SCRANTON, Pa., March 17, 2008
Obama To Army Vet: No Lower Drinking Age
At MTV Forum, Democrat Says He Sympathizes But Would Keep Drinking Age At 21
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Democratic presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., center, looks at a show of hands for those diagnosed with Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) while participating in an MTV roundtable with Iraq war veterans, Monday, March 17, 2008, at Whistles Pub in Scranton, Pa. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)
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"I know it drives you nuts. But I'm not going to lower the drinking age," the presidential candidate said.
Army veteran Ernest Johnson, 23, of Connecticut, said one of the things that peeved him before he turned 21 was that he couldn't come home and drink a beer - even though he was old enough to serve in the armed services and die for his country.
Obama told Johnson he sympathized, but that setting the legal drinking age at 21 had helped reduce drunken driving incidents and should remain.
The Illinois senator was taping a round-table discussion with eight veterans that is to be broadcast by MTV on the fifth anniversary of the start of the Iraq war.
Howard Noel, 28, of New York City, told Obama he "looked at the military as a good thing" when he enlisted. But when he returned, he said he was scorned by friends and, for a while, was homeless.
"The problem has not been our military - the problem has been our civilian leadership," Obama said. "There's no way you should end up homeless." He said he would, if elected, put into force a program that would guarantee at least transitional housing for homeless veterans.
Seven of the eight veterans raised their hands when Obama asked who had suffered emotional or mental problems as a result of their service.
Christina Correa, 23, of California, said she believed she might have post-traumatic stress disorder, but that it was especially hard for women to find treatment. "They took my name down, but I never heard back," she said.
"The notion that you wouldn't have services available to you is inexcusable," Obama said. He said the military should start the process of treating soldiers suspected of post-traumatic stress disorder "before you are discharged."
The segment, sponsored by MTV and The Associated Press, was taped in the back room of "Whistles," a sports bar where a full blown St. Patrick's Day celebration was under way.
Before the taping, Obama circulated among the celebrants at the bar, shaking hands and getting his picture taken - in a pale blue tie.
Asked why he wasn't wearing anything green, Obama said, "This is embarrassing." He said since his hometown of Chicago held a big St. Patrick's Day celebration two days ago, "I sort of lost track" of the actual date.
But he said he would rectify the oversight before speaking later to a St. Patrick's Day dinner sponsored by the Irish Women's Society by wearing a green necktie. "I confiscated one from one of my staffers," he said.
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See all 75 Commentsthere old enough to make fools out of themselves
when the first gulf war started I seved any kid
going over there with militry ID. and they did not
pay for a dam thing in my bar
This Idiot wants to be President???,.....He should know something about Serving in Combat before he issues such Asssinine edicts......loser...
Posted by veteran71
As a VietNam vet-- I couldn''t possibly agree more.
This loser is trying too hard to be cool.
Even if it was true, which I doubt, the fact that these kids might lose their lives, or kill others in drunk driving accidents meant nothing to you, right?
Some respect.
And thus are at least partly responsible for rapes, drunken rages that killed innocent non combatants, and impaired ability during combat situations, due to hangovers, or residual drunkenness.
You aren''t in the service to get high, son.
AND YOU DON''T HAVE TO LIKE IT.
I doubt you ever served. Drinking in combat was reserved for when you were not goig on a mission. Yes a lot of troops used drugs also but not in my squad. They were all volunteers, professionals and volunteers. I was never much of a drinker but i didn''t fault my guys for tying one on when not scheduled for a mission. I never had any problems from them.
My guys never killed anyone they didn''t have too. Meanwhile you armchair supporters sit back in the comforts of your homes, have a drink whenever you want and criticize what you know nothing about.
Gee Brian what outfit were you in ? I was never issued a car when going on a mission. We walked in or were dropped by choppers.Wish i could have been in the luxury unit you were in.
You sound like a veteran and a patriot. Someone has to show our servicemembers we do care about them.
You go thru what these servicemembers are going thru and then come tell us how you feel.
If you can fight for this country--you get the rights other citizens have and enjoy-- like having a beer without som idiot who never served in the armed forces deciding you are not old enough to drink!
ITS A LACK OF EXPERIENCE.
Lack of experience at what ? Drinking or being a soldier ?
I spent three years stationed in England. I only heard of one rape case that whole time by an American soldier in Germany and he was prosecuted fully for the crime.
