramaic at the seminary.

"The biggest contradiction is that Dr. Patterson and Southwestern and ... all of us agree that I am not a minister or pastor," Klouda said.

[cbsblogger]

*** do we now allow some Baptists to operate as Taliban?

[retiredusaf3]

LOL I guess Hillary is doomed.

[shanev137]

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE RELIGIOUS FANATICS AND THE TALIBAN?


---------


Our religious fanatics have running water in their homes and smell better....that''s about it.

[blondchic]

I feel sorry for the children of these radicals. They will be taught to believe that women are lower life forms and born to serve men and breed more children. I can%u2019t believe in this day and age a woman can still be discriminated against like this. It%u2019s no wonder that Hillary can%u2019t get ahead with this kind of primitive stinking thinking. These people don%u2019t belong in America.

[shanev137]

It%u2019s no wonder that Hillary can%u2019t get ahead with this kind of primitive stinking thinking.

---------


Hillary can''t get ahead...because she''s Hillary Clinton. She has no experience leading or running anything, she''s a coat-tail rider, and full of self interest.

Has nothing to do with the fact she''s a woman.

[ringading3]

Early Christian Church had female deacons, but they talked too much and sermons lasted forever. Then they were always fussing with their hair and got into cat fights. And that is way most legitimate Christians do not have female preachers.

[cyberus-2009]

Sorry but IMHO if they hired her in the first place the 1st Amendment arguement went out the window

[cantshutup]

the apostle paul was stupid and the bible is just an old book...she''s better off not being there and someday all those old jerks will be dead...

[grammawhamma]

Wow. Just gotta love that good old organized religion. NOT!
Jesus must be weeping at the bigotry and hate organized religions are doing in his name.

------
God "BLESS" America

[milesbrown49]

It would seem that if God gave woman the breast the feeds and nurtures her sons, then he marked her with the job of teaching and nurturing. I think this whole Southern Baptist thing was though up by bootleggers consumed of their own products. If they believed that she should not teach, then why did they hire her?? More bootleg maybe???

[billpl-2009]

I have to agree with the judge on this one.

Not only is Religion protected by the first amendment, but so is ignorance and stupidity.

[watchin5]

It seems that with the new light that was focused on Obama''s pastor we may be seeing what lay hidden before in the guise of Christianity is instead bigotry and hatred for women, blacks, whites ...you name it these radical beleifs in what is suppose to be Christian churches. Instead they have been breeding grounds for race,gender and religious hatred. How can these supposedly "Christian" Churches think they are speaking for what God and Jesus taught. Jesus taught Love, caring, forgiveness and equality for all. He had a women as one of his closest Apostles in Mary Magdalin. It was a women at the well who recognized and accepted Jesus as Christ the Son of God. A woman who was the 1st to see Him after he rose from the dead. He had no hatred in His heart and it was a man, one of his own disiples who betrayed him. In His day woman were consided property but His repeatedly held them in High esteem. Trying to teach us that all people are Children of God all are equal in His sight. Those who have been teaching such hatred should be stripped of thier positions as leaders of Christian Churches for they do not reflect the true teachings of Christ.

[irliberal]

Once again, the bigotry of religion rears its ugly head.

[simpleguy234]

This all sums it up: If a woman voluntarily goes to a job where women have always been inferiors, and then complain that they are treated like an inferior, well they are just plain an idiot for going to that job in the first place....dont file a lawsuit you idiot...it was your fault for doing it in the first place...waste of my tax dollars.....

[gmond]

Men never listen to women anyway so what''s the big deal?

[farmerbb]

You have GOT to be kidding. She cannot teach men because she is a woman ? (Sighs). What IS it about the Abrahamic religious nuts who think women are not as good as men ? Taliban, Muslims, Baptists, Mormons, Catholics, every one of them has something in their dogma that disparages women ! When will the world be RID of these people ? This planet needs to cough up this furball, and soon. I can just imagine the press this will receive around the world. What would be nice would be to hear that some/many/most of the male teachers resigned in protest.

[nikkicatt1]

Let me get this straight: She taught there for 6 years and now the men have decided that it is against the Bible? These are probable the same men that forgave Jimmy Swaggart and the rest of the MEN that broke every covenant they could while still preaching the gospel. Watch out Baptists!!! When women taake over (and we are) we will start a chruch named for Christ''s wife Mary Magdeline. Her book was left out of the bible because Christ considered her an equal. Constantine and his ilk put the bible together to keep women and minorities in their place. "Absolute power begats absolute corruption."

[brianbwb-2009]

"(AP) Leaders of a prominent Southern Baptist seminary who believe women are biblically forbidden from teaching men were within their rights when they told a female professor to leave, a federal judge has ruled."