Members of the military i know do not join gangs, race motorcycles or break the law as a rule. They nare fine upstanding men and women dedicated to doing a very tough job. They are professionals and as a whole they act as professionals and bring nothing but pride on being an American. I don''t know what makes you think our military has such low standards to allow someone to be a member who would do these things.
Are you saying it is ok o be a drunk if your a civilian ? I wouldn''t agree with that. Did you serve in combat ? I know what a combat soldier goes thru and was never offered any help after coming back until 6 years later. I did the readjustment on my own.
"I spent three years stationed in England. I only heard of one rape case that whole time by an American soldier in Germany and he was prosecuted fully for the crime."
Posted by ranger1948
I don''t doubt that one bit, in England, but the Japanese and the Phillipinos have a great deal more exposure than the Brits to "American Macho-Man" idiots who can''t keep their zippers up.
Remember the acronyms L.B.F.M., and L.Y.F.M., the pet name given to dehumanized SE Asian women and girls (and too often little boys) by the US military? Or the word "poontang"? Of course you do, any one who ever did westpac knows those letters.
It seems that after centuries of additional knowledge, the concept of "war" for many is still an excuse to rape, pillage, and plunder, and alcohol certainly does not help improve such thinking. I say if the military can ban pot, they should also ban alcohol, regardless of age.
If you can fight for this country--you get the rights other citizens have and enjoy-- like having a beer without som idiot who never served in the armed forces deciding you are not old enough to drink!
ITS A LACK OF EXPERIENCE.
Posted by goldesprit at 02:38 AM : Mar 18, 2008
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WRONG- the age limit was not by Obama, and i think we do have a fully funtional govt and lawmakers statewise
and on the federal level
Any law that is seen to be harming the interests or well being of the Americans is debated and changed
I still think the idea behind America is fighting for freedom of choice. Your saying you should be a civilian to drink and military should be banned from drinking. That isn''t a democracy. I hear about the rape case in asia and those that are guilty should be prosecuted. Another side of the story is sometimes the girl yells rape to save face with her famly or if she thinks she hasn''t been paid enough. A lot of these alledged rape cases get dropped when the facts come out. If a member of the military or a civilian commits a crime they should be punished equally under the law.
You keep saying it is a lack of experience, what are you referring to as a lack of experience ?
Posted by dumbshun
What would you say if the answer to that was "around the same age as you"?
I think obama was a loser to start with, the truth is finally coming out for all to see.
That again would depend on what the age was.
My soldiers went to bars and drank betqween missions. When you are in a situation where you never know will be your last day alive it is a way of relieving stress. None of my soldiers were ever wimps. They never did anything to dishonor their uniform or their country. They were true soldiers.
I have talked to some of these fine green soldiers at Ft Sam Houston hospital after they were wounded. Never once did i hear them complain, except for those who wanted to be back with their unit and couldn''t be returned or couldn''t get there fast enough. I talked to the green soldiers in my daughters outfit before they shipped out for Iraq. I have never met a finer bunch of green soldiers anywhere anytime. I am proud to have met each and everyone of them.
Posted by ranger1948
No dispute there, I would say however that if the soldiers wouldn''t let themselves be put into that position in the first place, we''d have a lot less enmity towards our forces. Alcohol does loosen lips, pockets, and zippers, if the soldiers weren''t where they should not be, doing what they should not be doing, the opportunity for them to be framed wouldn''t exist.
Also you haven''t considered the large number of unreported or ignored acts, unreported and or ignored because local politicians and village heads receive money from the bases, so they will protect their income by silencing even their own people, who often have legitimate and horrific complaints.
Olongapo, the former US base in the Phillipines was notorious as the place where women, girls, and boys were sold into the "trade" like cattle, to service the US base. Any money earned was turned over to the pimp, who shared with the police, who shared with the politicians, the victims often received no money for their abuse.
The primary act of warfare is the taking of lives, it is not a party to be celebrated, it is the intentional decision to harm human beings, for whatever reason. Anyone placed in the situation to have to make such decisions should only make them while stone cold sober.
My daughter enlisted at 18 and it was a blessing for her. She really turned her life around and even her commander says she is one of the very best soldiers she has in her unit. I don''t like her being in Iraq but i coiuldn''t be more proud of her. She has seen combat, but says she hasn''t had to kill anyone yet. I am not sure she is telling me the truth. She doesn''t want to worry her mother or me. She volunteered to go to Iraq so she could stay with her unit.