And they have the nerve to criticize and cheer the murders of hard line conservative radical Islam followers.

[skyk-2009]

This all sums it up: If a woman voluntarily goes to a job where women have always been inferiors, and then complain that they are treated like an inferior, well they are just plain an idiot for going to that job in the first place....dont file a lawsuit you idiot...it was your fault for doing it in the first place...waste of my tax dollars.....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by simpleguy234 at 04:04 AM : Mar 22, 2008
+ report abuse

LOL Man talk about a backward thinking! I THOUGHT we decided as a NATION a long time ago that people were to be considered for employment based on their ability to do the job, not their *** or race. Well that''s what the rules were BEFORE Bush and the Religious Right. Most American''s don''t know those laws have been trashed by the Republican''s while their backs were turned. Yep American all the Equal Employment Laws we fought so hard to get into law? They don''t exist for these Religious Extremist.

[cfin5]

Sounds like the Seminary is doing some self house cleaning. And they are correct according to 1 Timothy 2:9-15 which describes a believing womans role in the church. Sin caused a change up of why Eve was made for Adam. It wasn''t the original plan God wanted for them, but they didn''t listen. By the Lord setting the new order of operations in the family, it seems to me that he did it to disparage the amount of deception that the serpent (Lucifer) was able to beguile Eve with for the remainder of our generations. It is indeed a stalwart against him and his trade. Adam was not the one who was deceived, but sinned along with his wife. I see the wisdom of it best when the husband acts like the required code of conduct in that chapter of the Bible as well as the next.

[nikkicatt1]

Posted by cfin5 at 07:21 AM
Please read your history books. Constantinople and his cronies put the bible together. They only included books that made MEN superior. Mary Magdeline''s book was left out because she quoted Jesus saying women are equal. God created all PEOPLE equal. It was MAN that said we are not.

[cfin5]

nikkicat1,.....I do consider the Bible a history book older than Constantinople,....or Damascus for that matter. I see men and women equal with different job titles. I have no desire to boss my wife around for example. She''s my best friend! A father and mothers job in the family are alike and work best when seen that way. I take care of my family with "the sweat of my brow" and then she takes that reward and nurtures our family through childbearing chores.

[cfin5]

Sitting here thinking about how Adam and Eve blew it. Adam had a garden planted by God himself to live in. And the good part is a God-made girl-female-woman,...NAKED 24/7! I think Adam was a sinless Hippy. Maybe he really called Eve,....WHOAMAN!!! Yeah, he blew it bigtime alright.

[brianbwb-2009]

Posted by cfin5

If the first five chapters of the Bible were written by Moses, as is the prevailing opinion, Moses mentions Damascus as the city to which Cain traveled after he was cursed by "God" for the murder of his brother.

How then is a book older than the first city mentioned in it?

[cricketmk3]

cfin5, You''re fortunate that you are living in a situation that is perfect for you. However, all family situations cannot be like yours. I am a single mother (not by choice) and I don''t have the luxury of taking someone''s "reward" and "nurturing my family through childbearing chores" (whatever all that means) because I have to work outside of my home as well as inside of it. You have your opinion of how a family best operates but even your picture perfect family situation could change at any time. The Lord could call you home and your wife''s "job title" could change in an instant...and vice versa...but a perfectly fine family situation will still remain.

[cfin5]

Posted by brianbwb at 08:12 AM : Mar 22, 2008-----The historical facts that were written in the book are what I''m concerned about. Don''t you think that Moses could have wrote down things he read from earlier texts?

[belwin-2009]

The Apostle Paul said: "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man"?

So much for the institution of marriage.

[sleepyric]

Huckabee sort of gave me a clue,,,but now this,,,Now I know Baptists are idiots!~

[hungry1968]

Imagine that?

Civil rights / equal rights taking a backseat to religion - AGAIN!! Or should I say still?

[nativewoman]

Interesting belief held by the church.

Even though this is a religious school, not everyone attending will work in the ministry. Some will most surely have jobs out in the real world.

Out in the real world, women are working alongside men or supervising men and teaching them how to perform their job duties.

Do they have the right to demand that women not teach them their job duties? Do they have the right to sue employers demanding that women not teach men in the workplace because their religion forbids it?

Interesting concept, eh?

Since when does anyone have the right to foist their religious belief on others? That hardly sounds like freedom of religion to me.

[hungry1968]

How then is a book older than the first city mentioned in it?

Posted by brianbwb at 08:12 AM : Mar 22, 2008




If you want contradictions in the bible, go here:

http://skeptically.org/bible/id6.html

[kesac4650]

It''s a private school, they can do pretty much as they please.

[freedomist7]

I don''t see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch about this. Do I agree that she should have been denied tenure? No, obviously if she is proficient at her task of teaching the languages she was, then I see no reason to remove her from the books. However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

I feel for those of us who have forgotten or turned their backs on God. It is they who wish the government strip us all of our freedom, and they who wish us to be like the many nations we have fought to destroy.

I also pray that the congregations of Jesus Christ will re-read much of the Bible, particularly what Jesus Himself said about how we should conduct ourselves as children of God, because it seems that we have all missed the point of Christ''s Sacrifice.

Please everyone, try to drop the animosity for each other. America is supposed to be the light of the world and yet, when I look around, all I see is darkness.

[hungry1968]

The historical facts that were written in the book are what I''''m concerned about. Don''''t you think that Moses could have wrote down things he read from earlier texts?

Posted by cfin5 at 08:41 AM : Mar 22, 2008





Maybe someone should have asked Moses how god created light on the first day, but didn''t create the sun, the moon, and the planets until the fourth day.

If the sun wasn''t created until the fourth day, where did the light come from?

And if the planets weren''t created until the fourth day, where did the earth come from?

[freedomist7]

I don''t see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch about this. Do I agree that she should have been denied tenure? No, obviously if she is proficient at her task of teaching the languages she was, then I see no reason to remove her from the books. However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

I feel for those of us who have forgotten or turned their backs on God. It is they who wish the government strip us all of our freedom, and they who wish us to be like the many nations we have fought to destroy.

I also pray that the congregations of Jesus Christ will re-read much of the Bible, particularly what Jesus Himself said about how we should conduct ourselves as children of God, because it seems that we have all missed the point of Christ''s Sacrifice.

Please everyone, try to drop the animosity for each other. America is supposed to be the light of the world and yet, when I look around, all I see is darkness.

[freedomist7]

I don''t see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch about this. Do I agree that she should have been denied tenure? No, obviously if she is proficient at her task of teaching the languages she was, then I see no reason to remove her from the books. However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

I feel for those of us who have forgotten or turned their backs on God. It is they who wish the government strip us all of our freedom, and they who wish us to be like the many nations we have fought to destroy.

I also pray that the congregations of Jesus Christ will re-read much of the Bible, particularly what Jesus Himself said about how we should conduct ourselves as children of God, because it seems that we have all missed the point of Christ''s Sacrifice.

Please everyone, try to drop the animosity for each other. America is supposed to be the light of the world and yet, when I look around, all I see is darkness.

[freedomist7]

I don''t see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch about this. Do I agree that she should have been denied tenure? No, obviously if she is proficient at her task of teaching the languages she was, then I see no reason to remove her from the books. However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

I feel for those of us who have forgotten or turned their backs on God. It is they who wish the government strip us all of our freedom, and they who wish us to be like the many nations we have fought to destroy.

I also pray that the congregations of Jesus Christ will re-read much of the Bible, particularly what Jesus Himself said about how we should conduct ourselves as children of God, because it seems that we have all missed the point of Christ''s Sacrifice.

Please everyone, try to drop the animosity for each other. America is supposed to be the light of the world and yet, when I look around, all I see is darkness.

[freedomist7]

I don''t see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch about this. Do I agree that she should have been denied tenure? No, obviously if she is proficient at her task of teaching the languages she was, then I see no reason to remove her from the books. However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

I feel for those of us who have forgotten or turned their backs on God. It is they who wish the government strip us all of our freedom, and they who wish us to be like the many nations we have fought to destroy.

I also pray that the congregations of Jesus Christ will re-read much of the Bible, particularly what Jesus Himself said about how we should conduct ourselves as children of God, because it seems that we have all missed the point of Christ''s Sacrifice.

Please everyone, try to drop the animosity for each other. America is supposed to be the light of the world and yet, when I look around, all I see is darkness.

[freedomist7]

I don''t see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch about this. Do I agree that she should have been denied tenure? No, obviously if she is proficient at her task of teaching the languages she was, then I see no reason to remove her from the books. However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

I feel for those of us who have forgotten or turned their backs on God. It is they who wish the government strip us all of our freedom, and they who wish us to be like the many nations we have fought to destroy.

I also pray that the congregations of Jesus Christ will re-read much of the Bible, particularly what Jesus Himself said about how we should conduct ourselves as children of God, because it seems that we have all missed the point of Christ''s Sacrifice.

Please everyone, try to drop the animosity for each other. America is supposed to be the light of the world and yet, when I look around, all I see is darkness.