I''m sure you have a mighty fine daughter. I wouldn''t want to see my 18 year-old kid, hundreds of miles away from home, drinking like there''s no tomorrow.
Hooha!
Also a current fact of life, whether anyone likes it or not, is that women are now serving their country in combat roles, and the number of harassment cases (30% of women say they have been harassed, even if they hadn''t reported it, and 7% of males also say it) suggests that many males, and even some females, have difficulties controlling their urges. Alcohol certainly doesn''t help, and is probably the catalyst behind many such incidents.
Again, war is not a game, contrary to the name given it by armchair senior officers who don''t have to be on the front lines. It is not a party, and its gravity should not be diminished by participants under the influence. If the "enemy" is drunk, or hung over, better for us, but we should not risk lives for the sake of partying.
So you wer stationed in the Philipines with the navy. Well the military is gone from there but the corruption is alive and thriving as always. I now live in Thailand and what bothers me is the American who come here with the attotude i am better than you because i am an American, and they are mostly civilians here. Imet all my neighbors when i mocved here and i always smile and speak to them when i pass them on the streets. I have made many friends here. The Thai people are some of the most polite and friendliest people in the world. I think we could learn a lot from them. I try to improve the American image here. I respect their customs, i always smile and say hello when i pass someone on the street. I am also learing to speak Thai. I think if your going to liv in another country you should learn the language.
MY DAUGHTER DRINKS WHEN SHE IS ON LEAVE BUT NOT TO AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT, NOT WHILE SHE IS IN IRAQ BECAUSE WAR DOES NOT HAVE SET TIMES. THEY ARE ON ALERT 24/7.
My daughter was harrassed once by someone who outranked her because he didn''t feel women should be in combat. He made the statement he hoped she got pregnant while on leave so she wouldn''t come back. My daughters commander happens to be a woman and she dealt with the situation very quickly. My daughter carries her weight and asks for no special treatment.
God bless our troops!! And God "BLESS" America.
Agreed 100%, also if you are going to war, knowing the language and customs of the people in whose land you are fighting is also important. I also agree that American civilians are some of the most belligerent, arrogant, rude, racist, and ignorant visitors to these parts, with Brits and Aussies tied for second place, and the French third, but I have seen, read, and heard enough incidents involving US servicemen to bring me to the conclusion that no armed American should ever be drunk in this part of the world, they are bad enough as tourists.
But to make a correction, I have not served, but I have family and friends, as well as business associates who have. I have been living since 1985, in Indonesia, and Singapore, doing business from Ulaan Bator, in Mongolia to Bali, and most places in between, I speak several of the languages here, and have lived with many cultures, not just hotels but in rented apartments, "on the street" as it were, with the locals.
I''m happy to hear that your daughter is such a responsible person. However, I''m sure she is an exception, rather than the norm. Now let''s get back on topic. I come from a country where the legal age of drinking and military draft are both 18. We were young and silly, had money, and nothing else better to spend it on. I can tell you most of us have drunk ourselves silly back then. Often just before reporting for duty. Having an 18 year-old fight a war for you is bad enough. But an 18 year-old kid with no self-control running around Iraq with a rifle and a hangover?
By the way, I think your capslock key was stuck.
That means that you raised her right, but let''s face it, she shouldn''t have to "deal with" such abuse. She is already carrying more than her weight serving in the present mess, and all the more reason that the soldiers and officers should be sober, so they cannot blame alcohol for their own weaknesses. Her senior officer should be processed for harassment, and booted out, the present state of "war" is no excuse for such.
She might have been well able to "deal with" the scum, but the next victim of this pathetic excuse for human might not be as strong.
By the way, I think your capslock key was stuck.
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Posted by jasonwlh at 05:05 AM : Mar 18, 2008
+ report abuse
I agree! It''s bad enough that they are glorified policemen in this horrible situation where they haven''t a clue who or what the enemy may be but adding the effects of Alcohol to that mix is a really bad idea.
I think this is about the legal drinking age, for anyone. Not an ''I''ll join the army so I can start drinking earlier'' issue. The last thing you want is to give them recruiters another carrot to lure kids into fighting wars. Uncle Sam wants you to start drinking beer!
Over the weekend, you repeatedly asked FeelFreek1 if he had served in the military.
Of course he hasn''t.
He''s a Moslem Arab, who''s being paid by a terorist group to pose as a patriotic American on this Comment board.
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