[freedomist7]

I don''t see why everyone has their underwear in a bunch about this. Do I agree that she should have been denied tenure? No, obviously if she is proficient at her task of teaching the languages she was, then I see no reason to remove her from the books. However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

I feel for those of us who have forgotten or turned their backs on God. It is they who wish the government strip us all of our freedom, and they who wish us to be like the many nations we have fought to destroy.

I also pray that the congregations of Jesus Christ will re-read much of the Bible, particularly what Jesus Himself said about how we should conduct ourselves as children of God, because it seems that we have all missed the point of Christ''s Sacrifice.

Please everyone, try to drop the animosity for each other. America is supposed to be the light of the world and yet, when I look around, all I see is darkness.

[cfin5]

Posted by cricketmk3 at 08:36 AM : Mar 22, 2008-----I understand perfectly what you mean. My folks were divorced when I was young. I still think of "what might have been" thoughts to this day. I use the bad things that happened to my family as a constant lesson to NOT do those things for the success of my responsibilities now. I hope very much that things improve for you in this my friend.

[cfin5]

Posted by hungry1968 at 08:53 AM : Mar 22, 2008-----Good question. I know that I read somewhere in the Bible that God says that he is light. And there is no darkness in him.

[downsteamjim]

They are in Indiana, why don''t they call themselves northern Baptists? This may be a ''blessing'' for the lady prof. Maybe she''ll go teach in a real university.

[excoachken]

Once again bigoted Bible bangers prove that religion is the basis for most of the hate and death in the world.

[cricketmk3]

As far as the female professor not receiving tenure at the Theology School because a bunch of men don''t believe women should teach their kind...I think it''s a crock. Why was she hired in the first place? A bunch of holier-than-thou men didn''t want her to have tenure so they came up with this lame excuse. She should appeal and win!

[hungry1968]

However to infringe on the faith of anyone, anyone at all, especially when there is written precedent for the move the institution made, is a travesty against the freedoms granted us by GOD. Everyone wants to scream about the discrimination factor, but I can say that if I were her, I would have chosen another institution from the get-go. She is obviously free to do that.

Everyone must remember that we get our freedom from the fact that we are human, creations of God (as mentioned in our Constitution), not because the government of the United States of America says we are free.

Posted by Freedomist7 at 08:52 AM : Mar 22, 2008





First and foremost, "god" does not exist - he is a myth-illogical creation created by incestuous, cattle sacrificing, drunk, primitives.

Secondly, NO WHERE in the US Constitution, is "god" mentioned - not even once.

Third, "god" doesn''t grant freedom or liberty - The US constitution does. "God" decrees that you live under his rules and authority, and NO WHERE in the bible does he "give" you freedoms or liberties to do as you please.

Fourth, there is no "written precedent" as you claim - at least it isn''t mentioned in this article.

Fifth, she was hired BEFORE the president that tried to fire her. If she was good enough to be hired in the first place, then why wasn''t she good enough to be kept on? Did she do something related to job performance, or is this just discrimination?

[formrusmcsgt]

Once again bigoted Bible bangers prove that religion is the basis for most of the hate and death in the world.

Posted by exCoachKen at 09:07 AM : Mar 22, 2008

Amen....lol.

[formrusmcsgt]

First and foremost, "god" does not exist - he is a myth-illogical creation created by incestuous, cattle sacrificing, drunk, primitives.

Posted by hungry1968 at 09:11 AM : Mar 22, 2008

I''ll have to disagree with you here, hungry.

Modern dogma was invented by very savy individuals.

"Primitive" man believed in various Gods - for rain, of the sea, of love, etc.

There was no room for manipulation of the masses in ancient dogmas.

Modern dogmas were invented with a promise of eternity as a means of extracting wealth and power from the masses.

[closethippy1]

OK. That''s it. I don''t want to hear another word, another letter, coming out of the mouth of Islam bashers about how deficient Muslims are and all that BS.
This people keep talking as if Muslims don''t have disagreements and are supposed to be some kind of monolithic monster.
But as you can see EVERYONE in the world have disagreements.
Besides, even without the case of this good female college professor 25% of US women who end up in Emergency Rooms end up there due to injuries inflicted on them by their male relatives or companions.
So, again, not a word from J Freaks, OK?

[elkc]

Based on a verse in 1st Timothy in which the Apostle Paul says, "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over a man."

This could very well be mistaken for a line used by Archie Bunker. For all we know the Apostle Paul, was smoking weed when he said this. The idea man and woman are to strive for is to make each generation better than the one before. This requires us to move on, progress as a society, and evolve from the ancient to the new. If and when there are no *** left from these murdering preaches, women will be returned to their place from the writings in a book, that were collected during an era when men wore toga''s and would sit in the sun, fasting until they received a divine image or message. You ought to try it sometimes it beats drugs, you don''t break the law, you loose weight and have a really wild trip.